"Cushion Firm" Latex?
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I've tested out some mattresses in person, I've decided that I liked firm or cushion firm mattresses best. I am planning on getting a 36ILD latex base, but am very unsure/nervous about what topper to get. I am leaning towards a 2" 32 ILD latex topper, but don't know if that is a good match. I recently stayed at a Courtyard Marriott and slept on a Beautyrest Westbury, and slept horribly. The mattress felt as if it were cradling you like a wet sand feeling which I did not enjoy. I woke up every couple hours feeling "stuck". I'm not sure if a 2" or 1" topper would be ideal (I'm 140lbs), and if a 32 ILD topper on a 36 ILD base would create the firm/cushion firm I am looking for. I plan on first trying just the 36 ILD base, but if that is too firm I am not sure what to try next.... |
Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
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A reasonable starting point is to see what FloBed's Firmness Adviser suggests. Some think this doesn't go firm enough, but this may just be a vocal minority. One thing you can do is configure two sides, one "firmer" and one "softer" to give yourself a target range. For latex toppers, you will typically be limited to at most 3 choices, e.g, 24, 32, and 40. 24 is very soft, 40 is very firm. FloBeds and SleepEZ are two companies selling component mattresses which allow you to exchange layers if you want something firmer or softer. This takes the stress out of having to get it right the first time, and it also gives you some flexibility. If you buy a solid core, you have one choice of firmness. These two companies split the 5.6" cores into 2.8" layers and you can pick say a 32 and a 36 which gives you the choice of 32/36 or a firmer feeling 36/32. With either company the top layer is always soft. You don't have a choice of firmness on the top 1.4" or 2". I only know of two companies offering a choice of ILD in a 2" latex topper - FoamSource and TheFoamFactory, although there are undoubtedly others. |
Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
| If possible I would go for either a firmer 2" topper or even the 32ILD you mentioned in a 1" topper perhaps. It's all personal preference of course but 32ILD is going to sink - so do you want to sink 1" or 2". |
Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
| D3Fi, have you seen any 1" latex toppers? The thinnest I remember seeing is 2". SleepEZ has a 1.4" solid latex layer but only in a 22 ILD. |
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Get the base first. You will know then, if you want a medium or a soft top layer. You might even like sleeping directly on the 36 ILD with no topper. Memoryfoam.com still sells 28 ILD talatech, but only in 3" thick. That might work if you are a side sleeper, but it would probably be too thick for stomach or back sleeping. foambymail.com sells 1", but the manufacturer is unknown. Good luck in your quest. |
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jiffy524 wrote: I recently stayed at a Courtyard Marriott and slept on a Beautyrest Westbury, and slept horribly. The mattress felt as if it were cradling you like a wet sand feeling which I did not enjoy. I woke up every couple hours feeling "stuck". Simmons Beautyrest Westbury 450 Plush |
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MequonJim wrote: foambymail.com sells 1", but the manufacturer is unknown. FYI, FoamByMail is the same company as TheFoamFactory. Same address and phone number. They offer ILD 20 and ILD 32 in 1", 2", and 3" They say their toppers are talalay and "Made in USA" which should imply Latex International, but in fact does not. I called them a few weeks ago and at first they said their latex was from Latex International, but in a subsequent call was told only that they got their latex from a company in the Southern U.S. I asked if it was a latex manufacturer or a latex distributor. I was told it was a distributer. When asked who manufactured the latex, the lady said "I don't know who manufactures the latex." It has to be either Dunlopillo (U.K.) or Radium (Netherlands.) What's odd about this is "what's the big deal?" OK, so you get your latex from a European company. So what? Maybe it's not quite the quality of LI, but I have no reason whatsoever to believe it isn't of good quality, and it sure is less expensive. FoamSource, which sells only Latex International Talatech talalay, asks $369 for a 2" Cal King. FoamByMail asks $189. FoamByMail sells an entire 6" core of ILD 36 for less then a 3" topper from FoamSource. I called them just now and asked "Are your latex toppers manufactured by Radium or Dunlopillo?" The lady said she had no idea but agreed to ask someone. She came back saying "I'm not allowed to give out that information." It just so happens I need a 2" topper of ILD 32, so I ordered one from FoamByMail even though they couldn't tell me who manufactures the latex. They have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, so I can return it if the quality isn't up to my standards. I have some 2.8" layers of Latex International Talatech to compare it to. |
Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
| haysdb, I'll be interrested in your take on the quality of their latex. I was on track to go that route for my mattress core before going with the MyComfort pocket bed - even knowing that they were not LI. |
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I had an interesting conversation with Shawn at SleepEZ today that ties into this. They carry latex from I think three different, and maybe even four, manufacturers. They carry Vita because that's what their customers from Europe are familiar with. They carry a dunlop process latex. In his words "they are all good." He suggested that just as with innersprings and memory foam, at some point we can probably expect to start getting latex from China, and the quality, as with springs and memory foam, is not going to be top-of-the-line. But as far as he knew, that day was not here yet and all latex was still coming from the U.S., Europe (UK, Netherlands, Belgium), and Sri Lanka, and all was of good quality. When the Latex international factory burned to the ground back in 2001 (?) they bought up extra capacity from factories around the world to be able to continue supplying latex to their customers. Nowhere in my reading have I ever heard that their quality turned to crap when they did that. All that said, yes, I am intently anxious to see how their "cheap" talalay compares with LI Talatech. OT: Something slightly amusing is that it's conceivable I could end up with three layers of three different brands of latex in my own mattress. I talked to Shawn about something maximally supportive for a bottom 2.8 layer and he said a dunlop latex would tend to be a bit more supportive than a talalay (because it gets more dense toward the bottom). But the price is the same as Talatech, and I would probably lean toward the high tech and consistency of the Talatech. But it might be "something to do" to use three different brands of latex just to say I did. And it makes me a lot "smarter" when I'm talking about something I'm actually sleeping on. :-) This message was modified Sep 29, 2007 by haysdb
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D3Fi wrote: If possible I would go for either a firmer 2" topper or even the 32ILD you mentioned in a 1" topper perhaps. It's all personal preference of course but 32ILD <em>is</em> going to sink - so do you want to sink 1" or 2". I have a 32 ILD 1" latex layer on top of my mattress that was originally part of my interior layers. I like it better on top on the outside. Coupled with a 100% cotton down alternative fiber bed, it's just right. Doesn't sink so much that I feel my very firm mattress (now that I've tweaked it appropriately.) Inside are a 44 ILD latex layer, also 1" and a 45 and 55 HR PU foam layer about 3/4 inch. Over the coils with the door skin plywood over those. |
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Up until recently many of us purchased a low ILD latex topper from Overstock.com for $39.99 any size. I've bought three of them, all in King. I cut two of them in half. I'm not using any right now, but they're nice, especially if you like a softer comfort layer. They've since run out of them. There were a lot of good reviews on their website. <BR><BR>><BR><SPAN CLASS="quotedmessageheader">haysdb wrote:</SPAN><BR><DIV CLASS="quotedmessage">D3Fi, have you seen any 1&amp;quot; latex toppers? The thinnest I remember seeing is 2&amp;quot;. SleepEZ has a 1.4&amp;quot; solid latex layer but only in a 22 ILD.<quote This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by BeddyBye
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Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
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haysdb wrote: I talked to Shawn about something maximally supportive for a bottom 2.8 layer and he said a dunlop latex would tend to be a bit more supportive than a talalay (because it gets more dense toward the bottom). That is interesting. The other day, a business next door to my own came over and asked me if I wanted this foam. He showed me a square of latex. It was soft on top and firm at the bottom. He had 2,000 of these I could have if I wanted. One of his major customers is an "S" company. I guess that must have been Dunlop process. I didn't like the consistency. I would not want that for my mattress. |
