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Can anyone explain this stuff from Stearns and Foster's web site? ( http://www.stearnsandfoster.com/Estate_Product.aspx ) They state: "Divinely Indulgent Sleep Surface. Working in tandem with our IntelliCoil design, our new proprietary cushioning materials (called Variable Response Technology®) give you relief where you feel the most pressure while you sleep: on your shoulders, hips and knees. No more tingly hands. No more painful backaches in the morning." Sounds great, but I could not find any specs as to what their proprietary cushioning materials are. Is it PU foam? Is it at least HR or M-grade? or is just cheap PU? Or is there no pu, only latex? (I doubt that) Does proprietary mean they won't tell us, or does it mean only that they have a patent or something on it? Also, they apparently make their own springs and their springs look interesting to say the least... but what gauge are they? . Are they individual pocket coils or regular type - more like Bonnell? Hard to tell from their description. I wonder how many coils per Queen... Anyone who knows, I'd be curious of the above questions, particularly whether or not they use pu foam in them, and how much pu foam would be found in their firmer mattresses? This message was modified Sep 6, 2009 by jimsocal
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For a description of the "Intellicoil" and answers regarding it, see my newest post.  The Variable Response Technology means that they have a single layer of HD PU foam that has variable ILDs across the surface. It's designed to be more supportive in your lower back and softer near your shoulders and knees. Stearns isn't the first to do this. Other manufacturers have been putting in "zoned" beds for some time. The difference is that Stearns does it with a single piece of foam instead of multiple pieces glued together. The effect is a more seamless (heh) transition between zones. |
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Alexander wrote: For a description of the "Intellicoil" and answers regarding it, see my newest post. The Variable Response Technology means that they have a single layer of HD PU foam that has variable ILDs across the surface. It's designed to be more supportive in your lower back and softer near your shoulders and knees. Stearns isn't the first to do this. Other manufacturers have been putting in "zoned" beds for some time. The difference is that Stearns does it with a single piece of foam instead of multiple pieces glued together. The effect is a more seamless (heh) transition between zones. Yes, I saw your other post just after I posted this, unfortunately or I'd have put it there. Thanks for answering. That sounds like a decent design for a mattress and I am at least a little impressed by their using HD foam in zones. So for those looking for a ready made mattress they don't have to do surgery on any time soon, maybe S&F is a viable alternative. I can't say for sure because I've never used one, but if I were looking to spend that much $, I might consider this brand. The idea of the Intellicoil springs at least sounds like it might be a good design. Nevertheless, I like the idea of buying good springs and then just replacing the foam inside the mattress with foam of my own choosing, and being able to adjust it. But I recognize that many people - probably most people - balk at the idea of becoming a mattress surgeon. But it's a lot cheaper and - like I say - more easily customizable to fit one's own needs. Basically I created my own zoning with HR foam (similar to the "Variable Response Technology" but with a seam) which is probably better quality than the HD foam S&F puts in, and then put latex and high quality memory foam on top, for a total of around $280/Twin, which would mean about $560 for an E. King. On a personal note, Alexander, do you sleep on an S&F? And if so, which one and how long have you slept on it, and would you buy it again? If not, what mattress DO you like best? |
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I currently sleep on a Simmons Black pillowtop called a Rosalyn. The Blacks have individually pocketed triple braided coils (each coil is actually three smalled braided coils) with a net gauge of 11.75. The pillowtop is composed of 3" of Talalay Latex covered in cashmere and alpaca loft for cool summer sleeping. It's surrounded by a high density 3" foam encasing. It is insanely heavy. If you broke into my house I would let you take my wife before I'd let you take my bed. |
