How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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I've had my new latex mattress for a little over a week now, and I have some questions for you other latex mattress users. I'm a side sleeper, tall and heavier than average. When I lie on my mattress, I find that I'm sinking into the mattress quite a bit (esp in the hip area). The 6" core is 32 ILD and there is 2" of soft latex on both the top and bottom of that. My back pain has for the most part gone away since I got the mattress, and my hip pain is totally gone, but the amount I'm sinking into the mattress is a little disconcerting and I'm wondering if I got too soft a core for my size. I'm also wondering if, due to the amount my hips are sinking in, whether my spine is really aligned . . . When you all sleep on your latex mattresses, are you finding that you're depressing the latex much, or are you mostly "floating" on top of it? Since there has been an improvement in my pain, I'm hesitant to call Custom Comfort and ask them to put a firmer core in, but if, on the other hand, I'm sinking more than I should be, maybe I would do better with a firmer core. Any thoughts? |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Kimberly you and I have been sleeping on our new latex mattresses for about the same period of time. I started sleeping on mine two weeks ago this Monday. What I'm finding is that the top layer has a great deal more to do with how the mattress feels from a "sinking feeling" than the core layer does. But since you have a mattress that has a soft layer on top and a firm layer in the middle with a soft layer on the bottom, it's rather hard for me to ascertain. But let me give you some advice I got from a very knowledgeable individual regarding latex mattresses and their various firmnesses. This is from an e-mail I received and I will simply cut and pasted it here.This is in reply to a question I had about this very issue you are asking about. "A F/XF/F will feel firmer that a F/F/XF for two reasons. First: as your body sinks into the latex, you will feel the second core before you feel the third core. Depending on your weight, you might feel very little of the bottom core. Second: When your body comes into contact with the middle layer of XF, it gives less than a Firm and your body weight is spread out over a larger area (conversely, if the middle layer was Firm, you would sink in futher and your weight would be spread out over a smaller area). The bottom layer then picks up the spread out load from the XF, and more of the latex is supporting your body, making for a firmer mattress." I don't know if this makes any sense to you in your situation. But my guess is that if you are troubled by this "sinking sensation" it has more to do with the top layer of soft Talalay then of the firmer core layer. There is no question that if you have a firmer mattress you will feel more like you're floating on top of it then sinking into it.I am going through this very same thing now myself.I just installed a soft layer on top of two extra firm layers. I'm going to have to sleep on it to know whether or not I like it. I have a Cal King bed that is split between one side that is firm, and the other side that is softer. But you can play around with this till you go batty. What we should be looking for is a really restful nights sleep. We should awaken in the morning without any pain, and feeling refreshed. If we are achieving this then whether we are floating on top, or sinking into our mattress, is purely a psychological scenario and not a physiological fact, as far as our physical health is concerned. One other point I will make is this. We should give our beds at least a two week trial run before we make any changes. I know the temptation is great and I have got caught up in it to. I'm just afraid that what I may be doing is just confusing myself. And this business of changing layers consumes a lot of time and effort, not to mention money. Good luck, you have my best wishes. This message was modified Oct 8, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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These are all good points. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy a Flobeds bed, because I'm by nature an indecisive person, and I imagined that all the layers and firmnesses would have me double-guessing and driving my husband crazy. My family is already heartily sick of the subject of mattresses, since my husband can sleep on any old thing. I've slept on my bed four nights now. The first three nights I slept better than I have in months, if not years. Hip pain disappeared by the first night. Although my back aches haven't totally disappeared (I do have arthritis in my back), for the first three mornings I woke up without aggravated back pain from sleeping on my mattress and my days were mostly pain free. Yesterday I took my dogs out for a walk and by the time I got back, I had a backache, and that persisted through last night and today. I don't think the mattress caused or exacerbated the backache. But I am concerned that I'm sinking too much into the bed. I'll call Custom Comfort tomorrow and see what they say. Is a 32 ILD LI core considered "firm?" I think that Custom Comfort told me the 2" top and bottom layers are 18 ILD. If I want to *not* sink into the mattress so much, I'm wondering if I should have them change out the 6" 32 ILD core for something firmer, or change out the two 2" layers for something firmer. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Kimberly, my heart goes out to you. My wife is tired of hearing about mattresses as well. I think she could sleep on almost anything and be comfortable, at least anything that was reasonably decent. I again want to emphasize to you that my experience so far is that the top layer will pretty much determined to a very large extent the feel that you have for your mattress. This business about back pain rings a bell for me as well. I have a bad back, and have had most of my life. It's an old football injury from junior high school. Just today in moving the mattress cores around, even while wearing my back brace, my back began to give me problems. This has nothing whatsoever to do with sleeping on my mattress. So we can NOT blame our mattresses for these kinds of problems. The secret will be if you go to bed tonight and wake up in the morning with your back feeling better. It's true FloBeds gives you unlimited opportunities to confuse yourself. It's up to me to not allow that to happen. One thing I'm doing is I'm keeping a diary with the various configurations and my sleep experiences on them. Some of this has been displayed here under the thread that I started, "I just bought a new FloBeds." One reason that I went ahead and got a couple of extra cores of different firmnes's was to have plenty of time, within the 90 day trial period, to make a proper determination. I am hopeful that I will not need to get any different levels of firmness. I currently have two months and two weeks plus a few days to make my final determination. I would give your current mattress another week of testing before making any changes. This is of course is as long as it is not causing any pain or difficulties. I hope you don't think I'm being presumptuous, but I seem to sense that you're being overly apprehensive about this "sinking feeling". Now I understand that a lot of our mattress testing is psychological. For instance during the first 10 days it seemed as if the mattress was actually getting softer. Now is this due to some trait within the 100% naturally botanically grown latex, or is it my mind adjusting my body to the latex surface? So it can become quite perplexing. But if your mattress company has given you enough time I would use it to make sure that my problems were physical not psychological. I don't recall what you said, whether you had 30,60 or 90 days to test out the mattress. If you only have 30 days that does put a larger burden on you. Here is the link to FloBeds latex mattress core fact sheet. This will give you all of there ILD numbers. LI puts the various fiemnesses right in the middle of the range. At least all the cores I received were. Other companys may use different ranges. http://www.flobeds.com/mattspec.htm This message was modified Oct 8, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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I would agree with eagle2 that the sinking in too much feeling is from the soft layer on top, not the middle core. Your top layer has a pretty low ILD though I'm only familiar with natural latex, not blended so perhaps it's firmer than it would be in natural. Also, personally I don't like having any kind of softer layer under a firmer, although many people do. I find it too springy feeling. I sleep mostly on my side and I do like my hips to sink into the top layer as long as my lower back isn't aggravated, as that relieves pressure point pain. Also, are you the person who posted on another thread that you have your latex mattress on box springs? If so, before changing anything in your mattress, I would highly recommend you try it without the box springs. I think most people suggest that latex should be on some kind of slat foundation. At any rate, I think box springs would definitely affect how the mattress feels. Some people say if one is relatively lightweight, that it's not possible to feel the bottom layer of a 3 core mattress, but that's not true for me. I'm about 5'6 and 130 lbs and can definitely tell what's on the bottom (but I'm super sensitive). I think anyone who is heavier would likely be able to feel a difference depending on what the mattress is on. You could put it on the floor temporarily, which would give a closer approximation to a slat or solid foundation. One more thought, I've slept on talaly and dunlap (both all natural). Talalay definitely has more of a sinking feeling, which is apparently why some people don't like it as much as dunlap (or vice versa). And it's hard to compare which is firmer by comparing ILDs as but dunlap is much denser, and just feels very different, at least to me. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
