$2000 burning a hole
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Hi all - New to this site... We want a king mattress and have about 2k to spend. We were looking at the Simmons nxg 250 firm, but now I hear they're going out of bus, they get impressions, etc. Don't want to be stuck with a 2k stinker. We like firm with a little mem foam type give and like the non-disturb nautre of the beautyrest... Any rec's? We thought about sleep #, but the middle turned us off. We want a solid plane, no dips please! looking at the simmons black as well - stronger coils? thanks! |
Re: $2000 burning a hole
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Hi and welcome. This site has a tremendous amount of information in it, IMO a real find when mattress shopping. Long story short, it isn't usually the coils that are the problem with the longevity of the bed, it is the #@*# cheap polyrurethane foam that they inevitably put in them that does not stand the test of time. Seems like the only way to get a bed that has a reasonable lifespan, with good quality foam on the innersprings of your choice, is to have one made or do mattress surgery on one you already own. That being said, foam does indent over time. Latex probably the least, memory foam is in a category of its own but does wear out too. They feel quite different, latex has a lot of rebound(sproing) and you simply sink into memory foam. The first thing to do is to determine exactly what kind of springs you prefer. They do feel different. Bonnell is good, I like an offset coil, there are pocket coils which feel different too. Box springs can have springs(rare)or can be hollow boxes. Sometimes beds are just layered or a chunk of foam. Then you determine what kind of foam feels good to you. Also very personal. The difficulty in finding a good ready-made bed these days is that they sell the feel in the store and you often cannot figure out what is inside the bed. Then it wears out reasonably quickly and you are stuck. Read the posts and start doing your homework, It will give you such an advantage shopping! If you can find a bedmaker near you, check out what they have to say. You'll often find that they use higher quality components and will be there for you if you have issues later. BTW, the typical issues with a King mattress is that people sleep both sides of it and not the center so it doesn't wear in as much. Also the springs underneath are always a set of twins, so the support in the very middle is firmer, so it feels different. Good luck! Kait |
Re: $2000 burning a hole
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What Kait said!... The problem with almost ALL S brand beds is that they have cheap foam in them - too much of it at that - that breaks down quickly and leaves you with a sore back. The other problem is that you will find, if you start asking the store sales people "What kind of foam is in it?" they will either say they don't know or they'll just say "polyurethane". Neither answer is good because unless it is HR foam (a higher quality polyurethane, which to my knowledge, none of them use) or M-grade or latex (again, to my knowledge, no one uses these), then it is just plain old cheap, crappy, non-supportive polyurethane foam that breaks down VERY quickly. This is an incredible indictment of an industry that is - in my humble opinion - building their whole business model on being UN-user friendly, hiding the composition of the materials used in their mattresses, and doing their best to confuse the consumer by naming their mattresses a different name in almost every store, even though often it's the exact same mattress or just has a minor change. Don't take my word for it. I admit I am anti-S-Brand mattresses. Do your own research here and elsewhere and you'll realize I am telling the truth. That is why on this forum you will find mostly anti-S brand (Simmons, Sealy, S&F, Spring Air, etc.) consumers who have either switched to latex (most of the members here), switched to Tempurpedic (a few members), or switched to mattress surgery to take apart their S-brand bed and replace the foam inside with quality latex or HR foam etc. (a few members - including myself). Companies who make latex mattresses are very up-front about what is inside their mattresses. There is no confusion, no obfuscation, no hiding or pretending they don't know, which is why companies talked about on here - like flobeds.com or sleepez or others - are preferred. However, people like me and some others have found that latex alone (without a spring base) is not the answer FOR US, so we - having been foiled by any attempt to find an S-brand with good foam inside, or to find any affordable spring mattress with good foam inside - have taken matters into our own hands and performed mattress surgery on an S-brand bed. For example, I intentionally bought a low-end Englander mattress that has good strong springs inside (for around $200 for the twin, it would be $300-400 for a king), and immediately tore it apart and replaced the 3" of cheap polyurethane foam with HR foam and latex and Venus or Sensus memory foam (quality foams). You can read about mattress surgery here: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/mattress-surgery-performing-foam-ectomy-my-englander-mattress-w-photos/6161-A-1.html So as you can see, the sad fact of the matter is, even if you spend $2k on a "high end" mattress at a mattress store, you