Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
| Last spring I started experiencing back issues. Since hubby was too, we thought it was time for a new mattress. After it was ordered, but before it was delivered, I stopped sleeping through the night. That was May 27 - for the most part I get no more than 3-4 hours of sleep per night since then. I soon discovered I have a herniated disc - L/4-L/5 that I am trying to survive without surgery. Hope that the new bed - a Sealy Boheme Plush - would help me sleep didn't last long. It was waaay too soft. After a few months we traded it in for a Sealy Dorinda Plush Firm. Not to sound like Goldilocks, but it was too hard. I could barely eek out 3 hours of sleep on it at first. After a couple weeks we went to talk to the store we bought it from and they said sorry - no more exchanges - unless we want to trade it in for a $2500+ tempurpedic! I am so totally confused about what might work for me, there's no way I can drop that kind of cash on something that I won't be able to return or exchange. I'm thinking the best thing to try to do now is to put a topper on it. From internet research I'm pretty sure I want latex - a mix of natural with synthetic - probably talalay. I've read somewhere to be sure the latex is made in the USA for better quality. Anyone know about that? But what thickness...1", 2"? And what number IDL? (Are those the right initials?) I'm so tired. I can barely deal with this. I really don't want to hassle with ordering things and sending them back. I just want to sleep. I'm like an infant - I'm asleep and awake in 4 hour intervals and eat, go to the bathroom, and cry in between. I feel like the herniation is healing - I'm in a way better place physically than I was in May. But I do feel that if I was on the "just right" matress, I'd be sleeping through the night and well on my way to symptom free for the herniation. |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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I too am suffering from horrible back pain and have been researching latex mattresses. I would look at several websites and read what everybody says about: 1. Dunlop vs. Talalay latex - some people seem to prefer one kind or the other. The short story is that Dunlop seems to be stiffer, have fewer ILD options, and is less consistent, and may break down sooner. Dunlop is manufactured in Sri Lanka, if I remember correctly. This site has some good information about the manufacturing methods and some nice video to watch: http://www.latexmattresscompany.com/ 2. All "natural" Talalay latex vs. blended Talalay latex - blended being a combination of natural latex rubber from a rubber tree and synthetic latex, which is chemically identical to natural latex. Again, you will hear differences of opinion with some feeling that all natural is the best latex, and others saying that blended Talalay has a more consistent structure and more longevity. One person in these forums mentioned in my thread "Longevity of Latex" that Latex International warrants their blended Talalay Latex (Talatech) longer than their all natural Talalay latex. 3. Origin of manufacture. Some latex is manufactured in Sri Lanka (Dunlop), some is manufactured in the US (Latex International being the primary source) and some in Europe - I don't recall the name of the European latex. Some people feel that origin also has a bearing on durability: http://matresses101guide.com/Mattress_Construction_Mattress_Upholstery_and_foam_beds.html 4. Talk to some professionals. Everyone on this website has an opinion, but none of them are mattress professionals (exception Alexander who knows a lot about beds with springs). Call some companies, like FloBeds, Sleepez, to discuss your back problems and what type of latex might be best for you. 5. If you can, search out a latex mattress in your area to try out. For me, I was able to try the following mattress brands in the San Diego and Orange County areas to see how they felt: Sweda (made by Lady Americana), Land and Sky (uses Dunlop latex), OMI (organic all-natural Talalay latex mattresses), and a latex mattress made by a local company called Custom Comfort, which uses all blended Talalay latex from LI. Even if you don't intend to buy a brand you are trying, I found it helpful to spend the time seeking out some local latex mattress sources so I could see if I liked the feel of latex (which I do). 6. Be wary of low priced latex. You don't know where it's from, or whether it's been properly washed to rinse out the chemicals used in the manufacture). You get what you pay for. Latex is just plain expensive, particularly Talalay, which is a more complex manufacturing process. 7. If you don't want to go through the hassle of ordering a mattress by mail and then sending it back if it's not right, then search around - you may find a custom mattress store in your area who makes them, or you may be able to find a mattress store that carries a brand like Sweda or Land and Sky. I was surprised to find two local mattress companies that manufacture latex mattresses within an hour's drive of me. Finally, if you can't find a place to try a latex mattress, maybe you should look at the tempurPedic. It's true some people hate them, but some people love them, and one thing they will do, just like the latex mattresses, is give you both proper support and pressure relief. And they are much more widely available. |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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Good