COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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<P>Okay, after another miserable night of lower back pain continuing into the day, I MIGHT have found my answer to why my mattress isn't giving me the support my body is craving. After clearing off the top of a daybed I have in my computer room, I laid on it. FIRM! It's actually the very same mattress my daughter has on her daybed. I've softened hers with a layer of the Overstock latex with a plush fiber bed on top of that, all tucked under a nice mattress pad. She sleeps fine.<BR><BR><BR>Anyway, I put an Overstock latex topper on top of this other daybed and proceeded to take a little nap on it. I first changed the bed to make it fresh. Well, well. My back starting feeling better already. I was actually able to lie on my back and side and feel like I was supported well in all positions without pressure points. I know the latex topper helped to cushion everything. It's funny how it feels firmer on an extra firm bed. That same topper on my other bed seemed to sink in.<BR><BR><BR>So, this daybed was purchased by my same mattress guy around 12 years ago. it doesn't get much use since it's in my office usually collecting "junk". So, yes, the mattress is still firm without body impressions. I'm sure my daughter's has more wear and tear, although she's 15, so much of it was when she was small.<BR><BR><BR>The mattress itself is an offbrand made in Oakland, CA at a place called Estates Mattress Co. Or at least distributed from there. I'll give them a call and see if they still have the specs. I'm curious to see what the innerspring coils are. I'm thinking they're your basic Bonnell coil. I'm not sure of the gauge, but because of the firmness it might even be a 12 and 3/4. Definitely a 13. Not sure of the coil count. I'm sure the foam used in this mattress isn't super-high quality, but on the other hand, it's not a pillow top and it does have two sides. Not too heavy, either. Easy to flip. I'm beginning to think the lower-priced mattresses, while not as "purdy and plush" are actually more practical and versatile. You can add or subtract toppers as needed. And, I bet some of the PU foam inside is the same on all models.<BR><BR><BR>So, I really wonder if part of my mattress issue is the type of coils I have. My mattress guy really felt the LuraFlex (not the highest count, either) would be a good match for me. Why? Supportive and yet, conforming. A medium support. I questioned that later, but now I'm wondering if I should have looked into it more and maybe insisted he give me a firmer innerspring system. Or at least a LuraFlex with the maximum coils to make it even more firm. I'm just thinking that "conforming" is a naughty word for my back. I just think I can make it as conforming as I want merely by adding different comfort layers over the firm base. <BR><BR><BR>In the meantime, I looked online and found this site. http://www.exceldistributors.com/-strse-27/innerspring-mattress,-queen-mattress/Detail.bok<BR><BR><BR>(they also sell through Amazon. Free shipping both places). I happen to have a $50 rewards certificate for Amazon, so I might just order it there. In case the link is garbled here, it's Excel Distributing. Click on Home Bedding link. I'm looking at the Deluxe FIRM innerspring mattress. No boxsprings. I have a virtually brand new one as it is. On Amazon I can get this mattress delivered for $149. I'm really considering it. Gee, I've bought mattress toppers adding up to more than that. If I just can't stand it, I can always sell it on Craigslist for what I paid for it. It's got a 10 year warranty and they use Bonnell coils. Hey, for this price and I really liked it, I would buy a new one every year just to have it "like new". LOL<BR><BR><BR>After sleeping on my spare daybed tonight and hoping that it's similar to the one online, and IF I like it, I'll try adding the fiber bed topper and see if it makes it even nicer, but still feeling firm. And, if I still like it, I might first of all contact my mattress guy and ask him if he still sells that mattress or if he at least knows what's inside. If it's similar to the one online and he doesn't have anymore or charges too much, I might just go with the latter.<BR><BR><BR>So, does anyone feel they've had success with the good old fashioned Bonnell coils with a decent gauge and coil count? I'm beginning to wonder if too many mattress companies are trying to re-invent the wheel. So many options and comfort layers and coils and this and that out there now! It's mind boggling...and, in my case, BACK boggling!<BR><BR><BR>I'll keep you updated! <BR><BR> P.S. I really did type nice paragraphs here. So if my post shows up without them, I tried!<BR><BR></P> This message was modified Sep 22, 2007 by BeddyBye
