What's the Best Mattress | AN ANSWER to What's the best mattress?

AN ANSWER to What's the best mattress?

Aug 30, 2009 9:18 PM

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Location: L.A. area
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Points: 1161

Which mattress should I buy?

My "mattress resume'" is printed below following the bulk of this message. I feel pretty qualified to give this advice, but of course, take it with a grain of salt. This is just my opinion, in the end. But it is based on many other people's experiences as well as my own,and it gives you some info that you can use to make your own decision.

This is surely not "DEFINITIVE" and I hope others who've been here on this forum awhile and experimented with foams and mattress springs will add their 2 cents. But I write this because I sincerely believe it will help the average mattress buyer.

SO HERE IS MY RECOMMENDATION TO MATTRESS BUYERS:

1) Buy the kind of springs you like. Find out as best you can what kind you have been using, that you like, and buy the same mattress or as similar as you can get. My only exception to that rule is if you bought cheap pocket coils like Simmons. Those are known to break down quickly and won't last, so I would not buy them again. In that case, just buy some good "regular" springs (not pocket coils) , OR plan to replace your springs at least every 6 months if you do buy Simmons pocket coils. If you always loved your Sealy or Englander mattress but need a new one, then just buy the closest thing you can to what you had. Don't be talked into the latest greatest thing by the salesman. Stick to what you know and like.

With springs there are basically 2 major considerations:
1) the number of coils. This is usually measured as per the Queen size. Personally I don't think it matters that much as long as the springs are constructed in a quality manner.
2) the gauge of the coils - this refers to the thickness of the wire in the springs. A lower number indicates a thicker, firmer spring and a higher number indicates a thinner, less firm spring. Pocket coils tend to be thin and that's why they break down. Personally I prefer a thicker spring and that's why I currently am using 12.5 gauge Englander springs (actually Bonnell type). But some experts believe that a 13 gauge spring is perfect. Some say 12¾. You'll hear about the number of turns in the spring and this also affects it. I'm no expert on springs but I would say that for the most part any good 12.5 to 13 gauge spring will work and it's an individual preference. If you weigh over, say, 180lb it may behoove you to go with thicker springs.

2) THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE I CAN GIVE YOU:
BUY THE FIRMEST MATTRESS YOU CAN GET WITH THE SPRINGS YOU LIKE. AND NEVER EVER BUY A PILLOW TOP OR PLUSH MATTRESS.
"But I LOVE a soft cushy mattress!" you say. Okay, fine. Make it as plush as you want by adding your own Toppers or doing mattress surgery and adding your own high quality foams on top of the springs. (more on "mattress surgery" later)

Why not buy it with the foam already in the mattress to make it nice and soft?

Because foam breaks down and the more soft and cheap foam you have inside the mattress the quicker it will break down.
And because all the big mattress companies are keeping costs low by using lots of cheap polyurethane foam (referred to as PU or Poly foam), you are better off buying a firmer mattress and then adding your own topper (or, as some of us prefer, opening up the mattress and replacing the foam inside with latex or other higher quality foam).
You can make a too-firm mattress softer but you cannot make a too-soft mattress firmer!

The big mattress companies make the mattresses ultra soft with cheap p.u. foam so it will feel "like a cloud" in the store so that you'll buy it. But it will break down in a week or a month or 6 months and then you'll be stuck with it, and - if you're like most people - since you cannot now return it, you will buy a new mattress. Since ALL the big mattress companies (sometimes referred to as the "Big S" companies) are doing this, your only option is to buy an all latex mattress or an air mattress or buy a mattress from a store and then do mattress surgery sooner or later. More on that later...

So my conclusion is that what you should do is buy a good quality firm mattress with good quality springs and then add your own toppers to make it softer. That way when the toppers break down you can just buy new toppers. And since the firm mattress has less cheap p.u. foam, it will break down less quickly. As to whether the more expensive mattresses are really better, you'll have to decide that on your own.

