Mattress Forum

You could probaby buy a better 6" zoned latex core (natural dunlop) with a decent cover for less than or similar to this and probably have a better mattress than the ikea. Probably wouldn't go there personally as I'm not sure how comfortable it would be ... for me anyway.

For about $1200 you would probably be able to get 8-9" of all latex and a good cover and have a better mattress than the embody. Lots of links that lead to these in recent threads.

Poly foam in the lower support layers is not as bad as polyfoam in the comfort layers. I am guessing that Sealy uses a decent (relative word) HR foam for support. Don't know exactly what it is.

Englander sells a lot of latex mattresses with poly in them. These are usually the ones that develop impressions. Many of their dealers try to imply that they are all latex by saying things like "we only use 100% latex in our mattress" and let consumers take it the way they want them to take it. There's a bit of a craigslist war going on locally between a well known mattress outlet that is selling Englander poly latex and another store that is selling an all latex mattress (house brand) for more of course. It's funny to watch. I actually lay on some poly/latex englanders but ruled them out because there was too much poly in them ... top (about 1.25" quilting foam over 3" or 4" of latex depending on model) and bottom (HR core).

The embody with 3" + 7" is usually called the Insightful. I've only seen it called the Inspiration in one place in Canada. It's available online for under $2000.

I'm assuming that from your ikea price you are looking at a King so everything I posted is King size.

The best suggestion would depend on how much you already have invested in your mattress.

Phoenix

How much are you into your mattress already? That would make a difference to me whether I exchanged it for the same thing with the intent to use it for a spare mattress and then started over again with the rest of my budget. It looks to me like you could do better than both the Ikea and the Insightful upgrade. You could buy a better mattress than the insightful inside your remaining budget and exchange the mattress you have now for a new one.

But again it would depend on how much I had invested in it so far. If nothing else you could probably get a lot better deal on the upgrade.

The Sealy would probably have around 3" of polyfoam in the top and probably more depending on exactly what model you have. Almost any mattress with that much poly in the upper layers will likely have similar problems.

Phoenix

I'm also skeptical about synthetic latex being any good unless maybe it is Talatech which I doubt it is. But does IKEA have a "easy return" policy like, say, CostCo? If so, then it wouldn't hurt to try it and return it if you don't like it.

Of these 2 choices, Sealy would be my least desirable choice.

I personally would take the Sealy you have, open it up and put some latex layers on top of the springs instead of the crap foam they have in there. We did that with my wife's bed and she likes it just fine. I am having less success having done that with my Englander springs but then I have a really messed-up back, neck and shoulders, so I'm a hard case.

See http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/dissecting-my-sealy-fenway-mattress-bought-costco-4-years-ago-lousy-soft-foam-inside/1954-1-1.html

The Sealy Embody has 3" of what they call smart latex on top and that is on top of 7" probably HR base. There are only these 2 layers so there is no poly on top. They describe their smart latex as "continuous pour" so it is likely LI dunlop. Whether this is natural or blended is open to question but it is latex for sure. Even all synthetic latex would be less likely to develop body impressions than any polyfoam. There are some mattresses made by the "S" companies that use natural Dunlop and also Talalay (probably the blend) but IMO they are way overpriced and they mostly spoil them by adding polyfoam in the wrong places. The highest content of any of them is the Simmons natural care elite (Uses Talalay) which only has a 2" layer of poly and this is in the support layers not the comfort layers. They are good for doing research to see the kind of feel you like, especially the elite because it has a variety of layering combinations of Talalay of different densities in the various models. They even use quiltable latex in the top.

And I love your efforts in "mattress surgery".

Reddog:

I think they have you between a rock and a hard place ... not unusual for many stores. They get you coming and going.

First thing I want to say though ... and I don't mean to be hard here ... Is that you have come to believe that it was the latex that was causing the body impressions. This was probably because you were led to believe that the Englander had all latex in the top layers. This plays right into the hands of the mattress manufacturers as then people no longer differentiate between polyfoam and latex foam thinking that they both develop impressions anyway.

Here's an example of one of their popular mattresses which has 2" of poly over the latex and yet in many places is being sold under the "impression" that you are sleeping on latex

https://www.gotomattress.com/p-201-englander-natures-finest-latex-3000-plush-mattress.aspx

Even the firm model has 1.25" of poly over the latex.

They do sell all latex but they are much more expensive so most places don't even carry them.