post, Kimberly. I THINK I disagree about the Tempurpedic giving "support". It was my experience that it did at first, then broke down or broke in too much, after about a week. And I was not even overweight at that time. Maybe it gives enough support for some people, or maybe some people just don't notice because their backs are strong and healthy. And it's "ILD" which is Indentation Load Deflection. Here's more than you want to know about ILD and IFD. It seems that IFD is the proper and newest terminology but it seems that most people here and at stores know the "ILD" term better: http://cloud9airmattressbeds.com/ild_and_ifd_outline.html |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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eagle2 wrote: Go here and see what you think. It looks like a good deal to me. If I was not a person who wanted more control of this mattress layering deal, I would give these folks a try. A good read and lots of good video. Very informative! Good Luck. http://www.habitatfutons.com/latex_mattress.html PS: I just decided to go ahead and call habitat and see what their core layers were. They are as follows. Their 6 inch Dunlop is there least expensive mattress, it is 26 ILD. The same 6 inch Dunlop with a 2 inch Talalay, the Talalay is 19 ILD. The third mattress is the same ILD's the only difference is the top layer is 3 inches instead of two. They all come glued together inside a mattress cover with all the air sucked out of them for shipping, so you simpley unpackag them, unfold them, and give it about an hour to become a bed, and you're ready to go. That's it. eagle2, I think you said in another thread that you thought 26ILD would be too soft for a bigger person. I wonder if maybe a 26ILD in Dunlop is equivalent to a 28-32 ILD in Talalay? In which case, it might be okay if one likes the FEEL of it... I only laid on Dunlop once and it seemed MUCH less resilient and firmer so that could be the case. I did find this statement on a site; I thnk it was on a Latex International site: "Talalay latex foam mattress toppers generally come in 1 inch, 2 inch, and 3 inch thicknesses and the firmness available ranges from 14 ILD to 44 ILD. The “ILD” or Indentation Load Deflection is a standard unit of measure that is used globally to suggest the firmness of a foam. But while it is supposedly a standard unit of measurement, beware that because of the density factor and the fact that a Dunlop foam is denser than a Talalay foam, the same ILD’s between these two foams don’t equate perfectly in feel." Wish I had the money and room to store a bunch of foam mattresses and foams. I already have too many sitting around my apartment with my too-little closet space stuffed with foam!  But I'd really love to try some of these mattresses and toppers, especially the new Celsion latex! This message was modified Sep 18, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
| Thanks to all for your input. I was looking for the least complicated solution. I found a Verlo custom mattress store just a few minutes from my house and bought a 1" talalay latex layer to put atop our existing mattress. I have no idea what the ILD is. All their 1" layers of talalay latex comes in one ILD. It's what they custom make all their beds with, I figured I'd be fine. I really thought I'd be sleeping that weightless, dream-filled sleep and that I'd start a rapid recovery from my herniated disc with all the sleep I'd be getting. Well....it's 3:30 a.m. and here I am. i woke up after only 2 hours feeling very uncomfortable. Tossed and turned for another hour and a half and decided to just give up. I can't even tell you how defeated and depressed I am. I can't spend one more dime. I don't know how to try to survive one more sleepless night. I'm beside myself..... |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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I'm so sorry you're having trouble...I know what sleepless nights feel like. Do you feel any softness at all with the latex topper? You could go to bed, bath and beyond, or any store that sells toppers (memory foam, fiber, etc.) and just get a few and see how they feel, mix and match and return whatever you don't like. Not that it's a long-term solution, but just to get some sleep right now! If you find you like the memory foam, then you can order the good stuff but still have some decent sleep while you wait. Hoping you find some relief... |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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electracat wrote: Do you feel any softness at all with the latex topper? I'm wondering this, too. It's possible that the 1" topper isn't providing enough cushioning -- because it's not thick enough and/or because it's a low ILD (if it is a low ILD; I know you said you don't know what it is). Maybe you just need another inch or two, of some kind of topper. Or maybe your topper will turn out to be OK, after you've had a few nights to adjust to it. I've never experienced a herniated disc, thank goodness, but I sure know what it's like to be tight on cash. I think I'd start with the cheapest (plain ol' polyurethane foam) toppers, at Walmart, Kmart, Target, BBB, or someplace like that -- or a local wholesale foam distributor, if there's one near you -- just to see if another inch or two of padding will give you enough cushioning to help you sleep. If spending even another $20 is out of the question for now, do you have any extra blankets you can put under your bottom sheet to get