Mattress Forum

I have not had any experience testing out that mattress. I see someone on the forum tried some of Brooklyn's products and found them to be somewhat on the soft side. Can't vouch for that, but the link is below. It their products tend to be on the soft side, you might want to shift toward the firmer end. You can always add a soft topper (like Lynn has talked about a lot) but you can't make something firmer by putting something on top. Anyway, check this out:

http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/been-several-stores-hours-spent-reading-reviews-brain-has-turned-jelly-help/18160-0-1.html

Please keep us posted if you do or don't end up trying Brooklyn's mattress and good luck with your decisions!

Better in what way?

"Considering that the top layer can be chosen as soft, medium, or firm, do you think the Dunlop would be too firm for us?"

"Better" and "too firm" are very subjective; what may be "better" or "too firm" too someone else may not be the case for you.

"I do worry some about the FBM pieces as the comments seem to be that their ILD ratings are inconsistent"

Inconsistent in what regard? From what I've read ILD's are "inconsistent" in general.

"Considering that the top layer can be chosen as soft, medium, or firm, do you think the Dunlop would be too firm for us"

Honestly, you're the only one who can determine that. Now from what I've read, stomach sleepers and people with back pains tend to choose firmer sleep surfaces than those who have no back issus and sleep on their side and back.

The UPS delivery man will only take it off the truck, it's up to you what to do with it after that. I managed to get the mattress up the stairs and set up by myself, but I definitely don't recommend it. I think the total package weighs in at 210 lbs and UPS sends a special truck out to deliver it so it may take a little longer.

It may take you a little while to get used to and adjust to the 7 zones, ie finding an optimal sleeping position and such.

All and all it's exactly as advertised, just a little firm for me as is.

JW

dunadan, glad to hear of your experience!  A few follow up questions for you . . .

Instead of ordering talalay toppers to go over the 10" plush, did you consider doing an exchange to the 10" model with the "soft" topper?  Was that just too much hassle?  The money back guarantee should have allowed you to do that for free where buying more toppers is obviously costing you more.

Please explain more about the "7 zones" and how you adjust them?  From looking at the website, I thought this was a sealed enclosure mattress.  Are you saying the mattress has a zippered case and you are moving zones around?  Again, I'd really like to hear more about this.

It is interesting that dunadan finds the 10" plush on the firm side where the poster weewillwinky refers to found the 8" base model too soft.  Perhaps that only furthers need2sleep's point about the subjectivty associated with many of the terms we use here to describe mattresses.

I don't want to make this thread too much about FBM (probably better to do that in my other thread) though it does factor in as it is my comparative option at this point.  weewilly is pretty much right on about my inconsistency comment.  Also of concern was what the salesperson with FBM told me when I was asking about how I planned to construct my mattress.  He said the 20 ILD toppers felt pretty much just like the 32 ILD toppers.  Either he is wrong about that or there truly is inconsistency within their own latex as that should not be the case at all.  

Anyone have any general comments about an all Dunlop setup vs an all Talalay setup?  I've read somewhere that the Dunlop process cannot be used to make softer ILD latex.  Editing this now because the site does claim a 2" Talalay layer, so it is not all Dunlop.

Thanks again! 

I don't know how they can sell that Allure 10" at that price.  What is the source of the latex?  Their 8" green version which claims to be organic has similar pricing to other online shops that offer similar quality.  Perhaps bamboo covers are less expensive than cotton.

Other than the 60 day money back guarantee, I didn't see any warranty.

Google "brooklyn bedding" and you'll see this mattress is sold elsewhere at websites that have the same look as latesmattressshop.com: http://cheap-latex-foam-mattress.com/manufacturer/brooklyn-bedding.html.  I can't find many user reviews.

I would spend some time on the phone talking to sales people about these mattesses.  Oh, and it appears that they have coupons.  The "About US" page had a code for 5% off.  It appears that these mattresses are some exclusive locally made mattresses.  It's really hard to know the quality of Joe's latex foam.  Many of the other online sellers tell you the source of their latex. Perhaps they will send you a sample?  You should also ask about return policy!  They don't state it.  You might have to pay all shipping fees.  And they don't say you can swap pieces if you are not happy with what you get.  And they don't tell you the ILD numbers of their foam! 