There are several places on the net where the Embody insightful King SET is available for around $2250 so lets use their own logic against them.

Lets say that the boxspring is $515 (using their valuation and assuming that it would be a similar boxspring) ... that means that the insightful mattress alone should be $1735

They are willing to give you $585 for your mattress (after charging you $199)

That means that they should be willing to sell you the insightful for 1735 - 585 = $1150.

Now they have already made a decent profit on you and the prices I am using have a profit built into them since the retailer they came from is not a charity so they should be willing to go even lower than this say $1050 for the upgrade

Now I realize that they will never do this but I'm just giving an example of how they work and how they even use a comfort exchange to increase their profits. Armed with this you should at the very least be able to get your comfort exchange for less if you choose to go in this direction.

On to the ikea. I really don't think this is an appropriate mattress for an adult. It is less than 6" and although it is made of latex, it is completely synthetic latex (and probably dunlop) which is the worst kind of the best material.

Usually an adult of normal weight would need a mattress a little thicker than this although if I was going to go to a thinner mattress at least I would go to all latex. This of course would depend on different factors including your own preferences and weight and weight distribution but typically a mattress like this would not be so great for an adult. YMMV

There are also many places where you can buy 6" of a higher quality and even zoned latex for the same or less.

I would tend though to go with 8" of latex or more with a firmer core and a softer top 2". The softer top could still be "relatively" firm but not as firm as the core.

I doubt that you would have body impression issues with either the embody or the ikea ... but both ways it seems to me it is the store that is the big winner ... not you.

Phoenix

PS: I used Queen prices in the original post by mistake. Changed to reflect King prices. Now instead of saying you are being gouged, I would downgrade my assessment and say you are being taken advantage of. You should be able to get your comfort exchange for less if you choose to go in that direction.

I have definetly come to realize it was not the latex that is responsible for the body impressions.  I'm guessing you are completely accurate in that the Englander had Poly foam in the comfort layer.  And the innerspring mattress we have now definetely does.  I just checked the tag and it is over 60% Poly foam in the top layers.  And i'm not worried about body impressions being caused by the latex, I was worried about the poly foam core in the Insightful leading to them eventually, but if that worry is not justified then I might just go with the Insightful....I just wish it had more then 3" of latex.  The Sealy Embody Shelter has 6.5" of latex ontop of a 6" poly core, but the price tag on that is much more.....$2950-$585 means I still have to pay $2365.  Also very comfortable though.  Yes I feel like they have me, but if i'm going to end up happy in the end, I don't mind giving them a little more of my money.

If you decide to do an exchange for the embody, do a quick search on the web and you will see several places where the insightful king is being sold for $2249 including the foundation and you would have free shipping and no tax. You may want to print at least two of these out and take them to the store with you if/when you negotiate for the price of the comfort exchange.

Also, the beautyrest mattress you bought needs an boxspring and the embody doesn't. Granted it's characteristics may be different with a different foundation than they have it on in the store but it doesn't need one. Typically an all foam mattress only needs a platform and these can be purchased for much less than they are "charging" for your boxspring. You may want to ask them if you can exchange the foundation as well since you won't need a boxspring with the embody and that may help you bypass their attempt to discount the price of your mattress for the purposes of the comfort exchange.

One last comment is that I would make darn sure that the insightful is providing you with the correct level of comfort/pressure relief AND support/spinal alignment if you "upgrade". While I realize that it may be your only real option in terms of a comfort exchange, if the mattress is not "right" for you ... it is not worth it at any price. It could be too easy to go for it only because you have such limited options instead of truly making sure that it is really suitable for YOU.

As I mentioned before, $1200 could buy you an all latex, or even partly latex mattress that I would personally choose over the insightful and you could end up with a "spare bed" and a better latex mattress for the same price as you would have paid for the mattress alone. For that matter if you exchanged the beautyrest for a new one of the same value, you could then sell the new mattress/boxspring on craigslist and add whatever you get for it (650 would be half price which is not bad for an unused mattress/boxspring) to your budget and get an absolutely amazing mattress with a little higher budget.

Phoenix

PS: just for reference, I bought a queen size custom made 2 sided all talalay latex mattress with a 4" core, 3" of latex on either side, quilted on both sides with quiltable latex and a down substitute fibre, damask ticking, specially re-inforced for an adjustable bed for $1697.75 including $287.80 freight and of course no tax.

