Mattress Forum

I think it also depends on the type of wool toppers you are using as well.  Ideally it is in a stretchy material.  I think the St. Dormier is probably more flexible than the Natura I have.  I think the wool filled cotton topper is probably more flexible than the snugfleece kind. 

I also try to put them on loosely (when trying to reduce the firmness).   My topper has elastic bands that go over the corners.  When I use them, it seems firmer.  So, often I just lay it on and try to put the wool mattress pad and sheet on so that they are not too tight.  Othewise they pull tight and add firmness. 

I no longer seem to get too hot with my configuration, but you may be more sensitive than me.

ETA--Berkely Ergonomics who sell a nice all-natural sleep system, also sell a wool-cotton stretchy mattress cover/topper but it's over $200.  There's a local store that sells this brand and I went and checked out the mattresses..very pricey for what you get, but nice. Basically it's pocketed coils, a 3" latex pad (your choice of firmness), and a wool/cotton stretchy zip-on cover. That's it.  in a one-sided mattress, average price $1500. For $600 more you can get the adjustable slat platform. ANywho, I liked the mattresses ok, but since I'd just paid $1300 for a disastrous comfortaire just over a year ago, I wasn't in a position to spend another $1500+ for a new set so I passed. [I had also JUST bought the $700 S brand mattress set.] They make and sell the oxygen pillow (pricey as well) and the cover I mentioned above (which I think is close to what is on their beds, which I admit is the nicest bed covering I've yet seen..wool, cotton, and stretchy!)..but everything is mega bucks and I'm not rich. As well, nothing is returnable!  So you buy, you don't like, you're out.

sandman which wool toppers do you have please.

I did not sleep hot last night for the first time in ages BUT..I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that it was quite cool last night..the fan was in the window (as usual) and was blowing in fresh cool air. The room was in the low 60s. I was therefore able to sleep with an extra blanket and I really like the added weight..I sleep better but of course that usually adds to the hotness. But I didn't get hot under there nor did I have to move off any hot spots under my body. 

I had found a post in this forum from someone, I forget who, who said he discovered the answer to his hotness on latex was the room temperature. He said when the room was cool, he did not get hot sleeping, when the room was not cool, he did.  I am really beginning to think he has hit the nail on the head with that one. I don't have a/c and unless it's very cool out (like last night) it gets warm in my room (and of course, downright hot on hot days/nights). The fan only blows hot air around.  I tend to hate a/c (canned air) but I really think I need to get one especially if it means I can sleep at night. (Won't need it now that colder weather is upon us but in the spring/summer).   I don't like the idea of higher electric bills, etc.  But I wasn't hot last night and that in itself is a minor miracle...and I really do not think it was the mattelasse bed cover doing it. Still have to experiment w/ this.

Leo, do you have a/c in your room and/or, what temp. is your room generally at night? Do you find if it's very cool that you don't get hot spots?

My night wasn't perfect, my neck was uncomfortable all night (pillow issues!), I woke a lot I think almost in anticipation of being hot..and wasn't..!! ...but then started thinking too much, lol..you know the drilll..

This is the wool topper I bought at walmart.com.  I can't remember who makes it, but it seems okay.  They say 1.5", but I think more like 1".  They also have a 3" one is you are looking for something thicker and more of a breathable barrier.   I think you can return things if purchased on the walmart website, and they might have free shipping to a store near you.

I have not tried any others to really say how it compares.  I was also looking at the Gaiim (pretty good price and I think returnable) and Natura.  It is possible that the walmart one is a bit less flexible than the others, so it might affect the feel more.  Not totally sure though.
 

On top of that I use the washable wool filled Natura mattress pad.  It is pretty good, and I got a good price at the time from Select Comfort (I don't think they carry them anymore).  From what I read, I think it is stiffer than the St. Dormier one.  So, when I want to replace I think I will go with St. Dormier.

p.s.  what are you using now over the latex topper?  The wool topper would probably reduce the springy feel a bit, so maybe that is a plus for you.

