Just bought a new Flobeds
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I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. Thanks for the update Eagle, I was wondering what happened to ya RE: your purchase. I'm wondering how you'll like the latex. I found that my latex gives me good support but it's not "plush" like memory foam. It doesn't sleep cool but it doesn't sleep hot either (maybe it's the bamboo sheets I use). Some have reported it sleeps hot, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that. Also if you feel that zoning makes any difference or not vs regular? |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Vaphils wrote: Thanks for the update Eagle, I was wondering what happened to ya RE: your purchase. I'm wondering how you'll like the latex. I found that my latex gives me good support but it's not "plush" like memory foam. It doesn't sleep cool but it doesn't sleep hot either (maybe it's the bamboo sheets I use). Some have reported it sleeps hot, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that. Also if you feel that zoning makes any difference or not vs regular? Vaphils: I plan on keeping a daily diary so that I will be able to recall everything about my experience. I will be sure to post back and let you know what that experience is. I, like you and many others, find this whole process quite confusing. Simply because we are not only built different, but we are psychologically different, one from the other. One of the principal reasons that I went with the FloBeds is there excellent exchange policy. No other company on the Internet, as far as I know, allows the same flexibility and therefore opportunity to find what works best for you. David Turner has been in the mattress business for 30 years. His whole concept has been to try and find for the individual their best sleep surface. If memory serves correctly, from what I read on his website, he started out working with waterbeds. In fact he still sells waterbeds. He has also worked with air beds and sells them as well. By he likes latex foam the best because it is the least trouble once you find your proper firmness level. That is why he invented the zone system. I will keep you apprised of my developments. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hi eagle2, I've been going through some posts, including yours, and think I read in different posts (if I'm remembering correctly) that you were getting an all-dunlap bed, then that you ordered a combination talalay-dunlap, and now an all talalay flobed? Did you try the others or change your mind? Curious because it'd be great to hear your experience of the various ones. I'm still working on my flo-beds set-up, which I hope I can make work (all natural talaly). Flobeds has been great to work with, excellent customer service. Linda |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: Hi eagle2, I've been going through some posts, including yours, and think I read in different posts (if I'm remembering correctly) that you were getting an all-dunlap bed, then that you ordered a combination talalay-dunlap, and now an all talalay flobed? Did you try the others or change your mind? Curious because it'd be great to hear your experience of the various ones. I'm still working on my flo-beds set-up, which I hope I can make work (all natural talaly). Flobeds has been great to work with, excellent customer service. Linda Linda: Yes it has been a very convoluted experience. I will spare you the details as they are not pertinent to the questions you're asking, but rather have to do with business dealings, and not beds. But needless to say it has not been a fun trip getting from where I started to finally winding up with FloBeds. It is true I thought I wanted,(and still wonder about) some Dunlop latex in my bed. This was the reason that I did not go with FloBeds to begin with, as they are principally and primarily a Talalay company. So I really cannot give you any experience between Dunlop and Talalay at this point in time. The mattress that I have ordered is all Talalay. I will be sure to report back here and give you my experiences as I plan on keeping a daily diary. Yes, Dave Turner of Flobeds is excellent to work with. In fact, although it has been a rather protracted and exasperating experience, I'm actually glad that everything happen as it did now, and I wound up with FloBeds. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I look forward to hearing your review of your new mattress eagle. Thank you for keeping us all in the loop. Jay |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks for your reply eagle2. I'm wondering if you had a bad experience with SavvyRest; isn't that where you were going to go initially? Linda |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks for your reply eagle2. I'm wondering if you had a bad experience with SavvyRest; isn't that where you were going to go initially? Linda |
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linda wrote: Thanks for your reply eagle2. I'm wondering if you had a bad experience with SavvyRest; isn't that where you were going to go initially? Linda Linda: Yes Savvy Rest was the company I went with initially. It wasn't that there was anything wrong with the company or their product, as far as I know they are both good. The problem centered around a business arrangement that did not work out. So I say to anyone who has their product, or is thinking about purchasing from them, that they should have no qualms about doing business with them directly. At least that was my impression with the limited business dealings I had dealing directly with Savvy Rest. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
Welcome to AWESOME comfort and sleep. You have made a wise decision. I would fight tooth and nail if someone tried to take MY Flobed I have had mine for over a year now and I STILL look forward to going to bed every night! I realize that everyone is different. I would not insult anyone by suggesting that a Flobed latex mattress is for everyone. Having tried every type of bed under the sun, including other brands of latex, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, comes close to the comfort and support of my Flobed! I sincerely hope that you have the same experience.Gizmodo |
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First nights sleep report. The FloBeds mattress arrived yesterday the 28th in good shape. Getting the mattress in place was a lot more difficult than I had been led to believe. First of all Pat and I had one hard time removing the old waterbed. I did not rent a pump, which I should have, and so it was a long time draining. Then unfortunately I stop the draining because I thought it had become partially plugged up with the old flotation material. This ended any future draining, which was too bad because there was about 10 or 15 gallons of water left in the waterbed. This amounts to something like 150 pounds of sloshing mush of waterbed for two old people to try and handle. So we worked ourselves to death just getting the old waterbed out of the bedroom. So we were wore out before we even started installing the new bed. Latex, all-natural rubber, is quite heavy. We didn’t get done until about 10 o’clock at night and we started at four in the afternoon. The process actualy went on much longer due to removing the waterbed. We started this process about 1 PM. As you will recall the Flobeds is a natural 100% botanically grown latex 4 layer mattress. It is all Talalay process latex. In any event this is the way the bed was constructed. Looking at the headboard from the footboard, on the left side the bottom layer is extra firm, the middle layer is firm, and the top layer is medium. On the right side the bottom layer is extra firm, the middle layer is extra firm, and the top layer is firm. Overlaying the entire Cal King bed is a 2-inch piece of convoluted very soft Talalay foam. I found this bed to be much firmer than I had been led to believe by many posters at “what’s the best mattress.com.” I don’t know how anybody could feel like they are “falling through” a configuration like this. Naturally the left side of the bed is less firm than the right side of the bed. But I found sleeping on the mattress that both sides were very comfortable. But I did prefer the less firm left side of the bed. I awoke this morning feeling refreshed and without any back pain (and I have a bad back)or anything from all the strain of the previous day’s work getting rid of the waterbed and installing the new latex bed. This in itself is quite a tribute to the bed because both Pat and I were really beat when we finally quit work last night. One other point I want to make. I normally have to take some kind of nasal spray at night because my nose usually gets all stuffed up. I did not take any nasal sprayer, and I only had a very partial blockage of my nasal passages. In any event I believe I have an excellent bed and I will be reporting on a daily bases for the next few days so that you will have a more clear picture of this process. This message was modified Sep 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Congrats for receipt of your new FloBed & setting it up. What a fiasco for both of you! Glad you had good nite on it.... Thanks for words of encouragement for Savvy....doing Savvy because of Dunlap - but maybe Talalay would be ok if you find the extra firm to be good and firm...interesting & also glad I haven't ordered yet!! Can't wait for your next post! lol p.s. re: nasal spray - if you are using anything but saline, PLEASE DO NOT QUIT COLD TURKEY!!! Those OTC sprays (non-saline) are meant for 3 days use only. Our best friend survived a massive stroke after getting hooked on daily doses of nasal spray & then quitting cold turkey. By end of 1st day off of it, he had mild headache. Headaches continued thru the week & stroke on 6th day off of it. Had he cut back slowly, he would not have had the stroke. His blood vessels got used to opening up with the nasal spray, but without it, they got more & more constricted, causing the stroke in the back of his brain! Drs could find no reason for his stroke until I told our friend to tell them about his habitual use of nasal spray. They now say that it's possible this scenario caused his stroke. After one year, they did a repeat MRI of his brain, expecting to see the constricted vessels that they originally said he "had since birth".....I said BS - when you have that MRI next year, your vessels will be back to normal as the constriction was from going off nasal spray cold turkey. Sure enough, his vessels were 100% normal - so nothing "since birth" there at all! Pls pass this info to anyone you know you uses non-saline nasal spray on daily basis....in case they want to stop using it. Caution needed. |
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Catlover thanks for the info on nasal sprays. I knew they could screw you up but didn know they could cause stroke! What about prescription non-systemic steroid type sprays like flonase or beconase? Do you know? I use these semi-regularly, and have gone off them cold turkey many times. Eagle2, glad to hear you are happy with your mattress! I remember taking my waterbed out! I had a similarly long and hard day of work with that. That's one reason I gave up on waterbeds. However, I must say, all the years I used a waterbed, I had fewer back issues. Coincidence? Could be that it's because I had the car accidents after the waterbed... Anyway, keep us posted on how you like the flobed. The big advantage is that you can fine tune it for not too much money, so don't be afraid to order different toppers etc. When I had one, they let me keep several of the toppers and sections for as long as I wanted within the trial period, then send them back; so I had more foam pieces to use to fine tune it. Then I sent them back and it only cost me the shipping. Good luck! |
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The steroid nasal sprays are safe, and meant to be used daily. Unfortunately they don't provide the same nasal congestion relief as Afrin and the other sprays, but, as Catlover said, these sprays are highly addictive. I can't even use them now for more than a day without getting rebound congestion. I think my new mattress setup made my congestion better, though--latex/pu foam has to be better than dustmite-infested spring mattresses! |
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catlover wrote: Congrats for receipt of your new FloBed & setting it up. What a fiasco for both of you! Glad you had good nite on it.... Thanks for words of encouragement for Savvy....doing Savvy because of Dunlap - but maybe Talalay would be ok if you find the extra firm to be good and firm...interesting & also glad I haven't ordered yet!! Can't wait for your next post! lol p.s. re: nasal spray - if you are using anything but saline, PLEASE DO NOT QUIT COLD TURKEY!!! Those OTC sprays (non-saline) are meant for 3 days use only. Our best friend survived a massive stroke after getting hooked on daily doses of nasal spray & then quitting cold turkey. By end of 1st day off of it, he had mild headache. Headaches continued thru the week & stroke on 6th day off of it. Had he cut back slowly, he would not have had the stroke. His blood vessels got used to opening up with the nasal spray, but without it, they got more & more constricted, causing the stroke in the back of his brain! Drs could find no reason for his stroke until I told our friend to tell them about his habitual use of nasal spray. They now say that it's possible this scenario caused his stroke. After one year, they did a repeat MRI of his brain, expecting to see the constricted vessels that they originally said he "had since birth".....I said BS - when you have that MRI next year, your vessels will be back to normal as the constriction was from going off nasal spray cold turkey. Sure enough, his vessels were 100% normal - so nothing "since birth" there at all! Pls pass this info to anyone you know you uses non-saline nasal spray on daily basis....in case they want to stop using it. Caution needed. Catlover: Thank you for the warning about the nasal spray. I will keep that in mind. Let me try to reassure you about the Dunlop. I cannot give advice about Dunlop of course as I have not used it, since this is my first latex bed. I felt exactly as you do regarding Dunlop versus Talalay. I think the mattress manufacturers do themselves a disservice by sending out these samples that are small pieces. You just cannot get any kind of an idea about what a piece of latex foam is like by squeezing on a small 3 inch cube. I know it would cost them more money to ship but I would think a 12" Square 3 inches thick would be a much better sample to try and get a feel for. The regular mail might be too expensive, but give the potential customer a choice between getting it quick and getting a small 3 inch cube, or waiting for the UPS man to deliver it and having a larger piece, might prove fruitful. It's very easy for us folks to armchair this kind of a business decision, when it isn't our money! In any event though it was quite protracted, I am very glad that I wound up with FloBeds. David and Dewey Turner are good people to work with, because they want to work with you. But I will say this about Talalay Catlover. A lot of the opinion that I have read about Talalay has just not proven true for me at this point in time. As I indicated earlier one side of my bed is medium, over firm, over extra firm. and there's no way that I feel like I'm falling through it or that it is too soft and nonsupportive. And I'm 6 foot 2, 210 pounds. Now granted, I have just come off 20 years of sleeping on a waterbed. A waterbed experience is like no other experience out there that I'm aware of. It can be a very soft experience and still be supportive. You just have to be careful that it doesn't get too soft and therefore nonsupportive. But I would have no qualms about advising you to try Talalay as opposed to Dunlop in so far as support goes. Now again, keep in mind, I have only slept on this for one night. But I have lain down on the mattress at various times through the day just to test out how I would feel. I was feeling a little tired this afternoon, after our long day of work yesterday, so I thought I would lay down and try out the bed a little while. The next thing I knew I was sound asleep and took about a 30 minute nap. For me at least, Talalay is quite supportive. So much so that I'm thinking about talking to Dave Turner about trying out a soft piece of Talalay. But then again using FloBeds Firmness Advisor, and modifying the input data slightly I come up with the advice of, firm, over medium, over firm. I already possess this level of firmness that I can interchange and try it out. I have finally come to the conclusion, that for me, possibly the best approach is the softest bed I can generate that will give me good restful support. At least it's a theory I'm going to look into. Savvy Rest looks like a good company, and I would not be afraid to purchase from them. But just keep in mind that FloBeds has the best exchange and return policy on the Internet, that I am aware. Good luck with your choice. This message was modified Sep 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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jimsocal wrote: Catlover thanks for the info on nasal sprays. I knew they could screw you up but didn know they could cause stroke! What about prescription non-systemic steroid type sprays like flonase or beconase? Do you know? I use these semi-regularly, and have gone off them cold turkey many times. Eagle2, glad to hear you are happy with your mattress! I remember taking my waterbed out! I had a similarly long and hard day of work with that. That's one reason I gave up on waterbeds. However, I must say, all the years I used a waterbed, I had fewer back issues. Coincidence? Could be that it's because I had the car accidents after the waterbed... Anyway, keep us posted on how you like the flobed. The big advantage is that you can fine tune it for not too much money, so don't be afraid to order different toppers etc. When I had one, they let me keep several of the toppers and sections for as long as I wanted within the trial period, then send them back; so I had more foam pieces to use to fine tune it. Then I sent them back and it only cost me the shipping. Good luck! Jim: Thank you for the post. Yes I really like waterbeds! But they can be a hassle. And since at my stage of the game, if I were going to try something else I had better go ahead and do it. So, my adventure into the land of latex. While it is far too early to have any kind of concrete idea about how this is going to turn out, my initial impression is that it's going to work just fine. Dave Turner at FloBeds began working with mattresses that were waterbeds. In fact I believe he slept on a waterbed as long as I did, or possibly even longer. He says the reason he changed was the very thing that you have indicated. It just became too much of a hassle over time. He is very much into trying to find the right comfort level for the individual. As I just stated, he's been into waterbeds and still is, into air mattresses and still is, and now principally he sells latex mattresses. He has invented the zone system and in fact sleeps on this kind of a mattress himself. My excursion into the wilderness of mattress manufacturing has only encompassed about a two-month period of time. But it has pretty much been night and day, seven days a week. I've read everything I could find and communicated quite a bit on this forum. I've gone back and read a great deal in their archives. From everything I have been able to find, FloBeds seems to be the most adaptive and willing to work with their customers of anyone that I have found. This is not to disparage against any other company. It also became obvious to me from my reading, telephoning, and actually going to visit a dealer, that the niche market manufacturers such as Savvy Rest, FloBeds, SleepEZ, Habitat and others, are doing the most to let the customer choose what goes into their mattress based on knowledge and not "flimflam" that we get from to many of the mainline mattress manufactures. I will continue to keep everyone posted on my experience, as I know how important this was to me in trying to make this very important decision. For a great many of us, spending between $2000 to $3000 is no small adventure. This message was modified Sep 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Wednesday, September 30, 2009 I slept well last night. I believe it is convenient to have both a soft side and a firmer side to help compensate for various physical conditions. I find that I do most of my sleeping on the softer side, but occasionally use the firmer side. I am wondering if I cannot soften up some more the side that has medium, over firm, over extra firm, and have an even more restful sleep. I’ll just have to give it some more time before I make this determination to try any different grades of latex. I would just like to reiterate, what I have stated before, regarding what some folks who seem to feel about Talalay not being supportive enough. Some have stated that Talalay felt like they were "falling through the latex", I am finding this is not the case for me. I don't know how anyone who needs a firm bed would find my Cal King firm side inadequate for proper support. Given my size and weigh, the firm, over extra firm, over extra firm, is quite supportive, to say the least. I will report again tomorrow. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| I also think talalay is very supportive, in the higher ILDs. Nothing in a low ILD is supportive. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Congratulations eagle2 on your new FloBeds Mattress Latex Kit. I love my Latex FloBed also. I used to have to use decongestants before bed and many times they kept me up before I bought my Talalay Latex Bed. So far me, I looked into Latex for my allergies and also got a good night's sleep and support with very firm layers with a little cushion on top. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
Thank you Lynn for your response. In fact "Thank You Everyone" for your responses. I had another good nights sleep last night. However I suffered some discomfort but it was not from the bed. I took my flu shot Monday and consequently I have what really consists of a very mild case of flu. This manifests itself primarily as very mild hot flashes that come and go. This does cause some sleep discomfort. So I guess it's quite a tribute to the bed that I had as good a nights sleep as I did. I am going to stop recording on a daily basis for a while as it becomes rather redundant to keep saying the same thing over and over. I have ordered two more cores of latex from FloBeds. A soft layer and another medium layer. This will give me an opportunity to test a theory that I have. Namely, I want the softest surface that will give me really good support. What I prefer right now is the softer side of my California King bed. It is arranged, as you may recall, from top to bottom, medium, over firm, over extra firm. The other side is to firm for me. It is arranged top to bottom, firm, over extra firm, over extra firm. So, I will do some rearranging once I get the new cores next week, and see if I cannot come up with the ideal configuration. Once I have something substantive to report I will do so. |