 I would also say that $1700 for 7" of HR foam and 3" of latex is pretty expensive as well.  You can get all latex for roughly that price.

I guess you are kind of stuck since the only place you can get money toward a purchase is from them.  I assume you could not sell the mattress for $500+.  So, you have to decide whether you want to throw more money their way.  As Jimsocal said, you can probably get a better result for less by cutting it open and putting in your own latex.  That is a whole other game though.

BTW, thanks to all of you for the input.

Mike

Are you happy with the feel of the Sealy inpirational?  It probably should start out slightly firmer than you might like, because it will soften a bit.

I priced a 7" king piece of 3lb. HR foam (pretty good quality) from a place I bought sofa cushions, and it was over $700.  3" of latex would push the total to around $1100, plus you are getting a cover on it and delivery.  So, spending $1200 is not way out of line (real cost more when you factor in the loss on the previous mattress - but that is a sunk cost now).

Do you know the density of the HR foam?  That would be nice to know. 

HR foam can last reasonably long.  Think of sofa cushions.  I get about 5-10 years use of of mine.  I have not used HR foam in a mattress, but I think as a firm base it will last longer than the low density comfort foams they use (which probably went bad in your current Sealy).  

Yes

Yes, for sure don't buy the more expensive one!!!!   The cheaper Embody is marginal, but if you really like the feel it might be okay.  You can always add more latex for less than $1100 more.

By the way, do you know what "smart" latex is?  What makes it smart.  I get nervous when I hear marketing terms like that.

If it is all systhentic latex, I would then avoid that mattress completely.  I am not crazy about the Ikea one for that reason and 6" not enough.

The HR foam in the Sealy will probably not last as long as latex or steel coils.  So, you have to ask would you rather pay a bit more for a customziable all latex that will last longer.  So, going with the Embody is more risky.

I really do question the value in upgrading at all. Why spend 1200 to upgrade to the insightful when that same 1200 can buy you a superior mattress to the insightful ... AND you could do a comfort exchange for another or similar mattress to the one you already have and you would end up with TWO brand new mattresses and one boxspring.

You could keep the second mattress or sell it whatever worked for you.

Am I missing something?

Phoenix

I would probably rather take a chance on the 10" all latex at Costco for $1350.  100% returnable if you don't like.  Then you could keep, sell or donate the other.  Sam's club might have something similiar.   The other good option is customizable latex (say sleepez).  That will cost more, but you can adjust to your comfort level and return if no combo. works for you.

The best thing is to figure out what you would want out of all the choice out there and figure out the best way to get it.

Just to put this in perspective even this mattress is superior to the insightful. It has Talalay on the top (same 3" but a better quality latex) and it has a superior HR foam base (the insightful has HD foam). Sams club would also be zero risk since in both cases they can be returned. They will even come pick them up if you decide to return it.

And even these two don't represent the best mattresses you could get for your slightly more than $1200.

Here's another one that I would consider superior in every way to the insightful. This one may involve a little more risk though since they are not as much of a known quantity as Sams Club or Costco but it is under your $1200 budget in King. They do say though that they have a 60 day money back guarantee and will pay the shipping back if you return it. They are a direct outlet for Brooklyn Bedding.

And there are many more options from known and trusted vendors in the threads in this forum.

If I had to choose between the Costco or Sams club, I would choose the Costco because it is all latex, can be flipped to a softer or firmer side, and even though it is Dunlop, that would fit with your preference for a slightly firmer mattress. The 3rd choice would depend on how you felt about them (I would probably call and talk to them if I was considering buying from them)

Phoenix

Sapsa and Latex Foam Products were partners in 1996 in a joint venture called Latex International. LI produced Talatech from Latex Foam Products and Dunlop or what they call "Continuous Process" from Sapsa. http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/furniture-manufacturing-mattress-mfg/7278767-1.html

In 2001 Sealy purchased Sapsa and became the biggest latex producer in the world.

Also in 2001 a fire burned down the LI factory which was rebuilt within a year. This disrupted the growth of latex products in North America.

