Mattress Forum

Adding a topper

Does the latex soften over time? I mean if the latex is supposed to have a medium feel then does it become softer after sleeping in for some time?

Latex is a lot more durable than other foams so it's (hopefully) not too likely it will get much softer. Perhaps a little ... or he may "get used to it".

Can he buy a latex topper and place it on the top of this latex mattress?

Yes

If so, What ILD latex will give him a softer feel?

The ILD and thickness would depend on his weight, sleeping positions, and what feels soft to him. Everyone is different.

And which latex will be better? Dunlop latex or Talalay latex?

They are just different, one is not "better" than another. Having said that, Talalay comes in softer versions than Dunlop and there are probably more people who prefer it in a topper than Dunlop. Again though his personal preference may be different.

What places will provide good quality and value for this latex topper?

There are lots but a few of them (for Talalay at least) are listed here

If not latex can he get a memory foam and what kind and from where?

He can ... but whether it would be better or preferable would be up to him. Memory foam is confusing and very "complicated" in terms of choosing between a gazillion different types ... some of which are junk and some of which are better quality. Most places don't tell you who manufacturers their memory foam so you often don't know what you are really buying but in general the memory foams made by Foamex (usually Aerus and Sensus) are among the better ones. There are some others as well and some research on the forum will probably "point you in the right direction".

Phoenix

Part of the problem with this is that if you believe for example that the "soft" latex you bought was really soft (say 20 and it was really 30) ... then you would be unlikely to purchase a real 20 ILD topper because you believed that was what you already had and wasn't working for you when it in reality could solve the problem you were having. This may lead to a long round of choices that never seem to work because your first assumption (that you have tried soft latex) is not correct. Your "reference point" for testing any future toppers can then become so distorted that any choices based on this end up disappointing.

The only time I would buy from an outlet where their accuracy is in question (FBM, Overstock etc) would be if it really didn't matter if what you got was what you ordered and if you knew ahead of time that mistakes in what they sent are a more likely cause of why it feels too firm than "choosing the wrong ILD".

The risks involved in buying from outlets like these are why I consider them to be poor value even though they are sometimes (not always) less expensive. Without luck, you are at the mercy of a coin flip.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix for detailed reply. You are invaluable asset to this forum. Thanks again.

I agree with Phoenix that the FBM soft is probably firmer than the 20ILD they indicate.  That is based on other peoples comments, since I have never tried it.   It is possible that they process is really more like dunlop and not talalay.

I tried a feather bed once and ended up returning it.  It added more "fluff" than I like, and it really did not add support.   I just sank through it and bottomed out on the layer below.  It was a pretty good one too, if the details were accurate.  Small duck body feathers with a layer of down on top.
 

You may want to consider soft talalay from latex international.   Sleeplikeabear seems like the main place that sells 14 and 19 ILD blended.  The 100% natural is usually firmer than 20, but still might be softer than the FBM 20.

p.s. FBM stands for foambymail.com.

Thanks Phoenix but more questions as I gave this print out to my friend.

1.   Why add a topper?

He is 2 minds about keeping the bed and returning it. In other words he is not sure about whether keep the bed and add a topper OR just returning the bed! and getting a complete new one wholly made from Talalay latex since the one he has is made from Dunlop latex which is so hard(firm). 

About keeping the bed and adding a topper - he thinks the firm bed gives him a firm support base since it is all Dunlop and he can add a topper and make it softer.

And since the bed will only soften very little over time he can just add a topper and keep changing the toppers only?

2.  How the Bed feels to him now -

A.  He keeps waking through out night due to hardness(firmness) of the bed! He has had the bed only for 1 week now!

He says the bed feels less firm when he lays on it in the begining but soon it starts to feel harder(firmer). 

3.  He has several questions about toppers.

First The background:  He is 6 feet inch tall, says he weighs 225 pounds and usually sleeps sideways.

A. He is wanting to know the thickness of topper he should get - 1 inch/2inch/3inch or more?

B. Pure talalay latex or blended talalay?

C. What ILD Talalay latex would be suitable?

Without testing and laying down on a topper he is not sure about buying from internet?

