Mattress Forum

http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/diy-slat-foundation-pictures-included/4898-0-1.html

I would love to have all those drawers.

Linda:  Why do you think the metal frame wouldn't be good.  Look at Prama website, it looks good and simple to me, and cheap.

Here is the link on the Euro slat foundation click here  It flexes and I think that would really make a difference on comfort without sinking in.  Almost like springs.  Though hopefully not as hard.

If you look at the link above your posting, Haysdb put lots of great pictures showing how you make they make slats firmer in the area you want.  I would put the firm plastic things in the hip area to make it firm, and leave the shoulder area to flex.  I don't know if you would have that much motion transfer, particularly if the system is split, I believe they are split for queen and king.

I think this would be like a spring mattress.  Nobody has talked much about this system.  I have seen these at Ikea, but I don't buy from them since they refused to allow me to return a mattress topper that was not the same as their floor model, it was over $200 too!  Still fuming over that one.  I love to rant and rave

Sure wish someone here would post here if they have a Euro Slat foundation. 

BTW, in the event you're wondering, I don't make it a normal practice to lie on bare wood slats. I was taking a break from packing up the mattress to send back, and I must say, it was the most comfortable surface I'd slept on in a long time! 

Not to overtax our resident mattress expert, but Budgy has a compelling explanation for what makes flex slat systems so great. So you might want to PM him if he doesn't make an appearance here..

Hope this helps!

The reason I was thinking about the Euro Slats is I remembered outside furniture that had plastic strips spaced apart like the Slats, and how comfy they were, and I had no pressure points.  Of course I didn't lay on my sides, but I would have hip pain if I didn't have some give in the chair.

Did you keep the Euro Slats to try a thinner latex bed?

I'd love to try an adjustable slat frame.

I have used foam just flat on the floor and I had no problem with it. Maybe if you live in a very humid area or sleep on a concrete floor at ground level it could be a problem but for many situations I think just putting a mattress - spring or foam - on the floor can be just fine. Then again, maybe some backs need some "give" under them. Who the heck knows? Now I'm back to "Woudn't it be great to have unlimited funds to try this and that...?"

So anyway, my reply to the question re inexpensive foundation for latex, is: The Floor.

Or a "regular" S company box. Many of them have no "spring" anymore, they're just wood slats with material over them. Sometimes you can get real good deals on them if the mattress store wants to make a sale bad enough.

If I were "handy", had the tools and such, I would just build one. I'd build a frame and make it just high enough to clean easily under it with a vacuum, and put slats across it. This goes back to the other thread about toxins in latex and such:

My one concern is the smell from wood. God knows what kind of chemicals they treat wood with, I have noticed that a lumber store smells pretty "toxic". I wonder, if I were to buy some wood, what kind would be best to buy, to avoid toxins? I know, regular wood, itself, should be natural enough. But it smells like maybe they treat it with chemicals...??

Anyone know for sure?  Just anothe issue for me to think about, UGH!!!

I agree Jim I need an unlimited amount of money to try all of these things.  I am so desperate to sleep more than a few hours at a time.....  I just want to sleep on my sides without pain.

There really are a variety of different base options that you can use for a latex bed.  Slats of some kind whether they are completely solid or flexible is preferrable for the airflow alone.

Adjustable/flexible slat's are even better, and the very best would be dowellings with some kind of adjustable suspension underneath.  There are lots of different ways you can build this style of base.  Some of them allow for the actual tension in the slats themselves to be adjusted, or even completely removed.  Some rely on the slats doing all of the bending where as others would prefer to use a suspension underneath slats or dowels to provide the flex.  Its all based on proper ergonomics principle, for truly optimum posture and pressure relief down the length of the body you 'might' need more than just vertical contouring support (which is what good latex will provide), you can enhance the lateral support via slats/dowels. 

Technically speaking it is much more optimum to 'zone' a bsse than it is to 'zone' a mattress, its more expensive to do it this way but it is better.  When you change the vertical support in the mattress itself by zoning it, you are negating the mattresses ability to conform precisely to body shape.  This may or may not be an issue for some people.  By changing the lateral support you can bias support to be more or less in any region of your body without interfering with the mattress conforming to the shape of the body. 