They call it cotton (which is the cover), but most likely it is filled with polyester.  Check the tag if you can.  Polyester is not necessariy that bad, but I don't think it would work as well as wool.  

I noticed that Costco has added this wool filled protector.   But it also says waterproof, so it might have a layer that is not so breathable.   LL Bean also sells wool filled washable ones, and I think you can return to them. I don't think it has as much wool though.

The St. Dormier might not have enough wool by itself.  For me, just using the wool mattress pad is not enough for heat issues. So, I use the wool topper and the wool filled mattress pad.  However, if I was only using latex (and no memory foam), then maybe it would be.  So, best to add one thing at a time, hopefully returnable.  If you are getting a returnable wool topper, I would start with that and use with your current mattress pad to see if that works.  If you really want a new mattress pad, then maybe start with the St. Dormier and see if that solves the problem.  If not, try adding a returnable wool topper as well.

Yes, room temperature will make a big difference.  Also, Budgy in the past has said that a silk filled comforter adds weight but not as much heat (vs. say down, wool filled, or a heavy blanket).

I don't use any A/C but I live near the ocean.  So, normally not too hot in my room except a few nights during the year.  I prefer 70 degrees or less.

 

Agreed.  They say breathable barrier, but who knows what it is.  The price is good and returnable too, so might be worth a gamble for someone to try.

 

Something to keep in mind for sure.

Most latex mattress makers use a layer or two of poly foam to help in the cooling of latex as well.  The memory foam mattress makers have tried to use poly foam but it interfears with the comfort that some find so enjoyable about memory foam.

If I may, I would suggest a trip to a local upholstery shop and buy a layer of super soft poly foam with a layer of fortrell on top - the fortrell will breath well and the poly will dispert heat from your body - however if your mattress is a memory foam mattress you will loose some of it's comfort.  It should have little effect on comfort with a latex mattress.  Ofcourse I would suggest you have them sew fabric on the outside to make the entire pad easy to take home and place on your mattress.

One more thing to know - the more layers of upholstrey you put on a mattress the more you will find it will tend to feel firmer. this is called stacking - more layers, as they are compressed, tend to get hard, especially if any of the layers above are firmer than those below.

Gunmam4440

Most people do find latex mattresses cooler than visco matts.  Visco (Memory Foam) by its design simply retains heat.  What we call regular poly by it's design does indeed dispurse heat at normal body temps.  I'm not aware of any latex mattress makers that do not place some layers of poly foam (not visco foam) on top of their matts...

Gunman4440

There are MANY manufacturers of high quality latex mattresses that do not use polyurethane foam in some or most or all of their models.

-Natura, Flobeds, SavvyRest, SleepTek, Obasan, GreenSleep, Royal Pedic, OrganicPedic, VitalRest, WJ Southard, to name a few...there are many more that I have not listed. 

Today's Flamability testing (Federal 1633 regs) uses, in some cases, with some mattress makers - not all makers - chemicals to block the hight temps that have to be met (1180 degrees for one hour at five different ignition points).  However many makers use other fire blocking tecknology such as kevlar and other similar fabric heat blocking and dispersing methods.

But I doubt if this poor gentelman is sleep with a body temp of 1180 degrees!  So the supper soft poly with a fortrel pad on top of his mattess will serve him quite well!

Gunman4440

My first post towards you had nothing to do with flammability....this is about what materials are going to breathe better than others and do a better job of regulating body temperature.  Which natural fibres, cotton and wool, etc will do a much better job of than polyurethane foams as you suggested. 

EDIT: In any event, I have just never heard of someone suggesting to add layers of polyurethane foam to a mattress to help someone sleep cooler. 

I don't understand why you recomend natural fibers when the gentelman said that wool and cotton did not meet his needs.  I'm sure there are other "natural" fibers he could try - but are they easily availabe to him?  Fortrel, even the higher tech qualofill or hollofill will do a fantastic job of disbursing body heat, and he can find them at the upholstrey shop in his area.