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Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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Everything you said made perfect sense, Cloud9. And, actually, I think I'm just embarrassed to approach my mattress guy with my latest dilemma. He probably thought we ironed out the problems early on. We did with some of them. But I honestly feel that this LuraFlex unit isn't for me. Maybe if he had put the highest coil system in there it might feel more supportive. I'm going to bite the bullet and just ask him. <BR><BR>What you said about your back needing that rigid support really sounds like me. Sure, I like a little padding to make it more comfortable. But overall, I want my springs and support layers to be FIRM. Like you said, I can always add layers as needed.<BR><BR>Last night I decided to stay in my own bed just to give it one more chance. I had taken off the Cuddle Bed (oh so cozy fiber topper) earlier in the day and left a nicely padded mattress pad on. So I figured I would see if that made a difference. It didn't. I still woke up with a very painful lower back. What happens is during the wee hours of the morning when I try to turn I feel like it's hard because it's "conforming" so much. So, it puts pressure on my lower back and feels excruciating to turn to my side.<BR><BR>I agree about that cheap bed. I really would be sily to spend the money for it. Like you said, I should probably try a FIRM Bonnell innerspring unit. I'll ask my mattress guy if he can order one for me in the highest coil count and lowest gauge. Okay, I realize it's not considered a premium coil. But, hey, if I have the ability to change my coils and foam, at least I should be able to get a good solid 5 years out of it before replacing them. At least the rest of the bed will be in decent shape. And maybe the coils will, too. I'm thinking to save money I'll just leave the LuraFlex in my husband's side and give him all HR polyurethane foam to firm it up more. He seems to like that configuration.<BR><BR>So I'm gathering the "evidence" and information to show my mattress guy. I want to ask him if he thinks a higher count LuraFlex would be supportive enough or if I should just skip the open, offset coil and go with the thicker and lower gauge Bonnell. <BR><BR>I HATE this! I'm going to be having surgery on Oct. 8 and will be recuperating, so the least I can have is a comfortable mattress, right?! <BR><BR><BR> cloud9 wrote: I feel so bad for you. Your custom made mattress sounded so wonderful I was ready to move up&nbsp;north to Santa Cruz just so I could buy one!&nbsp;<BR><BR>I don't know much about Luraflex innersprings, but when you said the word "conforming" I suspect that like the pocket coils which didn't work for you either, the problem --or part of it-- is that your back needs rigid support and it's not getting it from either system. I know my back always feels better when I lie on my old double-sided extra firm mattress. It has Bonnell coils and no foam layers--just cotton batting over the springs. It's too hard to side sleep on without adding additional toppers, but my back just loves the firm, rigid support.<BR><BR>I also&nbsp;wonder whether&nbsp;you have&nbsp;too many toppers on your mattress.&nbsp;My new "luxury firm" mattress also has Bonnell springs, but it also has 3 or 4 inches of&nbsp; PU foam over them, and&nbsp;while my hips and my shoulders like it better,&nbsp;I think the foam inteferes with the level of support I get from the springs and my back is not as happy.<BR><BR>I would recommend firm Bonnell coils for you, although I'm not sure&nbsp;how long a $149 mattress&nbsp;is going to last before it starts to sag or poke through the ticking. These things are usually intended for guest rooms where they&nbsp;barely get used, but it might be a cost-effective way to test&nbsp;out whether Bonnell springs will work for you.&nbsp;<BR><BR>If you go for it, try layering on the toppers slowly. On my old super firm mattress I had a fiber pad (not a bed), an egg crate pad in the middle and 2" of 4lb memory foam on top. For me that struck the perfect balance between comfort and support.&nbsp;When I first got the memory foam I&nbsp;simply layered it over the <EM>two</EM> egg crates that were already on the bed, but after a few days my back began to hurt so I took one off. Too much foam and I&nbsp;was&nbsp;losing support. Just removing that one little layer made all the difference.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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I am at a loss as to why my posts show up this way. Someone mentioned another browser. How would I do that? I'm on AOL and just use IE which comes with it. And, since my computer is presently "sick", I'm using my husband's. I don't want to download anything on it. Are others here on AOL? Do they post straight from that?