The FrankenBed
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I initially called my creation the FrankenBed because it was made from "parts." The word is taking on a new meaning, as in, I am creating a monster. The basic outline was a latex core, an Intelli-Gel topper from MyComfort, and something in between, possibly 2" of Foamex memory foam. The first major piece to arrive (not counting the foundation on top of a set of Bed Beams), is the latex core. I'll get the Intelli-Gel topper on Monday or Tuesday. I think I might already have a problem. I ordered an ILD 40 Talatech blend core, and I don't think it's going to be firm enough. I initially ordered a 44 but then changed my mind and went with a 40. I should have stayed with the 44. The core actually tested out at an average ILD of 37.8, but I'm not claiming the 2 points is what makes it too soft. Even on 3 2.8" layers, I can bottom out by sitting down on it hard. It's sitting on a concrete floor covered with carpet and I can definitely feel the floor. At the very least, I need to replace one of the ILD 38 layers, and possibly both. I can't bottom out all 4 layers, but that's 11" of latex, and support-wise, it feels pretty soft. Laying on my back, it feels very firm, but it feels like my butt sinks down further than it should. In other words it's almost too soft AND too firm at the same time. Too soft for my butt but too firm for my shoulders. Y'all can go ahead and laugh at me now for thinking I could save money by building my own mattress. Not happenin'. The best that can be said is that maybe my own mistakes can benefit others. I'm debating on what to do. I can be stubborn and order another core, or I can just admit that I made a bad decision and order a support mattress from someone that allows comfort exchanges. I have to allow that even the 44 might not be firm enough, so a money back guarantee would be a good idea too, the second time around. I have some decisions to make. This message was modified Sep 18, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: The FrankenBed
| Post a picture, I gotta see that. |
Re: The FrankenBed
| I feel your pain. That's part of the reason I chickened out and went with their pocket bed (of course the other reason is because I'm cheap.) i just hope I don't regret not buying their topper like yours and their coil core. If the pocket bed is too firm, I'm not sure how I can soften it up. With the other option, I could always put a layer of latex under the topper. I wonder if placing a 1" layer of soft latex on top of the gel would negate the gel's benefit. You could always buy their coil core for $1K, and then sell your latex core. I sure wonder when mine will get here. It may be "in my head", but since I've been looking at beds, mine seems worse every night. |
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That is too bad that you got a core which tested at the lower end of the ILD range for that target ILD. If you had run closer to 42 ILD, you might have survived this. It could be that 2 of your layers are firmer than 37.8 (because your mattress came from two cores). It is too bad you don't have the label for those two. It must have been glued over at the end, or cut off and glued on the end of another Cal King component. If memoryfoam.com was still selling their 44 ILD LI foam, I would suggest using them because you could return it. However they removed that from their website and only sell 28 ILD now. As far as I am aware, there is no other retailer selling 44 ILD with a return policy. I did contact LI about this, but never got a response from them. I am in a similar tough situation as you. I only built half of my Eastern King size mattress before memoryfoam.com dropped the 44 ILD talatech. Now I am stuck with a twin XL for a bed. I do have a second half, but it is not what I want. I'm guessing 44 ILD would be supportive enough for you, but without a return policy, I can't say go for it. Good luck in your quest. This message was modified Sep 19, 2007 by MequonJim
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I will wait to see how the ILD 38 core feels under the Intelli-Gel before taking the next step. SleepEz feels like my best bet for a 2 layer (model 7000), 2.5 layer (8500), or 3 layer (model 10000) support mattress. Maybe Shawn will take pitty on me and sell me an 8500 or 10000 with a credit for one layer of latex. I can surely use one of my 38 layers. I'd like a real casing for the latex. The velour cover will certainly work, but I'd just rather have something that looks like a real mattress. FYI, the Latex Mattress Company and Mattresses.net (which appear to be the same company), also offer a solid core talalay (Radium) mattress for a pretty reasonable price In either case the price is not a lot more than I paid for my raw core, and you get a nice mattress cover, which would be worth the difference to me. Something else I'm also going to "need" is a low profile foundation. I wanted to lose about 2" over my current mattress and boxsprings, but that's not going to happen. I thought I could get by with just a 5.6" core and the 4" Intelli-Gel topper, and a standard height foundation, but I don't think that's quite going to happen. I should have lived with my existing foundation until I got my mattress sorted out rather than buying the BSA wood slat foundation. The good news there is I'm only out $230 for that, and can maybe sell that to get some of my money back. I didn't want to spend $500 to $800 for a foundation, but I don't see much in the way of alternatives. |
Re: The FrankenBed
I called FloBeds to ask about low profile foundations (they clearly have the best selection of foam mattress foundations on the Internet) and have decided to give one of their Euro slat foundations a try.