Well the lady I spoke with at FBM stated the 32ILD had a bit more firm feeling than the 20ILD. According to their site, all of their latex has a 5.6lb density.

neeed2sleep, I definitely took his comment with a grain of salt.  Freedom 1955 who built a mattress from their latex reported that switching from the 20 to the 32 layer made the bed feel firmer.  I look forward to hearing about your experiences when you receive your latex from them hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks,

Cliff

p.s. - just found this statement on the homepage:

“If you buy any mattress from The Mattress Shop and you’re not 100% completely satisfied within the first 60 day, simply return it for 100% of your investment back. We’ll even pay the shipping costs so you won’t have to.”

That’s more than fair isn’t? With an offer like this on every mattress we offer…

There’s no way for you to lose!

Instead of ordering talalay toppers to go over the 10" plush, did you consider doing an exchange to the 10" model with the "soft" topper?  Was that just too much hassle?  The money back guarantee should have allowed you to do that for free where buying more toppers is obviously costing you more.

While hauling the mattress upstairs I inadvertedly punctured a small hole in the bottom of the mattress, so I wasn't going to try and send it back at that point.

Please explain more about the "7 zones" and how you adjust them?  From looking at the website, I thought this was a sealed enclosure mattress.  Are you saying the mattress has a zippered case and you are moving zones around?  Again, I'd really like to hear more about this.

It is a sealed enclosure, I was referring to the Comfort Zones. You just have to lay on it properly to take advantage of the different comfort layers.

It is interesting that dunadan finds the 10" plush on the firm side where the poster weewillwinky refers to found the 8" base model too soft.  Perhaps that only furthers need2sleep's point about the subjectivty associated with many of the terms we use here to describe mattresses.

Yeah, I'm sure it's pretty subjective. If I had to do it over I might have went with just the 8" base model and add toppers, or just the Allure with the default soft. Even with having to add toppers I still find this to be a good deal. I like the idea of having a dunlop base and adding Talalay layers in 1" layers to suit to taste.

I don't want to make this thread too much about FBM (probably better to do that in my other thread) though it does factor in as it is my comparative option at this point.  weewilly is pretty much right on about my inconsistency comment.  Also of concern was what the salesperson with FBM told me when I was asking about how I planned to construct my mattress.  He said the 20 ILD toppers felt pretty much just like the 32 ILD toppers.  Either he is wrong about that or there truly is inconsistency within their own latex as that should not be the case at all.  

Anyone have any general comments about an all Dunlop setup vs an all Talalay setup?  I've read somewhere that the Dunlop process cannot be used to make softer ILD latex.  Editing this now because the site does claim a 2" Talalay layer, so it is not all Dunlop.

Thanks again!

Other than the hassle of repacking and sending the bed back, I don't see whats to lose.

There are lots of policies not mentioned on the web site.  Like what happens after 60 days?  And can you swap layers if you are not happy with firmness? I would be more likely to take a chance if the store were local and returning the mattress would not cost a huge amount of money.  But $1000 is a lot of money and I would like to feel like I had seen enough reviews to know I was not making a mistake.

From reading this forum, I would not hesitate to purchase from Sleepez, Flobeds, Savvy Rest.  I have seen enough people talk about experience with these companies.  Other companies have been mentioned, but as they would all be mail order for me, I don't see sufficient savings to justify risk.  I haven't considered DIY, but there seem to be several places where you can buy foam and covers.  I've looked at the web sites for some of those vendors and they seem to be reasonable and state their policies up front.  Perhaps I am different than most people, but I am nervous about web sites that lack basic information.  I want to know what I am buying.

Every mattress I have tried out felt great, even the spring mattresses.  What you really want to know is what all of these mattresses will feel like 5, 10, 15 years down the road.  And you can't be assured that the model made 10 years ago is the same as the one made today.  Most of the reivews here are for new or relatively new mattresses.

Well I made that comment assuming TheLTFM was fine with the 60 day policy. I don't believe there are any layers to swap in that bed setup. Although TheLTFM  hasn't stated a budget, by the looks of the options he has given, his budget may be tight. I agree with you in regards to the three well known and tested sites you listed............... But if you don't have the money they're asking then you can only go the alternative route. A king at those three sites would cost me $2500; I just don't have that kind of a budget for a bed.

Perhaps dunadan can tell us why he didn't return the mattress or exchange a layer?