By the way - those latex mattress manufacturers you mentioned - do they realy just put flat fabric down on latex with no quilting on the fabric?  I worked for years with Latex International and Sleep Comp Latex and they generaly say a quilted panel on top of their latex make a dramaticly better presentation! 

Gunman4440

Also, I have a little prior history with Leo, she's a she btw ;)

She had tried a few different options in the wool.  I believe one was an exposed wool pad with the stiffer acrylic backing, and the other was a thin Natura puddle pad.  Personally I can see why both of these have made the mattress stiffer overall.  The challenge is that she had specific needs/wants.  She can feel most stitching done on most mattress protectors and toppers which cuts out a lot of options.  Cotton batting in general is very firm and I can see why that maybe didn't help. 

I still believe a well made product with a decent amount of stretch will not cause these issues.  The comfort plus wool toppers from Natura have more wool in them than any exposed wool pad I have seen, and although they do have some stitching, it is minimal, and they do not have the acrylic backing.  Also a St. Dormeir mattress protector is very stretchy where it is stitched. I have never heard of anyone saying they can feel the stitching on those mattress protectors. 

The other challenge is that I know she would prefer to be as chemical free as possible which means synthetic polyester fibres and poly foams are sort of a last resort kind of thing. 

I also tried a nice soft cotton blanket under the sheet, but found out it was too dense and caused hip pain.  The cooling factor was minimal, not as much as the wool helped.  But the bedroom is 76-78 at night, and for various reasons I can't adjust it down (cost, etc.)

I am forced to use a plush polyester blanket as it causes absolutely no hip pain and my back feels fine too.  Unfortunately the heat factor is bad.  Winter time I will be fine again.

I am now looking at wool blankets at LL Bean that someone there said she used as a mattress pad for 6 months now.  Though she doubled up a king size for her full size bed, as the blanket was thin.  Here is a link and the last review on the first page is the one I am talking about.

Sandman I couldn't find the wool mattress pad you are talking about at LLBean.

I wish I had the nerve to order the Dormeir as the cost is high and no refunds and no returns.  Since I am a special case I will be the one that feels the stitching lines.  Someone here swore I would love the Cuddlebed and would not feel the lines, I DID!  It slept hot anyway.

I know for me this would be too firm.  I use cotton jersey sheets as they stretch so I can sink into the latex layer for side sleeping.  Even regular non-stretching sheets cause pain for me, absolutely no give the them.

No my upholstery shop doesn't carary Fortrel,qualofill or hollifil.  They probably are chemical laden, and probably have no stretch to them.  I was also searching for stretchable terry cloth at fabric stores, and none was found.  Good quality fabrics are hard to come by for the consumer.

As for the cotton and wool the problem is density is too firm and does not stretch, or has a stiff backing, and usually comes with stitching lines on the mattress pads.   So that is why I try blankets.  This is a way that people used to cover their mattresses to protect them, or so I am told.  Mattress pads usually have polyester filled (Cuddlebed) and the pads at JCPenneys sells those.  No local stores even sell mattress pads with cotton filling.  We have a very old one that has cotton filled mattress pad, but the stitching lines bother me still.

I'm not trying to be mean or testy, but try another upholstry shop.  Most "better" decorator pillows are filled with Fortrell.  It is a better version of dacron and decorators perfer the resiliance over dacron.  Dacron, Fortrell, Hollofill, and Qualofill are all monofillament strands of nylon combed into soft fluffy "batts" for use to soften the surface of upholstrey.  Dacron was the first and by far the most common version.  Fortrell is a finer fiber with a much softer feel and more resistance to packing down.  Hollofill is similar to the previous but each fiber ha a single hole running its length (like a straw).  Qualafill is very similar to Hollofill but instead has four or five holes running its legnth (again like a straw).  Both Holofill & Qualofill have an even higher resistance to packing down in large part due to the way they are formed and the holes in them!  This is great stuff.

