| OK, I'm calling on all you experts! Like most people considering the big switch to a latex mattress I've done tons of reading and research but still am not sure what we need. After reading through this forum (twice) I almost feel like maybe I'd like Dunlop better than Talalay, but I don't see a whole lot of discussion about Dunlop. I like a very firm mattress with very little "give". But, as a side sleeper I know I need some amount of softness on top. I hate conventional pillowtops. My weight is around 140 and my husbands around 240. I have back issues - low back pain, degenerative disk problems, lots of trigger points, yada, yada..... I have seen a couple of people say there's a big difference in the feel of Dunlop and they prefer it. So, is anybody still buying Dunlop or should I assume most of these posts are all Talalay. And does Dunlop only come in all natural or is there some blended? Tnanks for any help you can give me! |
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From all my readings about Dunlap versus Talalay process methods and from my experience with that one Dunlap topper ( I have not experienced any Dunlap latex cores that may be great for bottom support), it seems that the Talalay Process cleans out the latex better and produces more consistent pin holes that produce more consistent ILD's throught the latex core and that the firmer Talalay Latex has a very long life. Latex International says that Talalay Latex lasts longer than Dunlap Latex but Latex International manufactures Talalay Latex. :) I have selected posts from various sites below to help others make the decision. I am happy with the Talalay Latex cores I have from FloBeds that buys them from Latex International (but my topper is from Brylane Homes since I wanted a 1" topper that was soft made with the Talalay Processing.... Dave did sent me three toppers but they were all too thick since I did not realize then that I wanted a 1" topper) as long as it is a 36 ILD and above since I like firm beds. I can not sleep directly on a 44 ILD Talalay latex core since it is just too firm it makes a great base underneath my 1" soft Talalay Latex topper over my 39 ILD Talalay Latex core over a 36 ILD latex core over the 46 ILD latex core over a firm pine slat base for firm support. I have chemical allergies and am not having any problems with my Talalay Latex bed (maybe if I had Dunlap Latex from a reputable company in the cores I would have no problems either.... who knows since I only had experience with that topper that felt like it has no give and was uncomfortable for me and did not look as clean to me) once aired out the Talalay Latex cores for a few days and put them in the zippered cover, I have not had any allergy problems so the latex must be cleaned very well. I really feel that a 44 and 46 ILD Talalay Latex must be as firm as a Dunalap Latex core but have a little bit more resilience so their is less pressure points but most people have a topper over this so the difference probably does not matter much. Also as SleepEz says that the newer equipment used to process Dunlap Latex from a reputable company make the higher density latex very similar. But again since I have Talalay Latex and did not like the feel of that Dunlap Topper, I could sse the quality difference. But maybe it was just that particular Dunlap Topper? I know others have Dunalap Mattresses and love them. I just feel that you need to make sure whichever process your latex is if you buy a latex mattress, it is from a reputable company. ------------------------------------------------------------ Look for "Talalay" latex—a type of processing that results in more resilience and durability. -------------------------------------------------- What is Dunlap Latex? Dunlop latex is similar to Talalay Latex in that it uses both natural and synthetic latex in the compound. In fact, Dunlop process latex is the same as Talalay process latex, except that is simply pored into the mold the same way natural latex is and does not go through the vacuum or the freezing process that Talalay latex does. Because of this, Dunlop latex is not as consistent in feel and support as Talalay latex, nor can it be made to exacting firmness levels as Talalay can. ------------------------------------------- http://www.sleepez.com/faq.htm Are there different qualities of latex? (from the SleepEZ site) The quality of latex is dictated by two main factors (1.)the manufacturing process and (2.)the blend of natural and synthetic latex . Although latex has been the premium cushioning material for 60 years it was improved when we began to manufacture synthetic latex and blend it with natural latex. It enabled us to deliver a wider range of firmness and increase the life of the product. The two different manufacturing processes are the Talalay Process and the Dunlop Process. Traditionally the Talalay process, although more costly, has delivered a higher quality with regard to durability and a wider range of firmnesses. But, technology has narrowed that advantage to where any difference between the two processes is marginal at best. The major benefit of the Talalay process is in the softer firmness. The combination of natural more elastic latex with synthetic latex, which has a stronger cell structure, creates a springier latex in the soft firmness. Thus, it has delivered the longest lasting consistent comfort level, especially in the softer firmness. The mattress cores are produced in individual molds, and undergo vacuum, freezing, heating, and with an extensive washing process to eliminate any proteins in the natural portion. With this process we can produce gentle soft latex mattress cores and latex pillows that will still retain long lasting comfort and durability. The Dunlop process has less steps in the production chain, is also produced in molds as well as open conveyers, does not have the vacuum and freezing steps and produces latex with a denser, less springier feel. Again let me say that technology in the past few years has all but erased that difference. Still it is safe to say that the Talalay process produces a noticeable difference in the softer firmness but in the medium, firm and extra firm the two process are virtually the same in feel. ------------------------------------------------
---------------------------- Dunlop or Talalay Latex Mattress?
