Mattress Forum

SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Sep 10, 2007 4:47 AM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
[Edit: Jump down a few posts as I did finally receive the samples...]

This has become a three-week-long joke. They keep promising to send samples (which they charge for), but I haven't gotten them yet. They haven't charged my credit card, but that's not the point. I'm finding them to be not good on their word. And that's a crying shame because they carry the full range of Foamex foams at good prices.

I've been corresponding via email with another member of the forum, and he tells me he didn't get samples he was promised either.

Right, samples. I too requested some from sleepwarehouse.com and they were going to charge me $5 each. That was weeks ago, and they haven't arrived and my credit card was never charged. What a way to do business.

Come on SleepWarehouse. Please. Pretty please with sugar on it, send me the samples I requested.
This message was modified Sep 22, 2007 by haysdb
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Foamex samples received today from SleepWarehouse
Reply #6 Sep 22, 2007 6:37 PM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
I received the samples today.

Thank you SleepWarehouse!

Hey, the least I can do is thank them publicly. They not only sent samples of four different foams, but these are really good samples. 1" thick by 12" square.
I have received samples from just three other places: SleepAid, FoamFactory, and Vitalityweb.


I'm impressed with the Foamex  Venus. The Sensus is nice too, but the Venus is really something special. Keep in mind that this is VERY unscientific:
  1. I placed both the Sensus and Venus in the freezer for 30 minutes. Both were stiff, but neither was what I would call "frozen". Each was folded once and "scrunched". Both were still pliable when removed from the freezer, but my impression was that the Venus foam retained more of the thawed feel than the Sensus. Somewhat interesting is that it took longer to warm up. It still felt cold long after the Sensus had returned to room temperature. Perhaps this is nothing more than density related.

  2. Venus is claimed to be more permeable than "traditional visco." My incredibly unscientific test was to put my mouth to each foam and blow. With the Sensus, I felt resistance, with the Venus, I felt very little. Despite the higher density, Venus "breathes" considerably better than Sensus. I do not have a microscope, but under a magnifying glass, it's obvious that the Venus has a VERY open cell structure, and the cells appear to be much larger than the Sensus. This surprises me. I would have expected smaller cells on the higher density foam.

  3. "Hand print" recovery times for the two foams is essentially identical. Put a hand print in the samples and they recover at an equal rate. However, the Venus recovers more completely. The Sensus retains small impressions where the foam was compressed the most. It recovers, it just takes some seconds, whereas the Venus recovers completely without the telltale little craters. Despite all the squishing and freezing and crushing, the surface of the Sensus is still flawless - no signs of permanent damage.

  4. "Foot Crush" recovery time: With my size 14 tennis shoes on, I stood on the sample of Sensus on one leg, all of my 240 pounds, for 1 minute. This is pretty extreme; It's hard to crush a piece of foam any more completely. It had mostly recovered in a minute, but it was about a minute and 40 seconds before I could no longer see any evidence of my footprint. The Venus mostly recovered from the crushing in 30 seconds, and within 40 seconds there wasn't even the telltale sign that it has been completely crushed. A funny little sound the Venus made when I raised my foot was the sound of pulling a foot out of the mud.

  5. "Chamois Ringer" recovery times: This is starting to get abusive. :-) I folded the samples in half, rolled the folded foam them into a roll, crushed it with both hands, then twisted it like I was wringing the water out of a chamois. The Sensus had "mostly recovered" in about a minute and a half, but it was 3 minutes before it had recovered completely. The Venus looked good as new 60 seconds later.
Both of these are obviously very high quality foams. Fine and even cell structures with few voids, and tough. After all of my abuse, there isn't a single sign of distress on either of these samples.

Surprisingly, I would guess the Venus to have a lower ILD than the Sensus. The Venus has a very "plush" surface feel to it, and yet the density gives it a very "supportive" feel. Foamex claims a support factor of 3.3, and I believe it.

http://www.foamex.com/venus.htm
http://www.foamex.com/news/venus_pr.php
This message was modified Sep 22, 2007 by haysdb
Energia
Reply #7 Sep 22, 2007 8:03 PM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
I also received samples of 4 lb and 5 lb Energia. These samples are 2.5" thick, by 12" square. If I'm reading the numbers on the foam correctly, the 4 lb is an ID 27 (Firm), the 5 lb is an ILD 35 (X-Firm). They also offer an ILD 16 (Plush) foam which I did not request a sample of.

What Foamex says about Energia:

Energia™ is the first comfort material to successfully marry high resilience with luxurious, shape-conforming comfort to create a distinctively restorative sleep experience.

I wish I had samples of PU foam to compare the Energia to, but I don't.

It is extremely dense compared to any other PU foam I am familiar with. The highest density PU foam I have ever even heard of for bedding applications is 3.2 lb, and here are 4 lb and 5 lb foams. Foamex claims superior durability and I have no reason to doubt it. My Energia samples have very fine and consistant cell structures (very similar to Sensus), and a very open cell structure.

I don't know what Foamex means by "the shape conforming comfort of memory foams". This is a very "fast" and resilient foam, without any sort of memory foam feel. It feels a little like latex, but a bit less resilient and has a "quicker" feel to it.