will end up with 3"-6" of polyurethane foam in your mattress that will break down in too short of a time period - maybe within weeks, even! Look around at reviews of mattresses here and on the net in general and you will find many consumers who spent over $1500 for a mattress only to have it be very uncomfortable almost immediately. So take this with a grain of salt, but not too big of one. I am anti-mattress-companies for good reason. They make crappy products and try to hide the crappy materials inside them by pretending they don't know, or not being willing to discuss it. They will tell you they just can't afford to put HR foam (a true 10-year rated foam) in their mattresses because it would "cost too much". One mattress rep on here told me something like, if they put HR foam instead of polyurethane inside, then they'd have to charge $400 extra for the bed, even though the foam only costs like $40 more. Go figure... Personally I think they just don't want to change because they are still getting away with selling crap to uneducated consumers. Good luck with your mattress search. Read around the site and learn a little about mattresses, then ask more specific questions. You may also benefit from this thread: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/experts-answer-question-what-mattress-should-i-buy/6097-0-1.html This message was modified Nov 22, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: $2000 burning a hole
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Thank you Jim and Kait for the two excellent posts... In fact these are two are the best back to back posts explaining the current mattress industry and how to find 'what is the best mattress' that I have seen on this forum in a long time. I like that you give real alternatives to people and that they don't necessarily have to cost big money. It seems that all I have seen on here for many month is - all Flobeds - all the time; and although they might be a fine retailer, they're just not the only solution. I know that it is not necessary to spend $3000 to get a decent latex mattress. Its been nearly a year since I bought my king sized latex mattress from FBM for just a hair under a $1000 and it is working out well. I'm going to try and find some time over the holiday to do a review. |
Re: $2000 burning a hole
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BillB wrote: Thank you Jim and Kait for the two excellent posts... In fact these are two are the best back to back posts explaining the current mattress industry and how to find 'what is the best mattress' that I have seen on this forum in a long time. I like that you give real alternatives to people and that they don't necessarily have to cost big money. It seems that all I have seen on here for many month is - all Flobeds - all the time; and although they might be a fine retailer, they're just not the only solution. I know that it is not necessary to spend $3000 to get a decent latex mattress. Its been nearly a year since I bought my king sized latex mattress from FBM for just a hair under a $1000 and it is working out well. I'm going to try and find some time over the holiday to do a review. Thanks for the kudos, BillB. I absolutely am a believer in being able to get quality sleep for a low amount of money, but it's easier IF one does not have back pain to begin with (i.e; back pain NOT CAUSED by a mattress). I look forward to your review of your mattress. I'll say this: I think that for those who can sleep on pure foam without springs, you can go even CHEAPER: You can find a source for HR foam or M-Grade foam and buy that alone and sleep on it. I know of a foam distributor (ie; foam supplier to furniture and mattress companies) and so I was able to buy a piece of 4" firm HR foam core for around $60-100 or so for a Twin (sorry, I forget the prices; it's been a while). Then I could buy a few 1" layers of various ILD's of HR foam for another $15-25 each and end up with a 10-year rated foam mattress for $100-150 that was actually very good quality and I think most people could get very good sleep on it if they didn't have pre-existing back problems. There are foam sources on the net that sell HR foam much cheaper than latex, maybe not as cheap as the distributor prices I got, but a lot cheaper than latex. Another low budget alternative is the pure M-grade core at overnightmattress.com (the pure 8" core with no memory foam attached). Then add a quality 1" topper or two of quality latex and/or Sensus or Venus foam, and that should also work fine for most people and for a very low price. However, when you get into people with sleep issues - fibromyalgia, tweaked backs, bad necks, etc. - then it can be very helpful to either have a flobeds type sleep system where you can change out the layers/sections to various ild's, OR build your own from HR foam etc., as above and cut the foam into 3 equal sections so you can change out the ILD's for the shoulder and mid-sections. I think the reason why Flobeds gets so much attention is that they provide a great sleep guarantee and a maximum of options for adjusting one's bed, and all done in a way that doesn't seem like a "Do-It-Yourself" type mattress, and with quality latex. But if you are like me and some others and NEED springs for your back, flobeds won't work for you. So in that case, you can take your old mattress or buy a cheap one and do the surgery as I have done. |