Mattress Forum

Thanks, Doreen; I appreciate that. I'm feeling rather Princess-and-the-Pea-ish, too, now. And I also used my previous mattress for 18 years.

I've got the convoluted foam off the bottom of the mattress; the mattress back in its case, with a board under the hip area (between the springs & case -- although I think I left the dacron in there); the Novabond fiber mat & dacron off the top of the mattress; an old thin mattress pad spread out over the springs; and the latex & sheets back on the bed.

And I'm whupped. Wrestling with this mattress has been a challenge. And getting the spring structure out of the case turned out to be much easier than putting it back in. (Not surprising, I guess.)

I still don't know how to tell if the springs are good. I don't see any huge dips, but that might not mean anything. Anyone got any hints on that?

The coil count turns out to be 522 (18 across, 29 down) -- so much for the 660 I was told when I bought it. Someone got mixed up. Could have been me, of course, but I'm pretty obsessive & careful about my research -- shocking, I know -- and I took notes in the store. (If I remember correctly, the store's website did not list specs at the time. I do know that their site was completely redesigned sometime after I bought my mattress.)

According to Leggett & Platt, the Lura-Flex coil count options (PDF) for full-size mattresses are 522, 580, and 660. Hmmm....

Glad you finally found something that works for you. I'm afraid I might have cut this mattress up for nothing. The best lesson here might be: If you plan to do mattress surgery someday, do *not* get a double-sided mattress.

I'm not feeling optimistic about this -- my spine still doesn't look straight when I lie on the mattress (with or without latex on it) -- but we'll see how things go.

I'm wondering if I'm expecting too much from the coils. Should the Lura-flex offset coils be flexible and conforming enough to keep my spine aligned, or is that not a realistic expectation for someone with an hourglass figure? Does anyone know?

Going to go fall into bed now (what's left of it)....

(Fixed only by restoring the context of "certain the mattress itself is not the problem" in the quote, since I was implying the opposite)

For edge support I put multiple vertical strips of polyethylene foam around the springs, replacing only the walls of that foam box (also polyethylene) your springs are currently in.  You could cut the bottom out of that, & use only the sides of that thing too.  I just didn't want to save anything that wasn't steel.  Either way keep it only around the edges, not underneath.   I used the blue camping mats from wal mart (the shiny $5 hard ones in a roll, in the camping section are polyethylene, not the soft blue ones in the yoga section) to a little under the height of the springs.  Depending on your springs, you can also slide one of these strips, vertically, just inside each of the outermost rows of springs along all four edges, inside the unit itself.

You can put the entire thing in any thin mattress encasement. My springs sit directly on slats, but plywood probably wouldn't be z problem either.  If you're worried about your springs' performance, put on old clothes (they might get snagged), & lay down directly on them.  You can tell right away if they're all just all mashing down together underneath you, or actually conforming like you know they should.  Now the goal is to just add as little as is required to relieve pressure, without dampening that conforming action of your springs.  If you were a back sleeper, <2" of firm latex would do it.  Side sleepers will need something thicker & softer.  But every layer of pads, foam, & casing you add puts you that much further removed from what your springs are doing for you.  I've found less is more.

Something else to think about- just shuffling around all these foams & springs in & out of cases, on & off your bed, can wreck that night's sleep regardless of what you're sleeping on, if you don't take precautions.  No joke, treat it as an athletic event- stretch before & after, move purposefully, don't get caught in an awkward position while holding anything heavy, & get someone to help, or do it for you if possible.  Even changing sheets one too many times if you're bending awkwardly can strain.

 I'm convinced a lot of members here don't end up giving some their new setups a fair chance, because they've unknowingly strained their backs in the process of setting it up, then feel it that  night.   Many of here already have back/muscle/nerve problems.  We didn't seek this forum  out because we can sleep on just anything.  There's probably a reason for that.  Have to pay attention to our sensitivities.  

Thanks very much for the info about using strips of hard camping mats to go around the edges of the springs. That is a creative idea.

My springs weren't wrapped in any sort of polyethylene foam box. They were just covered with convoluted PU foam -- one sheet each on top & bottom -- that was wrapped only a few inches down the sides. (Directly above the springs were the Novabond mats & dacron sheets; then the foam; then the quilted top & bottom panels.)

I'm not convinced that these coils are still good -- my hips were sinking down too far last night. And there was a plywood board across the hip area, below the springs/dacron/Novabond and the quilted bottom. [I keep editing this paragraph because I keep checking things on the springs, and one time I check, I think the springs can't go downward anymore, because of the board, and another time I check, I think maybe they are going down a smidge. Hard to tell from on top of the springs.]

Well, they do sort of mash down, but they're springs -- they're supposed to compress -- so I don't know how to tell whether they're compressing more than they should.

I did notice much less pressure on my shoulders, so I think removing the dacron & Novabond from the top of the springs did free up the coils to do their thing better. (Which, again, makes me wonder why those pads were put there in the first place. If you wanted to sell a firm mattress, wouldn't you be better off using different springs and a lower-gauge wire, instead of using open offset coils and a higher-gauge wire and then dampening them with fiber mats?)