Resilience: My totally unscientific ball rebound test used a baseball. I had to throw the ball noticeably harder into the 2.5" thick Energia than I did into the 2.8" thick latex, in order for it to bounce back to the height I released it from. If latex has a ball rebound of 60%, Energia is probably around 50%. The ILD of the Energia is 35, the measured ILD of my latex, 38. Resilience is not a measure of quality, so I'm not claiming any superiority for latex just because the ball bounced higher, I'm just trying to compare the characteristics of the two materials.

Speed: I don't have any way to substantiate this. When I smack my hand against the foam, my perception is that latex has a bit more of a "damped" quality to it, but this could just be the sample size. The Energia is a 12x12 square, whereas the latex is 6'x7' square.

I think Energia could be used successfully as a less expensive substitute for latex. It's PU foam, but it does appear to be a very high quality PU foam. However, a 3" layer of ILD 35 in a Cal King size costs $400, so it's priced only 25% to 30% less than latex.

A 2" or 3" topper of ILD 16 Energia could be a reasonable alternative to latex or memory foam. A 2" topper costs $220 for a king.
This message was modified Sep 22, 2007 by haysdb
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #8 Sep 23, 2007 9:25 AM
MequonJim
Location: Mequon, WI
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 363
Thanks for the excellent reviews haysdb!

What about smells, did you notice any off gassing or odors?

The Venus sounds like a great product.  I think I would like that better than Sensus (and I really like Sensus).  The durability could be incredible.

I'm leary of energia.  This is a replacement for resilitex.  However, it sounds pretty similar.  Just so everyone knows, I own resilitex in the "medium" and "firm".  It is dense, but it is not durable.  It felt great for a year.  Then it cratered.  Resilitex was discontinued and some time after, energia came on the scene.  I have my doubts that it will be as great as it sounds.  However, I hope to be proven that it is.  It would be nice to have a durable alternative to latex for people building their own mattresses.
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #9 Sep 23, 2007 12:46 PM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
Something I don't think I mentioned, or emphasized enough, is that Venus is obscenely expensive. $600 for 2" in a king size at the time of this writing. There is a guy on eBay, believe it or not, that's selling it for a bit less than that. Oh, and it's a special-order foam and non-returnable. This later fact is one reason I thought someone here needed to take a look at it.

Foamex claims Energia retains 99% of it's height, and loses less than 1 point of IFD after 50,000 cycles of 80% compression, but I don't know how valid these roller tests are. It's an industry standard test, I believe, but I don't think you can ignore the impact of TIME on the longevity of a foam, so we don't really know the durability of any foam that hasn't been in the field for many many years.
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #10 Sep 23, 2007 1:18 PM
Benjammin
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Points: 19
I'm not sure what Foamex's strategy is regarding Venus. It's positioned as a luxury item, but I don't know that they have really promoted it well. Does anyone know if it's featured prominently in premium mattresses?

From the ebay source, Venus for 2" is about $200 more than 3" of Sensus in a king pad. It would be interesting to compare the comfort of those two foams. Would an inch less of Venus be more comfortable than Sensus?
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #12 Sep 23, 2007 6:49 PM
Benjammin
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Points: 19
I thought it had been out for a year or so. I had seen a few of those companies before in searching for Venus. Once you know how much the various layers cost plus given what a cover might cost, there is a heck of a lot of markup found on traditional mattresses.
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #13 Sep 23, 2007 6:57 PM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
MequonJim wrote:
What about smells, did you notice any off gassing or odors?

Unfortunately I can't help you there. My sense of smell is not acute.


This is "anecdotal" at best, but I'm using three of the layers of Foamex foam I got from Sleep Warehouse as a seat cushion. My chair never has gone high enough for me, so I thought I would give it a try.  2.5" of ILD 35, 1" of Sensus, and finally 1" of Venus. I have been sitting here for an hour and my backside actually feels quite cool. Cooler than the fabric cushioned chair.

Something I find interesting is that even sitting on 4.5" of high density foam, it's not any too much. I've never thought about what the IFD of an office chair seat cushion would have to be, but it would have to be pretty darn high to avoid bottoming out. I'm thinking 44 at a minimum. Anyone know?

BTW, the 12" square pieces aren't really big enough for a permanent seat cushion. :-)
This message was modified Sep 23, 2007 by haysdb
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #14 Nov 27, 2007 12:48 PM
haysdb
Foam Nerd
Location: USA
Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Points: 605
SleepWarehouse customer service strikes again.

On Nov 16 I ordered a 2" topper of soft latex. I received a confirmation email that my order had been received and my account successfully charged...and not a peep out of them since. I called today to check on the status and...they have no record of my order.

My issue has been escalated to a supervisor who is supposed to call me back.

This would not be the first time a company's online order system has been connected to a black hole. I should have called sooner.
Re: SleepWarehouse - Samples of 4 Foamex foams
Reply #15 Nov 27, 2007 9:01 PM
ericgl
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Points: 53
Now I am concerned about my FBM order I placed a week ago.
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