Mattress Forum

They are both very high quality materials that should last a long time even with weight issues. The only possible exception to this (and I stress possible) is with all natural Talalay in very soft ILD's.

Dunlop is a denser, heavier material than Talalay which is why some people (I believe falsely) believe that it may last longer. They are also often but not always selling Dunlop.

Talalay is a more consistent material and made with a more "high tech" process which is why some people (I believe falsely) believe that it may last longer. They are also often but not always selling Talalay.

While it may be true that one will last longer than another if a specific person was to use it, the next person may very well find for their specific use that it was the other way around.

They do have different qualities that can make a real difference in which you choose to use in your mattress but also be aware that one manufacturer's version of Talalay may also be different from another manufacturers version of Talalay. Most of these though (but by no means all) made in North America at least come from Latex international so the only real difference is in whether it is their all natural Talalay or their blended Talalay. Their all natural is a litle more "springy" than their blend because the NR rubber used is more springy and has better overall qualities than SBR. I would also "trust" the blended Talalay made by Radium (Vita) as they are to Europe as LI is to North America. I have some doubts about Dunlopillo Talalay as it is currently being made as I have suspicions (see another thread about IKEA) that it could now be poured and manufactured in China.

Dunlop produced all natural latex on the other hand (I wouldn't consider a blended Dunlop as a good option) has many more manufacturers available in mattresses and there can be a real difference in the feel and qualities of each different manufacturer. While it is true that they are all denser than Talalay, they do not all have the same response characteristics as others. There are quite a few differences between brands and the source of rubber they use, how long it remains in it's latex form before it is poured, and how they harvest, purify, preserve, and manufacture their Dunlop. Brand and source does make a bigger difference in Dunlop than in Talalay.

I would personally make my choices based on how they feel in "field testing" as I believe that they will both last a very very long time ... but not forever.

Phoenix

One of the vendors touting the advantages of 100% Natural Dunlop over blended Talalay for heavier people is Sleep Ez.  Based on what you are saying, I need to ask him which of the sources he gets his Dunlop from and if it is truly 100% and not blended.  It appears he is using 100% Dunlop sourced from Latex Green Aprico; using Sri Lanka raw materials.  A quick search of the internet seems to show the importer as Richard Pieris Natural Foams Limited.  The interesting part of the conversation is that he also sells blended Talalay from LI (Talatech) and 100% Dunlop for the same price.  The 100% natural Talalay he sells costs around 25% more.  So there does not seem to be a profit or supply based motive here as he could sell me either of the aforementioned for the same price  and he also steered me away from the most expensive item he had.

Thanks for information.  The more I dig into this the more layers of detail there seem to be to get into.  A month ago I never would have thought that choosing a mattress would be so complicated :)  So far the only reason I keep poking at the on-line vendors is their liberal return policies....

One of the reasons that it is often recommended for heavier people is because of it's density and it's firmer feel ... especially as a core layer.

I believe that firmer Talalay is just as suitable as firmer Dunlop (the Dunlop in the same ILD may feel firmer and it has a softer and firmer side because of how it's made) as a core layer but that they can produce a very different feel. Personal experience and your own field testing so you know the differences in feel from a personal perspective will probably do more to help you decide than any research by itself. Natura for example ... as well as others that are widely available make mattresses in both Talalay and Dunlop and laying on a few makes a big difference.

I've probably done as much research as most people but I can honestly tell you that without the context of actually laying on mattresses and knowing what it was I was laying on I would almost certainly have "got it wrong" when I bought my own.

Phoenix

Weight by itself is also not a reliable indicator of what construction may be best for you as sleeping habits and especially your own sensitivities and body profile (shape and weight distribution) play very important parts.

Only some field testing is likely to give you a clear idea of what is really suitable for YOU.

Phoenix

Phoenix

I wonder what it is that causes some mattress salespeople to avoid any reasonable discussion ... misrepresent facts ... ignore what was said to them ... and overpromote what they are selling without any knowledge of the alternatives that exist in this big wide world.

So sad.

Phoenix

Alright mate.  You are making a lot of very large blanket statements here that are blown out of proportion. 

Styrene and butadiene are classified as VOC's however once they have been polymerized they are completely stable, if blended latex is washed correctly none of the un reacted SBR will remain in the product (or VERY little). 

You are right in saying that Dunlop would be in theory (in some cases) the most pure natural rubber possible, however Talalay is available with ZERO SBR content.  It is not all blended product.  Dunlop can also be the WORST latex around if made to really low standards.  There are so many variables that it really isn't good discussion (or helpful) to label one as being superior to the other as a rule.

