Mattress Forum

i'm curious about that one too.  a ventilated m.f. topper on amazon they claimed sleeps cooler because of air channels (kind of looks like the holes that are in latex toppers).  and i.d.k. if you're aware of s.l.a.b.'s "celsion" latex toppers.  they are supposed to sleep cooler than their standard l.i. talalay toppers. a bit more expensive though, & alot more expensive than m.f.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LQB250/ref=s9_simp_gw_s0_p79_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=19M8QB84P8BJ7920K7AQ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

http://www.sleeplikeabear.com/celsion_talalay_latex_toppers.html

I also have 1" mem-cool from Overstock.  It seems less hot than Sensus memory foam.  Again, not necessarily cool but less hot.

I have tried an Outlast mattress pad and wool mattress pad.  They seem no better or possibly worse than a regular poyester mattress pad.

Unfortunately, the most comfortable foams (memory foam and latex) seem to retain heat and eventually radiate it back to the sleeper.  Probably due to their material and density.  I am not sure a lot can be done about it.  The coolest surface I have found is a firm innerspring.  A waterbed would probably be the best, since you can regulate the temperature.  I am also wondering if a thicker mattress pad (which might help breathe and dissipate heat above the foam) might help as well.  I will probably try that soon.

What are your heat issues?  What kind of mattress?

thanks for the f.b. sandman, celsion does sound promising.  & for someone who cranks their a/c near max to sleep (not much left on the thermostat to further compensate for any warmer a bed), i would pay the extra ~15% to save every degree possible.  i only wish it were available in the ultra firm ild's like their regular latex toppers. no point in that for s.l.a.b. though since most will not want that firm of a top layer, & that's almost the only layer you'd be investing in the cooler foams for anyway. 

re: "outlast"- i was just laughing at the safety disclaimer of it in Sealy's "cool springs", their version of m.f. they claim sleeps cooler.  so not only does it not work, but tell me if this sounds scary: "Because Outlast technology is micro-encapsulated, it will never come in contact with you... it's completely safe. "   so the reason it's "safe" is because they prevent it from contacting us- that's actually implying that the substance itself is NOT safe (hope those micro-capsules don't rupture)!  & that was a direct quote from sealy's marketing jargon too. 

Last night I had 3" of memory foam over 6" of XF latex.  The max temperature inside the top of the m.f. hit 89.8 degrees (I cut a small hole in the m.f. to put in the thermometer sensor.  I had 2" of memory foam from Costco that I purchases several years ago on top of 1" of mem-cool (4 lb.) from overstock.  This was no hotter than my convoluted Talatech latex topper which gets up to about 91 degrees.  Last night was colder than most, so not sure how much affect that had. 

By the way, this configuration was fairly comfortable for me.  I like this as much, if not more than having all latex.  I find that memory foam reduces the pressure points a little better than latex.  Personally (and through measurement)  I didn't find it any hotter than all latex.  The slight downside is that m.f. forms to the body, making it a little harder to move. So, a semi-poor man's Tempurpedic might be to put 3" of decent memory foam over 5-6" of firm latex.   Latex is not cheap, but should last longer and feel better than most other foams underneath.

The Celsion has heated up to around 88-89, so I can't say it is significantly cooler.  It might taking a little longer to hear up as well, which is a plus.  Tonight I am going to fold the 1" Celsion in half to get 2" of Celsion on top. 

Cooler still would probably be too put 3-4" of foam over springs.  My guess is that the hollow nature of the springs will allow more heat to dissipate through the bottom.  With an all foam/latex  base, it is harder for the heat to dissipate from below. 

In terms of the mattress cover, I think the ones on innersprings probably dissipate the heat better.  I don't really have much evidence to back this up though.  I have found that when I put a wool filled mattress pad on top of the wool filled mattress cover it does seem warmer to me.  This could be wool being "warmer in winter".  Not sure how it knows what time of year it is though.  So, the cotton/wool filled mattress cover on the flobed might be slightly warmer (in winter at least) than whatever they use on most innersprings.  At some point I will take the mattress cover off again and use 2 poly filled mattress pads to see if that is any different.

Not totally what they put in the innerspring covers.  I think it has some polyester.   I would think polyester is warm, but  I have found that the poly filled mattress pads are no warmer than others.   A thick layer of cotton might be best, but I have not tried that.  An all cotton mattress pad (not that thick) does not seem to make much difference.

oh wow, you used a thermometer?!  that's great, now i feel more confident celsion will actually save those few degrees at least.  & no worries if it doesn't even do that much, because $50 isn't too bad vs. the price of the topper itself & entire mattress setup. mine would be on a new spring mattress, which is going to be cool anyway obviously. but not only that- mainly i want to save its factory topmost layers (marvelux x 4 & m.f.) from getting dented/ as long as possible.

thanks for sharing your data sandman.