Springfree II introduced in 2006 with the same core http://ir.sealy.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=151044&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=885286&highlight=

The smart latex trademark was registered in 2008 http://www.trademarkia.com/smart-latex-77450063.html and this was also when the PurEmbrace line using smart latex was introduced. This grew from the "Pressure Relief Inlay system" that was introduced in the Posturepedic lineup earlier. It seems that the core used different densities or "inlays" of latex which is a combination of layering and zoning which made it "smart". This was probably also an outgrowth of Sapsa's multifoaming technology http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/Savoir-faire/index-suite.php The core was still made with the Sapsa Dunlop process and I saw one reference that implied that it was now the natural Dunlop but it doesn't say so directly. Probably means it had some natural latex in it http://www.lvrj.com/furniture_and_design /27948599.html

There are several references to different versions of smart latex including sense-align and intuisoft and smart-dual which are probably different layers and/or zones and it also appears that it could be different "varieties" of latex. You can see this in some of the current descriptions at the Sapsa website.

Some Sapsa history: http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/Societe/

Here http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/Gamme-produits/smart-dual.php They refer to "memory foam latex" whatever that is and one of the images on the bottom even has a hand print (wait for it).

and here again http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/Gamme-produits/toppers.php they refer to a smart topper as "memory foam latex"

And their definition of smart latex is here http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/Savoir-faire/index-suite.php calling it "memory latex"

It also looks like the 85 natural/15 synthetic used in the ikea could come from Sapsa http://www.sapsalatex.com/UK/About-latex/types.php It also appears that they no longer produce any all synthetic latex.

and even K-mart is getting in on the visco-latex act http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_021B023386110001P Wonder where this comes from.

It would also be a reasonable assumption given the connection between Sapsa and Latex International that any Talalay latex in Sealy products is Talatech.

So what is "smart latex"? My best guess is that it is some combination of layering, zoning, and production that Sealy would like us to believe makes latex perform more like memory foam.

It's clearly "smarter" than I am.

Maybe I should eat some.

Phoenix

Mike

I don't quite understand.  You are going to buy a new one through the comfort exchange and then sell it right away?  If so, then you might want to get a cheaper one, so your downside is limited, and it might be easier to sell something at a lower price.  Seems easier and less risky to sell the one you have, but obviously that is not new condition.   I guess you would have to figure out what each could be sold for.

Sleepez is good if you think you want to be able to customize fairly specifically to your needs.  Also, if you want one half different than the other.  It might have a better cover as well, with some wool fill.   You can also choose talalay (blended or 100% natural) or dunlop or a combo of the 2.  

Downside of course is that it costs more, and I think you would have to pay the cost of return shipping.  You would have to pack up and ship it back, where Costco would come and pick it up.

I think either is better quality than a foam based Embody, but that does not mean that you would like them more.

Here are the pluses and minuses of 4 mattresses that are in the range of your budget as I see them.

Sleepez: $1295. 8" of good quality 3 zoned natural Dunlop latex. Has a comfort guarantee if you don't like it but you pay shipping. Initial shipping for the mattress is free. Unclear if you would be returning the whole bed or just the top layer for a comfort exchange on their special which would affect shipping charges (I would call and ask or perhaps someone here knows but I would guess it is a layer). Very trustworthy merchant.

Arizona mattress: $1295. 8" (well 7.6 actually) of all Talalay latex blend which many people prefer particularly in the top layer. The cover is nicer (has 1.5" of wool not just cotton). Comfort exchanges can be done with the top layer which means the shipping cost is less than if you had to ship the whole bed. There is an initial shipping charge for the bed but not a lot since it ships UPS so factor that into the cost. You get a bonus (I believe it's currently 2 latex pillows) when you buy. Very trustworthy merchant.

Costco: $1395. 10" of natural Dunlop latex. Somewhat flippable (the inner layers have to be removed and flipped so you are sleeping on the correct side of the cover). This means it has 2 firmness choices built in, one on each side so while the level of "customization" is limited to 2, it does not involve shipping anything. Basic cover. If you don't like either of the 2 comfort choices, it costs nothing to ship back. Very trustworthy merchant.

Latexmattressshop: $1124.10 with their 10% coupon. 8" of natural Dunlop 7 zoned latex. Nicest cover of the lot with bamboo, wool, and quiltable latex. You can select 1 of 3 comfort levels when you order but you cannot do a layer exchange after you have it. Free shipping if you decide to return it. Initial shipping is also free. Seemingly trustworthy merchant but not as well known here as the others. Can upgrade to the next model with 10" of latex and latex/wool/bamboo cover for $1385.10 with their 10% coupon (just to compare with the Costco).