I can tell you that over here in NA I am probably one of the few that believes that dunlop (if made to really high standards) can be the best rubber around, however if you guys have literally had zero complaints on latex mattresses over the years then you haven't sold that many latex mattresses. 

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1011/S00014/sleepyhead-announces-major-australian-acquisition.htm

Phoenix

they stabilize as they become part of the co-polymer mixture of NR and SBR, which means they are no longer a VOC.  Volatile Organic Compounds by definition means chemicals not stable at room temperature and release into the air, if they are stable, they are no longer classifed as such. Much in the same way that the other 4~6% of Latex Gold dunlop would be natural sulfur, you wouldn't want to sleep on pure powdered sulfur in its natural state but once it is processed it is locked within the foam itself and completely stable. 

Its one thing to have your opinion on what is the better product, but if you talk so negatively about other product when ignoring the chemistry of all involved then it just sounds biased. Personally I agree that I would rather sleep on natural rubber, but its more so the other benefits that natural rubber present, there are not exactly huge negatives to SBR blended latex, and it is less expensive, so provides people with better priced alternatives.

mate i am fully aware of the aqcuisition and knew of it before most people did. the talaly made here is not NR, it does have styrene in it, that is a fact. we have both talaly on our floor and latex gold and the differences are vast. i can tell you factually that we have had ZERO problems with latex gold. we have had however many complaints about the pungent odour that talalay emits, not so with latex gold. i am not acquainted with the different types of synthetic rubber that is available in the US but i know ours is the best in the southern hemisphere. the germans buy ship loads of the stuff so they are very anal with purity so to get it into germany is quite a feat.

I have been systematically going through a lot of the past threads and there are a lot of champions for a lot of specific brands.  I read this in a positive context as it tells me I have a good shot at being happy, if I am just willing to persevere and not expect the first or even the second attempt to be a home run.

I really appreciated a recent post by Phoenix about the adjustable bed approach.  It got me thinking along less traditional lines.  The wife and I had a discussion.  I pointed out that when all is said and done we just may end up liking very different bed construction approaches; so our to date approach of buying a shared mattress may not be best.  Also, we tried an adjustable years ago, and thought it had some clear advantages but at the time the cost was out of our reach. Back in the when they also tended to look more like hospital beds which turned us off a bit also.

So what we arrived at is this.  Why not get two Twin-xl adjustable bases, then each pick the mattress technology that suites us best with the caveat that we look to keep the mattresses around the same height for practicality purposes.  This would give us a much more personalized and less of a settle for approach in trying to accommodate each other.  Also, we would have the clear benefits of an adjustable with future flexibility for our bodies needs changing.

Anyways we went out earlier today, tried out a latex mattress on an adjustable base and are both very pleased with the overall feel and flexibility.

The journey continues............

"sleepyhead only own  the dunlop foam name not dunlopillo, btw you may want to get your facts right. and to burst your little bubble as you say we live in, we do have the best latex made under the srtictest guidelines and regulations than are made in china and malaysia. no styrene in our latex buddy."

20 minutes ago you didn't seem to realize that they bought the Dunlopillo brand as well.

Whether you carry it or not ... since they also make a Blended Talalay ...  Dunlopillo does make a NR Talalay as does Latex International and as we're just finding out several other manufacturers.

There are also many many 100% NR Dunlops being made all around the world of very high quality ... some with higher NR % than Latex Gold.

Strangest part of all of this is that if you look at the other thread ... I was quite complimentary about Latex Gold ... except for saying they are overpriced compared to other NR Dunlop that is available. I also made comments to the effect that they don't seem to be aware of the alternatives that are out there ... and you seem to be repeating the company line and confirming that.

Phoenix

As far as all this "talalay" vs "dunlop" nonsense ... It really is about what works best for you in your field testing. In my experience you will certainly feel the difference between them and come to know which you prefer. There really is only opinion as far as what is "best".

Phoenix

PS: There are two kinds of adjustable ... one is position adjustable and one is tension adjustable. Some have both ... but no massage which was "important" in our own search (laughing).

PPS: Please ignore the comments about the single King adjustable base. While a single king on top does have some advantages over two twins including price, using a King adjustable is not one of them since they don't make them that way. Brain freeze ... thanks Budgy :)

You're right of course ... at least to my knowledge. Cancel cancel :)

Phoenix

On my piece of Latex Green Dunlop it is not marked as which side is firm or soft, and by touch I can not tell a difference.  I have another no name Dunlop (unlabeled from O-stock) and I definitely can tell the soft side from the firm side.  So it is strange.  But, one side has perfectly spaced holes, the other side they are off center and all mixed up (Budgy posted a picture of this side once).  Just an observation.......