There’s a lot of confusion about what Dunlop and Talalay mean. They are neither types of latex nor types of rubber trees, but types of processing. Dunlop is a process that’s been around since 1929 and involves the traditional manufacturing method. Talalay is the name of a newer process. Here’s how they differ. DunlopWhen Dunlop latex is made, the serum is frothed in a centrifuge, poured into a mold, covered and baked at a low temperature. The natural sediments in the latex settle to the bottom of the mold, which yields a layer that is slightly firmer on the bottom side. TalalayIn the Talalay process, after the latex is poured, the mold is sealed and air is vacuumed out. Then the mold is flash-frozen to stabilize the material. This produces a more consistent cell structure, as some of the weaker air bubbles are vacuumed out. Because of the added steps, Talalay latex is more expensive than Dunlop. All Talalay pieces wider than 40" have glue seams. Simalfa is a safe, water based glue. Which is better?
Having worked with both Dunlop and Talalay latex, we can say with confidence that neither is superior to the other. What matters more is how it is handled out of the mold, how it is packaged, shipped, and ultimately, what is in the end product. ----------------------------------------- Manufacturing Talalay Latex Steps with pictures http://www.latexdirect.com:80/manufacturing.htm ---------------------------------------------- Talatech Latex provides more pressure relief than Dunaalp Latex & is more consistent with the ILD throughout the latex core & more consistent cell structure http://www.latexinternational.com/pdf/Latex%20Intl%20Step%20Up.pdf |
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Lynn Thanks for the informative post. There is so much info out on the web its really hard to know who or what you can trust. But I did want to note one thing about the SleepEZ post. He is clearly comparing natural Dunlop to synthetic Talalay (he says "The major benefit of the Talalay process is in the softer firmness. The combination of natural more elastic latex with synthetic latex..." I am not sure if/how this changes if you compare to natural Talalay. Also, this FAQ still says "We use only Talalay latex for all our mattresses and mattress toppers." Since thats not true anymore, I think its safe to say that this FAQ is at least a bit stale, so some of their opinions might have changed. Also, I wanted to point out at least one source that seems clearly pro-Dunlop, because most of the ones you pointed to seemed to be either neutral or pro-Talalay. This is from the Habitat Furnishing blog, June 19, 2007. I have no idea if this site can be trusted (although I did note that they do sell both types of latex, so that seems like a good sign). The reason I picked this quote is that he hits on a lot of points that, if true, would impact my upcoming decision... "When I compare our Dunlop mattresses side by side with a Talalay bed, to me it so obvious, the main observation being that you tend to sink more in the Talalay material, vs. the Dunlop Natural material, which keeps you suspended if you will, on top of the mattress. Side sleepers especially seem to respond better to the Dunlop method since when you apply a lot of weight to the latex in a limited area (imagine side sleeping being like a knife on edge, vs. a belly or back sleeper, where the weight is more evenly distributed), the pressure point reduction and weight distributing qualities of the latex being clearly superior. You don’t bottom out on it, and you can easily turn from side to side effortlessly. This is important when you consider that a common complaint of memory foam users, and a few Talalay process mattress owners I have spoken with, say that the sinking effects of this materials cause you to feel like your stuck in a rut, and you can actually wake up as your body fights to wrestle its way out of the sinkhole in your bed." I don't mean to seem argumentative or anything, I suspect the differences aren't really that great. I just wish this was all a little clearer so I could decide already (I am SICK of my stupid Tempurpedic mattress)... Steve This message was modified May 26, 2008 by st3v3k4hn
