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hi. i'm in the process of looking for a latex mattress for the futon frame i'm going to be buying shortly. my studio is small so i plan to get a futon which i'm going to fold and unfold into and from a sofa/bed every day. i've never owned a latex mattress before, so i'm wondering what you experienced folks on this forum would recommend: getting one 6" dunlop core or two 3" cores? also, from those of you who own dunlop mattresses, do you think the mattress will be easy enough to fold into a couch every day in the first place? btw, i'm a fairly light and lean guy at around 5'7" and 130 lbs., so if you also have some recommendations for what you think may be good ILDs for me that would also be greatly appreciated. i tend to like a softer mattress, but that is also supportive (i sleep in every position. side, stomach, back - just depends on the night) i've read through a lot of posts on this forum and you folks seem extremely knowledgeable. a latex rookie like myself would greatly appreciate as much advice from you guys as possible. thanks! =) This message was modified Mar 29, 2008 by brownbrian
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The advantage of Dunlop over Talalay is that you can get good support at a soft ILD with only one core. With Talalay you really need several cores of different ILDs to achieve adequate support as well as comfort. I slept on a Dunlop mattress for many years. It was only 5" thick, but it was paired with a box spring. My entire family slept on similar mattresses including my father who was 5'11"and about 175 lbs, and we were all very comfortable. However, some people have described Dunlop as thudding rather than springy like Talalay, which surprised me since my Dunlop mattress always felt bouncy enough--but it was on an innerspring. On a futon frame it might feel less so. Then again, if you are accustomed to futons this might not bother you. But about that frame... Latex is limp and very heavy. It needs to be properly supported with a solid foundation or with slats that are no more than 3" apart. Bigger gaps will allow the latex to sag through the spaces. Bad for the mattress and bad for your back. I would recommend trying out a latex mattress if you can so you have some idea of what it feels like and which ILD suits you best. If you are ordering online, you might want to go with two cores rather than one. That way you can get one a bit firmer and the other a bit softer. It gives you more latitude to play with your comfort level. The mattress I had was probably 26-28 ILD. It felt soft but was still supportive. A 26-28 core of Talalay would just feel soft and not at all supportive. When you get right down to it comfort is a very subjective thing. This message was modified Mar 30, 2008 by cloud9
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wow! thanks cloud9 for your post - very informative and very helpful! (i was kind of hoping for some more responses and opinions, but is this because people didn't have anything to add to what you said?) i was originally leaning towards getting one 6" core (would've been a little cheaper), but after reading what you had to say, i think i'll probably go ahead and order two 3" pieces because this seems wiser. (the ones i'm looking at are actually sold as 3" mattress toppers, but if i combine them, they shouldn't be any different than a regular 6" mattress core, right?) either way, i was thinking dunlop all the way. from everything i've read on this forum, i get the feeling that talalay just won't provide enough support. i worry that i'd be able to feel the futon frame slats through talalay depending on the pressure i'm exerting. or if i went thicker than 6", that it might get difficult in folding/unfolding the futon. even though cloud9 you were the only person to respond so far, i feel fortunate that at least the only reply (yours) was a very informative and helpful one! your advice is helping me and giving me confidence in trying to make my decision. so thanks again! =) if anyone else has any other thoughts or advice though, i'd still love to hear it. even if all you have to say is that you agree with what cloud9 said, hearing more of the same advice would be assuring. come on you latex pros, this newbie wants to draw from your vast latex knowledge and experiences! hit me with it! This message was modified Apr 1, 2008 by brownbrian
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Brownbrian, I would always recommend at least two latex cores with the bottom latex core being much firmer than the top to make sure you have good support. I tried a Dunlap Latex topper and found it too hard to be a topper and too soft for support so I sent it back and now I have a Talalay topper over my three latex cores from FloBeds. I have heard that Dunlap latex cores make a good firm base and I feel it is always better to err on the side of too firm since you could always add a softer thin topper for cushion. Since you like soft mattresses that are also supportive, maybe have the bottom core a higher ILD than the top core and see if that is comfortable for you. I would go to stores and lie on the latex beds and ask what the firmness and ILD's are as you read for at least 15 to 30 minutes in each bed. When you think you know which firmness you like, then I would go back to that bed and lie on it like you are taking a nap for no less than 15 minutes and preferrably for at least 30 minutes to decide it it is starting to feel too hard or too soft. Always make sure the frame you are using is a firm supportive frame with not too much room between the slats but some room for the latex cores to breath. Sorry it took me so long to reply but I am in the middle of crunch time with less than 2 weeks of tax season to go. I try to read posts as I am eating meals at my desk or checking emails int between clients. I try my best to help others like they have helped me but sometimes I am busier than other times. |