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eagle2 wrote: Thank you Lynn for your response. In fact "Thank You Everyone" for your responses. I had another good nights sleep last night. However I suffered some discomfort but it was not from the bed. I took my flu shot Monday and consequently I have what really consists of a very mild case of flu. This manifests itself primarily as very mild hot flashes that come and go. This does cause some sleep discomfort. So I guess it's quite a tribute to the bed that I had as good a nights sleep as I did. I am going to stop recording on a daily basis for a while as it becomes rather redundant to keep saying the same thing over and over. I have ordered two more cores of latex from FloBeds. A soft layer and another medium layer. This will give me an opportunity to test a theory that I have. Namely, I want the softest surface that will give me really good support. What I prefer right now is the softer side of my California King bed. It is arranged, as you may recall, from top to bottom, medium, over firm, over extra firm. The other side is to firm for me. It is arranged top to bottom, firm, over extra firm, over extra firm. So, I will do some rearranging once I get the new cores next week, and see if I cannot come up with the ideal configuration. Once I have something substantive to report I will do so. Sorry to hear of your mild flu from your shot... My son ends up in bed for a week when he gets it, so he stopped taking it altogether. Doctors insist that it's not possible to get the flu from a dead vaccine, but too many people DO get sick.Glad your case is mild. How nice that FloBeds is working with you - I'll be following as anxious to know how your back feels after a week or even 2 wks out....just in case. Is your Talalay natural or blended synthetic? I am under the impression that in order to get the higher ILD in Talalay, it has to be blended with synthetics. Don't know where I got that from however. So much conflicting into makes this $3K decision almost impossible. Might just come down to best return policy as this is a crap shoot for those of us who could potentially suffer with incorrect support. The good news is that I found a Savvy store 53 miles away so doing that on Sat. (they have the Dunlop set-up, and only one layer of Talalay but our purpose is Dunlop. Will report back. Also found place in CT (where we live) with Latex Int'l Talalay set up (same as all the comfort beds we seek...) The owner couldn't be nicer, but he has some opinions that bother me, like Talalay blended synthetic, is superior to Dunlop. (he doesn't offer Dunlop & bashed it) He told me the Dunlop process doesn't use molds (it does) so I'm a bit suspect at this point, but we need to go up there to try Talalay too. Most interesting is that he's a former marketing employee with Latex Intl'. That said, he's more than willing to work with us to get bed perfect & no shipping with exchanges as he's just an hour from us. He is very puzzled as to where I got my info that suggests we need Dunlop for firm support (but seems you are finding the Talalay very firm so he may have a point) I need to ask about money back if we end up needing Dunlop, which he can't provide... Well, continued sweet dreams on that new bed. Your post is helping me more than you can imagine. Thank you so much! |
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Catlover: You might want to go to the "Dunlop versus Talalay" thread and read my last post. The bed that I purchased from FloBeds is an all natural 100% botanically grown Talalay processed mattress. I know what you mean about people trying to sell Dunlop over Talalay or Talalay over Dunlop depending on what it is that they are promoting. One thing I found out for sure, and I find quite interesting since I was of the opinion that Dunlop was more supportive than Talalay, is that that is not the case, as far as Talalay being supportive. I still cannot compare the two because I do not have a Dunlop bed. Everybody is just so different. Even we ourselves will change, to some extent or another, from one night to another, depending upon what the day has been like. For instance. If you had a particularly rough day and tweak your back, you very well may need a more supportive surface than your bed currently allows. But after you get your back healed up, you want your softer mattress surface back. It's just the way of being a human. I slept on a waterbed for over 20 years. So I tend to like a softer sleeping surface. But I certainly want good support so that I do not have back problems from my bed. I know that as my waterbed got older, and the flotation material deteriorated, that I had more difficulty with my back, some of the time. Particularly as some of the water would evaporate over a period of a year. This combined with the deteriorating flotation material, and getting my back hurt, led me to all this business about researching mattresses. So this is a rather complicated thing, buying the right mattrese, made a whole lot more complicated by the big S. brands and all the subterfuge that they indulge in, coupled with those folks who just want to sell something, and either convince themselves that one type of latex is better than another, or, are liars. In any event go to your Savvy Rest store and and try out there beds. Savvy Rest seems to be a good company and they do handle both Dunlop and Talalay, and they also have a 90 day exchange policy on layers, but no return policy. You have my best wishes, and good luck. This message was modified Oct 1, 2009 by eagle2
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electracat wrote: The steroid nasal sprays are safe, and meant to be used daily. Unfortunately they don't provide the same nasal congestion relief as Afrin and the other sprays, but, as Catlover said, these sprays are highly addictive. I can't even use them now for more than a day without getting rebound congestion. I think my new mattress setup made my congestion better, though--latex/pu foam has to be better than dustmite-infested spring mattresses! Electracat, I'm not so sure about that. That is, it depends on the person. I do agree though that if you have a spring mattress you should use those anti-dust mite covers. The only reason I don't is because as long as I"m regularly tweaking my mattress it would make it too hard to do that, having to take it in and out of one of those zippered anti-dust mite covers. But the thing about pu foam is that many people are also allergic to that, and also memory foam. I have been having a lot of allergy problems this past year and I think it might be because of the memory foam I'm using now. OR it could be that there's just too much dust in the bedroom. But I wonder because I gave the room a really thorough cleaning and it made NO difference in my level of allergies and I AM allergic to dust so theoretically the cleaning should have helped. And then there are of course those people who are allergic to latex. I am allergic to latex IF it is against my skin for hours. I bought a latex wrist guard for carpal tunnel once, and that thing gave me a case of eczema that had me itching for a week! But if I wear latex gloves for an hour or two or sleep with a latex topper it doesn't SEEM to bother me. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: Catlover: Savvy Rest looks like a good company, and I would not be afraid to purchase from them. But just keep in mind that FloBeds has the best exchange and return policy on the Internet, that I am aware. Good luck with your choice. Nothing against Flobeds, anyone here knows I'm a fan of theirs. But to be accurate, <a href="http://www.overnightmattress.com/mattress_guarantees.html">overnightmattress.com</a> has a better return policy: 120 night sleep trial, free shipping and no cost for shipping at all if you return it. However, also to be accurate, flobeds offers a number of exchanges of foam sections during your trial period (though you have to pay for shipping), whereas overnight mattress only allows one exchange OR refund. This message was modified Oct 2, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I've been lucky enough to be able to try both a Dunlop and a Talalay bed. The Dunlop is firmer. But that doesn't mean that the Talalay lacks proper support if you get the right ILD. Talalay definitely has a bouncier, springier feel, and the latex is "airier," but I found it was quite supportive, too. I too thought at first I was going to go Dunlop, but once I tried Talalay there's no going back. So you may find yourself surprised :) or you may just confirm your opinion that you want a Dunlop latex. LI does say on their website that Dunlop is firmer than Talalay. They recommend using it as a mattress core. Latex International asserts that a blended Talalay product is more durable than 100% natural. From their website: "By definition, latex is a rubber particle suspended in water. There are 2 types of latex; natural rubber latex and styrene butadiene rubber or man made latex. All latex is either a blend of the two or 100% natural latex. All mattress components and pillows from Latex International are 100% latex. Latex International uses a proprietary blend of natural and man made latex to provide the optimal balance of comfort and durability. Natural rubber latex is for durability. Natural inhibits tearing as it can be stretched like a rubber band. Man made latex helps in creating a product that is resistant to sagging or taking body impressions as it can be compressed over and over and will continue to provide the same feel experienced on the retail floor for years to come. Blended latex is more durable than 100% natural latex sleep products and are less likely to take a body impression over time. Wear and tear simulation testing shows blend superiority. 100% natural latex cores experience 5 to10% more mattress core height loss (i.e. body impressions) due to wear and tear than our Talalay and 2 to 3 times more loss (softening) due to repeated sitting and sleeping." Obviously Flobeds feels differently since they have decided to carry 100% natural Talalay latex. And they are a reputable company, so I think this is just a matter of personal preference. Two things sold me on the Talalay process: 1) trying out both the Dunlop and Talalay mattresses and feeling the difference between them - although I could tell the Dunlop was firmer, I did not feel it offered more or better support; and 2) watching the Flobeds video comparison of two pieces of wrapped latex they had on a shelf for five years. When they unwrap the five year old compressed Dunlop piece, it did not regain it's shape. When they unwrap the five year old Talalay piece, it immediately unfolded in perfect condition. http://www.flobeds.com/TalalayVsDunlop.htm Interestingly, while browsing on the LI site just now, I see that they also sell a Dunlop latex: "In 1997, Latex International entered into an agreement with Sapsa Bedding to be the exclusive distributor of continuous process (Unilatex™) latex cores in North America. This ensured a comprehensive latex product portfolio. Today, Latex International remains the only Talalay latex foam manufacturer in the Americas. Sapsa’s Unilatex™, made to our specifications and high standards, is the highest quality, most consistent Dunlop process product in the world. The product is a firmer, denser latex and is ideally used as a base core. We recommend 2 to 4” of LI’s Talatech® latex on top of the Sapsa material to optimize comfort, support, and pressure relief." This message was modified Oct 2, 2009 by KimberlyH
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| By the way, grats on your new Flobed! I've been checking every day to see what your experience has been and am looking forward to your future reports about your comfort and adjusting the layers to suit you. How is your wife liking the new bed? |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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KimberlyH wrote: I've been lucky enough to be able to try both a Dunlop and a Talalay bed. The Dunlop is firmer. But that doesn't mean that the Talalay lacks proper support if you get the right ILD. Talalay definitely has a bouncier, springier feel, and the latex is "airier," but I found it was quite supportive, too. I too thought at first I was going to go Dunlop, but once I tried Talalay there's no going back. So you may find yourself surprised :) or you may just confirm your opinion that you want a Dunlop latex. LI does say on their website that Dunlop is firmer than Talalay. They recommend using it as a mattress core. Latex International asserts that a blended Talalay product is more durable than 100% natural. From their website: "By definition, latex is a rubber particle suspended in water. There are 2 types of latex; natural rubber latex and styrene butadiene rubber or man made latex. All latex is either a blend of the two or 100% natural latex. All mattress components and pillows from Latex International are 100% latex. Latex International uses a proprietary blend of natural and man made latex to provide the optimal balance of comfort and durability. Natural rubber latex is for durability. Natural inhibits tearing as it can be stretched like a rubber band. Man made latex helps in creating a product that is resistant to sagging or taking body impressions as it can be compressed over and over and will continue to provide the same feel experienced on the retail floor for years to come. Blended latex is more durable than 100% natural latex sleep products and are less likely to take a body impression over time. Wear and tear simulation testing shows blend superiority. 100% natural latex cores experience 5 to10% more mattress core height loss (i.e. body impressions) due to wear and tear than our Talalay and 2 to 3 times more loss (softening) due to repeated sitting and sleeping." Obviously Flobeds feels differently since they have decided to carry 100% natural Talalay latex. And they are a reputable company, so I think this is just a matter of personal preference. Two things sold me on the Talalay process: 1) trying out both the Dunlop and Talalay mattresses and feeling the difference between them - although I could tell the Dunlop was firmer, I did not feel it offered more or better support; and 2) watching the Flobeds video comparison of two pieces of wrapped latex they had on a shelf for five years. When they unwrap the five year old compressed Dunlop piece, it did not regain it's shape. When they unwrap the five year old Talalay piece, it immediately unfolded in perfect condition. http://www.flobeds.com/TalalayVsDunlop.htm Interestingly, while browsing on the LI site just now, I see that they also sell a Dunlop latex: "In 1997, Latex International entered into an agreement with Sapsa Bedding to be the exclusive distributor of continuous process (Unilatex™) latex cores in North America. This ensured a comprehensive latex product portfolio. Today, Latex International remains the only Talalay latex foam manufacturer in the Americas. Sapsa’s Unilatex™, made to our specifications and high standards, is the highest quality, most consistent Dunlop process product in the world. The product is a firmer, denser latex and is ideally used as a base core. We recommend 2 to 4” of LI’s Talatech® latex on top of the Sapsa material to optimize comfort, support, and pressure relief." Kimberly, I think you're right about "Dunlop being firmer" does not equate with "Dunlop providing more support". I have never slept on Dunlop - and would love to try it some day - but the one time I laid on a Dunlop core the best way I can describe it is that it felt like laying on a rubber mat. Firm yes, but "supportive"?, I'm not so sure. That is, Does the Floor give "support"? To me, support means it allows your body to sink in where it needs to sink in. I'm not sure if Dunlop really does that, or if it's just plain FIRM (or hard)... But again I'm not that familar with Dunlop. Maybe in the more medium ILD's it does allow you to sink in enough and give the right support. My feeling was that it would be better for a core, but not a middle or top layer. I think what they are saying about 100% natural latex not lasting as long as a synthetic blend, may be somewhat true, based on the man who recently posted here who said he bought a natural latex mattress 12 years ago and now it's dipping. I also looked at a used natural latex mattress once and saw that it was dipping in the middle, and the person said it was only 5 years old, though certainly I cannot corroborate that. From most everything I've heard, even 100% natural latex should last 10 years, and really, in my opinion, if you can get 10 years out of a mattress, that's good enough. So to me Which lasts longer shouldn't be the criteria. It should be "Which FEELS best?" |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I know I said I wasn't going to post for several days until I have something new to report. But I had a couple thoughts that I thought I would pass along. I will just mention that I had another good nights sleep last night. Two things I’ve noticed after having slept on this bed for a full week. Number one, and possibly of interest to some, is the fact that I cannot feel any crack between the two split layer side’s of the bed. This was something that was discussed at length on this forum recently. This business of having a split mattress in a king-size bed. I just cannot feel any division. What I can feel is the transition from the softer side of my bed to the firmer side of my bed. It should be noted here that the FloBeds provides a convoluted two inch piece of Talalay that does not have a split in it and fits over the top of the other cores. This very well could contribute towards this "no split feeling." Another thing that I noticed, I enjoy the softer side of the bed when I first go to bed and try to get to sleep. But towards the final amount of time I spend in bed, let’s say the last hour or two, if I happen to wake up and I’m not ready to get up yet, transitioning to the firmer side feels good. My guess is that when we first go to bed, due to the rigors of the day, we are more tense and a softer surface feels better. But once we have been asleep for five or six hours, and are fully relaxed, then our body appreciates a firmer surface. Just a thought, don’t know if it has any validity or not. To address this business of who on the Internet has the best return policy and exchange policy, as far as I know FloBeds has the best of both in the sense that you have unlimited exchanges for 90 days, and a full refund of your money if you decide you do not like the bed within the 90 day time frame. The only cost to the purchaser is the cost of return shipping. And the prices that I am hearing from FloBeds vis-à-vis Savvy Rest is that FloBeds shipping costs or considerably less.For instance FloBeds is charging me $35 to return two cores from the middle part of the country to the West Coast. I know that Savvy Rest wanted $170, if my memory serves, for approximately the same scenario. I need to check with UPS and see what they would charge me as an individual for the same shipping. But I have been under the impression that FloBeds is passing along to their customers the same kind of rates that they as a company acquire from UPS. These natural latex cores are not small or light. My guesstimate is that you can figure that each 3 inch core weighs about 25 pounds. And this is for one half of a Cal King dimension piece of foam, since I get split layers. I believe that what is going on is that Savvy Rest charges shipping both ways, both from their factory to you, for the requested new cores, and from you back to the factory. FloBeds is not doing this. They pay for shipping to you and charge you the rate (that they can acquire from UPS) from you back to them. At least this is how I interpret it. So... of all the various companies that I investigated the simplest most straightforward and least expensive scenario is "habitat". Their prices are less expensive, there is no cost for shipping unless of course you don't like the bed within the six-month trial, and if you want your money back you pay them $75 for shipping it back to them. They make it simple because they severely limit your choices. They have three different beds, there is no exchanges, there are no other choices. You try it out for six months, if you like it, you keep it. If you don't like it you return the bed and pay the $75 return shipping cost. That's it. They claim that 80% of the people will like their bed as they configure it. I imagine it's a pretty big and heavy package. I can just imagine what a California King bed must look like. It's all of one piece, shrunk wrapped in a container. You take it out of the container,cut it free from its plastic wrappings, let it expand for about an hour, and you have your bed. Simple, straightforward,... and very limiting. If it had not been for the fact that I wanted more choices I believe I would have given them a try. In fact part of the reason that I am getting two more cores from FloBeds is to try out a theory. Habitat sells 3 mattresses as I just indicated. A 6 inch Dunlop core in a cover, that they sell as a mattress. This same six-inch Dunlop core with a 2 inch soft Talalay top all glued together in one piece, in a cover. They do the same thing for their third offering only it has a 3 inch soft Talalay topper all glued together in a cover. That's it, that's all they offer. My thought is that I will acquire a soft 3" Talalay core and place it on top of two extra firm Talalay cores. This should give me an approximation of what habitat offers in their best mattress. I am quite eager to give this configuration a trial run. I will be sure to let everyone know how it turns out. This message was modified Oct 2, 2009 by eagle2
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2nd time flobed