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Steve, No argument from me. I just wanted to share about both processing methods so you and others can know facts. My Talalay latex mattress never bottoms out since I only used ILD that were very firm and super firm with only a thin cushion topper over it. I have a feeling if I had a Talalay latex topper over firm Dunlap latex cores, it would feel very similar but I like the fact that Talalay Latex is supposed to be more uniform throughout the cores. Even my friend who is very heavy feels my bed is suportive and comfortable and he sleeps on a very firm conventional bed at home with no pillow top. I am just feeling you are basing your opinions on what others say and not what you know so you really need to maybe ask for a sample of the Dunalp Latex in a 44 ILD versus the Talalay Latex in a 44 ILD and do the same with a 36 ILD and a 32 ILD and then just make a decision since I am sure either process latex you get will be wonderful compared with a hot chemical memory foam bed (sorry for those not allergic that love these beds since I know of people that adore memory foam but I am allergic to it). Also make sure you get split cores for more combinations. This message was modified May 26, 2008 by Lynn2006
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Well I am largely basing my decision on Sean at SleepEZ. He seems process-neutral but definitely recommends the Dunlop for us heavier folk. I don't think samples are super helpful - I had a sample of memory foam before I ordered my Tempurpedic, a lot of good that did me. I think what I am going to do is order a dunlop topper from SleepEz (split soft / medium) and use that on top of my Tempurpedic for a while. Assuming I like it I will upgrade to the SleepEz 10000 model (it turns out this is actually CHEAPER than buying the bed outright). If I don't like it, I am stuck with it - no returns - but I could probably use it somewhere anyway. I will post my experiences here if / when I do this... Thanks again... |
| Since it sounds like your Temperpedic bed is fairly new and you are not allergic to it but do not like the heat it generates, buying a latex topper may be a good way to try out latex. That is what I did before committing to my latex bed. I bought an Overstock Latex 1" topper and slept on the floor with it for a few months and loved the feel. |
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st3v3k4hn wrote: "When I compare our Dunlop mattresses side by side with a Talalay bed, to me it so obvious, the main observation being that you tend to sink more in the Talalay material, vs. the Dunlop Natural material, which keeps you suspended if you will, on top of the mattress. Side sleepers especially seem to respond better to the Dunlop method since when you apply a lot of weight to the latex in a limited area (imagine side sleeping being like a knife on edge, vs. a belly or back sleeper, where the weight is more evenly distributed), the pressure point reduction and weight distributing qualities of the latex being clearly superior. You don’t bottom out on it, and you can easily turn from side to side effortlessly. This is important when you consider that a common complaint of memory foam users, and a few Talalay process mattress owners I have spoken with, say that the sinking effects of this materials cause you to feel like your stuck in a rut, and you can actually wake up as your body fights to wrestle its way out of the sinkhole in your bed."
That being said, I'm not really sure how a latex topper is going to work over a Tempurpedic mattress. If the visco stays cold you might end up with a very firm feeling bed. If it warms up you may end up in a sink hole since the latex will conform to whatever surface is beneath it and that would really give you a backache. If you do go for it, be sure to report back and let us know how it works out.
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That is a good question.... I question I have pondered on sleepless painful nights. I too have a memory foam bed (Sealy) and feel your pain (the one who also has this bed), have you tried flipping the mattress over and then try different toppers? That is where I am, but my story doesn't have a happy ending yet. I tried many things, but I have not tried the Dunlop because it weights much more and would cost more to ship (my thoughts anyway). Also I can't find any of it locally to look at, and it costs more doesn't it? Cloud 9, Where can you buy just 1" of Dunlop? I have 2 layers of the Natura topper under a mattress cover, and under my featherbed, and I still have hip pain after so many hours (like Cloud9 mentions). So I thought the Dunlopillo layers would help, but apparently either the mattress cover makes it harder, or you do bottom out. I wish us all good luck in finding a solution. |
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cloud9 wrote: ...That being said, I'm not really sure how a latex topper is going to work over a Tempurpedic mattress. If the visco stays cold you might end up with a very firm feeling bed. If it warms up you may end up in a sink hole since the latex will conform to whatever surface is beneath it and that would really give you a backache...
