Mattress Forum

Forgive me if I'm hijacking your thread, but I need your help.

My wife and I inherited a Leggett and Platt Prodigy adjustable split-king bed and I want to buy a 4-layer SleepEZ Talalay blended split Cal-King mattress to go with the bed.

We sampled Talalay blended layers at a local retailer but decided to purchase from SleepEZ after learning the retailer's price was much higher (and they wouldn't budge on the price). 

I'm 5'9", 160 lbs. (slim), a back & side sleeper and sometimes wake with lower back pain (an issue I think is due to our current hybrid latex/foam Costco mattress). I prefer a medium mattress and dream of the perfect ILD mix that will provide the idea support for my height and weight. I was ok with 3" ILD layers of 40, 36, 32 and 28, but I could go with a tad softer top layer.

My wife is 5'8", 188 lbs., a back & side sleeper and has no back/sleep issues.  She prefers a medium-soft mattress, but doesn't want to sink into it. She was ok with 3" ILD layers of 36, 32, 32, 28, but she could go with a tad softer top layer.  

@ JSK23:

Can you give an update on your SleepEZ mattress purchase?  Did it meet your expectations? Did you pick a specific ILD (44, 40, 38, 36, 32, etc.) or did you choose between the four listed on their site: Ex-Firm (44 ILD?), Firm (40 ILD?), Medium (30 ILD?) and Soft (20 ILD?)?

I plan on calling SleepEZ to learn if they supply Talalay blended latex in all the normal ILD ratings, but if you know the answer, please share.

@ GKDesigns:

Can you please answer the following questions?

1. Is it safe to use a 4-layered latex mattress on an adjustable bed?  I'm worried the latex will tear or wear faster than normal. 

2. A dealer stated I should place each layer in its own "sock cover" before placing them in the mattress cover.  Is this necessary (either with an adjustable bed or flat foundation)?

3. Based on my description above, what ILD ratings (per layer) would you suggest we start with (my side and my wife's side)?  Suppose SleepEZ only does the Ex-Firm, Firm, Medium and Soft as typed above? What would you suggest then?

4. We're not sure about the seam down the middle of the two mattresses.  We may ask SleepEZ to make a separate, single "cover" from the mattress fabric and lay it over both mattresses in an attempt to mask the seam. Have you heard of this? Do you think the extra layer on top might be bad for ventilation, etc.?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

1.  I have no experience with adjustable beds.  I folded a 3" Queen 40/44 ILD Talalay to double it up and it did tear/separate significantly at the fold under stress.  I repaired it with 3M FoamFast 74 spray adheasive.  Conclusion:  The firmer the Latex, the more likely it will burst apart under such folding stress.  An adjustable bed may not push it to such extremes, but sitting/moving on a significant bend may increase wear and tear.

2.  No individual layer cover is required for use with a flat foundation.  Might change the Latex behavior and/or introduce undesired slip.  Perhaps such slip covers would help manage layer-on-layer stress in an adjustable bed application, particulalry with severe adjustments, or maybe it would be counter productive by permitting the layers to separate and not behave as one.  Also, 12" of Latex may be too much for an adjustable application.

3.  At this point, I would recommend using the 36 and 40/44 to build the 6" core for support.  Then add the comfort layers... not too deep and not too soft or else it will sag.  With a 12" mattress and a 6" core, the top 6" cannot be all comfort without risking sink and sag.  Your current layers 40-36-32-28 are likely firm for you... the 28 feels soft to one hand but it's firm on the body/face and it reaches down to more firmness.  That 32 layer helps extend the core and avoid too much comfort depth.  But you are missing softness on top.

You might be ok pushing the 28 down and using 24 or less on top.  Using just 3" layers can present its own difficulty when trying to craft the comfort layers, not too soft, not too deep.

I hesitate to mess with your wife's core 36-32-32-28, although the core layers seem to trend less firm.  I'd be tempted to make it at least 36-36.  Her comfort layers probably present the same lack of softness as your formula due to the 28 on top.  Like your side, an adjustment on top is required, but I hesitate to guess what that should be.  If you make that adjustment in a 3" increment, her softer core layers below may become less supportive.