some padding? I imagine you're feeling stuck in a vicious cycle for now (no sleep = worse pain; worse pain = less sleep?). Sure hope you find something that works for you, even for the short term, so you can rest and regroup. -Catherine |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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Why don't you give David Turner, owner operator, at FloBeds.com a call. He has spent 30 years in the mattress business working with your kinds of problems. He started out with waterbeds, and if memory serves, working with the VA or Medicare or some such organization trying to help patients with your kinds of problems, and worse. He now principally sells latex but he also has waterbeds and air beds. And most importantly he seems to really care and have a lot of knowledge. And as has been testified to on this website, goes out of his way to try and provide an answer to these kinds of situations. You can go to his website as he has all kinds of information. Here is his 800 number. 1-800-356-2337 I have back issues to, but fortunately they're not troubling me now. But they were a couple of months ago and that's how I got into this whole business of researching mattresses. I went to a Stearns and Foster outlet and the fact that I could not really find out what was in the mattress sent me on my great search. I wound up with FloBeds.com You have my best wishes and, Good Luck. I feel your pain!!  Don |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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Dear Bedhater; You poor thing, I feel your pain. Been there, done that(never diagnosed with a herniated disc, but my low back pain was intense...and BED-CAUSED, tho no one believed me). If you can communicate exactly how the bed with topper feels and why you can't sleep on it perhaps we can help. I am thinking that there isn't enough soft on top at this point. If the bed was hard as a rock(how does this happen, anyway? Tight encasement around the bed innards? Glue keeping things from giving? P/U Foam not broken in to the point it gives much under body weight?) you can try several things to soften it. My bed guy(Bill) told me when mine was new to walk on it and twist my feet(it makes the bed relax or somesuch thing, probably eases the layers and smooshes them around a bit). Then he told me to actually jump on it(I don't weigh that much). Neither seemed to make much difference, so I switched sides with my heavier husband...his side had begun to soften just fine. Then I got a topper that is a baffled down-like polyfill pad that I put under my sheet on my side and it is just soft enough. I think that you could try the above to soften the bed at first, and maybe with the latex topper try either what I did(you could look for one on sale, or if you sew, maybe make your own...they sell this stuff in the fabric store) or go to Target and get one of their cheap foam toppers and use it over the latex. That will add another layer of softness, if your bed is stlil too hard. As for cost, since the bed was comfy to my husband from day one, I just bought everything in a twin size and did my side only. No sense in spending twice as much to change where you do not sleep, especially if you are on a budget. Good luck! Kait |
Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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Bedhater, I feel you pain. Rather, I HAVE felt your pain. Now that I've done surgery on my mattress I am 90% better. Granted, I am a big fan of mattress surgery, and I know you said you don't want any big hassle, you just want a simple solution. Unfortunately I really think, after reading your posts again, that there is no simple solution. The first bed was too soft. That sounds right because the beds they make now are almost always too soft. So you bought the Plush Firm and now it's too firm. I think you have to face reality, and that reality is that it is not going to be easy to find comfort with a herniated disc. I have had 3 car accidents all affecting my back, neck and shoulders (and through nerve damage, also my arms). I have struggled for years with my mattress and tried about everything. That's how I got into cutting my mattress open and replacing the foam inside of it with better foam and foam that fits MY needs. I understand your reluctance to cut open your mattress and deal with finding the right foams and etc. but I really think it's the only way for people like us, with physical problems with our backs, etc. By cutting it open you can accomplish several things: 1) Get rid of the lousy foam that is sitting on top of the springs and not giving you proper support. Even though you say it feels too hard, it's because you're feeling the springs too much. What you need is to replace the super soft low quality foam inside with some good quality slightly firmer foam on top of tthe springs and then softer foam on top of that. This is what I would do if I were you. (You will have to spend some more money but this is your health - mental and physical - we are talking about. So think about that and see if you can find the money somewhere, some way.) Just putting a topper on is not going to solve your problem. I wish it would. So this is what I would do if I were you: 1) Order a 1" latex topper from foambymail. This is the cheapest latex topper you can get: Get the 20ILD one inch thick latex topper: http://www.foambymail.com/LatexTopper.html 2) Also get a 1" 32ILD topper. These 2 with the one you already have should be all you need