4.  Are there any stores in Dallas-Ft Worth metroplex that sell Talalay toppers? So he can go and lay down on them and see what suits him best?

 Thanks so much.

If you do a search for "Dallas" or "Texas" you will get a couple of lists that includes local manufacturers and retail outlets that sell latex.

Phoenix

Hi Phoenix, I am the person who puchased this Dunlop Mattress.

It is 1" of 18 ILD on top then the next layer below is 2" of 24 ILD, below it is 6" of 24-32 ILD.  I called the company that makes it and first the person who picked the phone told me that the mattress is medium feel but that is not what I am feeling after trying hard to sleep on it since last week.

 ( I asked him who makes their dunlop and he would not tell me!

So I called their showroom and the sales person did not know who makes their latex! Then he called me later and said it was a company called LATEXCO.

So I called LATEXCO. And they have 2 offices one in East an done on West coast. I called the one in East and asked him if this company sources their latex from you - he replied that it does not ring a bell!

Then he told me LATEXCO DOES NOT MAKE DUNLOP LATEX!

I then called the West Coast office of Latexco and the salesperson told me LATEXCO MAKES DUNLOP LATEX. But he does not think LATEXCO sources their latex to the company I bought this DUNLOP LATEX BED FROM!

The whole thing is starting to sound fishy. )

I had the mattress for only a few days. I have a wollen mattress pad on it and a 400 thread count Egyptian cotton sheet on it.

Since the day I had this all supossedly Dunlop mattress, I have not gotten a decent sleep. It feels okay when I lay on it just for a couple

of seconds and then the matress begins to press against my body. Honestly, it feels firm, really firm. I am tossing and turning every minute and I am half awake all night. 

Should I return the mattress or should I spend more money and Add a topper. I have never slept on Talalay latex before so I would like to get a topper from place that takes the returns. What places do you know of that do that?

My Statistics are: weight 225 lbs, height 6 feet 1 inches, side sleeper, health issues are low backpain and neck pain.

Thank you very much Phoenix ;)

What brand is your mattress ... who did you buy it from?

I am not aware of any Dunlop latex that is 18 ILD and even 24 in Dunlop is usually considered soft so the first thing to do is confirm what actual ILD and type of latex is in your mattress. Once you know this it will be much easier to decide where to go next.

A wool pad will likely make the latex firmer as well. Some will make it quite a bit firmer ... some only a little firmer. Anything that isn't "stretchy" on top will do this.

Searching "dallas" or "Texas" in the forum will give you a list of outlets that sell latex.

Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix. What do you suggest I put on the top f the mattress? Any topper at all? What kind of sheets?

It is made by a company called Innomax. The name of the mattress is "white night". On their web site it describes ILDs of this mattress. 1" of 18 ILD, 2" of 24 ILD, and 6" of 28-32 ILD. On the mattress tag it does not even say what kind of latex it is. Just that it is 94% latex and 6% cloth. When I called Innomax they said it is Dunlop latex but I have No tags on mattress or any literature from the company that says it is Dunlop latex.

I am worried as whole thing is getting confusing. Could SOMEONE CALL INNOMAX and ASK THEM What latex if ANY is used in this mattress? May be they will give him/her a better reply.  Thanks.

Since you said that 18 LD or 24 ILD are soft but they make up only the top 1 inch and the next layer 2 inch of the mattress. So why is this mattress so firm? When I lay on it it feels firm but not too firm but soon it starts to feel firm to the point I am tossing and turning in the bed to get some relief and I lie half awake in the bed all night.  When I get up I look at my face in the mirror and I look really tired.This thing is getting me really worried.

Thanks you Phoenix.

The first step is to confirm what is actually in it. If it is Talalay, then it would be (and feel) softer than if it is Dunlop.

My phone will be tied up for a few hours but once it is free I will try to confirm which it is. Then it will be easier to decide what to do next.