This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: The FrankenBed
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donw wrote: I feel your pain. That's part of the reason I chickened out and went with their pocket bed (of course the other reason is because I'm cheap.) i just hope I don't regret not buying their topper like yours and their coil core. If the pocket bed is too firm, I'm not sure how I can soften it up. With the other option, I could always put a layer of latex under the topper. I wonder if placing a 1" layer of soft latex on top of the gel would negate the gel's benefit. You could always buy their coil core for $1K, and then sell your latex core. I sure wonder when mine will get here. It may be "in my head", but since I've been looking at beds, mine seems worse every night. I don't think it will be too firm. Intelli-Gel is such a new-fangled material that it's hard putting it's effect into terms we can relate to. The terms density and IFD just don't apply to Intelli-Gel, just as they don't apply to coils, and yet I think we have to think of Intelli-Gel as a 4" topper, and essentially an entire mattress support layer. One of the support mattresses MyComfort sells is nothing more than a Leggett & Platt continuous coil innerspring with what appears to be 1" of foam on top followed by a stretch-knit cover. The topper lays right on top of that. That's essentially what you will have with the PocketGEL, except that your coil unit will be a pocketed coil, and therefore probably a little less firm than the two-part system. Another MyComfort support mattress is an air unit with basically NOTHING on top between the air bladders and the topper. It's clear that the ticking, Intelli-Gel, and thin layer of foam that the Intelli-Gel is bonded to, comprises pretty much the entire comfort layer. Good question about whether anything placed over the Intelli-Gel would negate it's benefit. I think it would. I think you need to sleep fairly close to it in order to get the full effect. If anything I think a layer of 1" foam over top the Intelli-Gel would make it FIRMER, not softer, unless it was a very soft topper. Having the two part system will allow some flexibility. The feel of the mattress could be changed significantly with just a 1" or 2" layer of something between the topper and the support mattress. I am getting anxious. My topper is in town now and will be delivered Tuesday if I don't find a way to pick it up myself tomorrow. Update: I no longer consider the Intelli-Gel topper to comprise the entire comfort layer, at least not for side-sleepers. More on this in a later post. This message was modified Oct 10, 2007 by haysdb
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I picked up the MyComfort Intelli-Gel topper at lunch. It's in the back of my truck so I can't give any impressions yet. It was shipped flat in a cardboard box on a pallet. A guy at the freight company helped me pull the bands off and take it out of the box so I could get it in my truck. It will definitely be an unwieldy thing to move - 150 lbs of wet noodle. The bottom side is a fairly aggressive anti-skid material, the sides and top are a stretch-knit fabric. It's still in the plastic so that's all I can say about the cover at this point. I'm excited to finally have it. It has been a long wait. Tonight I will put it on top my IFD 38 LI Talatech core and sleep on it. I will add another layer of something to the support mattress, but what that something is will depend on how it feels. This is where I have the opportunity to do some final tuning. |
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| LOL! I have this image of you in the back of your truck all stretched out on your topper! Hope it works out for you. |
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Get this folks: They sent me the wrong size. They sent me an Eastern King. What I ordered was a California King. How does this happen? I believe I have alluded to the fact that his company seems to be a bit, "disorganized," and this is further proof. First they lose my order for near on two weeks, then I wait ANOTHER two weeks only to receive the wrong size. I don't even have the packing material any more. I left it at the freight office. I didn't notice it was the wrong size (it never once crossed my mind) until I got it home and was taking it out of the truck and saw Eastern King on the packing. I went ahead and brought it inside and, yup, sure enough, wrong king. The guy I placed the order with no longer works for the company. Well, I have always been a firm believer in "stuff happens," and I don't care what happened or who screwed up, but what are you going to do about it? The new manager of the Arizona store inherits a fine problem. Let's see how they handle it. This message was modified Sep 25, 2007 by a moderator
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I just got off the phone with Devin (sp) from MyComfort. He has promised to ship out a Cal King topper ASAP. When it's delivered the freight company will pick up the other topper. Devin asked what I would like him to throw in for my trouble, so I weaseled a seat cushion out of him. Was thinking about buying one of those anyway. ;-) I was a bit miffed earlier, but MyComfort is handling the problem professionally and appropriately, and like I said, stuff happens. Meanwhile the E King topper is taking up most of my living room. This message was modified Sep 25, 2007 by haysdb
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I slept on my new "mattress" last night. The Intelli-Gel didn't do anything to make my latex core feel more supportive, no surprise there, so I need at least one layer of 44. Slightly more surprising is that the Intelli-Gel topper won't quite be the entire comfort layer. So in addition to additional support, I need something more conforming under the topper than the IFD 38 latex. This will either be a softer latex (32? 28?) or memory foam. The flexible slat foundation should be here tomorrow. Presumably that will effect the feel a little bit. |
