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Hello all, I've been reading this forum ever since I bought my new latex mattress from a local mfg. As you recall, I returned a "medium" latex mattress and got a "firm" from this company in Massachusetts. I found that I was bottoming out on the 8 inch "medium" mattress. They claim to use only Talalay Latex from Latex International. I assume this is blended rather than all natural, but they don't say. The firm mattress which I kept is a bit TOO firm for me with 6 inches of "40 ILD" under 2 inches of "32 ILD"....all enclosed in a permanent cotton/wool cover. I have added an old 2" piece of memory foam which helps immensely and I've been sleeping pretty well on this setup. However, sometimes I still feel like I might be "bottoming out" with this bed (I weigh 265 lbs) though it's hard to tell if I'm just hitting the FIRM latex underneath. SO, I am about to purchase another 3 inch topper layer of latex and wanted some opinions. I prefer a softer feel on top but don't want to "bottom" out. After researching all the usual sites, I am leaning toward a 3 inch "medium" layer from "Foam Sweet Foam" ($400) since they claim to sell only "natural" latex. Some recent posts seem to imply that the natural latex is a bit more dense than the blended latex.(?) Thanks for any thoughts or comments. |
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Mark all I can tell you is that I have been going firmer over the last almost 90 days with my all natural Talalay FlowBeds. I weigh 210 pounds and am 6' 2". The side of my bed that is sleeping the best has a 3" extra firm piece on the bottom with two firm pieces over that, topped off with a 2 inch convoluted pieces of soft Talalay. Having a bed with a zipper on it, so that I can move the layers around is a tremendous advantage, coupled with the ability to exchange layers for 90 days. I have found that firmer is better for me. |
| Eagle, I agree with firm being better......but I don't have the 2 inch "solf" layer that you have on top of all the firm layers. I'm looking for a bit of extra comfort for pressure points, etc which is why I am leaning toward trying a "medium" layer on top. I loved the feel of the original medium firm mattress I had, but it just bottomed out on me too easily. Luckily, I don't have any major back problems. I guess I can exchange the medium if it feels too soft. |
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Mark, for a man of your weight I think you are falling into the same trap that I did. Namely, softer sounds nice. A 265 pounds my guess is that what you need is extra firm. You might even look into Dunlop processed latex. Dunlop has a much more dense configuration. Possibly what you need is 6 inches of firm Dunlop overlaid with 3 inches of firm Talalay. the side of my bed that is sleeping the best right now has a extra firm three-inch piece on the bottom, overlaid with two three-inch firm pieces, overlaid with a 2 inch convoluted soft piece of Talalay. And I'm going to try and even firmer configuration, namely, two extra firm pieces with a firm piece on top overlaid with the 2 inch soft convoluted piece. Talalay is not as dense as Dunlop. And don't be fooled by ILD ratings. They only give you part of the story. I have heard that if you are going with Talalay instead of Dunlop that you need to step down a rating. In other words if a medium Dunlop feels good, and you wanted a Talalay piece processed latex, you should buy a firm peace of Talalay. At least that's what I've been told, I have no personal experience to give you. You might want to read my thread "I just bought a FlowBeds" I tell quite a bit about it there although I'm still experimenting and haven't added any additional technical information lately. |
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Eagle, I have been following your other thread on here. I understand what you are saying about the blended latex and ILD ratings. I THINK I currently have 6 inches of "extra firm" and 2 inches of "firm" as my top layer. This is pretty HARD at first feel! Unfortunately I can't exchange it for Dunlop at this point. And YES, I have already proved your point about needing "very firm" for a heavy person! I don't think the store should have even sold me that "medium" mattress originally......and I bought it from the company owner in person! So my choice remains either "medium" or "firm" for my added layer. Guess I will give it more thought and see if anyone else jumps in here. I know "Kimberly" will vote for the "firm" also. haha |
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I think you are the right track that you need a couple more inches of latex above the firm. I assume by bottoming out that you feel like you are hitting something hard below your hips? I think it will depend on whether you still plan to use the memory foam on top. If you do, then I think the medium (24-28 ILD?) might be too many soft layers on top and you will probably sink in too far. The medium might be okay without the memory foam. That is my estimate from experiencing the blended talalay. The 100% natural might be more supportive, but I still think that plus the memory foam will be too soft (especially for someone your size). Firm might work if you keep the memory foam topper. Even one likes a different feel, so pretty hard to say from the outside. Ideally you could get both the medium and firm and return the one that doesn't work as well. If you want less than 3" you might also look at sleepez. If you click on "mattress components" you can see that they have blended talalay, 100% natural talalay and 100% dunlop. You can get 1", 1,5 or 2" as well as the 3". It might be a custom order though for some of those sizes. I am not totally sure you need 3". 2" might be slightly better and you could always add 1" later. Their medium is 30-32 ILD. This message was modified Dec 21, 2009 by sandman
