Mattress Forum

Its doubtful that most cheap spring systems will provide better support than an all latex core, although I could see some personal preference being involved it is possible someone would like it better.  But as to what is best really depends on the spring system.

Question regarding your comment:

"Its doubtful that most cheap spring systems will provide better support than an all latex core, although I could see some personal preference being involved it is possible someone would like it better.  But as to what is best really depends on the spring system."

• what do you base that comment on that cheap spring system would probably not provide better support than all latex core? 
• how do you identify a cheap spring system vs. good? I've read on this forum around a 12.5 gauge is good, but thats about all I know about springs.
• is it possible to buy just a set of springs somewhere, then put latex toppers on top of it and wrap it all up in a mattress cover? would that work? would it be too squeaky or unstable?anyone try it?

European Sleepworks sells a pocket coil spring mattress with latex over it and mostly organic/natural materials (though not 100%).  They're in california but ship nationwide.  I'm thinking about this model myself.  These run around $1800 for a queen.  I've seen a couple others online also, can't remember from where.  One other advantage of this is it's lighter than latex.

Lots of people talk about cutting away an innerspring mattress but with all the fire retardant chemicals I wouldn't be comfortable with that.  At least check whether the manufacturer sprays chemicals or uses a fire retardant barrier cloth.  Many spray because I think it's cheaper.  I wouldn't cut up a mattress sprayed or dusted with chemicals.  The industry's big argument for why these chemicals are safe is you never come in contact with them while they're sealed up in the mattress.  When you're cutting it up and taking things apart the chemicals will go airborne in dust.

As for good coil vs not, google 'mattress coils' or similar if you really want to know.  It's pretty complicated and lots of debate over it.  Bonnell, offset, pcoketed, etc.  Guage, number of turns, number of coils, etc.  Guage varies, 12.5 isn't necessary better than anything else, it's just firmer b/c it's thicker.

we're going with all latex for now and if that doesnt work out then our next option will be to look into a regular innerspring + adding latex topperers. or an innerspring that is made with latex layers like sleepworks or a custom one from a local manufacturer.

hopefully the latex works as I'm really tired of thinking and reading about mattresses. this forum is a wonderful source of info but i have other things I need to focus on!! :)

You wrote:

"

• what do you base that comment on that cheap spring system would probably not provide better support than all latex core? 
• how do you identify a cheap spring system vs. good? I've read on this forum around a 12.5 gauge is good, but thats about all I know about springs.
• is it possible to buy just a set of springs somewhere, then put latex toppers on top of it and wrap it all up in a mattress cover? would that work? would it be too squeaky or unstable?anyone try it?"

I'd like to give my opinion on these questions.

Cheap spring systems are bonnels usually and tied together and they don't conform or countour to your body very well. 12.5 gauge is a firm gauge and 15 gauge is a light gauge. A too firm gauge wire will be too firm for some, a light gauge wire will be too soft for some. In either case, most of the mattresses now being made - at least in the mid-price range - are pocket coils. Pocket coils theoretically give you more support, conform to your body better and give less transfer of motion from side to side. However in the past pocket coils have had issues such as the springs migrating from the position they are meant to stay in, and so on. As to whether this problem has been solved in recent years I don't know. But I am looking into buying pocket coils because I do believe they are generally a better approach to springs. In my un-tested theoretical opinion, I am looking towards Stearns and Foster's "Intellicoil" pocket coils. Simmons pocket coils also look interesting though I have questions about how long a low gauge wire like Simmons will stay supportive. Maybe. Maybe not. There are other makers of pocket coils out there now, too and some are cheaper - might be good for a DIY mattress base.

An all latex core is probably going to last longer than springs and provide better support over time. HOWEVER, some people - like myself - have found that all-latex with nothing under it to provide some springiness does not feel good. Thus I have tried various layers of latex over various spring systems. I have used both Bonnell and Sealy spring systems and neither of them have worked out that well. Both were typical tied-together-with-wire or what they call "helicoil" design and in my opinion this is the worst type of spring system (and of course the cheapest).