In my view, all of these represent very good choices but have slight differences in the quality of mattress, prices, adjustability, and difficulty and expense of return. You may have to pay tax on the Costco but the others would be tax free unless you lived in their state (strangely enough all 3 of them are in Arizona). All of them would be better than the insightful upgrade in my opinion. All of them (exept the Costco) would also be happy to talk with you to advise you on the comfort level that would be best for you in their experience. What level of risk/value you feel is better for you or even whether to go this route at all is of course part of your own personal decision.

Phoenix

The idea was to exchange the bed he has with a similar quality and price mattress, perhaps a little firmer or softer (I would go firmer because they tend to cost a little less perhaps leaving a little more in your budget and also because I would feel a little better about selling it). He would now have a brand new mattress. Now he could use the money he would have spent on the insightful upgrade to get a superior all latex mattress as in the choices in the last post. He would now have 2 brand new mattresses. He could now sell the one he exchanged for as an unused mattress or keep it if that was his choice.

Phoenix

I assume Mike can use the $585 credit to buy anything?  Or does it have to be equal or greater value?  If he buys a $585 mattress (costing zero out of pocket), then anything it sells for would be pure "profit".   If he puts up $1200 to buy the Embody, then he would have to sell it for $1200 or greater to make a profit.  There would be risk of not getting the $1200 back.

So, the question is what should he buy to get the greatest "profit" (really money back to reduce the loss).  This assumes he is not going to use it at all to maximize the resale value.  I think new and never used would have a significant premium over anything used.  I would keep it is the plastic wrapping and never touch it.

I guess one would have to know the market for such things.  I assume it would probably be at least 30% below what one could buy it in the store for?

Have you tried to have the store just give you some money back and let you sell the one you have?  I did that once.

p.s. I haven't seen those discount Sleepez ones before.  I thought sleepez would be more than Costco, however it is 8" vs. Costco's 10".

The next best option would be to go in the direction we have been going and sell the new but similar mattress with the boxspring and then buy a foundation (a decent slatted one with no springs) for your new latex mattress. I'm not sure what model of posturepedic you have but the lowest priced of the posturepedics in a king here is the Bryant park which is $839 for the set in a King. I'm guessing that you have a better model than this unless you paid a lot more than you needed to ($839 is not the lowest price online) but if it was this one then 60% of that would be around $500. I don't really know if that would sell on Craigslist but it seems to me that for a mattress that had never been used and was still in plastic it wouldn't be a bad deal. If your model is higher, then of course the price would be more.

The worst case is that you would have a better (less polyfoam in the firm) mattress that by itself or with a topper could make a decent guest mattress ... and you would have a really nice mattress to sleep on for yourself.

Phoenix

I've been mattress shopping for about the past month...I have tried several latex mattress including the Natural Choice Hotel Collection by Macy's, & a few other mattress store brands that weren't as familiar to me & I can't remember.

I tried the Embody line, and by far out of all mattresses I've tried, the Embody Shelter was the most comfortable. Of course I would love to save some money over the nearly $2900 for the Cali King Embody Shelter, but again, all the mattresses I've tried did not compare to in terms of comfort, spring, and support. How can I know I will be happy with something I order online, when it seems so many other latex mattresses did not match up to what admittadly seems like a pretty meager setup from a spec standpoint on the Shelter (only 6.5" latex).

Thanks for your input.

The problem is what exactly are you getting for $2900?  What kind of latex?  What ILD rating?  What kind of foam is underneath?  How long will that foam last? Can you return it?  You can get 6" of high quality foam and 6" of latex for about half of that, so what is the extra premium for? 

Without knowing that, I would not buy it.  That does not mean it is not comfortable and that you would not like it.

Exactly.

Laying on beds with the same specs, I would say the Sealy was more comfortable....Why is that? That's the question I have, & is it as simple as the ingredients/components. Does it have something to do with the build?

Otherwise it's a no brainer to order one of these internet only companies..just afraid that I would come to the same conclusions as I did with the beds that looked better from the standpoint of foam specs, but were just not as comfortable.

*shrug*

What did you try in comparison? Were the others too soft, too firm, or what?  Were they 100% latex?

Maybe you like the feel of the non-latex foam base.  It is possible that it feels better now, but will soften up too much (and possibly get body impressions) too quickly?  Hard to say.  Do you know anything about the density or other details of the foam base below the latex? 

It is possible that their "smart" latex has a different feel as well.  I don't enough about to know if there is a significant difference from other latex out there.