Given a 4-layer build, going xf-f-m-s seems reasonable, particularly xf on bottom and s on top.  But I hesitate to give unqualified advice.  I'm still discovering this subject.

4.  Seems to me that a split adjustable bed is destined to have two separate mattresses on it.  Else, one mattress and equal adjustments.  Given a CA King at 72x84", buying bedding could be more difficult if fully split, or just a more expensive nuisance at CA King size.

Consider whether or not you have inherited something worth keeping.  The 84" is not critical for your heights; the 72" is less generous than the 76" of a King; and if you do not use the adjustable function...  Being the devil's advocate here.

GK

1.  The bed movement and bends are not extreme so I think we'll be ok. Hopefully the 40 ILD base will be ok.

2.  Since SleepEZ doesn't offer socks and you don't detect a big concern, we'll go sockless. The Prodigy is rated to lift 600 lbs per side (in addition to the mattress weight) so, as long as the 4-layered mattress is able to bend correctly (I think it will), we should be fine.

3.  I appreciate your advise on the ILD ratings.  We'll start off with your base suggestions and 24 on the top layer.  We have 30 days to exchange any layer and I think starting off with 24 on top will be fine.

4. Our current mattress/bed/frame setup, as well as the bedding, is Cal King so we're stuck with it (especially the bed head/foot and side rails, which is an expensive Cal-King designer set).  The two Prodigy base units can be programmed to move in tandum or independant of each other, so we can purchase a single Cal-King mattress or two XL singles.  My wife likes to cuddle and doesn't want to feel the seam, so I'll cave in and go with a single mattress cover w/split cores inside.

Actually, we expect to use the adjustable bed daily.  We have a 60" Plasma in the bedroom that we watch and we read and use our laptops & tablets in bed.  We'll use the adjustable bed a lot!

Thanks again for your insight. We're about to pull the trigger!

Dawgneck.

Hi, GK.

Sorry for the long post, but there have been some updates I’d like to share and get your opinion on.  

We set up the LP Prodigy dual Cal King adjustable bed yesterday, paired them to move in tandem then placed our existing 12" Latex/PolyFoam combo mattress on top.  We learned the following:

1.  Thank God the Prodigy Cal King bed came in two pieces!  The units are heavy and were difficult to maneuver through our narrow hall and into our existing bed frame. A single adjustable Cal King bed would’ve been impossible to work with.  I’m glad LP split this size into two smaller pieces.

2.  The Prodigy works great!  The massage unit is strong, penetrates our 12" mattress easily and provides great vibration at the medium setting. We like the alarm but doubt we’ll use the iPad option, and we’re hesitant to wake each other with the snore option.  Over-all, the Prodigy is really nice!  

3. We like the Cal King 1-piece mattress and will stick with the tandem setup.  Tandem movement was easy to program. We were informed the system would only recognize ONE remote when set to move in tandem, thus making the second remote useless.  This IS NOT true.  Tandem movement can be controlled by BOTH remotes.  

4.  You stated a 12" mattress might be too thick for an adjustable bed and we agree. While the Prodigy easily lifts the 12" mattress and our weight, our 12" mattress doesn't conform to the adjustable bed well. This is likely due to the stiffer polyfoam in the mattress.  SleepEZ feels a 9" mattress is better for our weight (my wife is 5'8" and 188 lbs. and I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs.).  They also feel 4 layered mattresses are better for people over 300 lbs.

5. Lastly, my wife and I watched each other over the last few nights and confirmed we’re side sleepers. I will sleep on my back if I’m experiencing back issues, but I sleep on my side otherwise; and wake on my side in either case.

Based on the information you and SleepEZ provided, we've decided to buy a 9”, 3-layer LI Talalay blended SleepEZ 10000 mattress split down the middle to accommodate differing layers, instead of the four-layer SleepEZ 13000 model. It’s been a while since we tested the 9” configurations, and I’m no longer sure about our preferences.