| I don't sink in much except for the 1" topper I have on top of my three Extra Firm and Super Firm latex cores. I found I could not sleep with any latex core less than 35 ILD. I have always loved a very firm bed. I love my FloBed since it has a little give so I do not feel any pressure points are being pushed like I did on my very firm spring mattress. I do not toss and turn to get off the pressure points like I did on my very firm spring mattress. I needed a topper to have that little bit of cushion that I never had with my spring mattress and that I found out I loved when I had not choice but to sleep on the floor and bought myself a 1" latex topper and found I loved having some cushion. Then when clients told me about FloBeds and I did research, I went to so many stores to lie on latex beds and decided I needed to have a bed that I could adjust to my needs. Each person is so different. The pillow matters a lot also in the whole comfort scenerio when trying to get a good night's sleep. I find I can only sleep on natural latex pillows since I have slept on them all my life and to me they are heavenly. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
| Yes, there is a 2" soft layer, then the 6" core in the middle, then a 2" soft layer on the bottom. This is because Custom Comfort constructs their mattresses to be double sided, to be flipped and rotated, for longevity of the mattress. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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If you feel you're sinking in too much, then this setup is probably too soft for you. You might be able to get used to it, or you may start getting a backache from it after a few weeks. My feeling is that your intuitive hunch is right, the 6" core is too soft for you. Most side sleepers will take a somewhat softer mattress, and on paper your setup does sound right for you. But the 2" soft layer underneath it all, plus the mattress itself being on a regular foundation would add up to it being a bit softer than say a 6" medium core with a 2" soft topper would by itself. So with this manufacturer's mattress, a firmer core might do better. It might be good to wait awhile and see how it is after another week or so. You might just get used to it. Or as someone else suggested, try it on a flat surface to see if the sinking in feeling lessens. I think that your mattress should feel soft on the surface yet supportive while laying on it. If you're laying on your side you shouldn't feel undo pressure under your shoulder or hips, yet you should feel there's support at the same time. Too much of a sinking in feeling indicates not enough support to me. The core is the support. Good luck on this. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
| Basically, if your back isn't hurting from the bed, then you're getting enough support has been my rule of thumb. As far as the sinking, you may want to put a firmer layer on top and a very soft directly underneath of it. That's what worked for me, the very soft on top was hurting my back. Good luck. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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My guess is that the sinking is more of a problem in your mind than physically if you've been waking feeling better than before you got the latex. Perhaps have your husband look at your spine alignment when you're laying on your side. I don't think a mattress can fix back problems -- a good one just won't be making it worse. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Well I just am not happy with this sinking in feeling. I called Custom Comfort, and they told me I had a six inch, 28 ILD core sandwiched between two, two inch layers at 19 ILD. Considering that I am both tall and heavy, that confirms my suspicion that the latex is just too soft. When I was at the store, the sample core they showed me was 32 ILD and the two inch layers were 19 ILD. The floor model bed was definitely firmer. So, after talking with them, they are going to pick up the bed and exchange the latex for a 34 ILD core sandwiched between two 24-25 ILD pieces. I'm hoping that will give the extra firmness that will eliminate this caving in feeling. I'm still happy with Custom Comfort, the customer service has been great, the mattress is first rate quality, they are very polite on the phone, they use the same high quality LI latex as Flobeds and Sleepez, but I am now regretting that I didn't go with Flobeds or Sleepez so that I could just play around with the layers and adjust as needed to get it right. Also, as knowledgeable as Custom Comfort is about traditionally constructed mattresses, I'm not getting the feeling that all of their salespeople are as knowledgeable about latex as the Flobeds people are. I don't want to be obsessive about this, but now I'm worried that I'll get the new mattress and it won't be right and I'll have to have them pick it up all over again . . . actually, I'm thinking maybe I should just call Flobeds and talk to them about ILDs and call Custom Comfort back and tell them what to give me based on what Flobeds recommends. Anyway, they can't come until Thursday the 15th and they'll redo it and have it back to me Saturday the 17th, so I won't know until next weekend or later whether this new combination