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Alexander wrote: I currently sleep on a Simmons Black pillowtop called a Rosalyn. The Blacks have individually pocketed triple braided coils (each coil is actually three smalled braided coils) with a net gauge of 11.75. The pillowtop is composed of 3" of Talalay Latex covered in cashmere and alpaca loft for cool summer sleeping. It's surrounded by a high density 3" foam encasing. It is insanely heavy. If you broke into my house I would let you take my wife before I'd let you take my bed. Alex: Saying that you would allow a thief, after breaking into your house, to steal your wife rather than your mattress is a pretty graphic statement. But I'll take you at your word. I thought after all of the detailed information about Sealy and Stearns and Foster mattresses that you must work for them. I am surprised to learn that you're actually sleeping on a competitors mattress. What kind of work do you actually do.You seem to be quite knowledgeable about mattresses, let me ask you your opinion about foundations for latex mattresses. I have actually started a new thread on this subject with more explanation than I will give here. What is your opinion about the necessity for a ventilated foundation for a latex mattress. I ask this because I have a good foundation but it does not have ventilation as it is for a water bed. I have gotten conflicting opinions on the necessity for a ventilated foundation for a latex mattress. I would like to use my current foundation and save the money, but not if it could harm my new latex mattress that I just ordered. |
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eagle2 wrote: Alex: Saying that you would allow a thief, after breaking into your house, to steal your wife rather than your mattress is a pretty graphic statement. But I'll take you at your word. I thought after all of the detailed information about Sealy and Stearns and Foster mattresses that you must work for them. I am surprised to learn that you're actually sleeping on a competitors mattress. What kind of work do you actually do.You seem to be quite knowledgeable about mattresses, let me ask you your opinion about foundations for latex mattresses. I have actually started a new thread on this subject with more explanation than I will give here. What is your opinion about the necessity for a ventilated foundation for a latex mattress. I ask this because I have a good foundation but it does not have ventilation as it is for a water bed. I have gotten conflicting opinions on the necessity for a ventilated foundation for a latex mattress. I would like to use my current foundation and save the money, but not if it could harm my new latex mattress that I just ordered. eagle2, you didn't ask me, but I'd like to give you my feedback anyway if you don't mind. I think it depends a lot on where you live. If you live in a very humid climate and don't have air conditioning on a lot, then you probably need slats so air can get in. But if you live in a drier climate (California or Nevada for example) then it's probably not necessary unless you live right on the beach where a lot of fog rolls in at times. That's just my opinion based on things I've read and heard. Maybe Alexander knows more... Alexander, I used to HATE Simmons because I had one of their cheap, bad ones with the old style glued coils. However after hearing your description I must say that sounds like it could work! Do you know what ILD and type of latex the topper is on your Simmons? |
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Jim: Thanks for your response regarding the foundation for a latex bed. Your ideas make sense to me, however I am going to look forward to seeing the bottom of my waterbed once I get it removed. If there is not problems with mildew then I will feel pretty safe since a waterbed should be more of a problem than a latex bed. Interesting question. One thing about these slat foundations….the cost! Some as high as $800.00. I have found one that is fairly popular for $250.00 the VersiFlex, or some such name. |
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Someone on the list bought one of these beds and asked me what I thought...I did some research and was told that the PU foam inside had different ilds because of the holes drilled in it(like latex holes...)...the more holes, the softer. The springs sound intriguing to me. Anyway, he bought one of these mattresses and did not like it at all. Just a FYI. I've mentioned before that so many things in life are simply gimmicks...and I wonder how many of these crazy springs and special foams are such. Kait |
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You're right, the S&F marketing terms sound good -- but performance didn't live up to the hype on the top of the line mattress we bought we bought 3 years ago. The plush level cushioning formed a noticeable hump in the middle within 1.5 years and now the mattress is unusable to us. Also the current issue of Consumer Reports lists S&F as the next to worst brand in their customer satisfaction survey so I don't think we're the only ones with this experience. Sad since they used to be considered the gold standard and still charge that way. |
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twalkman wrote: You're right, the S&F marketing terms sound good -- but performance didn't live up to the hype on the top of the line mattress we bought we bought 3 years ago. The plush level cushioning formed a noticeable hump in the middle within 1.5 years and now the mattress is unusable to us. Also the current issue of Consumer Reports lists S&F as the next to worst brand in their customer satisfaction survey so I don't think we're the only ones with this experience. Sad since they used to be considered the gold standard and still charge that way.