It is possible that this will be the one you like the most.   I don't think it will last nearly as long as an all latex (assuming not 100% synthetic) mattress, but it is possible that a well made foam base can last quite a while.   Tempurpedic uses a foam base as well, and some people are happy with those for many years.   Not sure how the quality of their foam base would compare to the Sealy.  

If you lay on 4" of talalay 22 ild over 2.1 density HR foam ... it will feel exactly the same as a second mattress using the same foams, thicknesses, and ild's ... this is assuming that what is covering the mattress is the same and that the "wear" on the mattress is also the same.

Having said that, there are ways you can make it feel different depending on what type of mattress you are talking about.

What the mattress is on is one of them.

Laying on a hard mattress and then laying on a softer one will also change the subjective feel.

The mood you are in is another.

And there are many more.

But the actual feel remains the same.

Mattress outlets are very good at creating an atmosphere and "showing" their mattresses in ways that are designed to create an optimal feel. It is to their advantage (and the advantage of the manufacturers) that consumers believe that inconsequential variations in how a mattress is made or what the material is called (yes even this can make a difference in subjective feel) adds significantly to the feel, comfort, durability, or suitability of a mattress.

They love the confusion that comes from the belief that "they are so much more expensive that there must be SOMETHING that makes them better or they wouldn't be selling them"

They are well aware of how easy it is to mislead the "average consumer" (and change their perception) and their sales and training is designed specifically to take advantage of this through implication, half truths, misleading advertising, and in some cases outright misinformation and lies.

Phoenix

PS: None of this is meant in any way to diminish the research, efforts, education, and practices of the more legitimate and more honest people in the industry. When you find these they are a breath of fresh air.

Anyone want a second helping of "intuisoft smart latex" ?????? How about some "NASA foam" for dessert? I promise you it will change your life.

Mike

What most people feel when they are in a store is the top 6" or so (depending on many factors). You can test how well the mattress keeps your spine aligned (supports) through some of the methods I and many others have mentioned in other posts on the forum but most of what you are feeling in the short time you lay on a mattress in a store is the upper layers. What you will feel when you lay on a mattress for one or many nights will almost always be different to some degree from what you felt in a store. The reasons for this are partly the support layers and the "longer term" comfort that comes from proper sleep position and movement and partly the "conditioning" that alters perception when you are comparing many different "feels" and being somewhat overwhelmed by trying to remember and compare something so subjective .... and the "influences" you are subjected to along the way. In some ways it may be easier to tell how a mattress will feel for many nights through research than it is through actually testing and trying to turn such a subjective experience into an objective one. Obviously a combination of research and personal experience is the best.

Having said all of that, I would talk to all three of the people who represent your (non Costco) different options and get a sense of how what they said fit your circumstances. You will get a greater sense of trust in your own judgement when several people say the same thing and you will also get a sense of the differences in opinions and how they may apply to you.

I can't imagine that the Ikea is 40 ILD but I have no experience with it.

You clearly like a firmer feel. Just don't forget that "firm" does not necessarily mean support. It also does not mean that the upper few inches of a "softer material" cannot lead to a firm mattress. Just take a look at the "firm" or even "ultra firm" mattresses sold by the 3 "S" companies (and others of course) and you will see softer foam in the upper couple of inches. Without that you would be sleeping on "wood".  If you haven't already, it may be worth going through step one of what I posted earlier in real world experience just to confirm that you really do like firm in the upper layers of your mattress. Clearly with your size you need more "firmness" in the middle and bottom ... but don't do yourself out of the comfort you want as well in the belief that "sleeping on a rock" is your best option ... or that you can't have both.

Phoenix

PS: Ikea classifies the Elsfjord as a medium and it is also 5 zoned (usually zoning in the material itself is not that big a variance) so with both of these it is not what most people (or at least ikea) would call firm and I doubt it is 40 ILD even in the firm part of the zoning. Having said that, because latex has different qualities and resilience from other foams, it generally will feel a little firmer than other foams ... even though this too depends on many factors.

Once you have reasonably accurate answers to "on what does it depend" you are in a much better position to buy a mattress and fit the different constructions and materials to your own personal circumstances. I would guess that it would only take a few hours of research on this forum to know more than the typical mattress salesman ... and anyone can do this from their own home. Even with a few hours of research though, very few people really believe that they already know more than most of the people offering the opinions they will be subjected to ... and yet they do. It is not hard to tell the "tone" of spin from the "tone" of knowledge and experience. Pointed questions about the source of their information or the specifics of a material will often separate them. When you hear the "tone" of knowledge and experience and the same information is being confirmed by several people you have a much greater likelihood of "getting it right".