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I am "third-ing" what Cloud9 and Lynn said. I think you definitely have to go with layers to make latex work for you. We bought a latex mattress that had a 6" medium (around 36 ILD) core with some quilting in the cover and found that it was neither firm enough to be supportive for our backs nor was it soft enough to relieve pressure points in my hips. We tried it for a month and couldn't make it work for us. We ended up returning it for an innerspring mattress. For the record I am also 5' 7" and 128 lbs. One thing I'm wondering about though, is how the latex will stand up to the everyday folding and unfolding inside your futon frame. It's a little more fragile in nature than regular foam. I would call Flobeds or some place like that and get their opinion before dropping your $$$ on the latex. - Kim |
| Kim, Without my 44 ILD on each side of my bed, my 39 ILD and 36 ILD latex cores would not be firm enough for me. I need a 3/4" latex topper for cushion. My Brylane Latex Topper is 1" but I wish now it was only 3/4" but it fits my bed well so I am workign with it. I am sleeping much better now with the set up I have. If you had a 44 ILD latex core under the 36 ILD latex core with a soft thin topper above them, I think you would have been comfortable. But I am glad you found a set up comfortable for you. To me latex needs layers for support and comfort. |
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lynn2006 and kimmcgov, thank you very much for both of your input! i didn't think there were going to be any more responses, so seeing your replies was a nice surprise! =) after reflecting on all the words of advice i've received so far, i definitely think i'm going with the layering. and i think the plan right now is to shoot for a firmer 4" dunlop core with a softer 2" talalay topper. (this sounds ok, right?) i don't know where i'm going to buy from yet, but i have to say that this mattress search process has been very draining and tiring (as i'm sure many others here can attest to). i am looking forward to the day i get to actually sleep on the mattress... anyway, thanks again you two! |
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Lynn2006 wrote: Kim, Without my 44 ILD on each side of my bed, my 39 ILD and 36 ILD latex cores would not be firm enough for me. I need a 3/4" latex topper for cushion. My Brylane Latex Topper is 1" but I wish now it was only 3/4" but it fits my bed well so I am workign with it. I am sleeping much better now with the set up I have. If you had a 44 ILD latex core under the 36 ILD latex core with a soft thin topper above them, I think you would have been comfortable. But I am glad you found a set up comfortable for you. To me latex needs layers for support and comfort. Lynn, Yes your set-up makes perfect sense. Too bad I did not find this forum until after we had spent our money. We are sleeping really well though at the moment (with the Brylane topper over everything). It's amazing that you would be able to tell the difference between 1 inch and 3/4 inches of latex. You are like the princess and the pea :-) |
| Thank you Kim for agreeing with me that my set-up of my latex cores makes perfect sense and for lettign me know you also like the Brylane Topper and are comfortable now which is what matters. My back has always been a little sensitive due to my small amount of Scoliosis I have but now it is very sensitive since the car accident and it is amazing how a 1/4" of extra padding can feel so different. I just like the quality of the Brylane Topper and after cutting it to fit my Queen bed, it is a perfect fit while the less thick Overstock Topper was falling apart and a little short for the bed. |
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I have to reiterate--there is a BIG difference between the way Dunlop feels and the way Talalay feels. I can't stress enough how important it is to try each type of latex out before you make a choice if at all possible. Don't assume that trying out a Talalay mattress will provide an accurate idea of what a Dunlop mattress will feel like or vice versa, because it won't. As you can see there are two latex camps here--those who prefer Talalay, like Lynn, and those who prefer Dunlop like me. It's all subjective. I think good quality Talalay is a very consistent material and it's certainly "prettier." But it has certain quirks and characteristics I found impossible to sleep on. On the other hand, having slept on Dunlop for many years, I know for a fact that it provides very good support at soft ILDs, something that can't be said for Talalay. Which latex will suit you best? Well, if you like a springy extremely resilient foam that pushes back against your body you will probably prefer Talalay. Dunlop is more passive and probably takes less getting used to. It's more like lying on a very comfy couch. Kim wondered how latex would take to folding up on a daily basis. Actually it should do quite well. Latex mattresses are recommended for use with those adjustable beds so it should be fine on a futon frame. But keep it inside of a cover. Latex is fragile in an unprotected state. Talalay, perhaps more so than Dunlop because of all the air whipped into the latex. Dunlop is denser and a little more sturdy. You want to keep it protected from UV light. Latex is biodegradable. Protected it will last a good 20 years or more. Unprotected, as little as 3. So yeah, I'm biased, but I think that since you are basically sleeping on a futon, not an actual bed, Dunlop is still the right way to go. You will need less of it to build a comfortable mattress. Talalay really requires three 3" cores and possibly a thinner topper to get it right. With Dunlop you could do it with a mere 6 inches--something to consider when you are folding it into a couch every day. Latex is heavy! Since you like a soft bed, go with a soft and a medium core. You can always add a 1" soft Talalay topper, but I really don't think you'll need to. Good luck, and let us know what you ended up with--where you bought your foam and how you like it. This message was modified Apr 7, 2008 by cloud9