-Alex |
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So, Alex, do you have any ideas about why their older style mattresses failed for so many of us? Kait |
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I do not. I noticed an increase in the warranty exchange rate for mattresses purchased during that time as well. It was enough for Stearns to do a redesign. If I had to make a professional guess I'd say it had to do with the coil on coil design. Poor support for the top coils. -Alex |
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Alexander wrote: If I had to make a professional guess I'd say it had to do with the coil on coil design. Poor support for the top coils. -Alex Interesting. That inspired me to go to do a search on S&F coil on coil design. I found this at their website: http://www.stearnsandfoster.com/mattressStyle.aspx It appears they are still using a coil on coil design. This certainly makes it look incredibly impressive and build well enough to last 20 years. The fact that it's lasting 1.5 years for low weight people must mean that it is some foam breaking down. Perhaps it's the layer of foam between the coils, although it really feels like it's more of the top padding. But this is helpful in giving me something else to consider when I open up the mattress. p.s. I sure wouldn't buy another S&F mattress for at least 3-5 years from now to find out if they've really solved their durability problem. Especially considering their standard for warranty replacement has left previous customers out of luck (and money). This message was modified Sep 14, 2009 by twalkman
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twalkman wrote: Interesting. That inspired me to go to do a search on S&F coil on coil design. I found this at their website: http://www.stearnsandfoster.com/mattressStyle.aspx It appears they are still using a coil on coil design. This certainly makes it look incredibly impressive and build well enough to last 20 years. The fact that it's lasting 1.5 years for low weight people must mean that it is some foam breaking down. Perhaps it's the layer of foam between the coils, although it really feels like it's more of the top padding. But this is helpful in giving me something else to consider when I open up the mattress. p.s. I sure wouldn't buy another S&F mattress for at least 3-5 years from now to find out if they've really solved their durability problem. Especially considering their standard for warranty replacement has left previous customers out of luck (and money).
You have to keep things in perspective here. Even when a bed has a high enough warranty rate to incite a manufacturer for a redesign it's still probably under 5%. Even with the older coil design, just because the Stearns didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for most people. My son sleeps on the current Intellicoil latex pillowtop and has nothing but positive things to say about it. One of many reasons you should never make a buying decision based on customer reviews. -Alex |
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Alexander wrote: The current Estate Stearns and Foster coil is not coil on coil. It's coil IN coil. -Alex It appears the link I got from google above is to their old design and no longer actively linked on their site (makes you wonder what else is hidden there). Alex: Question: Would you guess the permanent body depressions that started appearing within a year are attributable to a break down in the springs, or a break down in the foams used in the padding? And do you think the depressions will continue to get deeper and deeper, or the depressions have sunk to their natural level and the rest of the mattress won't because it doesn't get constantly used? |
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twalkman wrote: It appears the link I got from google above is to their old design and no longer actively linked on their site (makes you wonder what else is hidden there). Alex: Question: Would you guess the permanent body depressions that started appearing within a year are attributable to a break down in the springs, or a break down in the foams used in the padding? And do you think the depressions will continue to get deeper and deeper, or the depressions have sunk to their natural level and the rest of the mattress won't because it doesn't get constantly used?
If I had to guess I'd say you have a King size mattress, yes? -Alex |
| No, queen size. |
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Hey, Alex; So, the S and F used coil ON coil before their re-design? I never opened up that mattress, just gave that one year old, $1,850 one away. I have seen coil ON coil recently, promoted like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Looks like a short pocket coil on top of some other coil. It really felt like the foam crapped out to me, tho. First, the body impressions(king). Then I slept in the middle for awhile. Used my husband's side(he only is here a few nights a week so I can sleep wherever I want to most nights), then found myself curled all the way to the edge. I finally figured this was NUTS when I woke to find myself curled around the very edge and across the top...last place that had any cush left. That was very sad. Kait |
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Hi Kait, if you look at the S&F picture from the link above you can see the coil on coil design. There is a thin padding layer between the two sets of coils. I'm wondering if that is what is giving way and causing the body impressions to form so quickly. Either that or the coil on coil design is just too unstable. All in all, it now seems like technology for marketing sake instead of a real improvement. Just more complexity that isn't needed. Btw, I talked with someone at one of the well regarded companies that sells Talalay. He got very quiet when I mentioned I was considering opening opening the mattress and replacing the padding. He obviously thought I was nuts. When I asked why he said it is probably a spring problem not a padding problem. He said to keep sleeping on the mattress for another year or two until the mattress meets the warrantee requirements -- which made me think he was nuts. |