I would say that the Celsion is cooler to the touch as well.  That is my perception at least.  It is probably worth it vs. regular Talatech, since the price difference isn't that much.  It does cost a lot more than memory foam, so I want to test a bit more to make sure it is worth it.

What kind of mattress do you have?

At this point, I can't really reject the hypothesis that the talatech latex, the Celsion and the memory foam that I have are all the same heat wise.  Certainly the differences are quite small. The Celsion did record the lowest temperature by an insignificant amount.  My perception is that it is slightly better, maybe because it takes a little longer to heat up.  I can't really record a timeline, to be sure.  Folding it in half may also affect its ability to dissipate the heat out of one side.

It is also possible that measuring the temperature the way I am, does not capture the total aspect of heat build up.  Probably more temperature readings for different (more spread out) locations and different depths would be necessary to get a more accurate picture.  Alas, that is beyond my capabilities right now.  However, the aspect that does seem to bother me is the feeling of having a heat pad right below the midsection of my body.  I do think I am capturing that aspect pretty well, because that is the location where I am measuring.  I have demonstrated that the top layers of foam heat up from about 68-70 degrees to 90 degrees after a few hours.

I think I will put the Talatech layer on top again tonight to see how that compares with similiar room temperature.

I may try to measure dispersion by moving the temperature sensor to a different location.  It might be interesting to put it one layer lower as well to see how much that is heating up.

My conclusion seem to be that is probably much more important what is under the comort layer (air filled springs will probably disperse heat better than "solid" latex or foam).  Possibly what covers the comfort level is important as well (cotton vs. wool vs. polyester vs. whatever else). 

However, it seems like there has not been a lot of research on this, so I am just guessing.  One study I have seen says that innersprings disperse the heat better.  Based on my experience that seems to be the case.  However, it may have to be a firm innerspring, and it may be just the fact you are sinking in less.  

Right now the heat is not a huge issue for me (at least in the cooler weather), but I definitely would prefer less of it.  It mainly seems to bother me when I wake up after being in bed 2-3 hours.  It is possible I will wake up like that on any surface, so hard to say how much it is affecting me.  Worried what summer might bring though.

Anyway, I have to decide soon if I want to go back to try an innerspring.  It seem like that is the only potentially cooler solution (beside a water bed which is not in the cards for me).  I am leaning in that direction, but I am getting tired of having to keep dealing with this.  Hardest purchase of anything I have made in my life. 

I am not totally sure if an innerspring will solve my problem.  It is possible that the ones I have slept on the past have been cooler because they just had a thin layer of cheap low density padding.  So, they are not the most comfortable.  Upgrading to higher quality more dense foams might bring the heat issue right back.  Trial and error may be the only way to find out. 

I think you are right that there is a tradeoff between comfort and warmth.  A firm innerspring with minimal padding will be cooler, but not that comfortable.  I went and tried a few innerspring today, and I don't like them as much.   If I add more comfortable layers, latex or memory foam, I may be back to where I am right now heat wise.

The last few nights I wake up around 1-2am and feel a bit warm, but then I go back to sleep and I am fine.  Even with my old bed I would probably would wake up around the same time.  So, I am not sure if the innerspring will make much difference, except possibly in summer. 

I am going to add a thicker mattress pad this week to see if that changes things at all.  Also, there is something called a bedfan, which blows some air under the sheets to keep you cooler.  Sounds kind of weird, but it does work for some people.  In summer that might be something I could use.

just another sealy posturepedic- the cheapest reserve firm that still has their signature line's coils.

but if i had the budget, it would easily be a p-grade stearns & foster in ultra firm.  their lowest model that has the dual spring setup- smaller tighter coils within larger taller coils, so dual action shock absorption & 2x as many in the same area. all marvelux & high performance/high density foam on top & more of it than the sealys.  just too expensive & too beautiful to butcher now or later for any reason.  unless a toddler were somehow trapped in there or something else highly unlikely.  they do feel incredible though.

i just have to wait until the costco sale is over or runs o.o.s. because it's hard to buy  anything else while that's an option.  you can hardly buy 6" of raw dunlop latex without a cover for what they're charging for their 10" queen.

I also saw that foamsweetfoam has 3" strips of 100% natural talalay latex for $400 (queen).  No cover though (you can buy a cheap terry cloth at sleeplikeabear),  so if you don't want dunlop they are not a bad way to go.  Can't compete with the Costco price though.

