Mattress Forum

 You are probably right that it is too soft for you.  Your setup is better for a side sleeper than a stomach sleeper.   So, you can firm up the support levels (bottom and/or middle) and then it might work with the soft on top.  Or you can make the top level firmer.  A lot of side sleepers tend to like it softer on top for pressure relief, but then they have a firmer supportive base.  As a stomach sleeper, having it softer on top might not be as important.

I think you probably will want to get 1 XF layer to try.  Then you would have lots of combinations you could try:  XF/F/M, XF/F/S, XF/M/S, etc. and even more if you can temporarily exchange some pieces from you wifes side.

If you can borrow from your wifes side you would have more options to be able to try right now:  F/F/M, F/M/M, F/F/S, etc.   You may want to try a couple of those on your own to see how they feel for a 15-30 minute period.  If there is one you like, ideally you would try to sleep on it for a night or 2 to see if you have any back issues.   Not sure if that would work for your wife though.  Maybe you have a spare bed she could use for a night or 2 of testing.

It is possible one of those will work really well for you and you might not need to try XF.

If you can't borrow any from your wifes side, you could  try reversing the F & M to have M/F/S, and try reversing the M & S to have F/S/M.  Or try M/S/F.  All of those would be a bit firmer.  Probably not a final solution though.  You can even try S/F/M, but generally it is not a good idea to have a support (bottom) level being soft.

Here is what we decided to do. Wife's side is now (top to bottom) M/S/F and for my side I am going to try XF/M/S. This may be too hard for me for the long term but I need to get my back set straight and then I can soften things up. I think the soft has to go for me but not sure what to swap it for just yet. Wife is happy with her set up during our brief test.

In spite of these adjustment issues I am still very pleaesd with the suport I have received from SleepEZ and I think this is the correct route for us. I love that fact that we can change things up to get them right which would not have been possible with some other options we looked at. I will report back with results after a few nights...

Thank you for your feed back and suggestions! Much appreciated.

As far as layering , generally a stomach sleeper may need an inch (or maybe slightly more) of "softer" on top and then firmer layers under to prevent hyperextension of the back. 3" of soft is likely too thick even though the softness (ILD)  would be fine and even good if it was thinner. For now ... the soft layer on the bottom may be your best bet (you would sink down the least) with the firm over it and the medium on top. If the medium is "soft" enough to feel comfortable for you in terms of pressure relief ... then replacing the bottom soft with an x-firm may improve things even more.

If medium on top is too firm for you in terms of pressure relief, then the other option that may work for now is to keep the soft layer on top and then two firms (one "borrowed" from your wife so she had 2 mediums) underneath it. This would stop the sinking down a bit if you need something soft on top for pressure relief. I would suspect though that even if you had Xfirm Xfirm underneath 3" soft on top, it may still be too thick for stomach sleeping so I would only try this if medium on top was too firm to provide you with the pressure relief you need and was uncomfortable.

Phoenix

PS: Just saw your post and if sleeping on Xfirm is OK for you then that would be great however I suspect that it may not provide enough pressure relief in which case switching your top two layers may work. It is rare that even a stomach sleeper would be comfortable sleeping directly on Xfirm without a little softness on top.

I am not too sure about XF on top and S on bottom as a long-term solution.  That is inverted to the way most people put them together.   I wish you could still you wife's F for a night or 2 and try to work that into the solution with no S (or possibly no M) layer.  
 

When I spoke with Shawn yesterday he talked about how it takes days or even weeks to acclimate to latex and new mattresses in general. He spoke of how your body creates depressions in your mattress that are unique to your body and it takes an adjustment period to readjust to latex. Well, if this is what he means by adjustment I want no part of it. I travel quite a bit and sleep on different mattresses all the time (never any latex though). I have slept on boats, planes, cars, trains, floors and even on the ground. I never wake up unable to walk upright. In fact, I cannot recall ever having acute pain caused by a mattress. Some stiffness maybe but not this, Someting is clearly wrong here.

This was so painful for me that in the middle of the night I crawled out of bed and hopped into my daughter's bed (she is away at school). She has a decent quality inner spring mattress which I have never slept on before. My pain began to dissipate almost immediately - still hurts but clearly something in the latex is causing my back grief.

As I lay in bed unable to sleep it occurred to me that the biggest difference between the latex and a convnetional mattress is rigidity. People here talk quite a bit about firmness and softness but not about rigidity. If I were able to hold a conventional mattress from one end it would have enough rigidity keep from touching the floor. Latex I suspect would be flacid and droop right down to the floor. It seems that the rigid layer of a conventional mattress is close to my back whereas in the latex it is 10" lower down at the base of the bed. My theory is that this is the root of my problem. As a stomach sleeper I need that support up close to my back were it can provide the needed support. I have always gravitated toward firm sleeping surfaces and now I know why. 