There are some private smaller companies still making good spring mattresses but these will generally cost you quite a bit more than the Big S mattresses. Worth it? Maybe. I am skeptical of all but the most expensive super-quality mattresses that really do use high quality materials and springs. Otherwise you may as well go for a cheap mattress with good springs and change the foams inside, yourself.

Eventually you'll probably have to do mattress surgery, because the foams inside your mattress WILL break down. As to how to dissect a mattress and perform surgery, you can check out the link I've given below and you can find many other threads here regarding that process, some with better photos than the link I posted. SEE THE TOP OF THIS FORUM WHERE IT SAYS "HIGHLIGHTED THREADS".

Performing surgery on your first mattress is kind of like diving into a pool for the first time, it seems scary because you've never done it before. And you just HATE cutting into your beautiful nice mattress - even if it's been killing your back. But believe me, once you do it you'll be glad you did because you can get rid of that cheap and/or broken down foam that was giving you no support and buy some good quality foam to replace it with. Your back will be glad you had the courage to cut into that mattress!

To cut foam (like if you buy a large King size Sensus foam topper and want to cut it down to Twin or Full size) or if you want to experiment with zones by cutting up your latex or memory foam pieces, use a cheap electric meat carving knife, such as the ones at K-Mart or Target. It'll cut it like butter.

For cutting into your mattress to take it apart, use an exacto type knife with a razor type blade.

My recommendations for foams and toppers:

***Latex is the highest quality foam you can buy. There are 2 ways of processing latex: Talalay and Dunlop. GENERALLY speaking (there are exceptions) Talalay feels bouncy and Dunlop feels harder and firmer by comparison. Some prefer one and some prefer the other. Dunlop is getting a little harder to get but some places sell it and use it in their latex mattresses. Latex can be used for both a core or foundation, and as toppers, as it comes in various firmnesses which are referred to as ILD. A lower ILD is softer, a higher ILD is firmer. Usually anything under 22 ILD is considered "soft", 24-32 is considered Medium, and 36 and above is considered FIRM. This can vary a bit but that's a rule of thumb. Remember that Dunlop generally feels firmer than Talalay processed latex.

[**Note: See the posts by Cloud9 and Alexander below for more clarification on this, and Budgy has posted some excellent info on the differences, in other threads.]

***Memory foam is good for only the top half inch or no more than 2 inches if you go by what many members here have experienced. There are qualities of memory foam and usually the more dense memory foam, represented in pounds - such as 5lb density - is better because it gives more support. I recommend real Venus or real Sensus memory foam if you have to have it. However, many people seem to find it non-supportive and it seems to get more non-supportive over time much like pu or poly foam so keep that in mind. Tempurpedic is one of the best memory foams available and it works well for some people, but some find it not to be supportive enough after it breaks in. But you cannot buy 1" or 2" layers of Tempurpedic you can only buy a whole mattress with it.

***HR foam. HR foam can be bought via the net or from a foam store. If you live in a big city try finding a furniture maker or foam distributor instead of a retail store. I honestly don't know if most will sell to individuals but I have been lucky in finding a foam distributor which cuts and sells custom foam to manufacturers and they sell to individuals. If you can't find that you will pay more via a foam retailer. HR foam is rated to last 10 years. My experience is it is more likely to only last a couple years but if you're on a budget that might be good enough for now. Like all pu foam you can get it in various firmnesses or ild's. I like a 40-something ILD for a base and 24-36ILD for middle and top layers. With this you have to experiment to find what YOU like. But it's not too expensive; maybe 1/3 the price of latex. Here's a good thread about a cheap mattress made with HD (similar to HR) foam:

http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/i-love-my-mattress/10717-0-1.html