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I just joined this board tonight and wanted to let you know I am on our second flobed queen due to destruction from the military during moves our beloved bed was destroyed a year ago I did not hesitate to order another we bought our first bed while stationed in ct Jan 04 memory zone select visco and talay 11 inch high with the wool cover we also purchased the euro slat foundation with flexible beechwood slates very popular in europe according to the website its adjustable with blue rubber like inserts you can move around on the foundation its breaks down in pieces which is great for moving the foundation but moving the mattress is hard to do. My hubby broke one of the wood pieces on the euro slats by standing on it not the smartest move 200 pounds but the company was wonderful shipped out another at no cost to us they covered shipping as well we paid 2,246 for the bed at that time and I just replaced it again memory deluxe latex and memory foam mattress with 50.00 discount for second purchase august 09 for 1,908.00 that is including shipping on both of the listed prices we love our bed its been so comfortable and supportive its easy to clean or take apart you can ship them to the company for cleaning also the zippered covered which is great option as well I saw at costo yesterday a uv light including travel one to keep viruses and germs at bay think it was 69 dollars am going to purchase for when we travel to clean hotel beds hate germs easier to do that than risk kids or us getting sick five minutes of insurance. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Please, please use punctuation in your posts! Sounds like you have some good info to impart, but i honestly can't read it very well! I don't mean to be obnoxious--i just think others will have trouble as well. Thank you, and welcome to the forum! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Welcome NavyWife2 and I am happy that you enjoy your FloBeds and just got another one with the customer service at FloBeds being exceptional which is what I found out also. Eagle2, Please keep us updated on your FloBeds Latex Core Layers. I also found that when I first go to bed, I like a little more give on the bed and in the morning, I like the bed a little firmer but I still chose my bed as firm as I could with that little bit of cushion on top along with my heavenly latex pillow that I love so much. It took me 6 Overstock Natural Latex Pillows to find 2 that I love to be the right height for my small frame. The others I use as spare pillows and shams. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Lynn2006 wrote: Welcome NavyWife2 and I am happy that you enjoy your FloBeds and just got another one with the customer service at FloBeds being exceptional which is what I found out also. Eagle2, Please keep us updated on your FloBeds Latex Core Layers. I also found that when I first go to bed, I like a little more give on the bed and in the morning, I like the bed a little firmer but I still chose my bed as firm as I could with that little bit of cushion on top along with my heavenly latex pillow that I love so much. It took me 6 Overstock Natural Latex Pillows to find 2 that I love to be the right height for my small frame. The others I use as spare pillows and shams. Lynn: Everything is going along swimmingly, I am enjoying my FloBeds very much. As I adjust to the bed more and more, I am beginning to think that the softer cores that I have ordered are going to be unnecessary. But since they are going to arrive this Thursday I am certainly going to try out the soft core over two extra firm cores. I got this idea from reading about the habitat bed, and I am determined to give it a shot. Although I don't expect to like it all that much. I am basing this opinion on what I am experiencing now. As you may recall I have one side that is firm over extra firm over extra firm, and the other side is medium over firm over extra firm. Like you,when I my first go to bed I like the bed a bit softer. Then after I have relaxed and been asleep for awhile, particularly two or three hours before I'm ready to get up, I will roll over on the firmest side and it feels just about right. I'm beginning to think that what FloBeds advised for me, being 6'2" and 210 pounds, the firm over extra firm over firm configuration, may very well prove to be the ideal arrangement. I am looking forward to finding out. I purchased two king-size super fluffy Talalay pillows in my FloBeds deal. They were just too filled with fluff and too heavy for me. I like a smaller and much less full pillow feel. So at first I took out about half the filling in one of the pillows, the other one I left in the plastic container it came in. This still didn't feel right as the king-size case allowed a lot of the filling to fall to the bottom. So I took about three quarters of this reduced material in this King-size case and put it in a regular size case that I had on hand. It seems to be about right. So as you stated, finding the right pillow can be almost as big a problem as trying to find the right mattress. In any event, my bed is sleeping well, I am quite happy with FloBeds and their service, and I'm looking forward to this Thursday and trying out some new configurations. I will be sure to report back with a full description of my experiences. This message was modified Oct 6, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I'm new here & have really appreciated all of the info on this site. We are looking into purchasing a latex mattress in the very near future. My husband has MS and sleeps very uncomfortably on our regular mattress. As for myself, I gave up trying to sleep in a regular bed at least a year ago. Instead, I sleep on our couch which is comfortable as far as no pressure points for me. We went to a store yesterday that sells the Land & Sky mattresses which are Dunlop latex. Overall the 3 models in the store were nice quality with the latex layers individually covered which seems like a good idea. However I am looking for a more cushiony feel, and I found them to be too firm for me, almost as if they were pushing back too much. We did try one combination of medium, soft, soft, that was okay for me, but not great. My husband found it too soft though. He is 6 ft, and 245 lbs. I am 5'5" and 145 lbs. We are both side sleepers most of the time. I plan on contacting FloBeds soon to check out their latex. Seems like they have a good product & customer service. From what I have gathered on this forum it seems like the Talaylay is not as dense and firm as the Dunlop. I'm hoping that will work better for us as I was not really sold on the Dunlop, but I love the idea of the latex. It's still a scary thing to buy a bed without trying it out first. I look forward to hearing how your new FloBeds is working out for you. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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diamonwater wrote: I'm new here & have really appreciated all of the info on this site. We are looking into purchasing a latex mattress in the very near future. My husband has MS and sleeps very uncomfortably on our regular mattress. As for myself, I gave up trying to sleep in a regular bed at least a year ago. Instead, I sleep on our couch which is comfortable as far as no pressure points for me. We went to a store yesterday that sells the Land & Sky mattresses which are Dunlop latex. Overall the 3 models in the store were nice quality with the latex layers individually covered which seems like a good idea. However I am looking for a more cushiony feel, and I found them to be too firm for me, almost as if they were pushing back too much. We did try one combination of medium, soft, soft, that was okay for me, but not great. My husband found it too soft though. He is 6 ft, and 245 lbs. I am 5'5" and 145 lbs. We are both side sleepers most of the time. I plan on contacting FloBeds soon to check out their latex. Seems like they have a good product & customer service. From what I have gathered on this forum it seems like the Talaylay is not as dense and firm as the Dunlop. I'm hoping that will work better for us as I was not really sold on the Dunlop, but I love the idea of the latex. It's still a scary thing to buy a bed without trying it out first. I look forward to hearing how your new FloBeds is working out for you. Greetings Diamonwater: Welcome aboard our little corner of the Internet. Since I just purchased a FloBeds, and am so far quite satisfied, I am quite high on their product. I understand your reluctance to spend this much money on the Internet for a product that is not only unseen, but is not felt, and most important of all, cannot be slept on until you receive it at your home. But this is one of the reasons that I am impressed with FloBeds. As far as I know FloBeds has the best exchange and return policy for latex mattresses on the Internet. You have 90 days for unlimited exchanges. You also have 90 days to try out the mattress and if you don't like it you can return it for a full refund, no restocking fees, only the cost for return shipping. Another feature that I like about FloBeds is that on their exchange of layers policy they pay shipping to you and you only have to pay, what I am assuming, is their costs for return shipping. For instance I have two cores that should be arriving tomorrow. When I talked to the son of the owner, Dewey Turner, and placed my order he charged me $35 for return shipping, the return shipping labels will be coming with the new layers. They normally also charge a deposit on the cores you're ordering, which gets refunded when you return the cores you don't need.They are very good about this and very helpful. since this is a father-son company, and the father, David, has been in business for 30 years and is something of an inventor himself, they do everything they can to make sure you're satisfied. They have an excellent BBB rating. So I highly recommend them (and no, I do not work for them or receive any commission from them) because I believe they are a throwback to the way business used to be done in this country, many, many, years ago. You need to go to their website and check out their pricing and use their, "Firmness Advisor" I am finding that it is quite accurate. http://flobeds.com/ You of course can email them or call them personally. Usually one or the other will answer the phone. You get to deal directly with the people who own the business. I understand your confusion about Dunlop versus Talalay. I went through the same experience that you're going through now. I was convinced in my mind, from all my reading and getting samples from two different companies, that Dunlop was going to prove the better material as a base. But I am finding that by using the extra firm Talalay that it is very supportive. And that's the beauty of having a four layer mattress. Their top layer is a single 2" sheet of soft convoluted Talalay.This comes on every mattress, and is not adjustable, as far as I know. But the other three layers can be any mix of, soft, medium, firm,or extra firm. If that isn't firm enough for you they can even sell you some blended Talalay that is even more firm. But I can not imagine why anybody would need that. The one side of my bed that I currently have structured ia a firm top piece, over and extra firm middle piece, over and extra firm bottom piece, this is quite firm it seems to me.I'm going to try some different configurations as soon as my new layers come in tomorrow. There are other good niche market manufacturers of mattresses besides FloBeds. Savvy Rest, SleepEZ, and Habitat, which is an entirely different approach to the same latex mattress idea (they have an excellent website with some very instructional videos by the way) are a few of the competitors. But none of them have the same degree of flexibility and low cost in the exchange and return policy area. I'm sure there are other companys besides these four. Many folks here like to do their own thing and purchase individual foam pieces from various companies and build her own mattress. This does not appeal to me as I just want a finished product with a company standing behind it that will take care of me for the reasons that I'm trying to address in this post. If you have any additional questions please feel free to ask and any number of people will try and answer them for you. Good luck in your quest. I know how frustrating and frightening it can be to spend $2-$3000 ( for a Cal King which is what I bought) sight unseen. I forgot to mention that my California King mattress is what is referred to as a split mattress. In other words one side of the bed that the one partner sleeps on, can be a different configuration than the side of the bed that the other partner sleeps on. So basically in my bed there or seven different pieces of latex. The top piece is a full California King size 2" piece of latex. The other six pieces are divided 3" pieces of latex that can be any firmness you wish. I hope this makes sense, and that I have clarified any confusion I may have created. This message was modified Oct 7, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thank you eagle2 for the nice welcome & clear descriptions you gave. I very much appreciate it. This mattress shopping is something we have put off for too long, probably because of our different ideas about what is comfortable. When we were mattress shopping a few days ago we did try out a new memory foam mattress that was made partially from bio fuels. It was so comfortable and about half the price of the latex, but again I am concerned about it breaking down prematurely expecially with my husbands height & weight. We both want something more for the long haul and not just a year or two before it becomes another problem bed. It sure was tempting though. FloBeds sounds like it would meet both of our comfort requirements and give us a lot of options for change, if needed. Will post back when we make our decision and share our experience. Hope your new Flobed is still working out for you. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle2, I forgot to ask what kind of foundation you have with your latex? I was looking at the european one on the Flobeds site. In theory it seems good, but I wonder about it making noise when you shift positions at night. That could be really irritating. Also I hate to spend extra for something that may not be necessary. Maybe a regular slat foundation would be just fine. Does anyone have experience with the european one? Thanks. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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diamonwater wrote: Eagle2, I forgot to ask what kind of foundation you have with your latex? I was looking at the european one on the Flobeds site. In theory it seems good, but I wonder about it making noise when you shift positions at night. That could be really irritating. Also I hate to spend extra for something that may not be necessary. Maybe a regular slat foundation would be just fine. Does anyone have experience with the european one? Thanks. I have been told so many differing things, regarding foundation for latex mattress, that it is hard to make any kind of recommendation. In my purchase of the latex bed we included a small slat riser that I can place on top of my old water bed foundation. Many people have told me, both on this forum, and other manufacturers of latex mattresses, that a slat foundation for ventilation is not necessary if you have a platform bed or mattress box such as I have from my old water bed, unless you live in a very humid area and your bedroom is not subject to air-conditioning and proper ventilation, then you need a slat type foundation. Unfortunately I cannot help you regarding the European foundation. It looks like a good idea and might prove quite beneficial. But it certainly isn't a necessary item for your latex mattress. Any of the slat foundations that FloBeds sells should work quite well. I checked the bottom of my old waterbed mattress when I removed it from the bedroom. After 10 years of usage I could find no mildew on the bottom of the mattress or the liner. Possibly some of the forum members who have a greater degree of experience in this area may be able to help you, beyond my limited information. This message was modified Oct 8, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I don't have the flobeds european slat foundation, but for a long time I used another type of Europena slat foundation with a completely different mattress set-up. Although it does have flexible beechwood slats, It's not the same design at all as flobeds so can't really be compared directly (I think the type of slat design I have are probably springier than flobeds. Anyway, ) I used it with a very firm thin piece of dunlap and wool pads, and liked it a lot. However, the bed was way too firm for my current needs. Ideally I would have liked to have kept using my European slats, but found it to be too springy with the 4-layer all natural talalay mattress (top layer being a thin piece of "egg-crate"). If I were using it with one less core and/or much firmer cores (I need a much softer bed than I used to), it might have worked. However, we already transfered the old bed set-up to the guest room and built a slat foundation (1 by 4's spaced 1 1/2 to 2" apart), and that feels more "solid" which I prefer. I'm still deciding on my bed and working on the layers. Will try to get back to this board and share more when the process is complete. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| I'm using a traditional box foundation with my latex mattress. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Today I received the other core samples from FloBeds. At my request, a week ago today, I ask FloBeds for another medium core and a soft core. I wanted to check out a theory I had based on what Habitat website had said about their #2 and #3 better quality beds. They use a six-inch medium Dunlop core with a 2” Talalay soft topper on the number 2 bed, and a 3 inch Talalay soft topper on the number 3 bed with the same six-inch medium Dunlop core. They claim that 80% of there customers prefer this arrangement. So I wanted to try a 3” soft Talalay core on top of my extra firm, over extra firm, right side of the bed. I then moved the firm core from the right side of the bed to the left side of the bed. On the left side I now have a firm core, over a firm core, over and extra firm core. This is the arrangement that FloBeds firmness calculator suggested as being the best for a person of my size. We shall see. The soft core is rated at 22 ILD.The medium cores are 28 ILD. The firm cores are rated at 32 ILD. The extra firm cores are rated at 36 ILD. All of Latex Internationals cores of botanically grown Talalay latex are right in the middle of the ILD range for the particular soft, medium, firm, extra firm ratings. I am looking forward to the next several nights sleep to see how these new arrangements work out. I will make a post letting you know. This message was modified Oct 8, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I had another good nights sleep last night. To just reiterate, I have on the right side of my bed a soft layer, over and extra firm layer, over and extra firm layer. On the left side of my bed I have a firm layer, over a firm layer, over and extra firm layer. So the left side is more firm than the right side. And it is becoming increasingly difficult to make a determination as to which side I prefer as my body keeps adapting,(as it should) and therefore confusing my ability to make any kind of a determination. The one thing I’m experiencing that is consistent. We change how we feel regarding the sleep surface through the night. When I first go to bed one side or the other will feel better depending on how the day has gone. Once I get to sleep and have rested, my preference for firmer, or softer, may change. But even that is not consistent. Then towards morning, let’s say the last two or three hours that you spend in bed, it seems as if I change again as far as a preference goes for softer or firmer. It just is not some kind of simple mathematical scientific thing. It’s all tied up with physiology and psychology, and God only knows what else. And I am sure, that others, would have varying responses compared to mine, utilizing the very same mattress configuration as it currently exists. It’s understandable why Consumers Reports does not want to test mattresses anymore. Mattresses have become so expensive, and the mattress industry so loves to hide what they actually put into their mattress, to such an extent, that if they were exposed and criticized, Consumer Reports could very well get sued. Also, if their results did not match what their readers feel is the truth for them, they would have a lot of mad readers. So the frustration that we all feel trying to find the best mattress has a lot of foundation in fact. It’s no wonder we get so frustrated. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| What I want to know is, where is your wife in all this when you start on one side and decide you want to switch to the other side later in the night :p |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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KimberlyH wrote: What I want to know is, where is your wife in all this when you start on one side and decide you want to switch to the other side later in the night :p My lovely wife has her own bedroom and a queen size bed. We have found that this makes life much less complicated. Our doors are always open, so there's no problem from that standpoint either. This message was modified Oct 10, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| eagle2, which layers are you sleeping on/most happy with now, by the way? I think I remember you saying you were ordering a medium as well as a soft, to try with your firm and extra-firm configuration. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: eagle2, which layers are you sleeping on/most happy with now, by the way? I think I remember you saying you were ordering a medium as well as a soft, to try with your firm and extra-firm configuration. Linda: I have been reluctant to post my thoughts on each and every day, as I feel it becomes rather redundant. I had planned to wait until I had made some kind of determination regarding the two new layers before I posted my thoughts. But since you ask I will post a portion of a diary that I am keeping. "Sunday, October 11, 2009 I awoke this morning feeling quite refreshed. Again, the right side of my bed is soft, over extra firm, over extra firm. The left side of my bed ( looking from the foot to the head) is firm, over firm, over extra firm. It seems to me when I first get up that I am more alert and flexible than I used to be when I first got out of my waterbed. This is just a feeling I have, at this point in time, and will only know for sure as I have spent more time sleeping in this bed. I feel there is a definite advantage with having one side firmer than the other. I am probably going to try changing the soft layer, for a medium layer on the right side of the bed. I don’t know how long I’ll wait to do this because I want to give the current configuration plenty of time." Keep this thought in mind. All FloBeds come with a 2 inch top piece of soft Talalay convoluted latex. So with the soft three-inch piece of Talalay on the right side of my bed I'm actually sleeping on 5 inches of soft Talalay, over extra firm, over extra firm. So the right side of the bed definitely has a softer feel. After I have had sufficient experience with this configuration, I will exchange the soft three-inch top piece for a medium three-inch piece. The problem with all of this flexibility is the fact that we humans go through quite a psychological process with any new experience. We first must build a small database to adapt to the new experience. Once we get used to this new experience our old experiences tend to fade somewhat. This can make the process of determining what is the best firmness configuration of this type of latex mattress more difficult. If you want proof of this, read some of Jimsocal's frustrations with trying to find the proper bed. He went through the FloBeds experience, and many layers of FBM in trying to find that exact satisfactory mattress configuration. He has not posted in some time but my assumption is he is still working at it. This message was modified Oct 11, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I will make this report short. Still sleeping on right side of bed, soft/extra firm/extra firm. Left side of bed, firm/firm/extra firm. This configuration seems to be working out quite well. I will probably try out my medium layer in place of the soft layer when I change my sheets out this Friday. Currently the most descriptive explanation I can give regarding my FloBeds experience with this current configuration is to say that I look forward to going to bed, and when it's time to get up I am reluctant to do so. It's that comfortable. I will just make this final reminder note. All FloBeds come with a convoluted soft piece of Talalay latex covering the entire bed as a top layer. So, on the right side of my bed I am actually sleeping on 5 inches of soft Talalay. I put this soft piece there as a test of what the Habitat website says is their most luxurious mattress. Namely 3 inches of soft Talalay over a 6 inch medium firm core of Dunlop. So my configuration has two more inches of soft Talalay than does the Habitat best mattress. This message was modified Oct 14, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, Have you been able to keep all of your layers when you order an extra layer to try out? Or do you have to return one layer to get another one? I'm expecting my Flobed tomorrow and am wondering how that aspect works. |