It is hard to think about yet another night on the latex mattress but I may try to find a piece of plywood to put under the XF layer to see if this helps. This would bring the support I need up closer to my back. It makes me wonder though about why I spent so much money on 10" of latex if I only end using the top 3". I may give my back a night or 2 of rest (I am exhausted) but will report back with any new thoughts as I progress through this nightmare.

There must be other stomach slepers out there that have gone through this process. Tell me what works. I am all ears. Can a stomach sleeper find success with latex or should I return this mattress and look elsewhere?

Sorry if I seem cranky. Just tired and frustrated.

I tend to agree with you that if it is causing severe pain, then it is not just a matter of taking time to adjust.

 However, I think you are probably using a bad configuration for you.   It seems that you need something pretty firm, so having the soft on the bottom and probably the medium in the middle is not great.  It is possible that you need 2 layers of XF and one a bit softer.   Only some trial and error will tell.  I recall some Flobed people using 3 layers of XF (36 ILD) with the softer 2" convoluted layer on top.

You may want to have him send you an XF and another F layer, so you have more choices.   If your wife can sleep on your spare bed, you may want to swap out the soft for her firm to see if that helps things at all.

I would note that some people end up just not liking an all latex mattress.  You may be one of those, but I would say that it is too early to tell until you try something much firmer.

p.s.  As a temporary measure you may want to try just 6" using the XF & M.  The bed will be unbalanced of course, but your side will be firmer.

p.s.s.  If you really want firm support, you can also consider getting dunlop instead of talalay for 1 or 2 of the support layers.  I see that sleepez XF is 44 ILD.  That is pretty firm stuff for most people. 

The "rigidity" you are talking about in a "normal" mattress comes from the innerspring and is a side effect of how it is constructed and what it is made of ... not from it's softness or firmness. Much of this "rigidity" comes from the steel border rod (which is why an innerspring is constructed differently for use on an adjustable bed so it can "bend"). Even the "softest" innerspring would be more rigid than either latex foam or the layers of foam above the innerspring in a standard mattress even though it may be softer and "less suitable" for someone in actual use than a very firm foam. This "rigid" layer is also at the bottom of a mattress and usually has a non rigid layer of foam (sometimes a quite thick layer of foam) above it. It is the firmness or softness of an innerspring and it's spring rate that determines what it does in the mattress construction ... much like firm foam which is (usually) also in the bottom layer like an innerspring so when they are both flat ... rigidity does not come into play. There are good videos of a "typical" mattress construction and innerspring construction here

Most of the standard mattresses ... even the firmest ones ... have some very soft foam above the firmer layers. This is usually even softer than the softest 14 ILD laex you can buy. Most people have no idea that they are often sleeping on top of very soft foam when they lay on a very firm mattress because the mattress feels so firm. In your case ... how far you are sinking down into the mattress and the thickness of the upper layers (the comfort layer) is a very important issue. The pillow under your hips may solve your issue while you are "fixing" the construction.

I believe that the 8500 would have been more suitable for you as the upper layer would have been only 1.5" of soft and this could have been on top of 2 layers of firm or extra firm ... much more like a traditional "firm" mattress. With 3x3" with even medium on top you may still sink down too far and with say 3 layers of Xfirm or even with a firm on top you may end up with pressure issues as you may need a thin soft layer on top just like a "regular" mattress. Given how light your wife is the 8500 may also work fine for her (she probably doesn't need a really thick comfort layer because of her weight and could have softer foam than you under it to make up for any additional "cradling" she may need).

I also agree with sandman that an Xfirm under medium is the most likely "short term" solution to your problem (besides the pillow).

If I was in your shoes ... I would either consider a topper on top of xfirm or firm layers under or consider switching to the 8500.

Phoenix

On a side note, I found out I am wheat/gluten/yeast intolerant. During the week that I eliminated those foods from my diet, I had no back pain. None. Need to get back on that bandwagon but it's tough.

Have you tried S/F/S? Or even S/S/F? You might be surprised...

Steve
 

Someone had asked what my bed base was composed of (Sandman perhaps?). We have a Euro style bed with 1" x 4" maple slats spaced at 3" intervals. Shawn said that this was fine. I suspect that they flex a little bit at my weight (150 lbs) but probably not enough to be causing the problems that I am having. Just to be sure I'll have my wife take a look when I lie on the bed.

More next week...

 XF/M should be a good experiment, but that may not have a lot of depth.  If that seems close, then you probably want to add another XF on the bottom to use XF/XF/M.   If you really want just a firm 3" base, get the XF in dunlop.