I also tried flipping the tempurpedic so the memory foam side was down. Theoretically the Tempur mattress is 3" memory foam over 5" firm polyu foam. With just the wool topper on the polyu side it was even firmer than the memory foam side. I will probably try both sides again as soon as I get my topper, and yes I will let you all know how I like it. But I suspect I will upgrade to the full SleepEz bed pretty quickly. I just wanted to test the Dunlop, and the soft / medium firmnesses, before I completed the order (like I said earlier, I don't think small samples help much but these 2 full size samples should tell me alot and help me determine the optimal firmnesses to order). By the way I did order the dunlop topper (1/2 soft, 1/2 medium) from SleepEz today, so I should hopefully have it soon... Steve |
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st3v3k4hn wrote: Well, I am currently sleeping on my Tempurpedic with a 1.5" wool topper. This greatly reduces the memory foam aspect of the bed, so I don't sink in as much and I don't feel too warm. But it is too firm, especially when I first get into bed and its still cold. I also tried flipping the tempurpedic so the memory foam side was down. Theoretically the Tempur mattress is 3" memory foam over 5" firm polyu foam. With just the wool topper on the polyu side it was even firmer than the memory foam side. I will probably try both sides again as soon as I get my topper, and yes I will let you all know how I like it. But I suspect I will upgrade to the full SleepEz bed pretty quickly. I just wanted to test the Dunlop, and the soft / medium firmnesses, before I completed the order (like I said earlier, I don't think small samples help much but these 2 full size samples should tell me alot and help me determine the optimal firmnesses to order). By the way I did order the dunlop topper (1/2 soft, 1/2 medium) from SleepEz today, so I should hopefully have it soon... Steve I tried to put toppers on the memory foam side and had the same experience, it is too firm. How long did you have the Tempur mattress before it went bad for you? i had mine probably 6 months before it started giving me pain. What thickness of toppers are you getting? Do they charge more for shipping? I hope it works out for you : ) I think think the poly foam under the memory foam is not useable for sleeping on! But maybe with the Dunlop it will be. I am so frustrated with this horrible bed too! I have wasted so much money on bad beds and toppers. I don't have anymore $ to waste. |
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Thanks for that interesting comparison, Steve. I think you're on to something. I have a couple inches of firm and medium firm Talalay latex in my zippered coil mattress and it wasn't until I put the Dream Coil Omalon topper on that I really felt more "suspended", as you described it. The Omalon is guaranteed for life---never to flatten. So, now I have the best of both worlds---latex and a firmer top (maybe a sensation similar to the way Dunlop process feels. st3v3k4hn wrote: Lynn<p>Thanks for the informative post. There is so much info out on the web its really hard to know who or what you can trust. </p><p>But I did want to note one thing about the SleepEZ post. He is clearly comparing <em>natural</em> Dunlop to <em>synthetic</em> Talalay (he says "The major benefit of the Talalay process is in the softer firmness. The combination of natural more elastic latex with synthetic latex..." I am not sure if/how this changes if you compare to natural Talalay. Also, this FAQ still says "We use only Talalay latex for all our mattresses and mattress toppers." Since thats not true anymore, I think its safe to say that this FAQ is at least a bit stale, so some of their opinions might have changed.</p><p>Also, I wanted to point out at least one source that seems clearly pro-Dunlop, because most of the ones you pointed to seemed to be either neutral or pro-Talalay. This is from the Habitat Furnishing blog, June 19, 2007. I have no idea if this site can be trusted (although I did note that they do sell both types of latex, so that seems like a good sign). The reason I picked this quote is that he hits on a lot of points that, if true, would impact my upcoming decision...</p><p>"When I compare our Dunlop mattresses side by side with a Talalay bed, to me it so obvious, the main observation being that you tend to sink more in the Talalay material, vs. the Dunlop Natural material, which keeps you suspended if you will, on top of the mattress. Side sleepers especially seem to respond better to the Dunlop method since when you apply a lot of weight to the latex in a limited area (imagine side sleeping being like a knife on edge, vs. a belly or back sleeper, where the weight is more evenly distributed), the pressure point reduction and weight distributing qualities of the latex being clearly superior. You don’t bottom out on it, and you can easily turn from side to side effortlessly. This is important when you consider that a common complaint of memory foam users, and a few Talalay process mattress owners I have spoken with, say that the sinking effects of this materials cause you to feel like your stuck in a rut, and you can actually wake up as your body fights to wrestle its way out of the sinkhole in your bed."</p><p>I don't mean to seem argumentative or anything, I suspect the differences aren't really that great. I just wish this was all a little clearer so I could decide already (I am SICK of my stupid Tempurpedic mattress)...</p><p>Steve |