Flobeds uses a flexible slat system in one of their base options which is very similar to what Natura uses in their mechanical adjustable bases, a convex shaped slat system held in place with some kind of polymer anchor that is quite supple.  And on a few key areas there are 2 slats stacked one on the other which is held in place with some more polymer sliders that can make the bottom slat provide additional support depending on how it is adjusted.  Natura uses this type of system right inside some of their mattresses, which is just like the original mattress they ever made, although I am not sure if it was adjustable.

The reason dowelings are better is that they do not flex as much as convex slats do and they stay level while they become depressed, relying almost completely on the suspension to provide the support.  I don't want to plug the name but we have a couple different base systems from one supplier that make some absolutely incredibly foundations that use either all dowels on top of different firmness of polymer anchors or a combination of slats and dowels that sit on top of natural rubber as a suspension.  Interestingly enough I have heard a couple of people on here suggest that a 10" or higher build of rubber is best so you don't feel the base through the rubber layers....this one particular mattress that sits on the all dowellings base is only 8" of rubber and no one can feel the base because everything moves with you, it is meant to feel 'bottomless'.  Yes, even the real heavyweights don't bottom out this one. 

Now to keep some context, this thread is about what is the best inexpensive foundation, then a solid slatted base is going to be just fine for most at the price.  Flexible slatted bases are more money, and flexible dowel bases are even more, more than some mattresses actually.

I sent you a PM.  Just more questions on the Euro slat foundation you had.  What you thought of it, do you think it would break over time.

I'm sorry for the delayed response – I haven't been on the forum in a few days. I thought I'd answer your questions on the public boards in the event my answers are helpful to others.

My Flobeds' Euro Slat foundation was indeed a Queen size. I didn't notice the bar in the middle, but it was beneath 11” of latex and I'm relatively light. However, when I set up the two sides of the bed differently in terms of latex layers/ILD and happened to lie across both sides of the bed (i.e., with one part of my body on one side and the other part of my body on the other side), I couldn't feel the different ILDs on each side but I woke up in major pain. The different ILDs appeared to have contorted my body as I slept.

Re: the mattress, I got the 100% all-natural Talalay v-Zone, made up of three layers of 3” latex (with the top one 'zoned') and the standard 2” convoluted top. I tried just about every configuration of layers on the firm side: XF, F, M (bottom to top); XF, XF, F; XF, M, F; XF, XF, M; etc. I very early on gave up on the v-Zone, because it was clearly not working – so the configurations listed above were for solid (i.e., unzoned) layers.

Unfortunately, Talalay simply didn't work for me and ended up damaging my back – it took me four months on a firm innerspring mattress to recover. When I laid directly on the M latex above the other layers of latex, it was too soft for me, leading to body contortions and pain. But when I laid directly on top of the F or XF, it was far too firm, pushing against my pressure points in a painful and aggravating way. And with each passing night on the bed, my pressure points became increasingly sensitive and tender. These effects eventually led to a continuous low-grade headache, which stayed with me for at least several months after I stopped using the mattress. I rarely get headaches, and I had not suffered from any major back problems prior to all this beyond some upper back pain after extreme strain (long-distance running, moving, etc.), so this was alarming.

Interestingly, I did okay (but not great) lying on 3” of the M latex on top of a firm innerspring.

The Euro Slat foundation itself appeared sturdy and well-built. I think it's largely hand-constructed and free of chemical finishes. Also, it comes in six pieces that are easy to assemble and take apart for storage or transit. Flobeds is GREAT about customizing the foundation and they made a number of tweaks for me, including making the foundation shorter and the legs square rather than the standard round, which made me feel especially bad when I had to return the set. When I laid across the slats, it felt safe and supportive (and immensely comfortable, as I mentioned in my initial post) – although I wouldn't recommend sitting (or standing!) directly on the slats without a mattress on top.

 On the downside, the foundation wasn't perfectly constructed, maybe because it was hand-made (?). For example, the six pieces weren't all flush in some places, and one leg wouldn't screw in properly. Some of the leg casters weren't centered properly on the leg and thus protruded beyond the leg base But these were minor issues and I would absolutely recommend the foundation itself,.

I didn't end up keeping the foundation because I figured it was meant to accompany the latex mattress, and in any event I had decided to go back to a firm innerspring set, which would come with its own boxspring. But now that I think about it, the Euro Slat should work with any latex mattress, not just Flobeds'. The only thing to remember is that the foundation is covered in Flobeds' trademark sheep-patterned wool and cotton fabric, so it might not match other mattresses (I personally don't think this is a big deal).