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> haysdb wrote: BeddyBye, I hope you don't mind that I reformatted your post. I hope it didn't lose anything in the translation.<BR><BR>Something especially weird about your posts is they contain <span style="font-weight: bold;">&amp;nbsp;</span> which is a non-breaking space. How would that get in there? |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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You can use AOL as your Internet Services provider (ISP) and still use a separate browser and visa versa. But Internet Explorer should work just fine, so I don't think that is the problem. But hold on, are you using the browser "built in" to AOL? I haven't used AOL for a long time, but their browser was a lobotomized piece garbage back when I did. It did not play well with others. We will all be happy when you get it figured out. :-) |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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Don't be embarassed to go back to your mattress guy. It's not like you're just being difficult. You're in pain! Run the rigid support concept by him and see what he says. My feeling is that Luraflex just isn't right for you and that wouldn't change even if you got a firmer unit. Let him get you a firm Bonnell unit. Just because it's been around forever doesn't mean it's crap. It's just a coil design that supports your body differently than pocket coils or Luraflex. Sometimes the old stuff works better than the new stuff. That's why it's been around for so long. Good quality Bonnell coils should last at least 15 years and outlast the comfort layers you put on top of it. But I kind of think the coils are only half the problem.I know you've been taking off comfort layers like the fiber bed, but I'm wondering, from my own experience with extra firm latex, if that 44 ILD layer isn't exerting too much pressure on your back and that's why you wake up in the middle of the night in excruiciating pain. The same thing would happen to me when I was trying to sleep on latex. I just ached so much when I tried to move I actually groaned in pain! Never had that problem before--or since. I'm used to waking up with a stiff back but that was torture! Are you sure you don't have a touch of osteoarthritis? It sure sounds like it, but only your doctor can say for sure. I know you love the feel of latex but it might be contributing to the problem, When you get the Bonnell springs installed in your mattress, if you are still experiencing pain, just try removing the latex. Besides that extra firm foam exerting a lot of pressure against your back, latex is very conforming, and if the layer is thick enough it will just interfere with the rigid support you're trying to achieve with the springs. I really hope you can get this resolved before your surgery, so yes, you can at least recuperate in comfort. |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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BeddyBye, I thought of something last night after a trip to a local custom mattress factory. This company uses only two different coil units in all of their mattress, from least expensive to most expensive, and both are the same open-ended (unknotted Bonnell?) coil design, with one using a heavier gauge wire. But the important part is, the way they adjust how firm a mattress is, isn't by using different coil units, but rather they lay a dense fiber pad over the coil unit to make it firmer. In extreme cases (to support a sleeper of 500 pounds), they will use two of these pads. You could make your innerspring unit firmer simply by using one of these fiber pads on top of the coil unit and under all of the comfort layers. My own back confirms that the same coil unit can feel soft and luxurious or as firm as any mattress I have ever laid on. BTW, talking with a custom mattress maker was quite interesting. This one offered a comfort guarantee. One time within 60 days they would open up the mattress and reconfigure it. The most common thing they do is adjust this fiber layer, either adding one or removing one, although they can also adjust other layers. The cool thing is, you get back the same mattress, reconfigured, so nothing gets wasted. |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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haysdb wrote: BeddyBye, I thought of something last night after a trip to a local custom mattress factory. This company uses only two different coil units in all of their mattress, from least expensive to most expensive, and both are the same open-ended (unknotted Bonnell?) coil design, with one using a heavier gauge wire. But the important part is, the way they adjust how firm a mattress is, isn't by using different coil units, but rather they lay a dense fiber pad over the coil unit to make it firmer. In extreme cases (to support a sleeper of 500 pounds), they will use two of these pads. You could make your innerspring unit firmer simply by using one of these fiber pads on top of the coil unit and under all of the comfort layers. My own back confirms that the same coil unit can feel soft and luxurious or as firm as any mattress I have ever laid on.