"While hauling the mattress upstairs I inadvertedly punctured a small hole in the bottom of the mattress, so I wasn't going to try and send it back at that point"

That's what I am thinking as well, pending the answers I get to my questions.  With the statements on their website coupled with credit card protections, they would not survive a chargeback if they didn't honor the 60 day trial period as stated.

Sleepswithcats does bring up a good point about the warranty beyond the 60 days and I plan to ask them about that.  However, I don't put much stock in long-term warranties as companies tend to always look for an out.   

Having to lay on it properly scares me a little bit as I've never thought about a proper way to lay on a bed.  Is the feel that noticable that there is a wrong way to lay on this bed?  Are you a stomach, side, or back sleeper?
 

I agree. 5-10yrs down the road, I think any company will be reluctant to refund or exchange a purchase in that price range. I've just checked the tracking on my order and its in my city out for delivery. I will take pictures and post them. It looks like I won't be able to insert them into the post unless I host them somewhere and use the url

I'm a side and back sleeper. With the zones you would want to lay on it in a way that your body (head, shoulders, back, small of your back, rump, legs etc.) are seated in the proper zones. It's not really that much of a problem. If you sleep with your head a few inches from the headboard, most people will be okay. From what I understand the vast majority of adults pretty much have the same torso length, it's the leg length that differentiates our heights. I found myself in the beginning inching my way one way or the other to get the best fit, but it's no big thing. I can see some people preferring it and others not wanting to be bothered or just not liking it, so take it into account before you buy this mattress. Even with free shipping on returns, it's gonna be a hassle to rebox this beast back up and send it back. 

JW

On the 6" core, they build these with either 38 or 32 ILD natural Dunlop.

The next 2" is customized to the purchaser based on their prefernces and can be Talalay or Dunlop.  The Talalay is Talatech from LI (their blended Talalay product) and can be chosen in 19, 24 or 28 ILD's.  If you go with a 28 ILD that could also be chosen as Dunlop.  He basically admitted that the 7 zone sleep system is more marketing than anything.  There is a 7 zone topper out there made from Dunlop by Latexco (http://store.mattresses.net/3-inch-latex-mattress-topper.html ), so I'm thinking if you go with Dunlop you might get this type layer.  I did not confirm that with him.  I'm guessing if you go with Talalay for this layer, you won't get the 7 zone system.  I'm wondering if dunadan has this layer in Dunlop and that is why he found the mattress too firm.   dunadan, do you happen to know the ILD's of your layers and the type of latex used?

The next 2" is listed as quilted natural wool and natural latex.  He said that they are not using wool in there except in the more expensive green options which they aren't really making anymore.  He said the quilting has a "little" latex, some fire retardant batting, and the bamboo fabric top.  He said this layer finishes 1.5" - 2".  I am somewhat disappointed by their not using wool in this layer. 

For me, he recommended that I not go with the 12" pillowtop model since I am a stomach sleeper and back pain sufferer.  I appreciate the restraint from upselling.  He recommended the 38 ILD Dunlop core + a 24 ILD Talalay topper for my setup.

He confirmed that their 60 day return period does cover shipping both ways.  However, there is no warranty whatsoever after the 60 days.  He said with this being an all latex mattress, there wasn't a need for a warranty because of the durability and at this price point they just weren't going to provide that.  This is not a deal killer for me as I posted above.

He mentioned that they experimented with doing a removable core/topper mattress setup similar to others, but didn't like how that went.  He also mentioned that to him, latex pieces that are glued together feel slightly different to loose stacked pieces.  Any of you guys experience anything like this?

He confirmed that they are the sister company of R&S Mattresses, the Phoenix local reailer with multiple stores.  I have some comfort in that to have as many locations as they have, they must be doing a fair volume and they have maintained an A+ BBB rating.

All in all, this is still an option for me, but I'm not sure the bang for the buck is as impressive as I first thought.  6" of Dunlop + 2" of blended Talalay are not exactly high end components.  And the quilted layer is not as impressive as I first thought.

Any reactions from the group on this info? 

http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/foambymail-diy-mattress-pieces-arrived-today/19139-0-1.html

I think this is reasonably priced for what you get and has reasonable quality latex.  If you read other websites carefully, they have the same issue: a 10" bed is 8" latex and 1.5" of top, rounded up to 10".  I think the dunlop core and talalay top is common configuration.  Isn't that what the Habitat Furnishings 8" latex mattress is?