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KimberlyH wrote: Eagle, Have you been able to keep all of your layers when you order an extra layer to try out? Or do you have to return one layer to get another one? I'm expecting my Flobed tomorrow and am wondering how that aspect works. Hi Kimberly: The way it works Kimberly is, you can do the exchange request through their website or telephone them to place your order. I telephoned and talk to Dewey. They require a deposit for the cores that you wish to try out. They will charge you this deposit and the cost of return shipping to your credit card and ship the cores to you. You can then keep the cores as long as you wish (within the 90 day time frame that was established when you first purchased the mattress) until you are done testing and have decided on your preference. Then you package up the cores you don't want, apply the shipping label that is supplied with the new cores that had been shipped to you, and shipped them back to them. Once they receive them they will then credit your account for the deposit. I do not know if there is any limit on the number of cores that you can order at one time, and keep in your possession for the 90 days, but normally I would think that the number of cores that a person would want at any one time would probably be limited to three. I ordered two, a soft layer, and a medium layer. I'm going to take my time about making a decision so that I don't fool myself and wind up sending something back that I wish I had not. Therein lies the rub. I am finding that I am actually liking all of the different configurations, to one degree or another, so far. It's just a matter of how you're feeling when you're laying on that particular configuration. So I would advise that you not get too many layers involved in the mix. It can become quite confusing. This is the reason that Habitat decided to make three different configurations available and give you six months to try out anyone configuration without any exchanges. Any time after 30 days, if you decide you do not like it during the next 5 months, you can return the mattress for $75 shipping charge and get your money back. But there are no exchanges! To each his own. But I prefer FloBeds business model,it is so much more flexible. This message was modified Oct 14, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Ok, that sounds reasonable. I'm a little worried because based on David/Dewey's recommendations, and their interactive firmness evaluator, I ended up ordering a firm/xfirm/xfirm. I'm a little worried about that because in general I don't like firm mattresses, and I have hip and back pain as a side sleeper. I'm worried about these firmnesses not giving enough pressure relief. OTOH, until the new mattress comes, we're sleeping on my daughter's cheap Simmons plush mattress, which after three years has a big sinkhole in it, is really soft, and is absolutely killing my back. When did this all become so difficult! The last time I bought a mattress, we walked into a discount mattress store, lay on a few mattresses, picked out a Simmons mattress that was plush/firm all at once and had wool filler, not this foam stuff, had it delivered, and it was a delightful mattress for years and years. Now I'm afraid to make a decision on anything! |
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KimberlyH wrote: Ok, that sounds reasonable. I'm a little worried because based on David/Dewey's recommendations, and their interactive firmness evaluator, I ended up ordering a firm/xfirm/xfirm. I'm a little worried about that because in general I don't like firm mattresses, and I have hip and back pain as a side sleeper. I'm worried about these firmnesses not giving enough pressure relief. OTOH, until the new mattress comes, we're sleeping on my daughter's cheap Simmons plush mattress, which after three years has a big sinkhole in it, is really soft, and is absolutely killing my back. When did this all become so difficult! The last time I bought a mattress, we walked into a discount mattress store, lay on a few mattresses, picked out a Simmons mattress that was plush/firm all at once and had wool filler, not this foam stuff, had it delivered, and it was a delightful mattress for years and years. Now I'm afraid to make a decision on anything! Kimberly, I hear your pain. I'm not sure when it became difficult, as my last bed was a waterbed that lasted for 10 years. But it certainly seems to me that when you walk into a mattress store today, and are willing to spend between 1000 and $3000 for a mattress that it ought at last at least 10 years. As far as the firmness advisor goes, I'm sure it has something to do with your husband's weight as well as yours. I'm assuming this is a king size mattress? That your husband is larger than you are? Did you order the bed in two different firmness levels, from side one side two? Hopefully you did and this will allow you to switch some layers around to get a different feel. I have also come to believe, based on some further reading, that the foundation that you put the mattress on can make quite a difference in their perceived softness or firmness of the mattress. Did you read the thread here, http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/fbm-foam-latex-1-year-update/6943-0-1.html this thread, though it has received few respondents, talks about the foundation that he is using. I made the only response to his post, and it might prove interesting to you regarding this foundation business. Initially I slept on a firm/extra firm/extra firm. When I first laid down on it it felt very firm indeed. It took at least one night and possibly to before it began to feel okay. One thing that helped was that the other side of my bed was medium/firm/extra firm. And I sleeped on that side if the other side was not comfortable enough. But the longer I laid on it the more comfortable it became.I am currently trying out a soft layer over both of the extra firm layers. The other side of my bed is firm/firm/extra firm. Both sides feel comfortable, which side feels most comfortable depends on how I'm feeling. I roll back and forth two or three times a night trying them out. Keep in mind, that all FloBeds come with a 2 inch piece of convoluted soft Talalay glued down the middle so that you have one continuous piece. So as I indicated earlier today, one side of my bed currently has 5 inches of soft Talalay over the two extra firm layers. I find it it sleeps quite well. Come this Friday I will exchange the soft layer for a medium layer and see how that sleeps. One thing I must caution you on again, I know I have stated this before, do not accept your body's initial impressions of what is to firm or too soft. Give it a couple of nights sleep. Do your best to not allow your initial feelings to stampede you into thinking something is either to firm are too soft. You really need to have two or three nights, at least, of sleep before you come to any kind of a conclusion. And then believe me, you can change your mind in another week or two. At least that has been my experience, so far. It would be wonderful if we could lay down on a mattress and within 30 minutes know exactly what is just right for a good nights sleep for the indefinite future. I have come to believe, that except for that very rare individual, it is impossible! This message was modified Oct 14, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Kimberly, I ordered my Vzone with xfirm and firm (halves) as the core and 1 firm half and 1 medium half vzone layer. So, I will have many permuations to work with (probably too many). 2 xfirm bases, 2 firm bases, or a combination of the 2. With the 2 Vzones, I will also be able to try soft, medium or firm under the hips and shoulders. So, I am hoping that I can find the right combination from what I get initially without doing any exchanges. Then I will decide what to exchange, if I want to keep both sides of the mattress identical. I may want to keep some flexibility to change in the future, so I may not keep identically sides. The downside is that I may end up wearing out the configation I like better (if I end up not wanting to use one of the sides). I guess I will figure that out later |
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I did read that post about the foundation. Actually, I did not order a slat foundation from Flobeds. I am not a fan of slat foundations, and I didn't like what I saw on the Flobeds website. I just purchased a regular low profile mattress foundation to put my flobed on. In fact. . . it's the low-profile Triton foundation for the Simmons Natural Care latex mattress. I honestly don't think the type of foundation makes much difference as long as it is sturdy enough to support the mattress and allows sufficient air flow. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Re: Flo beds layer exchange: The sheet that comes with an exchange layer asks that you try it out for a few nights to see what you prefer, and that you return whichever one you don't want within 2 weeks. I know Flobeds is quite accommodating and willing to work with their customers, so I imagine they are flexible on this, but I wanted to mention that this is written on the instructions one receives. |
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Exchanging & the ability to return are great sales points, but now I'm wondering what dealers do with all the used latex layers that have been returned/exchanged. By state law, Savvy Rest (Virginia) said they cannot resell, so they shred the latex & make other items - like dog beds. But I have no idea what FloBeds & SleepEZ do with returned layers...each state has different rules/laws concerning this. During my research, I do recall that one site that said that while the original layers are brand new, any future exchange layers might not be, so you could get a previously swapped (used) layer...They did say that they check each layer, but that just sounds unsanitary to me. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: Re: Flo beds layer exchange: The sheet that comes with an exchange layer asks that you try it out for a few nights to see what you prefer, and that you return whichever one you don't want within 2 weeks. I know Flobeds is quite accommodating and willing to work with their customers, so I imagine they are flexible on this, but I wanted to mention that this is written on the instructions one receives. Linda thank you for the heads up. I had not seen this instruction for the two-week time frame. However it does make sense. I will have to watch the calendar on the two layers that I requested for sampling. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| It does say on the Flobeds website that any exchange layers you get may have come from a previous customer exchange . . . |
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KimberlyH wrote: It does say on the Flobeds website that any exchange layers you get may have come from a previous customer exchange . . . Has anyone had any issues with receiving previously used layers from Flobeds? |
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KimberlyH wrote: It does say on the Flobeds website that any exchange layers you get may have come from a previous customer exchange . . . Kimberly: I think the operative word here is... "may". It is my guess, based on the limited conversations I had about this subject with FloBeds, that if a exchange layer comes back with any kind of damage, that they either cut it up for samples, or sell it as used merchandise at a significantly reduced price. I do know that they inspect incoming layers thoroughly,Dewey told me that they not only visually inspect the layers, but run a vacuum sweeper over them, and check them with some kind of a light that shows up any kind of unacceptable material. They do not send out any used layer that has anything visually wrong with it. If a layer comes back soiled I'm sure that they just dispose of it. They have a great many people who want to buy their mattresses at a reduced price. If any of their layers that are returned do not meet their stringent requirements for cleanliness, they sell them discounted to these folks. This is what I was told by Dewey Turner, and I believe him. I was also told that not every exchange layer is a used layer that get sent to the customer. It all depends on the availability of that particular firmness. They only use the used layers for exchanges, if first of all there are any available, and if they are the proper firmness ILD. They only send these layers when a new layer in the proper ILD is not available. A lot of it depends on the orders in-house and requirements for specific ILD's. They are usually running behind about a week on shipping of new mattresses. So many things factor in to these shipping requirements. I was told that they usually don't have that many used layers available. First of all, most customers just do not send in a lot of exchanges. And rather than have used layers stacking up, they will sell them at a reduced price to some of the local population. I was told they actually have a waiting list for these used mattresses. My used layer was more pristine than the original layers that I received in my mattress. This message was modified Oct 15, 2009 by eagle2
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spelunk wrote: Has anyone had any issues with receiving previously used layers from Flobeds? Spelunk: I have received two layers from FloBeds on an exchange basis. I have not seen anything wrong with them. In fact they look more pristine than some of the original layers that came with the bed. And I have been told that all beds get only brand-new unused layers. One point I would like to make about this subject, as I have just purchased a new FloBeds and I have thought on the subject a great deal. Other than a layer that had been soiled, in which case FloBeds I am sure would dispose of it, I would think there is very little damage that can occur to a layer. Here is my thinking on the subject.The first layer to come into contact with the sleeper is of course the mattress cover, which as you may recall is a batting of about 1 inch thick wool. The next layer that would most likely receive any damage would be the top layer of latex. This is the convoluted 2 inch soft Talalay topper that all FloBeds have. The next layer that would received any kind of perspiration or other bodily fluids, would be the top three-inch support layer. As you go progressively deeper into the bed the likelihood of any kind of substance migrating this far seems to me to be highly unlikely. My guess is, and granted it is purely a guess and I'm not about to test my theory, is that if you were to take a pint of water and pour it directly onto the mattress cover that the likelihood that it could penetrate even to the first three-inch layer is unlikely. People can become very exercised about a subject like this. But given the kind of customer service that I have received from FloBeds, given the fact that they have a BBB rating that is not only excellent, but has remained so for well over seven years(no complaints of any kind for over seven years), and the character of the people that I'm dealing with at FloBeds, precludes from my mind the thought that any unacceptable layers of latex will be reaching my home. You of course may feel differently about this, which of course is your right. But think on this. Any company that allows exchanges of layers of latex, I am sure, deals with this situation in a similar manner. FloBeds deals with it in an honest and straightforward manner. I'm guessing that not all companies will do this. Savvy Rest has been mentioned as a supplier of latex beds. And it is my understanding that Virginia law does not allow any bedding material to be recycled. So any layers that they receive back must be disposed of and not reused as beds. This is one reason that they charge $170 freight for any return layers. And it would be my considered opinion, that this is the principle reason that they do not allow any returns for a full refund without any restocking fees that FloBeds allows. With Savvy Rest, once you buy it, you own it. Now don't get me wrong, this is not a knock against Savvy Rest. I believe they are a good company selling a good product. They just have a different business model due to Virginia law. This message was modified Oct 15, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: Re: Flo beds layer exchange: The sheet that comes with an exchange layer asks that you try it out for a few nights to see what you prefer, and that you return whichever one you don't want within 2 weeks. I know Flobeds is quite accommodating and willing to work with their customers, so I imagine they are flexible on this, but I wanted to mention that this is written on the instructions one receives. Linda: I became concerned about the validity of your two weeks for exchange time limitation, as I currently have two layers that I'm trying out on FloBeds exchange policy. And I've already had it for one week so I wanted to make sure of this timeframe so I called FloBeds and talk to Dewey. He assures me that FloBeds will allow you the full timeframe of 90 days to test out your mattress any way that suits you. They just want you to be perfectly satisfied in your own mind that you have the proper firmness configuration. So let's say you are into your 90 day time frame by 30 days and you ordered an exchange of a layer or two to try out. You would still have 60 days left to make a determination on what configuration was the most suitable for you. So I don't know where you got two weeks from, but according to Dewey Turner that is incorrect. Maybe they have something left on their website from sometime in the past and are not aware of it. If you can find it, please post it,as I'm sure they would appreciate knowing where it's at. |
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Hi Eagle, Perhaps her information came from here: http://www.flobeds.com/pdf/coreexchange.pdf This is the pdf file with instructions for exchanging cores. Very last sentence on the page: "Please return within 10 days of receipt of cores." What concerns me more is this statement on their website: "The latex you receive may have fractures or be uneven and may have been repaired with nontoxic glue. These will not affect the ability to provide your body with superior support. Latex may be gently washed with soap and water." Were any of your latex cores . . . fractured . . .uneven . . . . repaired with glue? This message was modified Oct 15, 2009 by KimberlyH
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KimberlyH wrote: Hi Eagle, Perhaps her information came from here: http://www.flobeds.com/pdf/coreexchange.pdf This is the pdf file with instructions for exchanging cores. Very last sentence on the page: "Please return within 10 days of receipt of cores." What concerns me more is this statement on their website: "The latex you receive may have fractures or be uneven and may have been repaired with nontoxic glue. These will not affect the ability to provide your body with superior support. Latex may be gently washed with soap and water." Were any of your latex cores . . . fractured . . .uneven . . . . repaired with glue? Kimberly: In talking with Dewey today about the return time frame, I was told that this was an old publication, that they had not had a chance to redo. Their policy has been, for some time, to allow the customer whatever time frame they need within the 90 day exchange policy, to find the proper configuration to make them happy. As far as the statement that you have copied from their website stating that the hundred percent botanically grown latex having imperfections is pretty standard on all of the websites selling 100% natural botanically grown latex. They are not perfect. Yes my layers had a few imperfections. But nothing that I found unacceptable. From what I have read on the various websites if you want pristine looking latex you're more likely to get it with a blended product. By controlling the manufacturing process with a blend of petrochemical agents they can have a much greater chance to produce a pristine looking pieces of latex. I understand everyone's apprehension regarding these kinds of issues that have been addressed in the last few posts in this thread. But I think we should keep in mind that we are privy to the exact contents of our mattresses. This certainly cannot be said for those companies manufacturing latex beds that are sealed inside of a cover. We know exactly what is in our beds. The kinds of imperfections that were in my layers of latex in no way affected how the layer function as a mattress. I am no different from anyone else. It would've been nice when I opened up the plastic wrapping if every piece of latex had been pristine, without any imperfections whatsoever. But you have to ask yourself this. If Latex International were to cull out every piece of latex that they manufactured that had the slightest imperfection, then what would it cost FloBeds, or Savvy Rest, or SleepEZ. They would then have to pass that cost on to us. They would then price themselves out of the market, with the big S. brands, who hide all of their mattresses contents inside of a sealed mattress cover. When it comes to Sealy, Stearns and Foster, Simmons, Serta, and all the others, the only idea you have about what you are actually purchasing is what they want to tell you. Quite frankly, I will take the few imperfections that I saw in the layers that were sent to me by FloBeds. My mattresses is sleeping quite well. I just changed the soft layer for a medium layer today. I will see how this sleeps and report back in this thread. This message was modified Oct 15, 2009 by eagle2