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haysdb wrote: FYI, FoamByMail is the same company as TheFoamFactory. Same address and phone number. They offer ILD 20 and ILD 32 in 1", 2", and 3" They say their toppers are talalay and "Made in USA" which should imply Latex International, but in fact does not. I called them a few weeks ago and at first they said their latex was from Latex International, but in a subsequent call was told only that they got their latex from a company in the Southern U.S. I asked if it was a latex manufacturer or a latex distributor. I was told it was a distributer. When asked who manufactured the latex, the lady said "I don't know who manufactures the latex." It has to be either Dunlopillo (U.K.) or Radium (Netherlands.) What's odd about this is "what's the big deal?" OK, so you get your latex from a European company. So what? Maybe it's not quite the quality of LI, but I have no reason whatsoever to believe it isn't of good quality, and it sure is less expensive. FoamSource, which sells only Latex International Talatech talalay, asks $369 for a 2" Cal King. FoamByMail asks $189. FoamByMail sells an entire 6" core of ILD 36 for less then a 3" topper from FoamSource. I called them just now and asked "Are your latex toppers manufactured by Radium or Dunlopillo?" The lady said she had no idea but agreed to ask someone. She came back saying "I'm not allowed to give out that information." It just so happens I need a 2" topper of ILD 32, so I ordered one from FoamByMail even though they couldn't tell me who manufactures the latex. They have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, so I can return it if the quality isn't up to my standards. I have some 2.8" layers of Latex International Talatech to compare it to.
My guess is that foambymail buys their latex from multiple manufacturers and chooses whichever is least expensive when they order. This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by MequonJim
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Jim, thanks for that info on your samples, unfortunately it's made me nervous! I've actually emailed foambymail to request some samples but am waiting to hear from them. I've started a new thread, specifically asking for impressions of foambymail quality. I remember kapowilicious bought a topper from them, and was happy with the quality but did mention the LI seemed nicer. I noticed foambymail sells 1" toppers for $60 and 2" for $120. I plan on starting with the base first, then adding 1" toppers as necessary since the price of two 1" is the same as one 2". sager - that looks like what I slept on, not comfortable! I guess a plus = definite no for me. Isn't there a way to compare ILDs to firm, cushion firm, plush, and pillowtop? For instance: 44ILD and 36 ILD = very firm 36 ILD = firm 36 ILD and 32ILD topper = firmer cushion firm 32 ILD = less firm cushion firm 36 ILD and 32 ILD topper and 20 ILD topper = plush 36 ILD or 32 ILD and 20 ILD topper = pillowtop I think that a resource like that would be extremely helpful in helping people build a mattress. |
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They claim their toppers are talalay, but I wonder if they even know? They certainly do not act knowledgeable about their product. I have been told it's Latex International, I have been told "we don't know," and "we can't give out that information". I can't be sure but I think I have talked to the same woman each time. I went ahead and ordered from them because they wanted $189 for a 2" layer of ILD 32 latex whereas FoamSource wanted $349. With their satisfaction guarantee, I decided to take the risk that it would be of acceptable quality. I will know something in about a week. Unfortunately, if they are buying latex as a commodity, from wherever they can get the best price, then what I get may not be what someone else gets. Is there a way to know from the texture whether a latex was manufactured with the talalay or dunlop processes? I will be all over them if this topper isn't talalay, because they specifically claim it's talalay latex. But then they also claim it's "Made in USA" so their credibility is already in question. I feel like a guinea pig, risking my own money to get some answers. This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
