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I've been lurking for a few months now gathering information, and decided to sign up to get some final advice. My wife (5'4", 105#, back sleeper) and I (6'2", 240#, side sleeper) purchased a Simmons (cal-king, pillowtop) 'Exquisite Ultimate Plush' in October 2001, and it's been on it's last legs for a few years now Initially I was going to buy a whole new set, and then I stumbled across this site and all of my plans went up in smoke! My new plan is to perform surgery on the Simmons (I've alread made a 12" incision to examine the internals), and place a mix of latex and memory foam on top. If the Simmons coils are completely shot (they're almost 10 years old), I will buy a Sealy Alanson from Costco (mattress only, $520), and excise any foam from that model. So, from my research I think I have determined we would like a 2" layer of 32 ILD latex over the coils, followed by the 2.5" Novoform Gel topper from Costco (which we already own), and topped off with 1" of 19 ILD latex. I've read several posts regarding Foam By Mail's quality control issues, but most of those threads appear to be a few years old. How are things currently? Are they delivering proper sized and correct weight/ILD items? I understand some of their pieces 'look' a bit rough, but if it's just cosmetic I'm ok with that. (If FBM is still having some issues I'm thinking of ordering just the 2" 32 ILD base from FBM, and then ordering the 1" 19 ILD from a more reputable (and expensive) company, like Sleep Like a Bear, SleepEZ, etc.) For the record, my wife and I visited a SoCal Custom Comfort showroom last weekend -- the Tradere smooth-top model with a separate 2" latex topper was amazing! So was the price!! But, I don't remember ever lying on a showroom bed and immediately thinking it was the best mattress I've ever been on. And, it really sold me on the idea of latex over coils. Thanks for reading, and looking forward to any input on suppliers or ILD mixes. Joe B.
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DoreenA wrote: I'm sure we'll all enjoy reading the results of your mattress surgery. I just have a question for the knowledgeable people here:
Is it a good idea to put a latex topper on top of memory foam? Should the configuration be all one kind or the other? sandman wrote: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/gel-memory-foam-topper-costco/14182-A-1.html Right now my top 3" are 1" of 19ILD blended latex, 1" of 5.3 lb.(actually 5.9) memory foam from foamonline, 1" of 24 ILD 100% natural latex. This goes over 2" of 32 ILD 100% natural latex over Sealy coils. I also have 1" inch of 5lb Sensus, but I have not been using that lately, I am fairly happy with this setup. I have been playing around lately with what to put on top. I have a 1" wool topper that I am not using right now. I have been using a simple cotton filled mattress pad + a washable wool filled Natura pad over that. Actually, from what I've seen on this board, mixing latex and memory foams doesn't seem to be too uncommon. In my case, I just want to try to find a use for my Novoform Gel topper -- if it doesn't work out, I won't be unhappy to see it go back to Costco! |
| I know Sandman does it but I tried putting 2" memory foam from Costco on top of latex and my back was hurting because it lacked support. I wouldn't try more than an inch and most put the memory foam on top. I'd rather avoid the memory foam all together but some may find it ok. |
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"I'd rather avoid the memory foam all together..." To be honest, that's the direction I'm leaning towards. I'm not too impressed by it, but I was thinking the latex could somehow improve its performance...
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I tried using the 2.5" Novaform gel and 2.5" 5lb Aerus. Both were too soft for me in combination with 3" of latex on top of the Sealy springs. So, I have been using just 1" of 5.9lb. memory foam and 4" of latex for quite a while. That works pretty well for me (a side sleeper). From bottom to top I have Sealy coils (pretty firm - high coil count), 2" of 32 natural talalay, 1" 24 natural talalay, 1" 5.9lb memory foam, 1" 19 blended talalay. I also cut out a section of the 32 latex under the shoulders and put in a softer piece there. Personally I like having 1" of memory foam in the mix, but more than that can make it too soft. However, some people don't seem to like having any memory foam at all. Generally I advise going in 1" increments for the top 3", so you can fine tune it. Also, it is good to buy from places you can return to, because you never know what will work until you actually try it. Also, how you stack the layers will make a difference. I probably tried at least 50 different variations until I arrived at something I have stuck with for quite a while. Good luck and post any results you have! |
| In building up my new too-firm bed into an oasis of comfort, I considered memory foam as it's relatively inexpensive and readily accessible, but what stopped me was reading too many complaints about the heat it generated. For me, that was a such deal breaker I wouldn't take the chance even trying it, but other people don't seem to have that problem, so it might work for you! |
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Thanks for the input everyone; and thanks, sandman, for providing your updated configuration. Last night, a couple of hours before bedtime, I performed the surgery. Used a utility knife around the top edge of the pillowtop (layers of eggcrate and batting, stitched together), leaving the rolled hem in place. I then placed the Novaform Gel topper on top of the ~1.5" of polyfoam (which is edge crimped to the coils), and then placed the old pillowtop on top of that! Crazy, huh? Anyway, I believe it did give me some insight into what I'm looking for. Last nights set up was nice and pillowy, but basically too soft for me. It definitely did not remind of the Custom Comfort Tradere (a very firm mattress) with the 2" 19 ILD latex topper. I'm wondering now if the individual pocketed coils in my Simmons mattress will make almost everything feel too soft. Do I need a 1" layer of some high-density/stiff foam directly on the coils, then 2" of 24" ILD latex, topped off with ~1" of 19 ILD latex? Or, maybe just a simple setup of 2" 32 ILD and 2" 19 ILD laid directly on the coils? I also continued researching the feedback on FBM quality control, and I'm concerned. I don't think I would buy the final top inch from them, but maybe the 2" of 24 ILD wouldn't too much of a crapshoot? This message was modified Aug 17, 2011 by Joe_Blowe
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Joe_Blowe wrote: Thanks for the input everyone; and thanks, sandman, for providing your updated configuration.