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haysdb wrote: Slightly more surprising is that the Intelli-Gel topper won't quite be the entire comfort layer. How thick is the gel portion of your topper? Are you primarily a side, stomach, or back sleeper? Thanks for sharing your experiences with this product. |
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I am a 100% side sleeper. The Intelli-Gel in the MyComfort topper is 2.25" thick. It sits on 1" of polyurethane foam. The quilted top adds another 1/2". This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: The FrankenBed
| haysdb, too bad about your topper. Did you say it was ordered from Arizona? Mesa AZ is where I went to order my bed. I called the other day to check on my order, and the guy said he was the new manager. Mine is supposed to be in town tomorrow - I sure hope my order is correct. |
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| When I went to the website to find a dealer, the number I was given happened to be the Arizona location. The topper was actually shipped from a manufacturing or fabrication facility in Salt Lake City Utah. |
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[These next two posts were originally here, but they belong in this thread so I moved them.] tossnturn wrote: So is this a current result of your frankenbed? Any chance of posting some photos? What changes in your purchases would you make '20/20' ? Is the bed heavy with the comfort layer and the mattress core? What is [so far] sleep temp of that layer? With the slat foundation, what is the overall height? Will it fit a headboard? Are you still adjusting it? What pillow seems to work best with your bed so far ? Thanks for all the research time you've put in and posted information.. It will look like a typical mattress when I'm done. Right now it looks like the "prototype" that it is -- Eastern King Intelli-Gel topper sitting on top of naked Cal King latex cores, sitting on top the flexible slat foundation, sitting on the floor of my living room. Once I get a proper mattress cover and the right size Intelli-Gel topper, it will be pretty ordinary looking. This is an image from the Intelli-Gel website:  It is pretty heavy. The flexible slat foundation shipped in three boxes totaling 189 lbs. The Intelli-Gel topper weighs 150 lbs. The latex core weighs ~90 lbs. The total height of the final product will be 19 to 20 inches:
I am still working on it, but I'm pretty close. The "zoning" of the flexible slat foundation has my spine in pretty good alignment, but the Intelli-Gel sitting directly on the ILD 38 latex is a skosh too firm, so I'm contemplating 2" of either memory foam or latex as the top layer of the support mattress. The only pillow I have slept with so far is a Tempur-Pedic body pillow. I sleep on my side and I'm a pillow hugger. I have a RejuveNite (Latex International) shredded latex and down pillow coming Real Soon Now. This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by haysdb
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[This post was originally in this thread, but it belongs in this thread so I moved it.] tossnturn wrote: Thanks for your hard work. Are there 'feet' on the slat foundation? You mentioned to get more of the full 'slat' feeling, a thinner core mattress could be used. Based on your recent discoveries and experience. You would still buy the adjustable slat foundation, mycomfort gel layer, but a thinner core mattress [med or firm?], with a HR foam layer UNDER the gel, but above the core mattress? You seem very close at this point, once it 'fits' a zippered mattress cover will enclose it all. Will you need deep pocket sheets? I think reg is up to 10 inches, deep is up to 15', and very deep up to 18-20', depending on brand. I did not get any feet with my foundation. I did not request any. I upgraded my bed frame to a set of 3 "Bed Beams" which will support the weight of an elephant. However, since the flexible slat foundation is comprised of three sections bolted together, and because the Bed Beams do not provide the recommended center support running head to foot, and because FloBeds recommends 5 slats, two under each head and foot sections, I may add back the two original cross supports I replaced to bring the total to 5. That seems like massive overkill, but they are just going in the trash otherwise so I might as well use them. I definitely like the flexible slat foundation, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to like the Intelli-Gel topper once I get the right amount of cush underneath. The support mattress could be anything. MyComfort sells innerspring, air and memory foam support mattresses that are specifically designed to be used under their Intelli-Gel overlays. I'm doing latex because I liked the feel of Intelli-Bed's $4000 latex mattress. You could do all Pulyurethane, with maybe a layer of HR, or even the more conventional 2.2 or 1.8 lb foam, on the very bottom for the support core and then something like 4 lb Energia (ILD 27), or memory foam, under the overlay. I can't begin to recommend any one of these over another because I haven't tried them all, and you might like something different anyway. The total thickness of the two "mattress" layers will be ~13". My current sheets will fit, but there is no way my fitted sheets will tuck in along the sides because they don't already and my current mattress is only 12" thick, so I will probably buy a couple of deeper fitted sheets. This message was modified Sep 30, 2007 by haysdb
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Intelli-Gel overlay
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This ties in with information in this thread, but is here because it specifically relates to the queer way that I'm using my Intelli-Gel "comfort overlay." And before anyone goes off on me, I am not asserting that my creation is superior to an Intelli-Bed or MyComfort mattress. It's just different, OK? The thing I was most interested in was what was attached to what inside the ticking.