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I know for conventional beds I do not like luxury firm but do like cushion firm as long as it is still very firm. Due to my allergy, I no longer sleep on anything but a latex bed. Now I will talk about toppers as I see others are doing on this thread. When the FloBed 2" Talalay Latex Topper was too soft for me, Dave sent me a 1.5" Medium Firm Dunlap Latex Processed topper that I did not like and sent back both toppers. The Talalay Latex was silky smooth and felt so good to touch while the Dunlap Latex was less consistent in the feel all over the topper and the coloring and feel was definitely not as nice to me as the Talalay Latex. Dave then sent me a 1.5" soft Talalay Latex Topper that was too big for my Queen Bed but this was not his fault since it was labeled Queen and brand new just coming in from Latex International. I sent it back and then he sent me the new cover I asked for and felt so bad he could not find me a topper I loved. I may try the 1.5" topper again in the right size over maybe a 44 ILD but I know it was too soft over a 36 ILD. Right now I am sleeping on my Overstock 1" Talalay Latex Topper (love it but wish it fit the bed better since it is smaller than a Queen size despite being labeled for a Queen Bed) over a 36 ILD over a 44 ILD over a 36 ILD which was very comfortable and perfect to me until my car accident. Now it is comfortable still but I am in pain all day and night and 6 weeks has passed and my neck pain is the worst and my upper back. My pain is the worst when doing work even in my orthopedic Neutral Balance chair that has head support but no neck support and when driving in my car. When, I am healed I will see if I want to try out the silky smooth 1.5" topper over the 44 ILD or leave my bed as it is. I asked Dave for an extension to make this decision and he said due to my extenuating circumstance of the car accident he will give me more time. For now, I love the new cover he sent me wish is so comfortable and I love the feeling of my Latex Bed made with the Talalay Latex and I love not having a stuffed nose when I wake up and not having to take allergy medicine before bed like I had to when I had a conventional bed. I also wish they were selling the 1" latex toppers at Overstock still since then I would buy a King Size and cut it to fit my bed. |
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Thanks for the replies so far everyone, it sounds like if I decide to go the topper route I will try a 1" first. I do have a couple concerns left about buying a latex mattress though: 1. Will 6" of 36 ILD latex not be firm enough? I suppose anything is better than what I have now, and the price on 6" of 36 ILD is excellent, but I'm wondering if some 44 ILD underneath is neccessary (and where to buy that wholesale). 2. Will 145lbs (me) on 6" of 36 ILD latex over a slatted base be enough thickness, or am I bound to bottom out? What about sitting in bed, or lying on my stomach and elbows reading? Lastly, if 6" enough to keep from bottoming out during those equally important, far more physical, non-sleeping activities? |
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With 5.6" of ILD 36 on a rigid foundation, you will probably be able to feel the foundation when you sit on the mattress, but I'm guessing you will not feel it when laying in a sleeping position. I would not recommend a 44, especially not on a solid foundation, unless you like a very firm mattress. I have 2" of ILD 32 coming to put over an ILD 38 core. I will know how that feels in a few days. I know of nowhere to buy one layer of ILD 44 unless you can get FloBeds ot SleepEZ to sell it to you. I have looked high and low and never found it. Even the full cores have gotten hard to find and you about have to buy a solid core latex mattress now in order to get a core. Something else you won't find is a topper in anything but a 32 or something very soft, ILD 24 max. I have not found any source for an ILD 28 topper. Only FoamSource offers an ILD 24 - everyone else is in the ILD 16 to 22 range. |
Re: "Cushion Firm" Latex?
| A 36 ILD Latex Core over a slat box is firmer than a 36 ILD latex core over a 44 ILD latex core over a slat box. The closer you are to the slat box, the firmer the mattress you are lying on. If you have three layers of Latex or even two layers and want a very firm bed, then a 44 should be under the 36 ILD in my opinion. But I KNOW that my 2 36 ILD latex cores over the slat box were firmer than two 36 ILD latex cores over a 44 ILD latex core over the slat box. My 36 ILD latex core over a 44 ILD latex core over a 36 ILD latex core over the slat box is a very firm and nice feel. So it depends on how many latex cores you will have and to remember that the closer you are to a solid hard surface, the firmer your mattress will be. Trying putting a soft pad directly on a floor and you will see what I mean. |
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| You make some good points Lynn. There are several variables. Change one and the whole equation changes. |
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| I ordered an extra pillow since they are closing out their line of latex pillows too. That is too bad. |