Latex itself sometimes feels firmer to some people than others (especially those that are used to cheap soft polyfoam) and what feels "firm" to you would be "too soft" for someone else. At your weight, normally a higher ILD will feel softer than someone who weighs less but this is clearly not the case for you.

Being a side sleeper, you may just need another inch or two of soft Talalay to allow your "bony parts" to sink in a little more but before anything else it would make sense to confirm what you already have.

No matter what it is ... it is a nice mattress ... but I understand the frustrations of not being able to get accurate information.

Phoenix

Phoenix I bought this matress from Sams Club and it is made by Innomax and called white night. But the description on sams club and on innomax web site are different and none tells whether it is dunlop or Talalay or blended or what it is really.

Innomax salespeople did not seem confident about what type of latex the matress is made from and specially what is the source of that latex and the labels on the white night mattress like I mentioned before just say 94% latex and 6% cotton nor is the 1 piece of paper that came with the mattress says what latex and what source and if any what certification it has.

I will wait after you can get them to answer these questions clearly. Thanks Phoenix.

(Worried in Texas)

 

In any case I'll see what I can find out.

Phoenix.

Phoenix

Thanks Phoenix for update. let know what is going on.

When the maker Innomax does does not know what kind of latex and what ILD and which source they are using in making this White Night mattress, it does not inspire confidence in the consumer.

It is remarkable the maker has to find ot what goes in their mattress.

The tag on the mattress has no description either.

I will wait for your response. thanks again Phoenix.

Phoenix

He didn't know specifically about the Innomax (he doesn't deal with this part of latexco) but he did confirm that Latexco's Puralux is available in very soft ILD's. This is a continuous pour "variation" of Dunlop that is one of the many "Dunlop variations" that are being produced in various places around the world. It does not come in 6" cores but can be produced up to 3" thick. It is a "mostly natural" blend and has less SBR latex in it than Talalay but it can be produced in a variety of "mixtures". The website says it can also be made in an all natural version. It is often used as a quilting layer in a mattress but since it can be made up to 3" thick and in a wide range of ILD's and is being produced in the US, I am guessing that it will start "popping up" in more places as in comfort layers. The 6" core is probably Durolux 5 Zone (28 -32 ILD zones).

So it is almost certain that this is what the Innomax is using in at least the top layers. If this is the case ... then at least in terms of specs ... 1" 18 ILD over 2" 24 ILD over 28-32 zoned would feel quite soft to most people and probably similar in feel to similar ILD talalay comfort layers (maybe a bit firmer). This means that what feels fairly soft to most people feels firm to you so the "firmness" is a matter of your individual perception and not because the latex itself is "too firm". This would also likely mean that what many people called soft and what was sold in stores as soft or medium/soft may also feel firm to you. Part of the "problem" though may be the thickness of the comfort layers.

Because most of the comfort layer is 24 ILD (which is bordering on medium) this is what you would mostly be feeling, but you are probably also going through this (the top 3") a bit (because of your weight) and also be feeling some of the "firmness" of the bottom layer as well even though this is also less than many support layers. All in all this indicates to me that if you decide to go with a topper in Talalay then either 19 ILD or 14 ILD would seem to "fit" your preferences better. I would test them both in stores on top of a mattress with a similar construction to yours so your own perception can tell you which is better for you.

I doubt you would need more than 2" in either 19 or 14 ILD since you already have 3" of softness under you which you would be adding to and if you go too much thicker than this you may be risking alignment problems because you were sinking down too far in your hips.

Again though ... because your perceptions may be outside of "average" I would put a lot of emphasis on your personal experiences and "lay on mattress" testing.

Phoenix

Rocky Mountain mattress sells dunlop toppers that they claim are 16-18 IFD.   They have told me in the past that they are made by Latex Green.  Not sure if this firmness is accurate.  It is possible they are confusing a metric measurement with pounds.   Latex Green does not have much in the way of details on their website about their toppers.   In their section on mattresses, the measure the firmness in Kgf. 

Phoenix