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I'm not going to jump into the density debate, but I can state that I am close to your weight and height, and three layers of extra firm blended Talalay at 36 ILD, with a convoluted topper of . . . I think it's 28 ILD, provides excellent support with no bottoming out. I don't know anything about the company you mention, but I wish I'd known about it when I was mattress shopping, as the prices seem a little better than Flobeds and they are within reasonable driving distance of where I live. It looks from their FAQ that they are using 100% natural latex from LI, which is a good thing. The only concern I have is whether you can specify exactly the ILD you want. They, like some other firms, seem to break their latex into broad categories of "soft," "medium," "firm," "extra firm." I would want to specify the exact ILD I want. My first mattress I bought from a company north of me, I was told the ILD would be 32 (too soft) and what I got was 28 ILD (way too soft). So just be sure you can specify exactly what you want. |
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Sandman, Thanks for your excellent insight. I'm glad you think I'm on the right track as I'm sure my wife thinks I'm nuts....hahaha. Actually, I was hoping to get rid of the old memory foam when I got this new latex mattress. It was being used on top of my old 28 yr old innerspring mattress! So, 3 inches of medium might do the trick OR I could try 2 inches and continue to use the old memory foam. Part of my decision is to use as few added layers as possible so I don't have them slipping around. The new mattress is permanently encased and I'm just covering any added layers with the mattress pad and sheets. (I had a cover on the memory foam and it kept sliding off one side of the bed until I took the cover off) Kimberly, I also noticed that the toppers were in "ranges" and not a specified ILD. I"m not sure if this is a deal breaker or not. I'll have to price SleepEZ toppers and see if I can get the same item there. Their toppers all seem to be "blended" unless I call them for a special order maybe. |
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You should be able to get blended or 100% natural talalay or dunlop from sleepez. Their prices are good, but they do charge $49 per order for shipping. It is hard to know exactly what ILD will be right for you. It seems that trial and error is the only way. Note that latex will feel different than the memory foam. The memory foam seems better at pressure relief (molding to the body), but since the ILD is so low it does not offer as much support. However, I once tried 3" of memory foam on top of 6" of XF latex, and it felt pretty good. Kimberly, since the top flobed layer is convoluted, the effective firmness is less. They told me it is around 14, since half of the latex is cut out. That is just an approximation though. I wish that flobeds had more options for the top level - they probably do on request. |
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sandman wrote: You should be able to get blended or 100% natural talalay or dunlop from sleepez. Their prices are good, but they do charge $49 per order for shipping. It is hard to know exactly what ILD will be right for you. It seems that trial and error is the only way. Note that latex will feel different than the memory foam. The memory foam seems better at pressure relief (molding to the body), but since the ILD is so low it does not offer as much support. However, I once tried 3" of memory foam on top of 6" of XF latex, and it felt pretty good. Kimberly, since the top flobed layer is convoluted, the effective firmness is less. They told me it is around 14, since half of the latex is cut out. That is just an approximation though. I wish that flobeds had more options for the top level - they probably do on request. Sandman: I was curious about this as well and one of the times I was speaking to FlowBeds about one of my exchanges I asked them about their catalog. They told me that they did not sell individual pieces to individual customers. However they would work with an existing customer who have purchased a mattress from them for any of the parts that they have listed in their catalog. It would be worth giving them a call and checking them out after having reviewed what is offered in that catalog. Here is a link to the catalog in question. http://www.flobeds.com/catalog.lasso |
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Sandman, I think Flobeds will exchange your convoluted layer (if you're still within your exchange period) for a solid piece if you don't like the convoluted. If you're past the 90 days, they'll problably sell you a new piece, as Eagle said. I don't know if you tried it yet, but I think a thick wool mattress topper (like 3") will make your bed feel firmer. But that may be more of a surface feel. As you may remember, I found even my wool fleece pad made the bed feel firmer. I didn't try my old wool-filled topper (3-4 in) as I prefer the feeling of just the latex in it's cover and thin mattress pad (but not for heat--wish I could use my wool pad as it did help me with that, though I know you said it didn't help you....) But I would imagine the wool topper would have really firmed up my bed. |