I tried to be careful moving the mattress around, but sometimes getting caught in an awkward position is inevitable with heavy things. (The spring structure is not all that heavy; it's just awkward to handle because of its size.) Generally, I do not have lower back pain *unless* it's been caused by the mattress.

I would try it with even less foam.    Maybe take of the 14.  Possibly only 2" of firm latex. Remove whatever you can out of the bottom and leave as thin of a piece over the coils as possible.  I assume you are not using the quilted top any more?   If so, that has to go as well.  If you still think you are sinking in too much, then it is either the coils or the quilted bottom.   

Do you know what size mattress that 620 coil count is for on the Sealy Posturepedic? (Twin, Full, Queen...?)

That is interesting that you noticed a big difference in support between the top-of-the-line Sealy mattress and the middle-of-the-line one.

The coils in my mattress are 14.5 gauge.

I'll take off the 1" of 14 ILD. The top quilted panel is gone. The bottom one is still there, but I've got a plywood board between it and the springs, in the hip area, so I can't imagine that the panel would still be much of a factor.

620 14 gauge is the full size.  This is in their more expensive ones.  I am sure they have ones with less.  Approximately what did you pay for yours?

 

Thanks, Sandman. I paid about $750 for the mattress & foundation in July of 2009.

I will take the springs out of the case again and take out that last sheet of dacron, and try this one more time.

The Novabond mat attached to the springs on the bottom is too thin to be a factor (it's a very dense 1/8" at most), but even with the plywood I've got in there, maybe the dacron and the bottom quilted panel are still a problem somehow. If using the springs without the case and without the dacron doesn't solve the problem, then I think I'm back to Square One (i.e., new mattress).

And when I lie on this thing -- both with and without the latex on it -- my hips still sink in too far; I can feel a kink in my spine, and see it in the mirror setup. I put my yoga mat across the hip area (a couple inches down in the latex layers) to try to stop the sinking. We'll see if that does enough, but I suspect that it will not.

If it doesn't, I think the only conclusion is that the coils just do not provide enough support for me. That might not mean the coils are worn out -- might just mean they're not the right kind for me (which confuses me, because the first year on the mattress was good) -- but if I can't get even close to proper spinal alignment with these coils, then fiddling with toppers is not going to help.

I thought the whole point of the innerspring coils was to provide support, so I'm not a happy camper right now.

I know the coils are going to compress some, 'cause that's how they work, but shouldn't they also be... you know... springing? (By which I mean: Shouldn't they be pushing back up, to provide the elusive support and keep me aloft, rather than continuing to compress and letting me sink in so far?) Or am I misunderstanding something fundamental here?

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised in the morning and won't wake up in a sinkhole.... That would be lovely.

On a side note: I had to go to an Urgent Care center this afternoon to get a gash in my hand looked at, cleaned out, and bandaged and get a tetanus shot.* The nurse who took care of me is getting ready to open up her mattress, too, and it's only 3 years old. She couldn't remember the model name just then, but said it was an expensive mattress -- and it's been killing her back. Seemed like a (sort of) funny coincidence.

* Guess who cut herself with the razor-blade tool while cutting foam off the mattress? I was taking a very short break from work, cutting some foam, and the tool slipped, so I wound up spending the next hour or so trying to stop the bleeding, and finally called my doctor's office and got sent to an Urgent Care center, where I was very well taken care of. Wonderful people there, and soooo much better than sitting around in an emergency room. (The nurse and I also both had horror stories about overcrowded ER's, so Yay for these Urgent Care centers, and Yay for Eastside Medical in particular.) 

Wow foam is serious business.  I hope you're okay.

"Well, they do sort of mash down, but they're springs -- they're supposed to compress -- so I don't know how to tell whether they're compressing more than they should."

They are if your hips sink too far without any foam on them, in which case no amount of foam on top can really fix that without compromising their action.  When I lay directly on my springs, I stay flat, at the top. They just barely compress enough under my hips & shoulders for the coils in between those two points to hit the arch of my back.  If your hips are still sinking with that little latex on top, I don't know where to go from there.  I don't know that this is the case with yours, but I have tried mattresses, new, that were already sinking in too much like that for me. I could feel them compress too far even through the comfort layers.  They were 5xx coils, but serta.

"I did notice much less pressure on my shoulders, so I think removing the dacron & Novabond from the top of the springs did free up the coils to do their thing better. (Which, again, makes me wonder why those pads were put there in the first place. If you wanted to sell a firm mattress, wouldn't you be better off using different springs and a lower-gauge wire, instead of using open offset coils and a higher-gauge wire and then dampening them with fiber mats?)"

Seems that way to me.  I wish that's how they were made, I just know they don't work for me as is. 
 

It sounds like your springs don't give enough support. Could be the quantity and gauge or it could be the quality of the steel.  I think it is unusual to go bad in 2.5 years, so that is a bit puzzling.  All I can say is that when I lay directly on mine, they feel plenty firm.  I definitely don't have a feeling of sinking in too much.  Of course you have to sink in some, that is the point. 

It is hard for someone outside to evaluate your situation, so you have to use your best judgement.  Not sure what to recommend at this point, but if the coils don't give enough support, you pretty much have to get a new mattress.  Give a try though, before jumping to a conclusion.