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Eagle, Yes, I understand what you're saying. Well I'm expecting mine today so we'll see! I'll be eagerly awaiting your report of how the medium layer feels when compared to the soft. |
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KimberlyH wrote: Eagle, Yes, I understand what you're saying. Well I'm expecting mine today so we'll see! I'll be eagerly awaiting your report of how the medium layer feels when compared to the soft. Kimberly: Yes, I was wondering if you had received your bed yet. It is now 6:30 PM central time and if you were living in my neck of the woods you would have it by now as UPS has usually delivered by this time. You must be living on the West Coast, therefore you are two hours behind me. And it is only 4:30 PM there. I believe you are going to really enjoy your FloBeds. Take your time putting it together, hopefully you're going to have your husband there to help you. These pieces are not only somewhat heavy, but they are awkward. Be careful how you handle them, as they can tear. I have not torn any of mine, but I can see how it could easily happen. Like I stated somewhere else, picking each piece up as a rolled, or folded piece( you fold it like you would a piece of paper that you're going to stick in an envelope) and pick it up as much as you can with your hands and forearms, cradling the material. When you go to place it in the mattress cover use a kind of flipping waving kind of action and don't try to do too much at once. Again, be careful how you grip it. Don't be too forceful. Take your time. I believe I've said enough. Good luck! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| My Flobed shipment did arrive today! I opened the three boxes to verify all the contents were there and what we ordered. Unfortunately, I had a new foundation delivered yesterday and it came damaged. Sooo . . . . I refused delivery and I'm waiting for them to deliver a new foundation this evening. Can't put the bed together till the foundation arrives. I'm looking forward to it. |
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KimberlyH wrote: My Flobed shipment did arrive today! I opened the three boxes to verify all the contents were there and what we ordered. Unfortunately, I had a new foundation delivered yesterday and it came damaged. Sooo . . . . I refused delivery and I'm waiting for them to deliver a new foundation this evening. Can't put the bed together till the foundation arrives. I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully the new foundation will arrive soon and in good shape, and you'll have a good nights sleep. Give us an update post at your earliest convenience. |
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Another night, another good nights sleep! Patty and I went ahead last night and changed out the one top layer of soft Talalay on the right side of the bed. I then installed the medium layer. There is definitely a difference when sleeping on medium rather than soft. The soft layer has an ILD of 22, the medium layer has an ILD of 28. So, if my calculations are correct, that is an increase in firmness of approximately 27%. Not an insignificant amount, and I could definitely feel it. It is interesting the increase in ILD between the soft layer and the medium layer is considerably more than the other firmnesses. For instance the percent difference between a medium piece at 28 ILD and a firm peace at 32 ILD is only approximately 15%. The difference between firm and extra firm (32 to 36 ILD) is approximately 13% increase in firmness. So the most significant increase in firmness is between the soft layer and the medium layer. If there are some folks out there that are much better at math than this poor student, please correct my calculations, if need be. I think I’m going to like this configuration, of course only one night is totally inadequate to draw any concrete conclusions. So to reiterate. The right side of the bed is currently configured like this. Top layer medium, middle layer extra firm, bottom layer extra firm. Left side of the bed, firm/firm/extra firm. I like having two different firmness levels on either side of the bed. What I have found is that when I first go to bed a softer surface feels better. But as the night wears on I very well may want a firmer feel. This type of configuration allows for that. It all depends on how the body is feeling due to the preceding day. Has it been an exhausting day? Does this exhaustion come from mental strain, or physical strain,or both? The point being, there are so many different intervening variables in our lives that we never know how we are going to actually feel at the end of the day. So it really makes it nice, if you have the room for it, to have a King size bed with a split firmness value for the two different sides. I think I’m beginning to get the hang of this thing, and am developing a database of experiences in sleeping(if you want to call it that) that will allow me to make choices that will provide for me the best sleeping surface for the future. This message was modified Oct 16, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: The problem with all of this flexibility is the fact that we humans go through quite a psychological process with any new experience. We first must build a small database to adapt to the new experience. Once we get used to this new experience our old experiences tend to fade somewhat. This can make the process of determining what is the best firmness configuration of this type of latex mattress more difficult. If you want proof of this, read some of Jimsocal's frustrations with trying to find the proper bed. He went through the FloBeds experience, and many layers of FBM in trying to find that exact satisfactory mattress configuration. He has not posted in some time but my assumption is he is still working at it. Hey Eagle2 - glad to hear you're sleeping better with your new flobed. Usually when I don't post it means I either am super busy or am sleeping really well. In this case it is both. I have still been tweaking my mattress a little here and there. I have always found that every time I get it "perfect", after a few nights it becomes not so perfect. I can't account for that. I am using quality foam, the springs certainly are not wearing out... so it must just have to do with how I sleep, or what I've done to cause my body to be "out of alignment" that day .. or, who knows? In any case, the tweaking is minor because I'd say since I did mattress surgery and installed my own foams, my sleep has improved about 80%. I was hurting EVERY morning and night before, getting up with back pain and stiffness. Now , sometimes - when it's "perfect" - I have NO back pain and NO stiffness. Other times, I have a little back pain and a little stiffness. I have now incorporated my old Omalon topper into the mix. I took off the Venus memory foam because it felt too soft and now without it, it feels too hard. I am the Prince and the Pea!  Anyway, I actually want to make a post and get some feedback so I'll be back around here soon. p.s. By the way, just for the record, I have never bought anything from FBM (foambymail). All of my HR foam has come from a local foam distributor who cuts it up from huge mountain-like blocks of foam and sells it mostly to furniture manufacturers. I don't think they're supposed to sell to us, but they do, and cheap. I also got my one piece of latex from them, super cheap because it was just a "remain" they had laying around. Then, my store bought foam like my Venus and my Sensus has come from Overstock.com. My omalon came from a JCP closeout a few years ago. This message was modified Oct 16, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hello Jim! I was wondering where you had gone, I thought you had fallen off the edge of the earth. Glad to hear you're okay and still "tweaking" your mattress. Jim you need to face the fact. Tweaking your mattress is one of your favorite things to do, and seems to have become one of your important hobbies in life. Oh well, we all need something to keep us occupied in our spare time. It's good that it's something that is valuable to you, like the pursuit of the perfect nights sleep. My experience with my FloBeds is turning into quite an educational experience. Quite frankly, I have a better appreciation for where you are at with your mattress experiences. Jim I really feel that one of the principal problems with this whole process is psychological. Our bodies were made by the good Lord to be adaptable. It's a wonderful thing and we couldn't function without it. But therein lies the rub when you're trying to find the right mattress by continually changing different layers around. Your body is trying to adjust and we kept changing the rules of the game by installing different layers and flavors of foam. I know I'm doing it, and I will probably continue to do it for at least the next 30 days or so, since I'm in my 90 day window of free layers from FloBeds. But I'm determined, just like you, to get the best sleeping surface that I can. You're just doing it for a lot less money than I am!   !!!Stay Well, and good luck with your quest. Don This message was modified Oct 17, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I'll make this brief for a change. The bed is sleeping quite well. Firmness levels as follows, left side, F/F/XF, right side M/XF/XF. I'm still enjoying having two different firmness levels from which to choose. Still like softer side to begin with, but towards morning seem to enjoy firmer side more. I am calling the side with the medium top layer the softer side. This message was modified Oct 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Eagle, I am finding that I probably prefer memory foam on the top layer, instead of the convoluted. I am still waiting for the right size convoluted, but when I used the wrong size one I found that using all latex can feel a little hard in highest pressure points (mainly hips when side sleeping). Even with a softer configuration (which also starts detracting from support). So I switched out the top layer for now, and I am using 2" of memory foam over firm/medium vzone (medium hips and shoulders), over firm, over xfirm. The memory foam seems to distribute pressue a little better, (which, I think, is what it is known for). The memory foam might make the bed a little less bouncy feeling as well, which I also prefer. The main downside would be if it runs too hot. I am hoping with the wool cover and temperature balancing mattress pad, that heat will not be a big issue. I need an upgrade to a better piece of memory foam, since mine is several years old and not the best quality. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I am finding that I probably prefer memory foam on the top layer, instead of the convoluted. I am still waiting for the right size convoluted, but when I used the wrong size one I found that using all latex can feel a little hard in highest pressure points (mainly hips when side sleeping). Even with a softer configuration (which also starts detracting from support). So I switched out the top layer for now, and I am using 2" of memory foam over firm/medium vzone (medium hips and shoulders), over firm, over xfirm. The memory foam seems to distribute pressue a little better, (which, I think, is what it is known for). The memory foam might make the bed a little less bouncy feeling as well, which I also prefer. The main downside would be if it runs too hot. I am hoping with the wool cover and temperature balancing mattress pad, that heat will not be a big issue. I need an upgrade to a better piece of memory foam, since mine is several years old and not the best quality. sandman: My experience is quite different from yours, since I have the deluxe model without the zoned layer. One thing I am finding is that you need to spend at least several nights, and preferably at least a week on the same configuration before making any changes. This is of course if the current configuration is anywhere near a comfortable nights sleep for you. You kind of go a little "silly in the head" if you began to change layers, or in your case, configuration too soon. Our bodies, thank God, are quite adaptable. If we do not give ourselves enough time to adapt to your current configuration we will never know whether or not it may have worked for us. Pretty soon we are like a dog chasing its tail, never getting to a final satisfactory conclusion. What started out feeling "To firm" has over time, become almost just right. I sure am glad that FloBeds gives us 90 days to figure it out, with relatively inexpensive exchanges. I have not slept on memory foam. I did lay on a Temprepedic (SP) and it felt okay, but the price was definitely a turnoff for me. Based on what I have read on this forum, and other websites, I do not believe that I would care for memory foam. It is a highly individualized choice however. One other point that I should make that I feel is very important. I had heard that 100% natural botanically grown latex has a tendency to soften up over time. What I am finding is that this statement is true, as long as I have a more clear definition of what "softening" is. The feeling that I have is that the latex becomes what I would call, "more receptive". When I first crawl into bed at night the sheets are rather cool,( I keep my bedroom at around 70 to 72°F) but within a couple of minutes the latex has warmed from my body temperature and it becomes very comfortable. As I just stated, it has a feeling of being more receptive to my body profile. This feeling is particularly pronounced as I am a side sleeper. My bed has never felt "bouncy," Depending on the ILD of the latex used it can feel "softer" but I have never experienced any "bounciness." Even with a soft layer as my top layer and I weigh 210 pounds. If I were to configure my mattress using all extra firm latex that had an ILD of 36, for me it would feel extremely firm. Now possibly over a period of several days or weeks I might adapt to it and I might even like it. But based upon my experience so far the configuration I currently have is working out very well. So far, I am very pleased with my FloBeds. I'm glad I bought it, and I am sleeping well on it. I awaken in the morning feeling refreshed and ready to go. That's the highest accolade I can give for any mattress. This message was modified Oct 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I think that the rubber element of latex gives it what I would call some bounciness. Maybe that is not the best way to describe, but I can give you an example. If you drop something on the latex bed (like I accidently did with a 15 lb. barbell), it will bounce on the bed. If you do that on a pure foam bed, it will land with a thud and sink in. <BR><BR>Innerspring beds have some bounciness as well, due to the springs. Now, I am not complaining, since I like to have some bounciness as opposed to none (like in a pure foam bed). That is one reason I am intested in Latex. A mattress with all foam tends to sink in too much, and you end up in a rut.<BR><BR>As far as the memory foam goes, that is probably a matter of personal taste. I have used a MF topper for many years now, so I guess I am somewhat use to it. It does have some qualities that I like (as a comfort layer), so for me the best overall feel might be latex for base and support and some MF for comfort. Still too early to tell though, since I have not really had a chance to try the right size convoluted layer. This message was modified Oct 19, 2009 by sandman
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Sandman: I tried your bounced test with a 10 pound barbell. You're right. It bounced. It bounced more on the firmer side of the bed and less on the softer side of the bed. I dropped it from a height of about 2 1/2 to 3 feet and it bounced once about 2 inches on the firm side, and about an inch on the softer side. That's about as scientific as I can get. When you described latex as "bouncy" I thought in terms of the human body feeling a bouncy sensation when you crawled into it, are rolled over on it. Which I never feel. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I have occasionally noticed a sense of bounce/motion if I move a certain way on the bed. More so than on an innerspring or foam bed that I have. I think in a previous post, you referred to a jello feel. That is really what I am talking about, so maybe bounciness is the wrong description. I am sure that on a water bed there would be a big sensation of "motion", although I have never slept on a water bed. In normal sleeping and turning over I don't really notice it at all. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| To jump on your recent posts of 'bounciness': As i am obsessed with motion transfer--or lack thereof!--i was told by a salesman that latex is 'bouncy' but doesn't transfer motion. I assume that means that the bounciness is localized, and doesn't spread to the rest of the layer. My latex layer is *very* jiggly when by itself (it's the ild 20 from FBM)--when it's off the bed it definitely *seems* like the bounciness travels across the mattress, but i could be wrong. The mattress in general seems pretty stable, but i wonder if there's more motion transfer than is usually said, for latex...Some people claim there's none, some that there is ample motion. Hmm! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| I can't really answer that at this point. I have only had the latex bed for a few days, and I have only used it alone. I think the motion would be mainly localized, but not totally sure. I think there would be less possiblity of motion detected on a pure foam mattress like Tempurpedic. As I said a few posts ago, I think using memory foam as the top comfort layer may mute the bouncy/jello feeling a bit. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
I think we have to find what works best for us. This message was modified Oct 20, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I decided, since this was “sheet changing day”, to take off the mattress cover and the convoluted 2 inch top layer of latex and inspect the surface of the two top 3 inch layers. The reason being that it seemed to me the latex had been softening in the hip area. And since it will be five weeks since I first set up the mattress, come this next Monday, I thought it might be a good time to inspect these layers. I could not see, or feel any indentions or softening in the hip area of these two top players. The layer on the right side of my bed is a medium layer, and the layer on my left side of the bed is a firm layer. The only thing that I can figure out is, it is either purely psychological, or, the natural botanical grown latex has the capacity for rearranging its cell structure in such a way that there is softening without any indication either by feeling it with your hand, or visually. The one thought that came to my mind is how good quality natural leather in a pair of gloves, or a pair of shoes, will “break in” to the wearers physical configuration over a period of time and become more comfortable. Possibly this is what is happening. In any event the bed is sleeping quite comfortably. At this point in time, I’m glad I bought it. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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<BR> eagle2 wrote: Another night, another good nights sleep!<img alt="" src="/components/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/regular_smile.gif"/><BR><BR>Patty and I went ahead last night and changed out the one top layer of soft Talalay on the right side of the bed. I then installed the medium layer.<BR><BR>There is definitely a difference when sleeping on medium rather than soft. The soft layer has an ILD of 22, the medium layer has an ILD of 28. So, if my calculations are correct, that is an increase in firmness of approximately 27%. <BR><BR>Not an insignificant amount, and I could definitely feel it. It is interesting the increase in ILD between the soft layer and the medium layer is considerably more than the other firmnesses. For instance the percent difference between a medium piece at 28 ILD and a firm peace at 32 ILD is only approximately 15%. The difference between firm and extra firm (32 to 36 ILD) is approximately 13% increase in firmness. So the most significant increase in firmness is between the soft layer and the medium layer. <BR><BR>If there are some folks out there that are much better at math than this poor student, please correct my calculations, if need be.<BR><BR>I think I’m going to like this configuration, of course only one night is totally inadequate to draw any concrete conclusions. So to reiterate. The right side of the bed is currently configured like this. Top layer medium, middle layer extra firm, bottom layer extra firm. Left side of the bed, firm/firm/extra firm.<BR><BR>I like having two different firmness levels on either side of the bed. What I have found is that when I first go to bed a softer surface feels better. But as the night wears on I very well may want a firmer feel. This type of configuration allows for that. It all depends on how the body is feeling due to the preceding day. Has it been an exhausting day? Does this exhaustion come from mental strain, or physical strain,or both? The point being, there are so many different intervening variables in our lives that we never know how we are going to actually feel at the end of the day. So it really makes it nice, if you have the room for it, to have a King size bed with a split firmness value for the two different sides.<BR><BR>I think I’m beginning to get the hang of this thing, and am developing a database of experiences in sleeping(if you want to call it that) that will allow me to make choices that will provide for me the best sleeping surface for the future.<BR><br type="_moz"/><BR> <BR>Hello eagle. Thank you for being so detailed and meticulous in your posts. I've been out of the loop for a few weeks, just the rigors of raising a 6 and a half month old baby boy and working full time. I appreciate the information on firmness levels. I'm still in the process of researching a new latex mattress but in the meantime have been sleeping on a firm inner spring mattress. It occurred to me that a latex mattress topper would be a good interim investment for this temporary situation until a find the latex mattress that will suit our needs. The inner spring mattress is a bit too firm for me so I'm trying to figure out the appropriate ILD for a latex topper to go on top of this mattress. Jim made a good point in another thread about toppers, he said to start with a one inch topper and then another layer if you need it, a very wise approach. It's deciding on the ILD that is the challenge. Something is telling me to go with 34 for my situation, we'll see if it works. Thanks again for sharing your experience with all of us.<BR><BR>JayThis message was modified Oct 28, 2009 by enlighten