***M-Grade foam is another type of HR-type foam for mattresses but I have not been able to find a supplier for custom pieces. M-Grade foam cores or foundations are available in 6" cores and if you're going with pure foam - no springs - and don't have a lot of money for latex, then this may be your best bet. Get one without memory foam attached to it, just pure M-grade foam. There is some question as to exactly what this foam IS, as here on the west coast my foam suppliers have never heard of it and insist that it is "really just HR foam". I think it may be a truly different kind of foam and apparently it is only widely used on the east coast at this time and not made by Carpenter who makes most of the foams on the West Coast. If anyone can find the manufacturer or supplier (not a retailer) I'd be curious to know and can edit this post if I get more info on it. Again, while it may be rated for 10 years or something, don't really expect it to last more than a year or two, imho.

***Omalon foam is another one that is getting increasingly hard to get but what it is, is a special type of polyurethane foam that is compressed to make it less bouncy and to break down more slowly because it's already "pre-broken down" so to speak. Some love it for a topper though for some it is too hard. A higher ild of it could make for a good core or foundation or lower layer in a mattress with various layers of foam. But finding it in ILD's above 24 is not easy.

I am not a spring expert so maybe some others can chime in with more details about what works for them in terms of types of springs, and what to look for. There are many different types of springs: offset, pocket, Bonnell, and many new types. Many are made by Leggett and Platt. Personally if you're going for a lower budget mattress I don't think it matters all that much what kind of springs you use but if you try out some beds in stores and like the feel of one over another (I suggest you just try the firm ones), then go for those springs. It does seem that individual pocket springs have a much shorter life than others so keep that in mind.

How am I qualified to give advice on mattresses? Here's my "mattress resume" :

I have never sold mattresses. (That's a PLUS! )

I began coming to this forum around 2001 or 2002*. At that time I did tons of research on springs, foam types, etc.
I had been sleeping on a Simmons pocket coil and it turned to junk after less than a year and that's what brought me here.

After that, I tried out the following mattresses:
Tempurpedic - not supportive enough for me; your mileage may vary.
Spring Air - just didn't feel good
Sealy - felt okay for a year or so then lost support
Flobeds latex and memory foam - I did not like a latex core bed without springs. However many here on this forum have found an all-latex bed to be the answer for them!

I laid on many different models aside from these - these above were the ones I actually bought and returned.
Since then I've also slept on:
A Central American Juron (for one month) - pretty good mattress
Slept on an Englander for a week when I was in Vegas. Liked it. But now most of them suffer from the same as the S Brands - too much cheap foam in them.

After all that I did mattress surgery [see the old thread "Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!" here on this forum] and added foams on top of the Sealy springs. Tried variations of that for over a year and finally decided it wasn't working so I threw out the Sealy springs thinking they were bad and then concentrated on just foam without springs.

My wife's bed still has the Sealy springs and they were seemingly still good and as we tried various things on her mattress we eventually came upon a workable combination of foams to put on top of the Sealy springs. She is using this:

From top down:
**1" Venus (not sure if this is fake Venus or real Venus) foam
**3/4" latex. It's Talalay, not sure the ILD, maybe 24 or 28?
**1" HR foam. We have it zoned. I think she has Medium at top, Firm at the hips and firm at the feet
**1/4" memory foam - this came with the Sealy and I think is just there to protect the next layer up from the wire over the springs. Doesn't "add" anything to the bed.
Sealy Springs (CostCo "Fenway" model)

For my mattress, I bought an Englander Malibu Firm for the springs (12.5 gauge) and I quickly opened it up, took out the PU foam and put in latex and a little bit of HR foam instead of the cheap PU foam. Later I replaced all the HR foam with late. You can see my Englander Mattress Surgery thread by clicking on this link.

I hope this helps you in navigating your way through the complex maze of buying a mattress!

[*Under my name at the above left it says I joined in 2008 but in fact I joined around 2001 or 2002. I made a ton of posts at that time regarding foam and foam experimentation, but later, for some reason my membership info was lost and I re-joined.]

This message was modified Mar 19, 2010 by jimsocal

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