Also, if you go with the Euro Slat, I personally would recommend using less latex. I think Flobeds sells a 9” version of its mattress, which contains 8” of latex; that might work better, especially if you're of normal or light build. 

BTW, after returning the Flobeds I tried lying on several Savvy Rest Dunlop beds, of different configurations. While I didn't get to try them overnight, I seem to do better with Dunlop, and with thinner mattresses. I think a good combination for me might be 9” of Dunlop on top of a Euro Slats style foundation, but unfortunately Flobeds doesn't offer Dunlop, and Savvy Rest doesn't offer the Euro Slats!

Keep in mind that each person is different, and I appear to have had an extreme reaction to this particular configuration of bed, which seems to have worked immensely well for many others. My troubles with this bed – which were so bad that I have developed a near phobia to bed buying – was surprising, as I am in pretty good physical condition and NEVER had a problem with a bed before. But I guess life's curveballs are what keeps it interesting!

 I hope this doesn't make things more confusing. Please let me know if you have more questions.

I'm trying another variation of the flex slats which is a lot pricier and will report back once I get it and can put decent time on it.

I was in Ikea today and looked at a couple of their latex mattresses and the slats they offer. The most expensive slat system was $300 and I can't say I would trust it, the slats were awfully thin. It was motorized, but did not have a box frame around it like Flobeds has. It is interesting to note that the most expensive of their latex mattresses, which was springy, comfy and bouncy was set on a box spring. The next one down was set on adjustable slats and it was not springy at all.

So... back to square one for me.  I may buy the Flobeds slats and get a mettress elsewhere.

Thanks for that info.  Can you put a link or info on the slats you are looking at buying?

After reading and re-reading your posting it just makes me more afraid to try anything new.  My back and hips do not like the latex toppers over my spring mattress.  Do you have a latex topper over your spring mattress now?  What ILD would you use if you were to try again 32ILD in blended talalay?  If Natural Talalay didn't agree with you wouldn't Dunlop also not agree with you?

The construction of the slats doesn't sound so good for over $700 in my opinion. Now I am back to square one.  I want to see and buy locally after hearing this, but unless I bought a very expensive Natura at Sears that is all I can come up with in the ideas for buying locally.

Thanks for all that detailed info.  Makes me more afraid though.  My back is pretty messed up after sleeping on the latex for a year now with it being soft enough for my shoulder, and my hips are in pain from sleeping on too soft and hitting the hard mattress.  So not sure what to do.

How long have you had the Flobed?

Hi Leo, I'm sorry I made you more anxious with my answers -- I can relate, as I myself have gotten nearly phobic about the bed-buying process, having learned from my recent experience that the wrong bed can not only wreak havoc on one's sleep and all one's waking hours, but can also lead to a ridiculously time-consuming process to work through and resolve. I've already spent untold hours on researching and trying out beds, not wanting to repeat the same bad mistake.

I will say that a firm mostly cotton tufted innerspring (with minimal padding) ended up being great for my back, but I got rid of it for other reasons. I did try it with a latex topper and didn't love it, but it was slightly more comfortable than lying on just the innerspring.

I wouldn't try Talalay again, as it was so disastrous for me last time. To be honest, I am a little worried that the Dunlop might be problematic too, but when I lay on several Savvy rest ones the Dunlop felt more solid with less 'push-back'. I have also been reassured that Dunlop is closer to innerspring than Talalay so I am hoping (praying) this will be the answer.

Have you tried a high-quality innerspring? I wonder if that will help, with a soft topper (e.g., the wool one you have, maybe a little thicker on on top of a thin dunlop topper) for your hips. I think for some back problems, as with mine, a firm mattress can help.

Also, I didn't mean to discourage you re: the Flobeds Euro Slat foundation. I actually thought it was a good product for the price, even if the workmanship could have been a tad better on the details. Overall, it seemed sturdy and functional.

That's what I've got.  But it's unsupported in the middle.

Linda

Did the Euro slat foundation creak or make noises when you toss and turned?

I am still undecided on the whole thing.  I have only been searching for over a year for the "perfect" solution.

Did you make a decision on your slat foundation?  Or a mattress?