I don't know if you tried F/XF/M.  That should be slightly firmer than XF/F/M.

p.s.  I think stomach sleepers are the hardest to get right.  As Phoenix noted, you maybe need an extra support under you hip area.  Maybe a pillow or a 1" firm piece of foam to put under that area.

how are you returning the layers?

how do you pack them and in what kind of box if any? are they not hard to fold and pack?

how much is it costing you to "exchange" them?

are you then getting "brand new layers" in exchange?

Thanks.

Roy1, I am returning the 2 layers in the box that contained the replacement layers. The box is quite heavy duty and should survive the return trip from Boston to Phoenix without a problem. I packed them in the same plastic that the replacement layers were in and used my vacuum cleaner to suck out the air and swquish it down a bit. They fit easily into the box so no problem there. As I understand it, there is no fee for the first exchange although I am responsible for the return shipping freight. The replacement layers are new. Not sure what happens to the returned layers. I suspect that they are recycled in some fashion bacause this stuff is pretty dear. If I require any additional replacement layers in the remaining 60 days I believe I must pay shipping both ways but otherwise, there is no cost to me.

Curiously, my wife, who as you may recall had been pleased with her second round set up of F/F/M decided to use this opportunity to try out some of my layers, She put my XF on the bottom and then layered 2 F on top so she now has XF/F/F (bottom to top). After 4 days with this set up she prefers it and will likely need to call Shawn yet again to swap one of her M layers for an XF (as I will need to steal it back from her tonight!).

So far my take away from this experience is that we started out with a mattress that was much too soft for both of us (F/M/S). I went with Shawn's recommendation (against my gut feel) and have spent much time fussing with these layers ovedr the past 6 weeks. Of course, it would have been better had we been able to try out various combinations locally before buying but I suspect that even this would not have been sufficient. I seem to require 3 nights on a new set up to know if it is going to work on not. My wife spent over 2 weeks before deciding her mattress was too soft.

I have found this forum to be useful and I hope that my experience will prove valuable to someone embarking on a new latex mattress. It is clear to me after reading many threads here that everyone has a very particular need when it comes to finding a suitable mattress. I still do no not know if we will find the right combination of layers for me but with each new change I feel we are getting closer. I will post another follow-up after I have tried the new XF layers. I am hoping that this will do the trick.

My wife has also been slowly migrating to a firmer bed. As you may recall, we both started out with Shawn's recommendation of F/M/S. I ended up with XF/XF/XF. Now my wife has F/F/M. She has tried out my XF as a base layer and now will be returning her M for an XF since she was happiest with XF/F/F (she is a side/back sleeper).

So there you have it. It took us the better part of 6 weeks. My wife complained a bit about all the work swapping and shifting layers and packaging them up for shipping. When all is said and done, we will have ordered a total of 6 layers and returned 5 of them for firmer layers. SleepEZ was a pleasure to deal with and I feel that they have a quality product. I would recommend them to anyone looking to buy a latex mattress.

what latex is it? dunlop or talalay? Why no one mentions what latex they bought is puzzling.

I will keep you informed.

Scott

I think we all want soft but then we see soft hurts our back and soon we go firmer.  I know I needed the topper because a softer latex core hurt my back and a firmer one without the topper, caused pressure points just like a conventional mattress did. I now sleep very comfortable.

Please let us know what configuration you and your wife end up with.

We both absolutely love our new latex mattress from SleepEZ. It was difficult getting the firmness right but overall I am extremely pleased with the results and would not consider going back to innerspring designs. If I could offer any small bit of advice from our experience it would be to go firmer than you think you want and then soften it up with a topper. In the end, the only way I could get my mattress firm enough was to add a bed board between the bottom and the next layer up - effectively changing my side to a 6" mattress plus the topper. The only other thing that changed since my last post in February is that we added a 1" medium talalay topper from foam by mail. It added just a touch of softness to my XF/XF/XF and my wife liked the results also. I cannot emphasize this point enough for stomach sleepers. Get it FIRM. As FIRM as you can stand it and you will not regret it. 

slpngoc, ordering from a company via the internet or the phone was not my first choice, however, after trying several local mattress stores I was unable to find a mattress that I liked. In addition, none of them offered the generous return policy of SleepEZ nor did they offer the ability to completely customize the mattress to our needs. I agree that it was not particularly convenient, but we ultimately got a mattress that is perfect for us which would not have been possible if we were limited to local options. I think if you read through some of the posts here you will also learn that "laying" on a mattress in a store for a few minutes is not the same thing as spending a night on it. Indeed, I found that it took a full three nights sleep before I could determine with certaintlly if a particuilar configuration was going to work long term.