<BR><BR>BTW, talking with a custom mattress maker was quite interesting. This one offered a comfort guarantee. One time within 60 days they would open up the mattress and reconfigure it. The most common thing they do is adjust this fiber layer, either adding one or removing one, although they can also adjust other layers. The cool thing is, you get back the same mattress, reconfigured, so nothing gets wasted. I've been experimenting with the twin mattress that has the Bonnell springs. It also says it has a 15 year warranty. But that was about 12 years ago. Anyway, I managed to call the manufacturer of this particular mattress. Even though they don't make that one anymore, he could tell a bit about it. 336 Bonnell coils. He thinks about 13 gauge. Well, after sleeping for a couple nights on it I still experienced back pain.I came to realize that it might be a bit TOO firm. Sigh. I tried different toppers. The lower ILD 1" latex layer wasn't too bad, actually. But since my back was still sore from the other mattress I wasn't sure what was causing it. So the next night I took off the latex and just put a thin, but plush fiber bed type pad on it. I wanted to try it with no latex or foam on top. My back still hurt. I had to get up and go into the guest room and finish out my sleep there. Of course, by then my back already hurt so I couldn't properly test THAT bed. (My 20 year old Serta which I LOVED back in the mid 80s up until 1992 when I got married and got a new bed.) I NEVER had any back problems with that! Slept like a baby. I was also younger and thinner. I know it has Miracoils (continous coils). Last night I decided to sleep on it from the very beginning. Well, I didn't toss and turn all night with back pain. Sure it's a full size which is more roomy. This morning I had a wee residual back pain but not the excruciating pain I had with my other two mattresses. Now I'm wondering if I should go with a Miracoil if my mattress guy can get it. I spoke to someone at Leggett & Platt and she said they might be able to get their hands on a Miracoil. It's a proprietary brand for Serta and maybe others. What do you think? It seems if my old Serta felt so good for about 5 or 6 years and is still kickin', maybe I should stick with it? |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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quote haysdb]BeddyBye, I thought of something last night after a trip to a local custom mattress factory. This company uses only two different coil units in all of their mattress, from least expensive to most expensive, and both are the same open-ended (unknotted Bonnell?) coil design, with one using a heavier gauge wire. But the important part is, the way they adjust how firm a mattress is, isn't by using different coil units, but rather they lay a dense fiber pad over the coil unit to make it firmer. In extreme cases (to support a sleeper of 500 pounds), they will use two of these pads. You could make your innerspring unit firmer simply by using one of these fiber pads on top of the coil unit and under all of the comfort layers. My own back confirms that the same coil unit can feel soft and luxurious or as firm as any mattress I have ever laid on.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;BTW, talking with a custom mattress maker was quite interesting. This one offered a comfort guarantee. One time within 60 days they would open up the mattress and reconfigure it. The most common thing they do is adjust this fiber layer, either adding one or removing one, although they can also adjust other layers. The cool thing is, you get back the same mattress, reconfigured, so nothing gets wasted.<BR><BR>haysdb:<BR><BR> haysdb, your post really talked to me! I'm beginning to think that a lot more goes into making a mattress feel "just right" than how I'm going about it. Sure, I have the capability of unzippering my mattress cover and arranging the layers to suit my comfort. And, I'm working with high quality materials. However, just like you mentioned in your post, it might just mean the difference between a fiber pad or something else tucked into a readymade mattress that I don't have access to. Or even know exactly what it takes to change the feel. I know my mattress guy has tried having me use 4 very thin HR foam sheets to use for lumbar support. And he did say something small like that can really change the whole feel of a bed. So, it stands to reason the dense fiber pads you mentioned COULD really alter the way a