I bought the Intelli-Gel overlay hoping to incorporate the Intelli-Gel into my mattress, as just another layer of "stuff" zipped inside a cover. My idea was that when you looked at my mattress, you would see just that - a mattress, and not layers of foam with a skinny mattress stacked on top. Having the Intelli-Gel be a separate "mattress" DOES have it's advantages, namely that a King-size topper weighs 150 lbs. You heard me right. Stack that on top of 90 to 135 lbs of latex, and you have a heavy mattress that would NOT be fun to move as a single mattress. The Intelli-Gel could be removed from the zippered cover for transport, but then you have the very real concern of damaging the foam under and around the Intelli-Gel. But the bottom line is it would easy to slide the Intelli-Gel out of the nice stretch knit topper and lay it right on top of a layer of latex inside a zippered cover. And that's the direction I'm heading.
This message was modified Sep 29, 2007 by haysdb
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I think the Intelli-Gel topper needs some additional inches of "comfort layer" between it and the support core for a side sleeper. I have slept four nights now on the Intelli-Gel placed directly over an ILD 38 core, and have experienced some numbness in the arm I'm laying on. I have been debating over what to use. There are at least 8 companies selling a 2" latex topper [1], but only two in anything above a "soft" (22 ILD or less). Since this is a "middle" layer rather than the top-most layer, I think a soft would just be too soft. I ordered a 2" layer of ILD 32 talalay from Foam By Mail. They have a satisfaction guarantee in the event it's too firm. I have found no one selling an ILD 28 topper, so if the 32 is too firm, the next step will have to be a 24. [1] Foam Source, Foam By Mail, Absolute Comfort on Sale, Faom Online, Foam Order, Memory Foam, Sleep Warehouse, and Mattresses.net all offer 2" latex toppers. This message was modified Oct 1, 2007 by haysdb
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The 2" ILD 32 latex topper arrived today. My first thought when comparing it to the ILD 38 layers I have is that it was not going to be enough softer to notice, but it is. The feel of the mattress is still "firm" but I experience more of a floating feeling now when I lay on my side. The next step down from the 32 is a 24, as I have never come across an ILD 28 latex topper. My concern, as before, is that would just be too soft, but maybe it wouldn't be as long as the core was properly supportive. In my case along with the slightly more conforming 2" topper is the return of the sinking hips feeling. As I soften up the top, I need to firm up the support layers, so I have asked Dewey if he will sell me an ILD 44 to try. I might also ask Shawn at SleepEZ if he has an ILD 44 dunlop core. If dunlop truly has a higher support factor (something I have never been able to confirm, but it makes sense that it would), then it would be ideally suited to a bottom layer application. I am also anxious to experience the difference between talalay and dunlop first hand. I am really close. I could be very happy with what I have now. I have been sleeping on just the Intelli-Gel over the ILD 38 core for two weeks, and could have lived with that. I have been sleeping through the night and not waking up with any significant aches or pains. But "good enough" isn't why I started this journey, so the quest for "perfection" continues. Interestingly the question of whether 1" of latex or memory foam would make any significant difference arises. I feel like I'm close, really close, and I'm looking for only a very subtle increase in softness. This may be where I get to throw a bit of memory foam into the mix. Conventional wisdom aside, not all memory foam needs body heat. And for this reason, does not have to be used as the top layer in a mattress. I visited a Verlo mattress factory a couple of weeks ago and they use a 1" layer of memory foam between two 1.5" layers of latex in one of their mattresses. This message was modified Oct 10, 2007 by haysdb
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| That 1" 20 ILD FoamByMail has tempted me. I also wonder if 1" would do much. I wish they had a 1.5". |
Re: The FrankenBed
| My Cal King topper arrived today from MyComfort. The shipping company took the E King to ship back. |
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I have been sleeping on the 2" of ILD 32 under the Intelli-Gel topper for a few days now and it's just not conforming enough. Support is fine, no issues there. The thing about the Intelli-Gel is that it is actually very firm in areas where there isn't enough localized pressure to collapse the columns, so it needs something soft under it. That's my working theory anyway. The $64,000 question is how much and of what. The next step down from ILD 32, that I can get at a reasonable price, is ILD 20. MyComfort uses 2.8" of this soft latex in their Single-Gel with latex, so maybe I shouldn't be so "afraid" of it. OTOH Intell-Bed's latex mattress is too soft, so I know it's possible to go too far in that direction. FoamByMail offers 1" talalay, so that's where I think I'm heading. It's what I should have done the first time. 1" of 32 and 1" of 20 would have given me two choices of firmness between 32 which I figured would probably be too firm, and 20 which I figured would be too soft. I could have added one more layer to fine-tune and gotten it exactly right without having to return anything. |