Is it possible to buy just springs somewhere...? I have never found this anywhere or I would have done it. I have, however, bought cheap mattresses and then removed the cheap foam on top and replaced it with latex and/or memory foam in various combinations and experiments. Unfortunately, as stated above, these were helicoil systems and so do not provide the right kind of support and after much experimentation I found they did not work for me.

I am currently using latex over a bowed-wood frame and that is working pretty well but not as well as I'd like, still.

My next step is to try buying a quality pocket coil mattress such as a Stearns and Foster (admittedly the words "quality" associated with a Big S company mattress is somewhat dubious), and see if I can be comfortable on it "as is" and if not, I will be one of the first people around to take that mattress apart and fit it with my own latex layers. If someone would sell me just the mattress with coils and no foam on top so I could get it cheaper and build my own foam top on it, that would be ideal but I'm pretty sure Sealy/Stearns/Simmons etc will not sell just the springs. As Budgy mentioned to me before, MAYBE Leggett and Platt might sell me just the springs - they developed the pocket coil or at least popularized it (they call it the Marshall coil). But I am doubtful anyone will sell me just the pocket coils in an encased mattress without the "toppings".

We just received our SleepEz mattress today so if it works out, we'll stick with that and skip the springs. I do need to find a foundation as my next step though, right now its just on the floor.  But, if I find myself needing an innerspring, I'll be sure to check out the Stearns and Foster pocket coils you mention.

with you being in socal (as I am), I wonder if you've checked out Room and Board's mattresses and what you think of their mattresses in general and their "encased coils" specifically?

http://www.roomandboard.com/rnb/subcategory/list.do?catalog=room&category=rm_bedrooms&subcategory=mattress

On the downside, their selection is small and their main business is furniture not mattresses, but what they do offer looks pretty nice. I tried their latex mattress in the store once and it was comfortable. they also have an "encased coil" with what looks to be only latex on top that could work for you?

I wonder which manufacturer makes their beds? the website says "an independent manufacturer in business for over a 100 years..." it would be nice to know if that manufacturer were local to Los Angeles and if they sell to the public, in case I ever wanted to go directly to them to have a bed made...

So basically I'm just wondering, has anyone on this forum ever had any success in locating a local small manufacturer who would sell just the springs, and maybe even customize the springs? 

If not, it sure seems like there could be niche market out there for someone was willing to do that. I mean they're shipping full mattresses all over the country. Why not box springs? You'd think someone somewhere would be willing to sell those alone, locally and maybe even not locally. It seems like they could charge enough to make a profit and still keep it under the level of cost for the buyer of a mattress who ends up having to dissect it to get back to the basic springs.

Any reason this is not available or could not be available? Does it have to do with where the springs are actually manufactured and assembled into the mattress? Are there regulations involved or something?

Just curious. I mean we see all kinds of companies selling all kinds of latex layers ala carte. Why not springs?

Any ideas? Any one know if any one does this? Or why not if no one does this? 

Hey, that company looks pretty intriguing. My only concern - well one of them anyway - is that the encasement looks so thick that in a twin you'd have very little sleep surface. I also question how long 14.5 gauge coils will last. That is a very thin wire. However, for a $500 Twin pocket coil mattress, I might be willing to try it at some point! The latex version is way too expensive. You'd be better off to buy the Twin Firm and put your own latex in it. Maybe even sew it back up...

Looks like their only SoCal store is in Santa Ana. Thanks for this info!

I am thinking one of the small companies might be willing to sell someone a box with pocket coils and encasement and no toppings... or maybe custom make a mattress with, say, pocket coils and 3" of latex and wool on top... Why not? All they do is add the toppings in and sew it up (I assume). So if you brought your own latex why couldn't they sew them in for you instead of their usual pu foam?