Phoenix

Well one guy I was talking to on the phone (that offers a layered latex mattress at a good price but has been rarely mentioned on this forum thank goodness) said to me out of the blue "what do you do for a living?". I went "huh". He repeated his question. I asked him why he wanted to know and he proceeded to ream me out and in effect told me that I was a bum that had nothing better to do than research mattresses and that I would probably do better in life if I actually "went to work and made a living". There was even more derogatory comments in his tirade but you get the gist. The funniest part was that I hadn't even answered his question.

I think he had a problem with some of the questions I asked and some of the information I had that contradicted what he wanted me to believe (laughing). Needless to say I didn't and wouldn't buy anything from him ... at any price.

Phoenix

This is the Erjford: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60109592 listed as firm.

I'm not sure where you found the the Elsjford is medium firm, although I have seen other people on one of the forums refer to it as that also.  It is definately not medium firm, it is about as firm as anything I have tried.

It is probably the "most firm" of their mattresses but this is relative. A feeling of firmness is also dependent on many things ... and I personally would not put this mattress under anyone but a child or a very light adult. Synthetic latex is the "worst of the best". In general synthetic latex lacks the "resilience" of a blend or natural latex ... even though in a blend it does add "compression resistance" to the natural material according to the research I have read. The overall "feel" of blends or natural (combination of comfort and support and the ability to conform) is better. This mattress is also so thin that part of it's "firmness" would come from the thinness itself and it's feeling would be much more dependent on what it was placed on.

I would at least consider the Erfjord (f and j reversed from your post) because it is a blend (high content of natural latex) and is thicker. I wouldn't consider the elsfjord.

In WW ll, when natural rubber was not so easily available (to the allies anyway), they used a lot of SBR (synthetic latex) by necessity and they found that overall it did not have the same combination of desireable qualities of the natural material. Of course there has been a lot of research done since then.

When Sealy first came out with their synthetic latex cores ... it was being touted as "the highest quality available" and as "state of the art". Interesting that they don't seem to be using them anymore and that they are now "glowing" about more natural versions of both Dunlop and Talalay.

Phoenix

I would not worry that the sleepez will be too soft.  You can get it all in XF (44ILD) dunlop if you want, and it will be plenty firm.  I am sure that would be too firm for 99% of the people out there.  The beauty (and possible hassle though) is that it can be customized to what you like.

The Ikea would certainly be a cheap alternative if you like it.  I think you said it is all synthetic, which I would not be too excited about (never tried but supposedely the worst of the latex options).

You can probably get one of the thinner Sleepez to keep the cost down, because sounds like you don't need it very thick or soft.
 

Does that person you are refering to have some pretty hilarious videos on the internet where he tells the world what latex is?

Mike

Phoenix

But I guess that anything that gets a good laugh is a good accident.

Phoenix

I saw in one of your other posts that you like the Pure Latex Bliss mattresses at Sleepys.  There is a Sleepys very close to me.  Now I was getting close to deciding on ordering from SleepEZ, so I was wondering if you or anyone else would rate one of these over the other.  The Sleepys looks to be a little more expensive, but if it is better I would consider it since it is a 10 minute drive.

Mike

Phoenix

Mike

As far as which represents the better value for you is part of the risk/reward thing that each of us have to decide for ourselves. I would choose either of them over the embody of course and the SleepEZ is a lower cost but what it is worth to buy a bed that you have actually laid on is a question that only you can answer.

The most important thing is that everything is perfect for you. At least you are choosing between good options :)

Phoenix

I would do a little homework on the web... if you decide to go in this direction ... and let Sleepys know the prices you have found (if any are lower) and also the prices that you have discovered for other mattresses that are comparable (7" of Talalay latex). This one is at the lower end of their scale and I personally would tend towards their models with more latex in the top layer but that is me. If you go in this direction make sure you resist the "I want to like it" feeling (of course encouraged by the salesperson) and that you really do feel you are getting the value you are looking for in terms of comfort, risk, price, service, materials, and everything else that is important to you.

Phoenix

If you are happy with all of this, then it seems like a pretty good choice to me.

Phoenix

I'm looking forward to your "report". I haven't seen any reports on this specific model so it will be very interesting to hear what you think.

Phoenix