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twalkman wrote: Btw, I talked with someone at one of the well regarded companies that sells Talalay. He got very quiet when I mentioned I was considering opening opening the mattress and replacing the padding. He obviously thought I was nuts. When I asked why he said it is probably a spring problem not a padding problem. He said to keep sleeping on the mattress for another year or two until the mattress meets the warrantee requirements -- which made me think he was nuts. I have had people at mattress stores look at me like I was nuts when I told them about opening up my mattress to replace the foam. I think it's funny. People seem to think that it's IMPOSSIBLE to open up a mattress and "fix it"! I've recommended it to friends who have a mattress that is killing them but they don't want to spend the money on a new one... and in almost every case they decline to do it. It's like... it SCARES people to cut open a mattress!  Maybe they're afraid they are going to find a dead body... or a bicycle ... or god-knows- WHAT in there!  |
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Remember my post where I told the story about a "long time big S manager" saying that they could hide a bicycle in a mattress and the average person would not know the difference. For years, one of the old time scams, has been to get old mattresses and put new covers on them and sell them for new. The principal and the primary reason that I purchased a bed today from FlowBeds was to be able to acquire a mattress where I knew exactly what was going into it, and had a great deal to say about what that something was. And if I don't like it within the first 90 days I can change it. Unzip the cover and switch it around to my heart's content. Zip the cover back on and you're in business. The truth is it's not that much more money than I was going to pay for a Stearns and Foster latex mattress that S&F will not say exactly what the contents of the mattress is. The big S mattress companies love their euphemistic terms for their various layers of foam. I do not like to do business this way, so I went elsewhere. |
| The Intellicoil are individual pocketed coils and their are 600 of them in a queen set, The only way that coil unit will benefit you is if you weigh over 430 pounds! Thats how much pressure it takes to go thru all the padding and get down to the inner coil, I have sold Sterns and Foster and this is by far the most beautiful line up they have ever had but their also the worst value out their, If your looking to spend that type of money I would suggest a Simmons Black Lable, I have sold them both for years and I have found that the blacks hold up a lot better and are much more benificial to your health. |
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eagle2 wrote: Remember my post where I told the story about a "long time big S manager" saying that they could hide a bicycle in a mattress and the average person would not know the difference. For years, one of the old time scams, has been to get old mattresses and put new covers on them and sell them for new. The principal and the primary reason that I purchased a bed today from FlowBeds was to be able to acquire a mattress where I knew exactly what was going into it, and had a great deal to say about what that something was. And if I don't like it within the first 90 days I can change it. Unzip the cover and switch it around to my heart's content. Zip the cover back on and you're in business. The truth is it's not that much more money than I was going to pay for a Stearns and Foster latex mattress that S&F will not say exactly what the contents of the mattress is. The big S mattress companies love their euphemistic terms for their various layers of foam. I do not like to do business this way, so I went elsewhere. two companies use the Synthetic latex.. The only latex mattress in Ventura county and the Los Angeles /San Fernando I can find in a made up mattress that you can test out is Englander.. So, from research on the internet I see there is a dispute about the durability of Synthetic latex... I do not want any memory foam...so, I notice not too many\ posters here anymore.. Anybody have any experience with the Synthetic Foam ?? |
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chelliep wrote: two companies use the Synthetic latex.. The only latex mattress in Ventura county and the Los Angeles /San Fernando I can find in a made up mattress that you can test out is Englander.. So, from research on the internet I see there is a dispute about the durability of Synthetic latex... I do not want any memory foam...so, I notice not too many\ posters here anymore.. Anybody have any experience with the Synthetic Foam ??
I don't have experience with it, but our resident latex Expert, Budgy (look for his posts on latex) says that synthetic latex isn't so good and I believe him. I forget the name but there's a place south of L.A. down in Orange County that has a store of all latex mattresses you can try out. Might be worth it to drive down there. I did but we thought they were too pricey for not having a good sleep trial policy, as I recall. Can't remember the name but if you say the name and the location I can tell you if that was it or not. Where did you find the Englander to try? Do they have a sleep trial policy? (I know they did not, years ago, at the store near Hollywood that I tried one at.) (Which is why we did not buy there and went to Flobeds instead.) It does not surprise me in the least that the S companies would take a great thing like natural latex or LI latex and then use that good name of "latex" and turn it into some crappy thing (synthetic latex) that they can make much more inexpensively. As to the other post, I would never buy any individual pocket coils. They are just too prone towards migrating. They can even migrate when the movers bring them in your home from the store or from the truck. Simmons might be good IF the coils did not wear out relatively quickly and did not migrate... That's a big If in my humble opinion. (By the way, to clarify, this is an old thread that I originally posted about 7 months ago, before I bought my Englander springs.) This message was modified Apr 1, 2010 by jimsocal
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| Steam & Foster seems too costly to me. |