Inkholder, Did you find a foundation that works with your Flobed?  What setup did you end up with (F, F, XF?) and the Vzone?  

The nomad for king size is $199 on Amazon, and does not look very sturdy to me.  The side rails look thin.

Plus I am building mine in two pieces which will make it much easier to move in the future.

Can you provide your DIY list of materials and pictures?  That sounds great to me.

for legs, I am using what Home Depot calls a Waddell Leg.  Here is a picture:

They come in all different lengths.  I am going to use 6 or 9 inch legs.

To attach the legs to the foundation, i will use the Waddell Plates:

The legs come with the 5/16" screw in the end and that just screws into the above brackets.

With the two foundations bolted togeter, I will have one leg in each corner using the triangle shaped bracket.  And three legs down the center rail using the square bracket.

You could use 2 x 8 lumber, but I want a bit of extra height, so I think I am going to go with the 2 x 10 lumber.

I am going to use 14 slats, so on a king sized foundation, they will have about 2.375 inches between them.

I have the foundation modeled in 3D.  Let me see if I can get a screen shot and I will post the picture.

Hope that helps

Using 2 x 10 construction and 9 inch legs, the price (without sales tax) comes to about $99.00

My local Home Depot will cut your lumber to size at no extra charge, well they have for me in the past, hopefully it still holds true today.  So all I have to do is nail/screw it together.

My 3D model is coming in at about 117 pounds when made with 2 x 10 construction and about 100 pounds with 2 x 8 construction.

For this design you will need:

4 - 2" x 8" x 10' boards (cut one 38 inch piece and one 77 inch piece from each board)

14 - 1" x 4" x 8' firring strips (cut two 38 inch pieces from each board)

7 - Waddell Legs

4 - Waddell Corner (triangle) Plates

3 - Waddell Square Plates

Wow now that is details   Does HD have the wadell plates?  I guess you drill holes in the bottom of the frame, attach the waddel plant and then just screw in the legs?  Is this a kit or something at HD?  I will have to take a look I remember seeing legs at HD, didn't remember those plates though.  Cynicaljones could do that on her Sleepeze frame then couldn't she...if she decides to keep the mattress set.

That sounds like quite a project, and you really have it planned out, must be some great software you have to draw it out.  Does HD really have good lumber, and how can you tell if it is untreated?  I want safe untreated wood if I ever do this (husband does it I mean ).

Thanks for the details and pics.  Should be nice and sturdy.

Yes, Home Depot has the Waddell plates and they are shown to be sold at my local store.  They might not be available at all local stores though.  They would attach to the rails and the legs screw into them as you described.

It is not a kit from HD, just the parts.  They have treated and untreated lumber.  It should be clearly marked in the store if it is pressure treated or not.

The software I used to design it is called SolidWorks.  It is a very powerful and intuitive software package. 

My wool on top mattress pad has a polyester backing that is stiff and it has ripped my latex to shreds.  So I had to put the blanket over the latex, then the wool on top mattress and hope it is not ripping it anymore.  So that is something to try to prevent rips and tears from using the mattress.

Keep us posted on how your project goes.  Sounds better than store bought.

Hey Laredo, great post! Thanks for all the details re making a platform. This might work perfect for me.

I am using a Sealy box springs and it's old and I am wondering if it might actually be contributing to the lower back pain I have. I am skeptical that a box spring really even makes much difference but who knows? Might be good to have one (a good one) or it might not be good at all, with latex. I'm going to post a question about this and some other issues.

I did have one error in my calculations.  It was on the weight of the foundation.  I fat fingered the value for the wood denisty in my initial calculations, so the foundation will weigh 50% more than what I posted above (with respect to using untreated pine).  Helps when you type in 30 as oppsed to 20...lol...I noticed it because I built the first half downstairs (more room to work) and then had to lug it upstairs to the bedroom.  Needless to say, I built the second half in the bedroom.

Do the 1" x 4" slats seem solid and supportive (no sag)?

I'm probably going to stick with my Wally World platform (since I've already purchased it) covered with 1" Lux foam skin or 1/8" hardboard. (It's still unopened, though... still waiting for a few of my mattress components to arrive.) Otherwise I'd consider building your foundation. I kinda like that idea, actually... would make my whole project "home brew". Well, I guess I will be assembling the Wally platform myself, so a bit of consolation there!