When we last tested them, my wife preferred a 3” 36 ILD bottom core, a 3” 32 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD.  She believed she could even replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD. 

I preferred a 3” 40 ILD bottom core, a 3” 36 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD.  At the time I felt I could replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD but, as I stated above, it’s been a while since we tested those configurations and I’m no longer sure. 

SleepEZ said they don’t order 1.5” cores from LI. They sell 2” cores from Radium, their #1 Latex seller. They only buy 3” LI latex cores in these ranges: Soft from22 to 24 ILD, Medium from 30 to 33 ILD, Firm from 35 to 40 ILD and Extra Firm is 44 ILD.  When they order latex from LI, they simply order 20 softs, 20 mediums…etc.  They don’t order specific ILDs. They can hand pick latex to our range, but cannot promise specifics.

GK, all the information you provided previously was based on a 4-layer choice. Now that we’ve settled on a 3-layer mattress, what are your thoughts on the following?

1.     Based on SleepEZ’s core range described above, what should we go with on my wife’s side (again, she’s 5’8” and 188 lbs., a side sleeper who prefers a softer top layer) and my side (5’9”, 160 lbs., a side sleeper looking for the best match to help recurring lower back problems)?

2.     This morning, the SleepEZ rep suggested Firm, Med, Soft for me and Firm, Med, Med for my wife.  He believes this to be the case even though my wife likes her top softer than mine and our current mattress (rated plush) is too firm for her. We could be wrong about what’s best for her weight/mattress combo, but I’m sure my wife will balk at the idea her top layer is firmer than mine, especially after our initial testing. Do you agree she should go with med-med-firm? What is your rationale either way?

3.     Do you think our choice to go with a 9” mattress over the 12” is the best choice?

4.     Lastly, in light of the growing number of companies that only sell and/or suggest 100% natural Talalay latex (FoamSweetFoam, et al), and our recent discussion in the other thread, has any of this recent information changed your opinion that blended Talalay latex is better than 100% natural Talalay latex?

Thanks in advance for your reply!

GK

Bad News: SleepEZ advised us they only have LI blended Latex ILDs in 24, 32, 40 & 42 in Cal King on hand. We were told they get shipments once a month and that we'll likely have to wait a month before they get different ILDs.

This bummed us out as we were ready to purchase today.  

In other news, my wife and I spent some time in the bedroom, measuring our mattress and deciding what works best with our bedroom furniture.  I think a 12" mattress will look better but wifee thinks 9" will be better as this height will put the top of the mattress at the same height as our side tables. 

Sigh....

>>They also feel 4 layered mattresses are better for people over 300 lbs.

I've seen this recommendation around.  Point loads such as sitting or kneeling plunge deep into Latex, so a heavier person should consider a deeper mattress.

>>my wife is 5'8" and 188 lbs. and I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs., we’re side sleepers.
>>my wife preferred a 3” 36 ILD bottom core, a 3” 32 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD.  She believed she could even replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD.
>>I preferred a 3” 40 ILD bottom core, a 3” 36 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD.  At the time I felt I could replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD but...
>>SleepEZ:
>>2” cores from Radium;
>>3” cores from LI (Soft 22 to 24 ILD, Medium 30 to 33 ILD, Firm 35 to 40 ILD, Extra Firm 44 ILD);
>>LI blended in 24, 32, 40 & 42 ILD in Cal King on hand.

>>1.  Based on SleepEZ’s core range described above, what should we go with on my wife’s side (again, she’s 5’8” and 188 lbs., a side sleeper who prefers a softer top layer) and my side (5’9”, 160 lbs., a side sleeper looking for the best match to help recurring lower back problems)?

Briefly, height and weight support requirements are similar.  Her shape may prefer more cush for hip and shoulder plunge.  Your back would not want too much cush to interfere with the core support... but you are lighter.  Your requirements may vary slightly from being the same, specifically in the comfort layer(s).