mattress feels, regardless of coils, gauges and counts.Okay, that still doesn't do me any good unless I can find that magic mix of material that will give my mattress that feel. I'm not even sure my mattress guy can get some of these materials, although something tells me he probably can if he's in the business. I'm also wondering if he'll think I'm obsessed with finding nirvana inside my mattress. Well, heck, I AM!! But, now I'm just wondering if it's possible to attain the same feel that I've experienced in certain readymade mattresses (most of which will probably wear out too soon....but feel like Heaven at first. Or if I can find something even close to the more expensive brands. l THINK I wish I was wealthy and could afford to buy what feels good TODAY...right NOW and forget about tomorrow. That's what a friend of mine did recently. She stayed at a Westin in fell in love with their Heavenly bed. So she ordered it. LOVES it! But, even though some of us warned her that hotels often change out their beds more often, so hers might wear out sooner....she didn't care. As long as it feels good NOW, that's all that matters. Disposable mattress. Sigh. Hey, if I had that option, I'd probably be on the phone ordering one of those for myself. In the MEANTIME....the saga continues.... This message was modified Sep 26, 2007 by BeddyBye
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Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
| Why not go with the disposable comfort layers? Throw them out every year or two. It is probably healthier that way too. |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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BeddyBye, I think you're on track with the guest room bed. It seems to provide the correct level of support for your back. All it needs is a little tweaking to make it more comfortable. Now that you know what works for you your best bet would probably be to see if your mattress guy can find the same kind of innerspring unit for your current mattress. And what is it with all those 20 year old beds that are so much more comfortable than anything on the market today? I don't get it. My 20-year old guest room mattress is exactly the same. Apparently simpler is better than all the so-called innovations today. Too complicated. When I was a kid my whole family slept on latex (Dunlop) mattresses. They were about 5" thick and came with a regular box spring. No one knew about ILDs. You went to the store. You lay down. If it felt comfortable you bought it and slept happily ever after. Configuring a Talalay latex mattress kit was like rocket science, trying to hit just the right level of support and in the end I couldn't even sleep comfortably on any combination of ILDs for more than two nights. |
Re: COULD the problem be the type of innerspring coils I have?
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cloud9 wrote: BeddyBye, I think you're on track with the guest room bed. It seems to provide the correct level of support for your back. All it needs is a little tweaking to make it more comfortable. Now that you know what works for you your best bet would probably be to see if your mattress guy can find the same kind of innerspring unit for your current mattress.</p><p>And what is it with all those 20 year old beds that are so much more comfortable than anything on the market today? I don't get it. My 20-year old guest room mattress is exactly the same. Apparently simpler is better than all the so-called innovations today. Too complicated.</p><p>When I was a kid my whole family slept on latex (Dunlop) mattresses. They were about 5" thick and came with a regular box spring. No one knew about ILDs. You went to the store. You lay down. If it felt comfortable you bought it and slept happily ever after. Configuring a Talalay latex mattress kit was like rocket science, trying to hit just the right level of support and in the end I couldn't even sleep comfortably on any combination of ILDs for more than two nights. Cloud9, I had to laugh at your explanation of buying a mattress when you were a kid. That's so true. Someone bought it for us and we slept on it. End of story. Even now, though, when I try to "talk mattress" with people I know, they look at me like, HUH??? Most of the time they don't even know what brand mattress they sleep on. Or what its made of. I would assume they're comfortable because I certainly never hear them complaining or commenting about it. Maybe I'm just the only one around here who is obsessed with her mattress! I'm serious! LOL I do remember one thing, though, when I was a child. My first mattress had such a pit in the middle, I literally fell in. I'm not sure how long I slept on it until my parents bought me a new one. I can still see us in the store buying it in 1958. Kids can put up with a lot more than us adults, though! :) |