From what I can tell the Celsion does not seem to be any cooler than the Talatech.  Maybe in summer it would make a difference, but I am skeptical at this point.

so i went to the roomstore this week. they had both that one at $1629 but with "unconditional price match guarantee" (we'll see, they match internet prices just not 'direct from warehouse' type sellers), and they also had the sealy signature firm.  the latter was a special designation of the signature line called "rejuvinate" (?), which is the same, just with some special covering ("aloe treated").  but i matched up all the layers in his paperwork on it, & except for the case & tag, layer for layer it's the exact same thing as the signature greenhurst firm for $909.  roomstore has it for $1099, & they will not price match that much. 

anyway, the whole point is for me, BOTH of those models feel so nice out of the box, that it would be hard for me to put any topper over them in the first place.  even if it helped long-term protect the layers of foam in the mattress itslelf.  so i think i'm looking at an either0-or situation.  all foam, the costco latex or d.i.y.- OR -a good spring mattress.   the most expensive i've found that i'd evne consider cutting into for surgery are the sam's serta firm sets for ~$700 (only ~500 13ga coils), but they felt less supportive to me vs. even the sealy.  much less the s&f- everything about that thing is awesome though.  much more impressive box springs, dual coil system, all quality foams etc.

I have configured my flobed a bit firmer and put on a thick poly filled mattress pad.  That seems to have made it slightly cooler.

Last night I had F over XF over XF with no convoluted cover.  Probably a bit firm, but still okay.  Next I am going to try XF/F/XF and with the convoluted cover flipped over (for you flobed people, I think flipping over the convoluted layer makes it a bit firmer feel if that what you are looking for).   I may also try my wool mattress pad over the the thick poly one to see what that is like (heat wise).

However, I will be out of town for the next 10 nights, so not sure what I will be sleeping on.  Happy Holidays to all of you out there!

otherwise, if  i weren't scared of those pitfalls, i'd get the sealy signature greenhrust firm in    q. for $909 from u.s. mattress.  i bet those guys would get the s/queen foundation for me. i just hate to meet a truck.  i'd rather truck it myself.  i'd have to stay awake all day. unless they could guarantee 8a-12p delivery (which would turn out to be 3pm anyway),  i'll just have to pay $200 more & deliver it myself (but also get the rejuvinate aloe encasement which i won't lie feels great). you know split queen foundations are going to be TINY.  narrower than twin/1/2king etc. 

so considering the above, maybe i should spurge on the s&f estate u.f., & see if he'll price match $1539 for a s/queen (from $16xx somethign) & f. latex altogether.

because the only type of sealy foam i want is the h.d./h.p. sealy foam or marvelux.  no "sealy foam", "super soft sealy foam", "convoluted sealy foam" etc. & for only $200 more this has no mf. (vs. sears S.& F.).

the s&f. that would rock is the lucas park/deacon ridge/maribel(?) at r.s. 

well wroth $1500+ if you can swing it.  f. toppers or latex in that case.  i don't want to interfere iwth such perfect finishing on the mattress of either that or a signature/rejuvinate with any type of topper.  so it's either my recipe for a foam bed or an o.o.b. sealy that i know will work.  <$1200.  easy decision.

well i thought about getting a serta for cheap, at sam's who will always back you up for years.  even if the company warranty doesn't.  they're getting abused in that regard now, so they are getting more strict (no more 3 years on televisions- people were just upgrading t.v.'s every three years!). 

but their serta mattresses' springs feel too WEAK even though their coil gauge is heavier (13 /14 vs. 14 in sealy).  i guess that many fewer springs make a bigger diffrence (530 vs. 782).  but i'd rather have sealy's cheapest than the particular $645 serta firm i tried. i sink right through those springs.  but the difference between $1100 & $1550 from the sealy rejuvinate signature & s&f u.f. i.d.k.  Not in feel, only in other measures of quality.  the double springs. higher quality box spring. i.d.k. but it looked like hardwood framed box springs.  very nice anyway.  very firm comfort layers.  & beautiful embroidery, encasement, carry handles!, piping, heavy soft cotton sleeping surface etc.  very nice.  so maybe it is worth it.  i have to think seriously about making that happen.  i'd do it if they match with brady & verns or something furniture (ie. NOT a mattress "factory direct" shipper which rooms store will NOT match), for $1529 for a split queen,  & it's that much less more that will be hard to deny.  & hard to TOP with raw foam...

dfs

So, I am not totally clear on what you are trying to get?  The ultra firm S&F estate?  I agree that they is very firm and supportive, but too firm for me.  I was not able to find out all of the foams in the S&F estates, since I cannot find info. online about exactly what is in them.  I would have to call back a salesmen to get the info.