Did you ask if LatexMattressShop offers swapping after purchase?  Probably not.

It's not clear what the top 1.5-2" consists of.  A little latex, a little wool, bamboo fabric.... What exactly does that mean?  Seems like an 8" bed with something on top.

As for advice on which way to go?  Warranties, smorranties.  But I think you are buying an 8" mattress here.  A fair comparison to FBM is 6" dunlop with 2" dunlop/talalay, an enclosure.  I don't know if enclosures have wool quilted into the top or not.

You have a difficult decision to make and there seem to be tradeoffs.  Sorry, I don't have a recommendation to make.  I'm happy that my skepticism lead to more information.

How far back did you dig in the archives to look at DIY mattresses?  And I'm sure there are other people who have done DIY latex mattresses.  Did you check some of the sites that have lots of DIY instructions?  You might find some useful information there.  www.instructables.com is one such site; there are probably more.

Yep - Habitat's 8" bed is Dunlop + Talalay (though they use 100% natural for both layers vs the blended Talatech with latexmattressshop).

No swapping, but he did say that if the bed is too firm, they will send a 2" soft topper free of charge to soften things up in hopes of the buyer keeping the mattress rather than returning it.  Presumably you could still send the whole thing back if you didn't like it with the topper.

Definitely an 8" bed.  LI does make a quilting latex called Evercloud that I believe is what they are using in the top 1.5 - 2". I don't think this quilted latex would make that big of a difference.

I have gone back a good bit here on some DIY threads, but plan to keep digging.

Thanks for your help!

I'll say this about my experience in mattress hunting: Quickly after I found this site, I knew building my own mattress was my best option. I've learned that buying a mattress which I couldn't alter the layers would be risky for me. My choices were strickend by my small budget, so FBM caught my eye quickly. I read the negative reviews they had and determined most of them were related to cosmetics and the other negative comments were also made against the other top places. My current mattress is 15" and I spent about $650 which is half of my budget. This gives me the oppurtunity to add a 2" topper or another foundation if I want and still be under my budget.

I would like to keep the whole shebang (mattress, foundation, mattress protector/pad) in the $1,500 to $1,700 range.  I've narrowed primarily to LatexMattressShop or FBM.  If I go the FBM DIY route, I'm still trying to decide on the best mattress protector or case.  I'm leaning towards the St. Dormeir pad (http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/st-geneves-st-dormeir-wool-mattress-pad-review-day-3/13490-A-1.html) available now from flobeds for $159.

Right now, I'm leaning back towards FBM over LMS for a couple of reasons:  all natural latex vs. the blended talalay used by LMS, modular approach for getting it just right, like the idea of at least trying at first to sleep directly on the latex, your positive review of what you received from them, and like the thought that in 10 years I could pull a layer or two out and completely refresh the mattress with the assumption that the core will be pretty untouched.

With FBM, right now I would order this setup:  6" 36 ILD core + 2" 32 ILD mid-core + 2" 20 ILD topper (all 100% natural talalay).  I could swap the 20 and the 32 if I wanted to experiment with a firmer feel. 

FBM cost on above:  $1,216

Foundation (http://www.amazon.com/Thick-Foundation-memory-latex-mattresses/dp/B002RVCSRI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1305859732&sr=8-3): $229

Mattress Pad/Protector:  $159 - $239

(I'm also considering this bamboo temp. regulating pad instead of the Dormier:  http://www.cuddledown.com/product/mattress-pads-protectors/temp-regulating-pads-protectors/ultimate-comfort-bamboo-mattress-pad.do?sortby=newArrivals#    

Grand Total:  $1,604 - $1,684  (vs. $1,530 for the LMS route + the Dormier cover.  That extra $100 buys me all talalay, all natural, and 2" more of latex)

I'm having too much fun over analyzing everything to order right now!   Seriously, I feel like I'm still learning stuff, but my goal is to order one way or another by the end of this week.  Of course, my 14 year old crappy inner spring mattress with featherbed on top is sleeping great right now for both my wife and me since we flipped it.  She mentioned maybe we don't need to buy a new mattress after all.  I told her I had way too many hours invested in this not to do something!

I started to get the feeling I was over analyzing as well; thats where I got those question from. You're in a good situation right now given you are currently sleepy comfortably, So no matter what I say take all the time you need. I've heard flipping a mattress could give another 3-6 months of good sleep.