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Jay: JimSoCal would be the best person to answer your question about the proper ILD for a topper. I am continuing to struggle with what is the best firmness layers for my FlowBeds. I thought I had about working it out when I discovered that one side of the bed feels a little too firm now. But I have learned from five weeks experience that you cannot make up your mind very quickly in this business. The body has a way of adapting over time. And I would say you need at least three nights sleep, and preferably more like a week. I will enter here what I have put in my diary that I am keeping so that I can recall what I have went through in this process. Well, I took off the left side of the bed the top soft layer, and the middle medium layer. I put back in their place the two firm layers. It may have been a little too much firmness. I'm going to sleep on it for a while and see how it does, or I should say how my body adjusts to it. The right side still has the medium layer, over and extra firm layer, over and extra firm layer. I boxed up the medium layer and the soft layer and they are ready to ship back to FlowBeds. But I'm going to wait a while before I do it because I'm beginning to wonder if I might not need the medium layer for the left side of the bed. If I choose to do that I would have on the left side M/F/XF and on the right side I would have M/XF/XF. I sure am glad that I have 90 days to work this out. This may sound odd, but if I do this, I will wind up with what I had originally. Full circle? As you can see I am not someone who makes up their mind quickly. Good luck Jay with your topper investigation. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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As I have adjusted to the firmness layers as I have selected them, I'm finding the bed sleeps more and more comfortably. One of the principal keys to this whole operation is taking enough time to let your body adjusts to the configuration. The way I have it now the left side of my bed is the most firm feeling. Right side of my bed is slightly softer. What I have found is that the topmost layer (excluding the convoluted layer) definitely gives you the initial impression of softness or firmness. However, the second layer is the layer that seems to provide the feeling of support. What the third layer provides is hard to say since I have always left it the same, extra firm. Current configuration, left side of bed is F/F/XF. The right side of the bed is M/XF/XF This message was modified Nov 1, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, I am somewhat like you in that I am now using medium/xfirm/firm or firm/firm/xfirm. The latter seems a bit firmer but more supportive (although I have only used firm/firm/xfirm 1 night). I have the Vzone, so the comparisons are not quite the same, but I am finding that the piece under the hips is the main variable. I use soft under the shoulders, which is nice. I have not felt any should pressure using this mattress. <BR><BR>I found soft under the hips is not supprtive enough. Medium/firm/xfirm is okay, but probably not enough support either.<BR><BR>Have you tried firm/firm/firm? That might be intersting in that it would be a little softer but with a deep level of support. Eventually I will probably swap out a couple of soft vzone pieces for firmer ones, but I will probably retain some flexibility for changes after the 90 day period is over. This message was modified Nov 2, 2009 by sandman
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I am somewhat like you in that I am now using medium/xfirm/firm or firm/firm/xfirm. The latter seems a bit firmer but more supportive (although I have only used firm/firm/xfirm 1 night). I have the Vzone, so the comparisons are not quite the same, but I am finding that the piece under the hips is the main variable. I use soft under the shoulders, which is nice. I have not felt any should pressure using this mattress. <BR><BR>I found soft under the hips is not supprtive enough. Medium/firm/xfirm is okay, but probably not enough support either.<BR><BR>Have you tried firm/firm/firm? That might be intersting in that it would be a little softer but with a deep level of support. Eventually I will probably swap out a couple of soft vzone pieces for firmer ones, but I will probably retain some flexibility for changes after the 90 day period is over. Sandman: You have a very different situation from mine since you have the Vzone. I would imagine this gives you a great deal of flexibility. I think for the immediate future I'm going to leave things as they are. As I reported in my last post, things seems to be going along fairly well and I awaken in the morning without any discomfort after having experienced a good nights sleep. So while the temptation to "fiddle" with the configuration is always there( although taking the cover off and moving these layers around gets to be a bit old after awhile) I am going to do my best to resist. That was one of the fears I had about the Vzone bed, was that I would "fiddle" too much. I have enough variables as it is. Yes, it would seem that our physical needs for firmness levels are paralleling one another fairly closely. But it certainly is reassuring to have someone like FlowBeds, and their liberal exchange policy backing you up, just in case you feel the need for an exchange. At this point in time, I am very glad that I found FlowBeds and purchased this mattress. This message was modified Nov 2, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Bed still configured , left side F/F/XF, right side M/XF/XF Since it's been a bit of time since I last updated this thread I thought I would add this thought. It is interesting how the body adapts over time. The longer I sleep on this mattress the more I enjoy the firmer latex. But it all depends on how the day has gone. A lot of the time I enjoy starting out on the softer side of the bed, but not always. Invariably as the night wears on towards morning I seem to enjoy the firmer side of the bed. So a lot of this depends on what is going on in our lives and how our bodies respond to it. But the old saying about trying out mattresses is certainly true. You have to sleep on them for a decent length of time to really find out what is too soft or too firm. This of course is only if the bed is not giving you pain. In which case you need to do something different right away. This message was modified Nov 14, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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The blended piece of firm latex arrived today. The first thing I noticed was that there was very little odor when I unpackaged the layer. It had a very slight chemical smell, and a very slight cookie smell, but the odor was much lighter than the original odor that I experienced when unpacking the 100% natural botanically grown latex. This odor would not be a problem for me, as whatever there is, since it is so slight, I'm sure will dissipate considerably over time. I noticed that the 100% natural latex on my bed has almost completely lost its slightly sweet odor. therefore I can say without reservation,as far as I am concerned, that I would not hesitate to purchase a blended piece of latex because of any odor that it might have. The major difference that I noticed was that the blended firm piece of 32 ILD latex seem to be softer than the firm piece of 32 ILD natural latex. My guess would be that the blended piece of firm feels more like a medium piece of natural. This evaluation is extremely subjective, and amounted to nothing more than simply pressing down on the two pieces of latex with both of my hands spread flat against the latex with some body pressure. I will just have to sleep on it for a while to be able to give any kind of a definitive comparison. So now, according to the ILD on the layers. On the right side of my bed I have a firm, over extra firm, over extra firm. On the left side of my bed I have what I had before, namely, firm, over firm, over extra firm. Again the new piece of firm blended is on the right side of my bed and takes the place of the medium piece of natural that I had their previously. After I have slept on it for several nights I will report back on my experience. This message was modified Nov 30, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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KimberlyH wrote: That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! I agree with you regarding the odor. I to expected the blended to have more odor than the all-natural. As I stated I did receive a slight chemical odor that I did not experience with the all-natural. The all-natural order was most assuredly a slightly sweet cookie dough odor. I rather like it. The odor from the blended was much less precise and much less noticeable, quite the opposite of what I expected. But that was the main reason that I ordered a blended piece so that I could check it out for myself. As far as the ILD goes, again I agree with you Kimberly, there should be no difference whatsoever. But I did find a research piece the other day and I posted it, indicating just how variable these tests for ILD can be. They can vary all over the place. Even from a company like Latex International who seems to have a more precise operation than most other companies, still you get this variance. That is much more troubling to me than the odor business since the smell diminishes with time, but the firmness of the layers stays the same. In any event the only thing that is going to matter in the end is how it sleeps. Once I have had a chance over several nights to evaluate the two firm layers which are right on the top of my mattress, I will post my evaluation. Looking from the foot towards the head of the bed on the left side I have a firm layer of hundred percent natural. On the right side of the bed I have a blended piece of firm. So this will give me a pretty good opportunity to see how each one of them sleeps. I will be sure to record my findings on this board. This message was modified Nov 30, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I called Latex International once about the smell, and they told me that the all natural might smell even stronger. They said that the smell comes from the natural latex. I have noticed a bit of a chemical smell with the blended as well. It does diminish. Although, I am use to it, and I kind of like the smell now when I am changing layers. I didn't like the smell in a pillow though. Flobeds told me that the natural latex is heavier than the blended, therefore it must be denser. That might affect the perception of feeling it by hand. The real test will be in the sleeping. As you noted, it does vary from piece to piece so we may not be able to draw any firm conclusion on the difference in firmness. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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As I indicated yesterday the blended firm piece of latex feels softer than the 100% natural firm latex feels. I believe this is due to the density of the material. I would advise anyone purchasing blended latex to go one step firmer over natural. In other words if you feel that you need a firm piece of latex in a natural latex and you're going to order blended, order and extra firm piece of blended. And so forth. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Interesting. Just one more variable to have to deal with. It is hard to say if that will always apply, due to the differences in batches. However, all natural talalay may be somewhere in between blended talalay and dunlop in terms of inherent firmness. I seem to keep switching to firmer on mine because of a sense of sinking in too far. Last night I used XF on the top 2 layers over firm. However, I had 1" of extra Celsion as well. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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KimberlyH wrote: That's very interesting. If anything, I would have expected the blended to feel slightly firmer than the all natural. But really, I would have expected them both to feel identical because 1) they are both manufactured by the same company, LI, and 2) they undergo the same ILD testing. It doesn't make sense that they could share a similar ILD and yet one feel softer than the other. I'm also surprised that you say the smell on the blended was less noticable than with the 100% natural. Again, I would have expected it to be the other way around, if anything. I received a replacement piece of blended last week and could barely notice any odor from it. Keep us posted! Yeah that WAS a surprising report on both counts. Counter to almost everything i've been reading on odor & firmness of blended vs. natural. either way, thanks for the update eagle. it's not your fault the data just adds to the confustion- what you felt you felt, what you smelled you smelled. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Yes the difference is real between natural and blended. The difference is in the density. A 3 inch piece of natural will weigh somewhere in the vicinity of two to three pounds more for a California King half sheet of latex. By "half sheet" I'm talking about the fact that most everyone gets their beds in split layers. So a half sheet, or layer, or core, or whatever you want to call it, will weigh about 2 to 3 pounds more in a natural as opposed to a blended piece. This translates into a softer feel for the blended piece. And I am going to suppose that it is less supportive due to the lesser amount of solids that wind up in the mix. "Just my guess!" I posted some time ago a rather lengthy piece about the difference between ILD and density. You would think that ILD would give you all the information you need to be able to judge the firmness of a piece of latex. But evidently this is not so. As is stated in one of the PDF's "foam density is independent of foam firmness." so if we are going to talk intelligently about this subject we need a lot more information and understanding. The link that I will give below gives you a lot of information. Go here and read this information. http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/polyurethane-foam -association/31-0-1.html haysdb made a very informed post about foam. You will have to download the various articles as they are in PDF format. But it is a very precise informed response to all the speculative talk we have about density and ILD and other things. I made a post about this and got no response whatsoever from anyone. This information is provided by the "Polyurethane Foam Association" or PFA. This experience with the blended piece of latex just reinforces my belief in the validity of a company like FloBeds, with their excellent exchange policy, and if need be, a good return policy. So you pays your money, and takes your chances, with so many other companies. Sandman: I will be waiting your experience with the Celsion layer of latex. Latex International is very high on this as a new potential answer to latex sleeping too warm for some people. And since this is your principal concern with latex your experience with this new type of latex will be quite interesting to hear about. This message was modified Dec 1, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| I take the fact that they developed Celsion as an admission that latex can be too warm. 1 inch did not seem to make much difference in the first night of testing. I am going to fold it in half to get effectively 2 inches for tonight. I folded in half 1 inch of memory foam on the other side to sort of balance the mattress out. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: I take the fact that they developed Celsion as an admission that latex can be too warm. 1 inch did not seem to make much difference in the first night of testing. I am going to fold it in half to get effectively 2 inches for tonight. I folded in half 1 inch of memory foam on the other side to sort of balance the mattress out. I believe this has been discussed before possibly even in this thread, but I will state my feelings again regarding latex sleeping warm. For me at least, I have not found my latex bed to sleep warm. Of course I think it needs to be reiterated that I slept for 20 some odd years on a waterbed. As everyone knows one of the features of a waterbed is that it has a heater that you can regulate. Since the human body has a temperature of approximately 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit I found that running my waterbed at about 90° most of the time was best. If it was beginning to sleep to warm I just turned it down. With latex I find for this time of year when it's getting cold, that when I first crawl into bed the sheets feel pretty cool. But within about two minutes I am quite warm and comfortable. This tells me that the latex is retaining body heat. How this will work out in the summertime remains to be seen. But I would think that I can turn down our air conditioner by a degree or two and if necessary just sleep under a sheet. In any event, I feel confident I can work it out. Now my wife, who has her own bed and bedroom, sleeps much warmer.Whether or not she would care for a latex bed could be another matter altogether. Then of course there are those who just prefer the feeling of sleeping on an innerspring mattress. This is what is so good about companies like FlowBeds which offers an unlimited exchange policy for 90 days, and then a return policy within that 90 days if the customer cannot find a combination that is comfortable for them. When you're spending this kind of money, and purchasing off of the Internet, that kind of guarantee is essential, it seems to me. What did you think of the information contained in the link I posted from the PFA? This message was modified Dec 1, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Actually I did not know you can control the temperature of a waterbed. Never really thought about it. You heated it to 90 degrees, which about what latex warms up to. So, latex is probably a good fit for you temperature wise. Perhaps 90 degress is close to the most comfortably temperature for most people. I can't have a waterbed where I live (I lease), otherwise that might be an interesting option for me. Not sure if I would like the feel though, but have never tried one. I am coming to the unfortunate conclusion that nothing will be totally satisfying for me. It will be a matter of picking the least worst situation. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Actually I did not know you can control the temperature of a waterbed. Never really thought about it. You heated it to 90 degrees, which about what latex warms up to. So, latex is probably a good fit for you temperature wise. Perhaps 90 degress is close to the most comfortably temperature for most people. I can't have a waterbed where I live (I lease), otherwise that might be an interesting option for me. Not sure if I would like the feel though, but have never tried one. I am coming to the unfortunate conclusion that nothing will be totally satisfying for me. It will be a matter of picking the least worst situation. Sandman: I don't know where I saw it now, but some time ago I read about a chilled water conditioner for a mattress for those who sleep warm, regardless of whether that is a latex mattress or innerspring mattress. It was rather expensive as I recall,, as it had a water filled pad that fit under some kind of a cover and on top of the mattress. There was a water reservoir and an electric pump that sat on the floor. You could regulate the amount of water that was pumped through this pad and thereby control, to some extent at least, the temperature of the mattress you were sleeping on. I am sure a Google search would turn up this specific information for you. This message was modified Dec 1, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| I am not finding the latex bed sleeps hot. Now, compared to the traditional innerspring mattress I had before . . . well on a cold night I'd crawl into bed and shiver until my little spot of bed warmed up. With the latex bed, I crawl into bed, it might be cold, and I warm up pretty fast. But I have never had a feeling of being overly or uncomfortably warm. I've felt just right. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, I have seen that device. I read something that it can make noise which some people did not like. I would view that as a potential last resort at some point. Kimberly, I would not say that latex is so hot that I wake up sweating or anything like that. I would say that it gets warmer than I like. Sort of like lying on a heating pad that I would like to turn down the temperature on. It is enough to make it harder to sleep at certain points during the night if/when I wake up. At that point I feel the mattress below me and it definitely feels quite warm. From temperature readings I have taken, I know that it heats up to 90 degrees from about 72 when I first lie down. Perhaps many people are happy with 90 degrees and I would be happy at 85. Not really sure, but I assume it has to heat up to about the same temperature for everyonne, and it doesn't bother most people. An innerspring will feel warm to the touch as well, but maybe it is several degrees cooler and has less contact with the body. Therefore, it is does not feel so warm to bother me much. At least that was my experience sleeping on an innerspring last week. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I have slept quite well on a blended piece of firm latex for 4 nights now. As I said after the first night of sleep it feels very much like the medium piece of natural. This is due to the density factor. I will tell you this about the difference between blended and natural. You can certainly feel the difference in density when you pick the pieces up. To pick up a firm piece of blended compared to a firm piece of natural is considerably different. The density factor in natural is quite a bit higher than blended it seems to me. How this would work out in sleeping over time, and how it would work out for durability over time, remains to be seen. I would just add this final note. If you're going to be buying blended Latex International latex, I would purchase firmer pieces than if I were going to purchase all natural. The density factor between the two seems to be fairly considerable to me. This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Hi Eagle, I know form experience that the density makes quite a difference (in addition to the ILD rating), hence the reason why dunlap rated at the same ILD as natural talalay will feel much firmer (in my experience). I wonder also about one other factor in your "experiment", that is, do you know the exact ILDs of the 2 pieces you are comparing? I know Flobeds tries to aim right in the middle of the range for each firmness (e.g. 28 for med and 32 for firm); however, if you got a piece of firm that was on the lower range of 30-34 and a piece of medium on the higher range of 26-30, they could effectively have very close to the same ILD. Some of the pieces from that this might be a factor as well as the difference in density. I'm still having formatting problems, and have no idea how to fix! So, I'm sorry this is hard on the eyes.... Linda |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Oops, my message appears to be missing a line now. I was saying that some of the pieces form Flobeds also have the LI label still on them, indicating the exact ILD as measured by LI. Perhaps your pieces do, and you know they are different ILDs, but I wanted to mention that this might be a factor in addition to the differences in density. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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linda wrote: Oops, my message appears to be missing a line now. I was saying that some of the pieces form Flobeds also have the LI label still on them, indicating the exact ILD as measured by LI. Perhaps your pieces do, and you know they are different ILDs, but I wanted to mention that this might be a factor in addition to the differences in density. You know Linda, you make a very interesting point. Yes I have noticed that some of the pieces of latex have the original Latex International calculations pasted on them. In fact the medium piece of all-natural, as rated by Latex International, was 26.2 ILD, as best I can recall. The FloBeds sticker said 28 ILD. My assumption is that for the convenience of warehousing and therefore picking layers to ship to customers FloBeds tries and standardize their ILD ratings. So in essence my medium piece is actually on the very lower end of the ILD rating, not in the middle as stated by the FloBeds sticker. But in fact we are only talking about a difference of 1.8 ILD. The density situation is much more important I believe. I read a very good article about ILD ratings one time, and I believe I posted it somewhere, but with my faulty memory I would have an awful hard time trying to find it. But it went into great lengths of explanation about how ILD ratings works. They conducted a very scientific experiment. They use the same type of equipment with five different companies doing measurement. They made sure of the sizes of sample pieces, the humidity and temperature was heavily controlled, and they still came up with quite a bit of variance from company to company in ILD rating. I think we can become lost in the numbers. This business about the density I believe is probably every bit as important, if not more important, than the ILD number. Did you read my post regarding this and the downloaded PDFs from the Foam Manufactures Association, or what ever their name is,it's a trade group promoting polyurethane foam. It is very informative, even though it is principally about polyurethane foam they do talk about latex. So in the end I'm going to use the JimSoCal approach to determining what is best. I'm going to sleep on it and report my feelings. But it is good to have more information. I kind of look at information as something like ballast in a seagoing vessel. I don't know whether you're aware of it or not but ballast has been utilized in seagoing vessels forever. This is what gives blue water ships the ability to stabilize themselves, to some extent at least, in rough weather. So I feel like the more information I have, on any given subject, the less likely I will be to be blown off course by every chance gust of ill-informed wind. This message was modified Dec 4, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| All of my layers have the LI ratings on them. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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For anyone who has been following this thread you know that I acquired a firm piece of blended latex from FlowBeds to try out. I have found that for me the all natural 100% botanically grown latex feels better as opposed to the blended product. I believe the reason for this is the fact that the natural latex is denser. My one piece of blended is rated a 32 ILD firm. And while the surface tension of the latex is slightly firmer than the medium piece of all natural rated 28 ILD, when I am laying on it I have found, that for me, while they are quite similar, the natural has a more supportive feel due to the density of the material. Therefore I have changed my bed back to an all natural configuration. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Just thought I would add a side note to my ongoing experience with my FlowBed. I had requested an exchange of my firm piece of blended latex, for a firm piece of all natural latex. I was just comparing the shipping weight for the blended piece of latex compared to the shipping weight for the all natural that was shipped yesterday. There is a 7.6 pound differential between the blended and the natural. The shipping box for the natural weights 31 pounds, the shipped box for the blended weight 23.4 pounds. This is due to the difference in density between the blended piece and the all natural piece, both of them being rated Firm with an ILD of 32. This is the point I was trying to make with the PDFs that I posted from the Polyurethane Foam Association in my thread "What is more important ILD or Density of foam?". The way ILD is measured, and the density of the foam, are two different things. It would be very helpful if the people selling latex would give both the ILD measurement and the density measurement of the various types of foam. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, I remember that flobeds told me that the 100% natural was also a bit thicker than the blended. So. that might account for some, but not all, of the difference in weight. I believe sleepez told me once that the blended and 100% natural had the same density. Could have been someone that did not know and just threw out an answer. It might be worth calling Latex International to see if there really is a density diffrerence and how much. It could also be that every batch might be a bit different. Hard to see that accounting for the difference you have though. |
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I remember that flobeds told me that the 100% natural was also a bit thicker than the blended. So. that might account for some, but not all, of the difference in weight. I believe sleepez told me once that the blended and 100% natural had the same density. Could have been someone that did not know and just threw out an answer. It might be worth calling Latex International to see if there really is a density diffrerence and how much. It could also be that every batch might be a bit different. Hard to see that accounting for the difference you have though. Sandman: I understand your confusion and reluctance to accept at face value this evaluation regarding density between blended and natural latex. However, I would be very hesitant to accept SleepEZ's statement that there is no difference as they seem to prefer blended. As you can see on their website blended is somewhat cheaper than natural. A 3 inch California King piece of natural cost $485, a blended piece of California King 3" piece costs $441. It is interesting to note that on there web site for individual pieces they quote 3" but when they are talking about their mattresses and the thickness of the various pieces they talk in terms of 2.8". I don't know what's going on there. The variance in height that was referred to is correct. Dave Turner told me that when the latex is poured at Latex International that the normal manufacture process for blended is approximate 5.6 inches thick and for natural is a full 6 inches. They then slice the 6 inch piece at FlowBeds to make two 3 inch pieces of natural. The 5.6 inch blended piece is then sliced as two 2.8 inch pieces. Since I did not want to have a dip in the height differential between the natural on one side of my bed and the blended piece on the other side of my bed FloBeds found a damaged piece of blended and was able to cut for me a 3 inch piece of blended. As a consequence this allowed me to compare the shipping weights of two identically thick pieces of latex as I reported in my post above. There is nothing wrong with blended latex. It will make an excellent bed. But there definitely is a difference in density between natural and blended latex, at least there is between the two pieces that I received from FlowBeds that were manufactured by Latex International. Trust me. This whole business about density is quite important, it seems to me. And very well could account for all the difficulties that everybody is having trying to buy individual pieces of latex and get a comparison as they try to build their own beds. If you're buying polyurethane foam, it is pretty standard in the industry to talk in terms of density weights, as in so many pounds per cubic foot. This is a great help in determining the ability of foam to support weight. ILD is an important consideration, but as in so many things in life, only one consideration. It should not be, "The end all be all" of selecting latex. It is a rough indicator, and as such, quite helpful, " for comparing between different pieces of latex regarding firmness. But surface firmness, and density support, are two different things! The PDFs I posted tell-all about it. This message was modified Dec 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Eagle, I am not reluctant to accept it, but it would be nice to have some definitive data from LI on what the densities of the 2 different latexes are. Based on your experience, I believe they are different. I am sure sleepez is wrong (or at least the person I spoke to). However, even when I talked to flobeds originally, I got the impression that there were no significant performance differences between the 2. Based on your experience, I think there are performance differences due to the density difference. That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, I am not reluctant to accept it, but it would be nice to have some definitive data from LI on what the densities of the 2 different latexes are. Based on your experience, I believe they are different. I am sure sleepez is wrong (or at least the person I spoke to). However, even when I talked to flobeds originally, I got the impression that there were no significant performance differences between the 2. Based on your experience, I think there are performance differences due to the density difference. That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different. Sandman said: "That does not mean that either one is necessarily better or worse. Just different." I agree! |
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Yes, but I agree with you that it would be nice to have more information on the performance differences. Perhaps too hard to quantify and too subjective. Even some generalties like 100% natural is denser so it should have more suport for heavier people. Or blended less dense so it is more plush feeling, etc. There seems to be little information out there to make an informed decision with. Tthe party line that I seem to have heard is that the performance in basically the same. This message was modified Dec 19, 2009 by sandman
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sandman wrote: Yes, but I agree with you that it would be nice to have more information on the performance differences. Perhaps too hard to quantify and too subjective. Even some generalties like 100% natural is denser so it should have more suport for heavier people. Or blended less dense so it is more plush feeling, etc. There seems to be little information out there to make an informed decision with. Tthe party line that I seem to have heard is that the performance in basically the same. Sandman: My personal belief is that blended latex exists because it is less expensive to produce. When you stop to think about it 70% of this product is petrochemical. Petrochemicals can be manufactured and purchased at a much reduced price over natural, from everything I can find on the Internet about this subject. Plus the fact that you do not have the potential international difficulties acquiring materials for a petrochemical product as opposed to a rubber tree product. When you look at history synthetic rubber came from the fact that the Japanese during World War II cut off all availability of natural rubber. The opposing warring powers had to come up with a solution to this lack of essential resource. So they developed synthetic rubber. As a child living in California I remember this quite well. To begin with synthetic rubber was a very poor product. We used to make guns made out of sticks that would fire a piece of rubber cut from an old inner tube. The synthetic rubber inner tubes were pathetic. They had almost no stretch to them and thus the rubber bands we got from them had no "firepower" to them. The greatest thing was to be able to find an old natural rubber inner tube, to us they were like gold. Principal thing that we have to keep in mind about latex mattresses is the more dense the material, and the more of this material that is in the product, the more support it should have. I believe we would probably find that Dunlop has one of the higher rates of density. I still believe that Dunlop has a very important role to play in mattresses, primarily as a support core material. But since, as far as I know, there is no Dunlop produced in the USA, except under license by Latex International for which they must pay a fee, and thus do not promote it, but rather promote their own produced Talalay,I do not believe were going to see a lot of Dunlop promoted. It is available from several manufacturers of mattresses. Namely, Savvy Rest, SleepEZ, Habitat, and I'm sure there are others. But density definitely matters. And I am like you, I find it most disconcerting that the latex industry does not seem to want to talk about this factor very much. I wonder why? |
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I agree that the reason is probably that it is cheaper to make, so perhaps they can build in a larger profit margin. There may not be enough 100% natural to go around, so they have to sell a fair amount of synthetic as well to meet the demand. I wonder if they can make the sythentic with the same density as the natural, but choose not to because it would cost more? The blend is still a pretty good product, equal to or better than most (if not all) of the foams they put in the mass produced mattresses. However, if you are heavier and looking for more suport, the denser 100% natural is probably "better" than the blended (of course that is subjective - you would need blind tests to really find out what people prefer). |
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One of the reasons that I requested a blended piece of firm latex, was to have my own personal very small test between it and all natural. I found that the blended piece of firm felt quite similar to the medium piece of natural. And keep this in mind about my natural piece of medium latex. It is on the lower end of the range for medium. It's actual ILD rated by Latex International was 26.2, as I recall. FlowBeds had actually put a sticker on it saying that it was 28 ILD. The medium rating for natural is 26 to 30 ILD. So my piece is at the very bottom of the medium-range and only 2 pounds from the top of the natural soft range. The feeling that I had, upon first laying on the blended piece, was that it felt a little firmer than the medium piece. But after laying on them for several minutes it seemed to me that the medium piece of natural felt every bit as supportive as the firm piece of blended. Now as you say this is entirely subjective. But as I have suggested before, if I were purchasing a blended mattress today, I would go for a higher ILD. For instance I have one side of my bed now in all natural that is firm/firm/extra firm. If I were purchasing this same bed in blended I would go with, extra firm/extra firm/extra firm. Since FlowBeds has such a liberal exchange policy I would feel quite safe in giving this configuration a try. This message was modified Dec 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Maybe this is why I found myself with all three layers being extra firm (36 ILD). Maybe in a blended you have to order higher up on the ILD scale. I do remember that the first mattress I had from Custom Comfort had a 6" core of 26 ILD latex and that was WAY too soft. But the 36 ILD feels quite firm and offers great support. |
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Kimberly, You have 3 layers of 36ILD, which is less than 8", but I thought you said your mattress is 10". Do you have another layer there? I got samples of 28 and 32 ILD of Talalay Latex from Sleep like a bear. I wanted to get a sample of 36, but they didn't have any. I think that may be what I need. I have (from Overstock which doesn't list ILD) 1 1/2" of firm latex (perhaps 44?), 1 1/2" of 24ILD Talalay (that was marked) and 1" 21ILD (Natura latex) and 1" cheap memory foam. I need something more for my hip area, my shoulders are good. I think this may be too soft, but I have no back pain so it isn't too soft. The reason I think it is too soft is I feel trapped (sunken) by latex around the legs (below hip area). By the way this is over a good firm spring mattress. Any ideas from you or anyone else? This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. |
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sandman wrote: Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. Sandman I have forgotten, do you have an all natural or a blended latex FlowBeds? Regarding your question "would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor?" It all depends on the individual. I'm assuming you're asking if you had an extra firm piece of blended latex would it feel the same as a firm piece of natural? Or is your question, if I had an extra firm piece of blended would feel the same as an extra firm piece of natural? My assumption is, (based on my very limited experiment) that a firm piece of natural would feel very similar to an extra firm piece of blended. but as I say this is a very individual thing. You may feel no difference at all, or a slight difference. If you have an all natural FlowBeds, then your configuration of F/XF/XF, at your weight, should be more than adequate for support, it would seem to me. |
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Leo3 wrote: Kimberly, You have 3 layers of 36ILD, which is less than 8", but I thought you said your mattress is 10". Do you have another layer there? I got samples of 28 and 32 ILD of Talalay Latex from Sleep like a bear. I wanted to get a sample of 36, but they didn't have any. I think that may be what I need. I have (from Overstock which doesn't list ILD) 1 1/2" of firm latex (perhaps 44?), 1 1/2" of 24ILD Talalay (that was marked) and 1" 21ILD (Natura latex) and 1" cheap memory foam. I need something more for my hip area, my shoulders are good. I think this may be too soft, but I have no back pain so it isn't too soft. The reason I think it is too soft is I feel trapped (sunken) by latex around the legs (below hip area). By the way this is over a good firm spring mattress. Any ideas from you or anyone else? Yes, I'm rounding. The layers are actually 2 3/4" I believe, and then there's a 2" convoluted topper. I have been wondering too if XF blended = F all natural, if this issue of density = support is true. I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed. |
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Kimberly said: "I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed." Hi Kimberly. If your mattress did not compress in your hip area, and all other areas where your body was putting weight on the mattress, it is my confirmed believe that you would be very uncomfortable indeed. The whole problem with mattresses, regardless of an individual's personal preferences, is the ability of the mattress to compress where needed and still give good support to the spinal column. As much as is possible, from everything I have read, the spine needs to remain in as straight a line as possible, particularly for a side sleeper. A back sleeper may need a slightly different alignment situation. I believe our problems come in the area of softness. We all like a "nice cushy soft feel" when we first lay down on a mattress. The question is, will this "nice cushy soft feeling mattress", give our backs adequate support throughout the night. I am no expert on this matter, and until just approximately six months ago, I knew next to nothing at all. I have done an extensive amount of research on the Internet, and in practical terms, by owning a latex mattress, to learn the little bit that I now know. it is my assumption that very possibly the best sleeping surface bed is either a properly configured waterbed, or an innerspring mattress. Latex mattresses, while being a very good and acceptable sleeping surface, lacks the adaptability to the human body that can be configured into a waterbed or and innerspring mattress, at least that is my assumption. Unfortunately waterbeds can leak and can have other problems, and quality manufactured innerspring mattresses can be very expensive, and shipping them around the country can be very awkward and expensive. Innerspring mattresses have been around the longest of any configuration. The most expensive mattresses in the world are innerspring mattresses. There is one innerspring mattress made in, I believe it's Switzerland are one of those Nordic countries, that makes custom-made mattresses that cost many, many, thousands of dollars. The one I looked at cost $12,000. It is an innerspring mattress with a comfort layer that is principally composed of horsehair! So this is not an easy subject to get adequate information on. It takes a lot of time, a lot of research and experience,and sometimes money, or just a lot of dumb luck to come up with the proper sleeping surface for you This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by eagle2