to replace ALL the foam inside your current mattress. Put the 32ILD directly on top of the springs, then put the one you have now, then put the 20ILD on the very top. Cover it all with your bottom fitted sheet, it will stay in place if you've cut it right. See my Englander MATTRESS SURGERY thread for a guide. Also this one: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/dissecting-my-sealy-fenway-mattress-bought-costco-4-years-ago-lousy-soft-foam-inside/1954-1-1.html. I can almost guarantee you that doing this will be a big improvement over what you have now. Also, and more importantly, it will allow you to easily make changes to fine-tune your mattress so that it works better for you. Again, read my Englander Mattress Surgery thread - just my posts to save time - to get the idea of other variables you can adjust, for example putting some memory foam in the mix. You don't mention if your husband is okay with the bed or not. If he is, you can cut the current foam down the middle of the bed with an electric carving knife. It's very easy. That way you can just buy twin toppers for your side of the bed, if it's a King. If it's a queen or full then you'll have to then cut the new twin size toppers a little to fit on your half only. I know it's complicated but like any new experience it seems scarier and harder than it really is. Actually it is VERY EASY and you'll be amazed at how easy it is and how nice it is to be able to ADJUST your bed. For example, with the above recommended foam pieces plus the one you have now, you can put them in different orders, move the one on top to the bottom or middle, etc, to adjust the way it feels. The only other thing you MIGHT need to do is buy a piece of 1" memory foam - preferably 4-5lb densitiy - and use that in the mix but you may not need that. You can also add some cheap polyurehtane foam to the mix but be advised that it will break down quickly and you never want to use more than 1" of it. If you feel you cannot do this, see if you can get a family member or friend to help you. All that is needed is an exacto or very sharp knife or seam cutter, and an electric carving knife (used for meat) to cut the foam if you need to cut the foam. If you replace the foam on the whole bed, not just your half, then no foam cutting is necessary. All I can say is that this has worked for me and I was waking up night after night suffering in pain from my bed. I woke up in the morning after 5-6 hours sleep because I couldn't stand being in that mattress any longer. Now I sleep for 8 hours or even 9 and wake up with only a little stiffness and soreness. That's the other thing, when you are hurt as we are, with real physical problems, NO mattress is going to totally eliminate all your pain every night. All you can do is make it a lot better. Good luck! p.s. I'm not the ONLY "nut" on this forum who has cut up their mattress to replace the foam. Others have done it too and to my knowledge. all have found it to be a better way to go than the store-bought mattress as it came. This message was modified Sep 23, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: Desperate for sleep - Herniated disc sufferer looking for mattress/topper solution
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Bedhater - my heart goes out to you! I know the overwhelming feeling of searching endlessly for the right solution. I found one, and later realized I had allergies to it (memory foam). So I'm searching again, too. A few of us are trying a "new" product we ran across...Oodles toppers & pillows. They seem to combine latex (in the form of pellets or "noodles") and a natural fiber spun from corn. I'm hoping it's the best of two worlds - fiber filled and latex... I like the puffy feeling if fiber and the springy feel of latex. Once they arrive and we try them, we'll report back to let you know if they are good or not. Meanwhile, I hope this is not too off topic or stepping out of the area this board is intended for, but I went through a long year of waking at 3 or 4 a.m. nearly every night. I also was sleeping SO LIGHTLY that anything would wake me up - including the soft paws of my cat's feet on the wood floor. It was maddening! I also had a couple other health issues going on (I'm overweight and had some hormonal issues) so I ended up seeing a Naturopath that my friend had raved about. The doc did some blood work on me and began tweaking my hormones with some supplements. After a couple months I had some marvellous health improvements. AND I BEGAN SLEEPING THRU THE NIGHT. I didn't realize they were connected, but apparently hormone imbalances can be a major cause of waking up in the wee hours. I thought my problem was my cat padding around at night - since that is what I noticed when I awoke. I tried locking him out (he only scratched and yowled so that didnt work) and earplugs... But as I progressed with the treatment, I started sleeping more soundly. I dropped the earplugs after a little while (since I hated sleeping in them), and as I got better - I didn't hear him at all! I know a herniated disc is WAAAY more intrusive to sleep than a noisy cat. But if your back is healing and you are still waking up, perhaps it is not the only cause of your waking... Maybe it's worth a try... Naturopaths are way more tuned in to women's issues than Western med docs. What have you got to lose? Best wishes for a succesful outcome in your quest for good nights rest. :) SK This message was modified Sep 24, 2009 by SKeeter
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