I don't think I'm qualified to make a recommendation from here other than to suggest what I would do.  I'm troubled by the 3x3" and ILD stock restrictions.  My limited experience has shown me that a 3" top layer can be alright or all wrong.  So, if using 3" layers, my thinking is to build the mattress with 2 core layers (36-44) and 1 top layer... the right top layer trending toward firm.  And then finish it off with a ~1.5" plush layer under the mattress pad.  This formula:

>>4.  Lastly, in light of the growing number of companies that only sell and/or suggest 100% natural Talalay latex (FoamSweetFoam, et al), and our recent discussion in the other thread, has any of this recent information changed your opinion that blended Talalay latex is better than 100% natural Talalay latex?

I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but at this time, blended seems fine to me.  However, sourcing it may be a problem.  It would not hurt to ask for it... maybe they have it.

>>wifee thinks 9" will be better as this height will put the top of the mattress at the same height as our side tables.

At 6'-1", I find ~28" to be a good mattress height... 30" max... 31-32" was a little annoying.  In theory, the mattress height should be dictated by the platform, not the mattress, since the mattress build has more important criteria to satisfy.  I guess the adjustable bed does not include a height adjustment.

GK

You're the man!  Thank you very much for your detailed explanation!  Your posts were a tremendous help and I'm sure they’ll help others in the future. I can’t thank you enough for the help you provided!

As soon as I read your suggestion to use three 3" cores and a 1.5" 19 ILD on top, I knew this was the formula for us!  Of the companies we spoke to, only our local dealer offers 1.5” LI blended Latex cores.  They agreed to lower their price to something slightly higher than SleepEZ’s plus tax, so I’ll see them today or Thursday to finalize the purchase.

My wife still prefers Foamsweetfoam’s mattress cover.  They place the zipper on the side, a few inches below the top edge.  When fastened, the top cover overlaps the zipper and hides it.  It’s a nice touch, but Foamsweetfoam doesn't sell the cover separately. Additionally, their cores are not cut in half to provide individual comfort levels per side.  They charge an additional $100 per layer to cut the cores.  Even if I wanted to purchase their 100% natural Talalay mattress, this alone would turn me off.

BTW, our current 12” mattress is 30” from the floor.  Your configuration will reduce the height to 28.5”. My wife appreciates the reduced distance to her table and the floor!

We’re going with a 3-layer Latex International blended Talalay 3” split core mattress and will top it with 1.5” of ILD 19 (a complete Cal King size core – not split). Based on your recommendations and what I recall we liked, I’m leaning toward the following configuration(s):

My Side (160 lbs, 5’9” - My 2nd choice is in parenthesis)

1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)

3” 28 ILD Relief Core - (24 ILD)         

3” 36 ILD Base Core – (same)

3” 40 ILD Base Core – (same)

Wife Side (188 lbs, 5’8”- Her 2^nd choice is in parenthesis)

1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)

3” 28 ILD Relief Core - (24 ILD)         

3” 32 ILD Base Core – (36 ILD)

3” 36 ILD Base Core – (40 ILD)

I’m visiting the store tomorrow to test my configuration(s).  My wife won’t be able to test hers before we purchase.  

So, this is it – my last question:  Which of the above two configurations do you prefer first and second for my wife?

Thank you kindly, Sir! 

I spoke to my wife and she believes she'll prefer the 24 ILD under the 1.5" 19 ILD.  According to Latex International's figures, they consider 36 ILD an extra firm / base core.

She thinks 19/24/32/36 might be fine, but I worry 36 might be too soft for her weight/spine alignment, and I'm now leaning towards 40 at the bottom.

I also agree with your statement, "I also like the idea of making the bottom layer all one base core ILD... ".  This would basically give us matching sides.

Update:

Our local store just called - it appears they might want to keep the price the same regardless if we go with a 1.5" or 3" layer as the fourth top core. 

I'm meeting with the shop tomorrow to discuss this face to face.  If they won't reduce the price accordingly for the 1.5" vs 3" (appx $200 per my calculation), we might have to go with four 3" layers or squeeze a second 1.5" layer with a different ILD (14 or 24).

I'm not sure what's the best way to go.