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| Cloud9, I never slept on a Dunlap latex mattress and it sounds from your description, very comfortable. I just prefer Talalay latex toppers since that is all I have experience with and I did not like the Dunlap topper. Thanks for always sharing your knowledge and experiences. |
| Lynn, I wondered what the ILD was on the Dunlop topper. It might have been too firm to accomplish what you wanted. My feeling is that if you can sleep comfortably on Talalay why not? My problem with it was that when it was firm enough to be supportive it made me ache all over. Soft enough to be comfortable (for the first two hours) and I got no support. Plus, I just didn't like the pushy feeling. I seemed to be jiggling all over the mattress unable to settle securely and comfortably into it. For me Dunlop latex just has that "aahhhh" factor. |
| Cloud9, the only way Talalay Latex is comfortable for me is with a 44 ILD on the bottom and no less than a 39 ILD under a soft topper that is no more than 1". But this set up seams to be the best for me right now. I am sure I would be comfortable with either a Dunlap Latex Core on the bottom or a Talalay Latex core on the bottom of the mattress if it is at least a 44 ILD. The Dunlap topper was too thick at 1.5" and not soft enough for me and made me ache all over. I really love the way soft Talalay Latex feels underneath me. My bed is not jiggly since I have the set up to be very firm which I like and need. After all, if it wasn't for the dust closer to the floor and how uncomfortable it is to get up on and off the floor, I would have just continued to sleep with my Overstock 1" topper on my carpeted bedroom floor since it was so comfortable for me. I am glad you found what works for you. I may have not had a soft enough topper that was too thick not knowing I could not handle more than a 1" topper. |
| Lynn, I think I would actually have liked the feeling of the soft Talalay(20 ILD) core over a 38 and 44-- if there had been less of it. 3" was too much and it undermined the support of the firm layers beneath. Half of that, possibly even just 1" would have been much better, but I know what you're talking about. I do like that 1" Brylane Talalay topper, which is probably more like a 26-28 ILD, but only with the 1" Overstock visco topper over it. That combination comes close to approximating the feeling of my old Dunlop mattress. The latex provides resilience and the visco provides the soft cradling quality I like. And no jiggles! |
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cloud9, just wanted to tell you again that your opinions and advice were much appreciated when i was looking to buy my latex! and just to give you an update, i've finally received most of the pieces to my bed (the major pieces at least). i got a 4" medium firm (26 ifd i believe) in 100% natural dunlop and i just got my 2" 100% natural talalay topper 2 days ago (22 ifd). it feels nice so far (granted i've been sleeping on an inflatable air mattress for the past month so anything would feel nice to me at this point), but the latex is actually a bit firmer than i expected (even the talalay topper). i guess i was expecting it to be really, really soft. but fortunately, as a few people have wisely helped me remember, is that i can always make my bed softer, but i can't make it firmer - so i have no regrets so far and do not expect to. and the folding of the futon is working out alright. it folded pretty easily with just the 4" piece, but once i added the extra 2" it takes a little more effort to fold - but it all still stays nicely folded in place. and just fyi regarding the other parts of my bed: i also ordered a 100% natural organic futon mattress cover, a buckwheat pillow, a kapok pillow, and a 100% organic cotton sateen fitted sheet. so my bed is pretty much as natural and eco/health friendly as can be! haha. (although i haven't gotten the kapok pillow and sateen sheet yet) anyway, thanks again everyone for all your help and input! it was all very much appreciated! ^.^ |
| Brownbrian, we all are happy for you that we were of help and you now have a Dunlap/Talalay Latex combination bed. Please keep us updated. |
| Brownbrian, glad my advice was helpful. Your mattress sounds so comfy. You really do like a soft bed if you find the 22/26 combination a bit on the firm side! I'm guestimating that the Dunlop mattress I slept on was probably a 26 and it always seemed really soft to me. Some vendors still sell super soft 16 ILD Talalay, but most of them have stopped carrying it because it has a tendency to compress after awhile--just in case you're tempted to go even softer on top. I think you'll find that the latex will soften up a bit in time, and once you get used to the new sleep surface it will probably seem perfect to you. Here's to many years of great sleep! |