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My new toppers arrived today. Rather than just piling them on top of the stack, I pulled out one of the two layers of ILD 40, leaving the 2" of ILD 32, and added the two 1" toppers. One was supposed to be a 32 and the other a 20, but they feel the same to me, both soft, so it looks like they sent me two layers of 20. That's OK. The net effect is I should have softened up my mattress by a LOT. I want to feel what too soft feels like, then I can firm things back up if need be. I'm trying to keep the mattress to about 12", which gives me up to 8" of latex plus 4" of Intelli-Gel topper and quilted mattress cover. 2.0" 32 --> 2.0" 20 2.8" 40 --> 2.0" 32 2.8" 40 --> 2.8" 40 --------- --------- 7.6" 6.8" There are several other combinations I can try if this is too soft, including:
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Re: The FrankenBed
I am now committed to a mattress cover for everything, so I know what I have left to play with in terms of foam layers. I am going to remove the Intelli-Gel overlay from its cover and put it inside the same cover as everything else. This gives me a cover with wool quilted into the cover rather than foam, which might help it sleep a little cooler, and it gets rid of the vinyl layer under the Intelli-Gel. Right or wrong, I just don't like that sheet of plastic in my mattress. I suspect one reason they used vinyl is because of the weight of the Intelli-Gel, which is around 150 lbs for my Cal King. This could pose a problem for me in handling the Intelli-Gel outside the cover, but I'll just have to deal with that.
I'm told I can fit a maximum of 12" of foam inside my new cover, so I have up to 3" available to play with between the support core and the Intelli-Gel overlay. And herein lies my current dillema. I have two 1" layers of (ostensibly) ILD 20 latex. I would like a bit more cushion. The following options are under consideration:
I am leaning toward 2" of memory foam from a company offering at least a 30-day comfort guarantee. After all, I don't know if I will even like it. FoamByMail is the least expensive "good" 5# foam I am aware of, but I sure do like the Foamex memory foams. But since this is an "inner layer" of the mattress, it's hard to justify the higher cost for the incremental increase in quality. This message was modified Oct 26, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: The FrankenBed
This has been a long and sometimes painful journey, but I believe I have finally arrived at a configuration I'm satisfied with.
This represents a $2500 mattress and foundation. Not cheap, but this buys a nice flexible slat foundation, 6" of Talalay latex, an Intelli-Gel topper from MyComfort, and a nice stretch-knit cotton and wool case. I expect it to last a good long time. This message was modified Dec 13, 2007 by haysdb
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| With that amount of cost, do you regret not just getting a Sleepez 10,000 or 13000 model? |
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novahelp wrote: With that amount of cost, do you regret not just getting a Sleepez 10,000 or 13000 model? That's certainly a fair question. I regret spending as much money as I did, but I'm pleased with what I have ended up with, and I learned a lot along the way. |
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haysdb, did I miss your review of your new 2" <20ILD layer?? Did you think it was softer than the FBM 20 or about the same? Did you like having the 1" 20ILD over the gel or under it? This message was modified Dec 14, 2007 by donw
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donw wrote: haysdb, did I miss your review of your new 2" <20ILD layer?? Did you think it was softer than the FBM 20 or about the same? Did you like having the 1" 20ILD over the gel or under it? The 2" of ILD 16-18 natural talalay from Sleep Warehouse feels exactly the same to me as the two 1" layers I have from FBM, one of which is supposed to be an ILD 20 and the other an ILD 32. To be honest, I don't know what I actually have, and I have no way to find out. I'm happy with the current configuration (3" ILD 40 as a support layer, 3" ILD 20, then the Intelli-Gel overlay), but I still have two more to try. For tonight I have added the "spare" 1-inch layer on top, just under the fitted sheet. If that's too soft, I can remove 1" from under, leaving 2" under and 1" on top. |