will work better. But I do feel better that I am exchanging for firmer layers. And miraculously, my husband didn't roll his eyes with exasperation when I brought up the subject of sending it back for firmer latex. |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Kimberly: it sounds like you should be okay with the ILD's that they are mentioning for you. According to the chart that I have from FloBeds their soft is from 20 to 24 ILD, medium is 26 to 30 ILD, firm is 30 to 34 ILD, extra firm is 34 to 38 ILD. Latex International usually puts their ILD selections squarely in the middle of the range. At least my cores have come that way. They also list a blended soft Talalay from 19 to 22 ILD, and a super firm blended from 42 to 46 ILD. As far as what FloBeds would recommend for you, it is very easy to find out. Go to this URL and put in the proper numbers and you can get their recommendations. I have found them to be fairly accurate. Copy and past this URL. http://flobeds.com/firmness_advisor/index.htm I think you will definitely be happier with the firmer layers, both the core and the top and bottom pieces. It seems that most companies use different ILD ranges. For whatever it's worth, on the FloBeds chart, they claim that their ranges are measures based on the ASTM D-1055. Whatever that is. Best of luck on your mattress quest. This message was modified Oct 10, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Eagle, can you post the link to that chart? Thanks :) |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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KimberlyH wrote: Eagle, can you post the link to that chart? Thanks :) I did! It is right there in my last post. Copy and past it into your browser URL location and hit enter. I do not know why this web site does not hot link when a url is listed, but all you have to do is copy and past the link I provided as I just indicated. It works, I tried it.. just now! |
Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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Eagle, I meant the URL to the Flobeds ILD charts that break down the ILDs considered "xfirm" vs "firm" vs "medium" vs "soft," but I went to the Flobeds website and found it. I've seen the firmness advisor chart, but I'm not sure that takes into account factors such as hip and back pain. I imagine I might want a little softer than what they recommend on their calculator, which is firm over xfirm. This message was modified Oct 10, 2009 by KimberlyH
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Re: How should my latex mattress feel when I lay on it?
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KimberlyH wrote: Eagle, I meant the URL to the Flobeds ILD charts that break down the ILDs considered "xfirm" vs "firm" vs "medium" vs "soft," but I went to the Flobeds website and found it. I've seen the firmness advisor chart, but I'm not sure that takes into account factors such as hip and back pain. I imagine I might want a little softer than what they recommend on their calculator, which is firm over xfirm. Kimberly: There's no way that FloBeds "Firmness Advisor" can take into account factors such as hip and back pain with any degree of accuracy. If you went to three different doctors, be they chiropractors, or ODs, you could very well received three different opinions about what is best to do regarding your hip and back pain. I am beginning to get the impression that the first two layers of a four layer bed are probably the most important as far as "feel" is concerned. Therefore FloBeds convoluted soft Talalay 2 inch top piece and the first 3 inch layer of what ever firmness level you choose, is going to give the greatest degree of impression on our physiology. But the next two 3 inch layers are the stabilizing and foundation factors that really matter over the long haul. At least that is my initial impression sleeping on my FloBeds mattress for two weeks come Monday. One thing I am experiencing is the strong psychological effect of several nights sleeping on differing core firmness levels. We humans are very complex entities. We are a giant electrochemical unit. And the philosophers, sages and theologians have argued for millennia that we also have a soul. Whatever you choose to believe, believe this. We are highly complex. Also consider this. We spend one third of our lives sleeping. So it just makes sense that the sleep surface that we utilize is a very large contributor to our overall well-being. What makes it maddeningly difficult, when you're trying to choose the proper bed, is the way our bodies adapt to things. Now adapting is a very good! We'd all be in a lot of trouble if we couldn't adapt. But this also complicates trying to choose what layers you want in a latex mattress. Just read some of JimSoCal experiences with building his own mattress. So make the changes that seem right to you, and then give yourself enough time to adapt to these changes before you make any final determination. Just the advice of an old guy trying to adapt and choose..... right now.  This message was modified Oct 10, 2009 by eagle2
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