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Mark, I would add 3 x 1" layers in various ILD's so you can mix and match them, rather than one x 3" layer. I think maybe a 1" soft layer on top might help you feel more comfort without screwing up your mattress's support. But 2" can be too much. (Sometimes even 1/2" can be too much!) I think 1" layers are always the way to go, so you have more options. |
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Jim, Thanks for the idea of more thinnner layers. I hadn't thought of that approach. My only concern is if several thin layers might move or shift more on the mattress. My original latex mattress is sealed in a cotton/wool cover so I will be laying the layers on top of it. So far, the 2 inch memory foam stays in place after I removed it's slippery cover and placed it on a non skid pad on top of the mattress. This is covered with just a good fitted mattress pad and fitted sheets. I'm now thinking of ordering a 2 inch "medium" and 1 inch "soft" from SleepEZ mattress components in the 100% Natural Talalay Latex. The "soft" would be kind of like the top layer that Flobeds uses. Mark in NH |
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Sorry I haven't responded sooner. But let it be known that foam does not shift, almost not at all. It may shift a half inch or so once in a while, but nothing that causes any problems. I've used: HR foam, M-Grade foam, latex, about 6 different kinds of memory foam, and none of them shift. We put them where we want them and they tend to stay there. We even use zoned layers, where the bed is divided vertically into 3 layers, 1/3 for the upper body, 1/3 for the middle of the body and 1/3 for the bottom (legs), and these don't even shift to make a gap between the layers. |
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Okay...thanks Jim. I don't see any online order page or form for SleepEZ, so I assume one must do it the old fashion way by telephone? I'm just waiting until after this holiday week. |
| after reading this post I'll be curious how my Costco latex mattress acts under my own 290lbs?! sounds like I'll be adding layers. Might try the NexGel, they've got a real deal on one close to my house. Nice mattress. I sure didn't feel like was bottoming out on it. |
| I have three layers of Talalay Latex from FloBeds ranging from 36 to 46 ILD with split sides. I love my bed but the soft topper was too thick for me being that I am petite and like very firm beds. Dave at FloBeds exchanged it twice trying to help me since first I thought I wanted a 2" Dunlap topper and then a 1.5" soft Talalay Lax Queen topper. When I saw that Brylane Homes was having a sale on a queen size 1" natural Talalay Latex layer over 2 years ago, I bought it to try out and it is perfect for me. It gives me just enough cushion for side sleeping but not too much so my bed is still firm and supportive for my small frame size. but then again, I am not quite 5 feet and petite everywhere. |
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Okay, after MUCH thought and research I decided to stick with my original plan and ordered a 3 inch topper from "Foam Sweet Foam" in the "medium" firmness. This is 100% natural LI latex with a 30 year guarantee. The ILD is supposed to be "Between 24-28". Cost is $400. with free shipping which is a little better than most places. It's interesting that SleepEZ calls 30-32 ILD as "Medium" while Foam Sweet Foam labels it "firm". I decided not to play around with several 1 inch layers since they were hard to find in the "100% natural". So, this will leave me with: Bottom core of 5.5 inches -- 40 ILD blended LI Talalay (original sealed mattress with cover) 2.0 inches-- 32 ILD blended LI Talalay (original sealed mattress with cover) 1.5 inches- Memory foam (ILD unknown) 3.0 inches-- 24-28 ILD 100% natural LI Talalay Not sure if I will continue using the memory foam...will depend on how it all feels together. Hopefully the "medium" will not be too soft. I don't have any back issues and loved my original "medium" latex mattress feel except for the bottoming out issue. Will post how it all works out at a later date.
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Sounds like a combination of what you bought - you could switch a couple layers around if you want - should work. Let us know. I'll be curious if you feel the 24ILD latex gives you any - or enough - support. I am not all that familiar with latex, so I'm just wondering. I may be in the market for some latex very soon... |
| Jim, I'm not really looking for support from this top layer since the bottom layers are SO firm. Right now I'm trying to get that "plush" feeling when I sink into a few inches of softness...haha. I'll let you know. |
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markbnh1 wrote: Jim, I'm not really looking for support from this top layer since the bottom layers are SO firm. Right now I'm trying to get that "plush" feeling when I sink into a few inches of softness...haha. I'll let you know. Hi, I know you're not looking for support. But if you put too much soft foam on top of firm foam, it can counter-act the firm foam's support. Of course you may be absolutely right in your assessment of what you need, but I'm just opining that it sounds like too much soft foam, to me. Let us know how it works out, and I hope it works out perfectly for you! |