Last night, a couple of hours before bedtime, I performed the surgery. Used a utility knife around the top edge of the pillowtop (layers of eggcrate and batting, stitched together), leaving the rolled hem in place. I then placed the Novaform Gel topper on top of the ~1.5" of polyfoam (which is edge crimped to the coils), and then placed the old pillowtop on top of that! Crazy, huh? Anyway, I believe it did give me some insight into what I'm looking for. Last nights set up was nice and pillowy, but basically too soft for me. It definitely did not remind of the Custom Comfort Tradere (a very firm mattress) with the 2" 19 ILD latex topper. I'm wondering now if the individual pocketed coils in my Simmons mattress will make almost everything feel too soft. Do I need a 1" layer of some high-density/stiff foam directly on the coils, then 2" of 24" ILD latex, topped off with ~1" of 19 ILD latex? Or, maybe just a simple setup of 2" 32 ILD and 2" 19 ILD laid directly on the coils? I also continued researching the feedback on FBM quality control, and I'm concerned. I don't think I would buy the final top inch from them, but maybe the 2" of 24 ILD wouldn't too much of a crapshoot? The Simmons coils are almost certainly softer than the Sealy coils I am using. The Sealy coils are interlaced together, which increases the effective firmness. I have never worked with the individually pocketed coils like Simmon's has, and I would worry a bit that they would shift around. Not certain though. That 1.5" of foam might cause some problems as well. Does it come off, or does it help hold the coils in place? I have never tried the FBM latex, so I have not real opinion on that. At one point, it seems like the 20 ILD was effectively firmer than the rating would indicate. It is difficult figuring out what to buy. I think 24 is probablyy a little to soft for the base layer, but if the coils are providing a lot of the flex, it is possible it will work. One issue you will have is that what might work with the Simmons, might not be right for a different spring system. So, it would be good to nail down that down. How does it feel if you put the Gel topper on the polyfoam and leave off the old pillow top? I think I would try that and see if that is too firm or still too soft. |
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Regarding the foam-over-coils, it is fastened about every 8 or 10 inches, and looks like it would be very easy to rip away. Between the foam and coils is a single sheet of some Tyvek-looking material. Probably the same spun-poly material that encases the individual coils. That sheet is also fastened around the perimeter, and does not appear to be in danger of detachment. And now that you bring it up, trying to perfect a setup on the Simmons sounds like it'll be a waste of time and money if my plan is to eventually buy a new Serta from Costco. The Simmons is 10 years old, and the coils must certainly be shot -- maybe not on my wife's side, but definitely on mine! Or are they? Thanks for working through this with me. I think I'll go to one of the more reputable dealers and buy a 2" layer of 19 ILD latex. The Novaform gel will go back to Costco (I'm not wild about it anyway), and I'll try sleeping with the latex on the Simmons. Then I can mess around with configuring the latex and original foam layers and pillowtop for additional feedback, too. If that's not working out for me, I'll just order the Serta. That combo of 2" latex over the Serta coils will hopefully replicate the feeling of the Custom Comfort Tradere with 2" of 19 ILD. If not, I'll just fine tune it a bit more from there. |
Surgery continues!
As you can see from the pictures, the individual pocket coils are actually glued together. Everything appears to be tied together at the edges via a stapled perimeter wire. I cut into one of the pockets and measured the diameter of a coil; it's 2 mm, which I believe makes it 12 gauge. The surface of the springs appear to be somewhat level after 10 years -- the sag that was quite apparent when looking at the quilted top is simply not there! Maybe there's some life left in this old bed after all... Over the next couple of nights we'll be trying a new latex sheet, maybe in different combinations with the Novaform gel and the old polyfoam. For tonight it will be 2" of 28 ILD latex on top of one old sheet of polyfoam, and we'll see how we feel in the morning. |
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Joe_Blowe wrote:
Surgery continues!
As you can see from the pictures, the individual pocket coils are actually glued together. Everything appears to be tied together at the edges via a stapled perimeter wire. I cut into one of the pockets and measured the diameter of a coil; it's 2 mm, which I believe makes it 12 gauge. The surface of the springs appear to be somewhat level after 10 years -- the sag that was quite apparent when looking at the quilted top is simply not there! Maybe there's some life left in this old bed after all... Over the next couple of nights we'll be trying a new latex sheet, maybe in different combinations with the Novaform gel and the old polyfoam. For tonight it will be 2" of 28 ILD latex on top of one old sheet of polyfoam, and we'll see how we feel in the morning. I think your initial objective should be to try to find a combination that provides enough support and feels firm enough or possibly too firm. If you can do that, then the coils might be okay to work with. So, for example, try just the 2" 28 of latex right on top of the coils (ideally without even the polyfoam because that probably is shot), and hopefully that will provide more than enough firmness and support. If it is too firm, then starting adding until you get the right level of support and comfort (the poly foam or the Novaform). One problem might be that you don't have many pieces to work with. So, you might go from too firm (with just the 2" of 28) to too soft when you add the 2.5" Novaform. At which point you might want to buy 1-2" of 24 and/or 1" of 19ILD or 1" of memory foam. Most likely you will waste some money trying to get the right combo (I certainly did). SLAB is expensive, but at least you can return for some money and you pretty much no what you are getting. 1" or 2" from FBM might be worth a gamble, but probably not for the top inch or 2. p.s. I would add that whatver mattress pad you use will affect the feel, so you should do your testing with whatever mattress pad you expect to use. This message was modified Aug 19, 2011 by sandman
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