To my knowlede the only chemicals used during manufacture with and of the above, other than the nylon & heat is water - and a very purifide water it is as they want no impurities affecting the finished product.

The fibers with the holes running the legnth, as you might imagine, are very good at dispurshing heat!  Buy the way, they use these fibers in ski clothing to make sure a skier says warm but not over warm!  If you look at skiers on the slopes at night with an infared scope they glow yellow - from the fibers dumping the extra body heat the skier simply does not need!

Any upholstry shop worth going to knows about these fibers and can always get them if they are not on hand.

Gunman4440

What is really making this difficult to solve for Leo is because no matter what material we would recommend...how do you get it into something that has no stitching or backing on it? and yet make it thick enough to make it nice and soft and preferably without any fibre shifting around too much.  I think if someone can think of a good solution to this than we might have a shot at helping. 

You are right.  I checked the LL bean website and they no longer offer the wool filled mattress pads.  I know they use to, because I bought one of a spare bed earlier this year.  It does have box stitching though, so you probably wouldn't want anyway.  Seems to have less wool than my Natura.  Probably why it was cheaper.

Read this thread w/ interest while you guys battled it out about whether synthetic fibers are breathable or not, etc.  My own limited experience is that I have an ancient eggcrate PU foam pad, I don't know where it was bought but it's held up amazingly over the years, it's only maybe 2" thick..anyway, it does not cause me to heat up as badly as either memory foam or latex.  [However, another newer el-cheapo Walmart eggcrate was utter crap, hot and too firm..] Unfortunately I cut up the good PU pad for "parts" before I realized the as yet unused new one was nowhere near as good. 

Amazing how many differences there are in these things. Info i wish I did not have to know.

I would feel like an utter idiot if I bought the Dormeir and that didn't work too.  I think that would totally destroy me!  How much more wasted money can I stand to lose?  I compare it to my losing battle with socks that cut off my circulation on my ankles.  Why the heck do they makes things so unbearable uncomfortable?  I don't have fat ankles.  LOL.  I have bought ever brand and kind of socks, same dang thing.

When I slept directly (with a mattress pad) on the regular mattress with the deep tufting I just hated it.   That is one thing I liked about sleep directly on the latex toppers, no lousy tufting.  But then the dreaded mattress pad as you can't sleep directly on latex.

I use to have the eggcrates of olden days too, too bad I threw them out.  They were better than the one I bought from Target, I did take that back it never even expanded.  Not to mention the toppers I got from Bed Bath & Beyond were worthless.  Don't think I returned those.  Who knows what else I have tried I am sure I forgot some.

Edit: I just remembered the expensive featherbed.  More money down the drain.

My current new BR has a "plush" top (not really, but it's not a pillowtop), with horizontal stitches in the padding across the top. Padding is minimal maybe 1".  So that type of top doesn't bother me but the bed is too hard!! I really wanted to be able to sleep on it as is (or w/ just a mattress pad (if I could find one w/out bad seams) but so far, no go. So the latex topper is on it and of course, hot and sweaty. Then the wool Snugfleece but that matted up at pressure points and was like lying on the bumpy ground. So I turned it over and now sleep on the backside (cotton, almost like a canvas material) but it's defeating most of the softness of the latex and I wake up feeling like I was hit by a truck.

I'm probably not quite as sensitive as you are re: seams, but I'm pretty sensitive to it.  For years I had a nice Lands End mattress pad that was stitched in long vertical columns about 4" wide...minimal stitching and never a problem with that one.  That was w/ my old BR mattress..I got rid of the pad because it was starting to stretch out on the sides and I had a new one I thought would work..bad idea!  New one had terrible painful stitching and wouldn't you know the old version is no longer available. Wish I'd kept that.

You might like the cotton mattress cover made by Berkeley Ergonomics..I know I would...but it's about $250 in queen size (just for a cotton cover!!) so there's just no way..and of course, non-returnable. Very smooth and stretchy though..really nice. That is how the covers on their beds are made too...with a little wool encased.