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Let's say I add another 1 to 2" of latex (firmer layer) to my already 4 3/4" layers over my spring mattress. If it is firm enough and you actually are not sinking into that layer then 5-6" is not too much is it? I am just thinking about people who actually say they are comfy with 2 to 3" over their spring mattress. I have never been that person who was able to get away with only 2 to 3" I still sink to the hard spring mattress. I guess if it was firm like 36ILD or natural latex that is even denser (thanks for the education on that) then that wouldn't compromise my back or make me feel like I am sinking would it. I wish I knew the winning combination for my hips to not be in pain and wake me up after 1-2 hours. I can't stand to sleep on my back!!! It drives me crazy. I want to sleep on my sides, how frustrating this can be after almost a year of experimenting. My back and shoulders are finally happy and have been for months now, but sigh, my hips are still being either compressed by the mattress or the soft layers to the 1 1/2" firm latex on the bottom. I am so envious of people who find comfort with their mattresses or latex or memory foam toppers. I don't think I would be a candidate for an all latex mattress as hard as it is for me to just get toppers to work. My theory is your hips do have to finally land on something to sleep, you can't just float in air. LOL, I wish I could. This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Go here and read all about what a real expensive mattress costs and what it is made out of. Read it and weep. http://www.hastens.com/en/THE-COLLECTION/ read the whole website. If you want to read the extremes to which a member of this forum will go read, Jimsocal's posts about his adventures in trying to construct a innerspring mattress to suit his needs, they will be worth your time. Realize that the people who make handmade innerspring mattresses did not come to their conclusions swiftly or easily. And after reading the information on the website I posted you should understand...... that they do not do it cheaply either. We always have dreams about getting the perfect mattress for cheap. Some people accomplish this. But when you consider the fact that we are all built differently, have different needs, and different aspirations regarding a mattress, then it should becomes clear to you that this is no easy process. What you are going through, many, many, people have experienced it all before. I am still trying to get my latex bed just right. The problem is for people like me who are older and have a bad back, or people who are younger and have multiple physical difficulties, is the fact that our bodies change over time. It's very, very, difficult to get a mattress configuration that feels great all the time. About the time you think you have adjusted it right, something happens and you're back to wondering what you can do to make things better. I truthfully believe that once you get a mattress to the point that you are satisfied 85% of the time, or thereabouts, you had better leave well enough alone and enjoy that 85%. This message was modified Dec 21, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Recalling that on the soft side of my bed I have a medium piece, over a extra firm piece, over and extra firm piece. This is the side my wife slept on. My daughter slept on the firmer side of the bed that is firmer... firm, over firm, over extra firm. My wife weighs 115 pounds and is 5’ 2” my daughter is 135 pounds and 5’ 7”. My wife thought the bed was to firm, and my daughter thought it was about right. Just goes to show you the difference a few pounds can make and how those pounds are distributed. I was particularly curious how my daughter would like it as she can have a hip discomfort if the bed is not correct. She liked it! I am so glad that I found FloBeds and bought their mattress. This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hello eagle2! Well, I just joined this forum after spending many hours reading all of your posts which I am very appreciative of. Thank you! I am about to purchase a latex mattress but admit I only started my detailed research in the past few weeks. I have spoken to both SleepEZ and FloBeds and agree with you that FloBeds might be the best "fit" for us because it appears they are the ones that started the 90 day guaranty process. Wish they offered free shipping as does SleepEZ but that would not be a deal breaker for us. Also, it appears as though their mattress cover may be of higher quality. (How did you like it and did you put another mattress pad on top of it?)But I sure could use your help because from the bit of research I've done, I have received some conflicting info and it seems that you are as detailed in your research as I would be if I had just a bit more time. However, I have to purchase this bed by 12/31 because of health/prescription/tax deadlines as my husband has several herniated cervical discs and needs an adjustable bed to support him properly, especially when his neck "goes out." I, for one, am thrilled at this opportunity to get a new bed because I have my own set of physical issues and have sleeping in pain for years frustrated that my $2000 bed lasted barely five years! Firstly, I see that overall you found the natural Talalay to be denser and more supportive. I don't think I saw much commentary from you regarding the life of the natural v. the blended. When I spoke with SleepEZ, they said the natural only lasted about 10 years; when I spoke with FloBeds they said that the only difference between the two was about being "green" and that they both felt the same and had the same warranty. So, now I am confused. I realize that the all natural has not been out that long but was wondering what you thought? (It seems I also read somewhere that the natural was denser as you said, but felt softer and reacted to body pressure a bit more so that maybe over time this could be an issue and break up quicker? Forgive me if I mixed up any info here...there was a lot of info to absorb in the pages and pages of this forum! Also, I was a bit surprised at how quickly FloBeds told me what mattress I needed based on body weight and size (same as your daugther's for me) without listening to my preferences. He originally suggested a medium/medium with the medium VZone I believe for me but changed it to medium /firm when I insisted i liked a very firm mattress with a bit of a "soft" feel on top. Yesterday, when we bought our adjustable foundation locally (at both FloBed's and Sleep EZ's suggestion I might add...both were very honest about the practicality of that)...I tried a Latex International mattress which was blended Talalay which the local store relabeled as "firm,"and I really liked it...I also tried the ultra firm and liked it as well but it might have been just a bit too hard, not by much though. They categorized their mattresses into 4 groups: soft/medium/firm/ultra. Silly me, I forgot to check the ILD of them which I can still do but I must admit..I haven't gotten so educated on understanding the subtleties (sp?) of yet but don't have much time. However, this convinced me that my instincts were right about wanting a firm mattress. Any input or suggestions? I am also wondering that since the FloBed was so customizable, is it even necessary to go with the VZone? (My issues are mainly hip and shoulder (tendinitis in both) which is why it sounded like a good idea. I know you felt that that might just add too much more work to manager/figure out..but at one point, I also think you stated that if we could truly get a custom fit, that would be closest to perfect. And I am thinking that the VZone almost does that. Also, since you experimented with the different cores so much, I was wondering what you might think of the VZone purely from an engineering point of view? I.E. Could all the extra pieces possibly affect the stability of the mattress by feeling where one piece stops and the next one starts or are they so tightly together in the case that that is not an issue? Ok..last question...why did you pick the 4 layer instead of 3? Sorry for all the questions but if you can find the time to reply soon, I would be most greatful!! Thanks so much!! TJ |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I hope I have configured my response TJ in the best fashion so as to make that response intelligible. Hello eagle2! Hello. Well, I just joined this forum after spending many hours reading all of your posts which I am very appreciative of. Thank you! You are welcome, thank you for the compliment. I am about to purchase a latex mattress but admit I only started my detailed research in the past few weeks. I have spoken to both SleepEZ and FloBeds and agree with you that FloBeds might be the best "fit" for us because it appears they are the ones that started the 90 day guaranty process. Wish they offered free shipping as does SleepEZ but that would not be a deal breaker for us. As I recall FlowBeds shipping was quite reasonable, about $140 from Firstly, I see that overall you found the natural Talalay to be denser and more supportive. I don't think I saw much commentary from you regarding the life of the natural v. the blended. When I spoke with SleepEZ, they said the natural only lasted about 10 years; when I spoke with FloBeds they said that the only difference between the two was about being "green" and that they both felt the same and had the same warranty. Did you speak to Dave or Dewey? Dave is the owner and Dewey is his son. I think you are overly concerned about years of use. I have heard estimates, on all natural rubber, out to the 50th year. I think a lifespan more in the neighborhood of 20 years would be much safer and more realistic. But I do not believe that this should be your primary concern as they are going to last a very long time, whether a blended bed or an all natural bed, much longer than any innerspring mattress last, at least that is my understanding based on my research. So, now I am confused. I realize that the all natural has not been out that long but was wondering what you thought? (It seems I also read somewhere that the natural was denser as you said, but felt softer and reacted to body pressure a bit more so that maybe over time this could be an issue and break up quicker? Forgive me if I mixed up any info here...there was a lot of info to absorb in the pages and pages of this forum! I found in my limited experience that the all natural with its greater density, to give me more support from a less firm piece of latex than the blended piece did. Also, I was a bit surprised at how quickly FloBeds told me what mattress I needed based on body weight and size (same as your daugther's for me) without listening to my preferences. He originally suggested a medium/medium with the medium VZone I believe for me but changed it to medium /firm when I insisted i liked a very firm mattress with a bit of a "soft" feel on top. You did not stipulate as to your height and weight. But as I indicated in my last post my daughter at 135 pounds and 5’ 7” found the firmer side of my bed (F/F/XF) to sleep well for her. My wife at 5’ 2” and 115 pounds found the softer side of my bed (M/XF/XF) to be too firm for her. You have to take into consideration not only height and weight but personal preference. It's just one of those things you'll have to work out for yourself after giving it a pretty good guess initially when you are ordering. But that's the beauty of FloBeds and their unlimited exchange and quite reasonable shipping charges). Yesterday, when we bought our adjustable foundation locally (at both FloBed's and Sleep EZ's suggestion I might add...both were very honest about the practicality of that)...I tried a Latex International mattress which was blended Talalay which the local store relabeled as "firm,"and I really liked it...I also tried the ultra firm and liked it as well but it might have been just a bit too hard, not by much though. They categorized their mattresses into 4 groups: soft/medium/firm/ultra. Silly me, I forgot to check the ILD of them which I can still do but I must admit..I haven't gotten so educated on understanding the subtleties (sp?) of yet but don't have much time. However, this convinced me that my instincts were right about wanting a firm mattress. Any input or suggestions? I am also wondering that since the FloBed was so customizable, is it even necessary to go with the VZone? (My issues are mainly hip and shoulder (tendinitis in both) which is why it sounded like a good idea. I know you felt that that might just add too much more work to manager/figure out..but at one point, I also think you stated that if we could truly get a custom fit, that would be closest to perfect. And I am thinking that the VZone almost does that. I personally would not want to have had to deal with a V Zone mattress as there are too many conflict experiences for me. Also, since you experimented with the different cores so much, I was wondering what you might think of the VZone purely from an engineering point of view? I.E. Could all the extra pieces possibly affect the stability of the mattress by feeling where one piece stops and the next one starts or are they so tightly together in the case that that is not an issue? You would have to talk to Dave Turner about this as I have no experience, but I believe Dave told me that he sleeps on a V Zone as he has shoulder problems. Ok..last question...why did you pick the 4 layer instead of 3? It just seemed like a mattress that would give me the flexibility that I wanted so that I could make sure that I had a configuration that would suit me over time Sorry for all the questions but if you can find the time to reply soon, I would be most greatful!! Thanks so much!! You are quite welcome and I believe if you will talk to Dave Turner he will be able to help you find a configuration that will be satisfactory for you. The reason I like FloBeds so much is that not only do they have a really great exchange policy, the best in the business as far as I have been able to ascertain, but they have shown me, and many others, the kind of excellent customer service that makes doing business with them quite pleasurable. This message was modified Dec 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks for replying so quickly eagle2! I spoke to Dewey so I guess I will ask for Dave when I call back. As far as firmness goes, I am the same exact height and weight as your daughter. Interesting that she liked the F/F/XF since Dewey originally wanted to put me in a med/medmed and then upped it to med/firm/med when I insisted I liked a firm bed. I think that he might have only heard that I am a side sleeper when in fact, I like side and back sleeping. Since we are going with an adjustable base I suspect that I will be doing a lot more back sleeping because the feeling of having your legs elevated is pretty amazing when you have a good mattress under you. It also takes a lot of the pressure off of your lower back. So, I will see what Dave says and about the VZone as well...I definitely hear ya when you mention it's a lot to manage and since I alread obsessively compulse on perfection, perhaps it's a dangerous option for me! As far as worrying about the quality..yes, I do fully believe the latex will last a long time... it's just that I got so frustrated at having the top two dealers giving me completely different stories on this subject. Doesn't make it any easier to make a decision! I'll let you know what I find out this time... Again, thank you! (P.S. Are you sure you don't work for Flo?! You definitely are such a great supporter...they should be paying you a referral fee! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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"(P.S. Are you sure you don't work for Flo?! You definitely are such a great supporter...they should be paying you a referral fee! Just kidding!" No I sure don't work for FlowBeds. I have been accused of that by someone who was not being complementary, but rather accusatory. I am just an old retired guy living on social security and Medicare, an ex-salesman. I was in sales for over 30 years and had a territory covering the central part of the United States. The last 15 of those years I was a traveling factory representative for industrial containers to the petrochemical industry . My approach to selling was very simple. Sell something you believe in and tell the truth about it. Therefore the product had to be a good product and one that I would be willing to purchase myself. This certainly applies to FloBeds because that's exactly what I did, I bought their mattress. I can appreciate this company because it is run by the man who started it 30 years ago. David Turner is a throwback to the way business used to be run. I will add this. If the FloBeds did not exist I would probably purchased from SleepEZ as I feel they make a good bed and have the next best exchange and return policy. I grew up in the 40s and 50s and to some extent the 60s, although by then I was married and had children. I was raised in a small Midwestern town where there were a lot of companies like FloBeds. But they're pretty hard to find today. Today we rely on 24/7 TV advertising where the little man comes marching out on the screen dragging a banner ad behind him, while you're trying to watch the regular program that you're paying the cable or satellite provider $60 to $100 per month for. Disgusting! I hate it. Yes talk to Dave, while Dewey is an excellent young man, and will certainly help you in a professional manner and is quite knowledgeable, Dave has more experience. But how many companies do you call today and get a live human being, let alone the person who actually started the company many years ago. This is the only one that I have found. This message was modified Dec 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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It was only meant as a compliment! As far as your background, that explains why I was so drawn to your advice. I, too, am in sales and unlike others who are, I am 100% honest and ethical (I also have a legal background, so ethics is so important to me). I get berated by my peers because I spend so much time trying to understand all the little details (which I feel I need to do more so because I sell technology) so that I can better explain and represent to my customers, while others just want to get it over with. Like you however, I cannot sell something that I do not think is a good product. And although I grew up in the 60's, I am right with you when it comes to sales, commercials and the way it used to be! Yeah, I guess it's a sign.. :)...I keep saying I am ready to retire! I wish! As far as Dewey, I think you hit the nail on the head..very polite and helpful...but not quite as detailed or interested in developing the best solution as we would have liked him to be. More so, because I think we might have some limitations to consider with an adjustable bed (sheets staying on mattresses, finding good quality twin XL fitted sheets that stay on, etc.) and then...just the old aches and pains that we need to address individually to make sure we are getting as close to the right solution as possible. One question you didn't answer...what made you go for the 4 layer v. the 3? With the natural Talalay, that's a 12" mattress...I would imagine you might have some sheet challenges too...even without adjustable issues. Thanks! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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TJ12 wrote: It was only meant as a compliment! As far as your background, that explains why I was so drawn to your advice. I, too, am in sales and unlike others who are, I am 100% honest and ethical (I also have a legal background, so ethics is so important to me). I get berated by my peers because I spend so much time trying to understand all the little details (which I feel I need to do more so because I sell technology) so that I can better explain and represent to my customers, while others just want to get it over with. Like you however, I cannot sell something that I do not think is a good product. And although I grew up in the 60's, I am right with you when it comes to sales, commercials and the way it used to be! Yeah, I guess it's a sign.. :)...I keep saying I am ready to retire! I wish! As far as Dewey, I think you hit the nail on the head..very polite and helpful...but not quite as detailed or interested in developing the best solution as we would have liked him to be. More so, because I think we might have some limitations to consider with an adjustable bed (sheets staying on mattresses, finding good quality twin XL fitted sheets that stay on, etc.) and then...just the old aches and pains that we need to address individually to make sure we are getting as close to the right solution as possible. One question you didn't answer...what made you go for the 4 layer v. the 3? With the natural Talalay, that's a 12" mattress...I would imagine you might have some sheet challenges too...even without adjustable issues. Thanks! TJ said: "It was only meant as a compliment!" Yes I know. "One question you didn't answer...what made you go for the 4 layer v. the 3? With the natural Talalay, that's a 12" mattress...I would imagine you might have some sheet challenges too...even without adjustable issues." The reason for the four layer, versus the three, was the fact that I wanted the greater flexibility to change my mattress configuration without having to resort to an exchange. Even with this many layers I still had several exchanges, since like you, I tend to be rather picky. I have not had any sheet problems since the three bottom layers are 3 inches tall, and the top layer is a convoluted layer that is 2 inches of soft Talalay that is quite malleable and adaptable to sheets. FlowBeds is somewhat more expensive than SleepEZ, but they have a more liberal exchange policy, so I consider the additional price to be an insurance policy. Another thing about SleepEZ that troubled me somewhat, was the fact that they seem to be more inclined to promote the blended product. Now there's nothing wrong with the blended product. It is less expensive, and it may prove to be more durable in the long run. But the natural product just appealed to me and given the limited experiment that I performed I believe I will be more satisfied with it over the long haul. There are three principal companies that seem to get the most attention on this site. FloBeds, SleepEZ, and Savvy Rest. there is also Foam Sweet Foam and Habitat. They all have somewhat different approaches to latex mattresses and different exchange and return policies. As I have stated over and over again, as far as I know, FloBeds has the best exchange policy, and an equal return policy, except for Habitat, who has no exchange policy but a six month return policy. And you have a very limited choice of configurations with this company. But they do have an excellent website with videos for explaining natural 100% botanically grown latex. The top three that I have mentioned have many satisfied customers on this form. You will just have to read their websites, their various limitations, their costs, and make your choice. This message was modified Dec 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hello TJ12, I don't visit this forum as often as others do, so I may have missed some of your posts (and those of others) so hopefully I'm not repeating what you already know. Anyway, I've had a natural talalay latex Flobed bed since June and am happy with it; it's the 4 layer one, with the top layer being a very thin convoluted layer. I would probably have gone with dunlop for the bottom 2 layeres if they had offered it, but they didnt'; and for other reasons I chose Flobeds over others I considered. You could do a search for my previous threads for further info re all this. I am about 5'6" and 130 lbs, and I have soft over firm over firm on one side and med over med over X-firm on the other. I have written in other posts what I need (due to pain and other health issues, i.e. soft on top but very supportive underneath) and what I like about each of those combinations. In figuring how soft or firm to go as Eagle said, it depends so much on one's individual needs and preferences. However, I will say that I think the "firmness advisor" on the Flobeds website perhaps errs on the side of softness, at least for my height and weight. Whether I put in that I slept on my back or side and whether I put soft or firm as a prefernce, it advised me to get some combination of soft and medium layer.s That would have been disasterously soft for my needs. Dewey did advise me to go firmer than this, but even that suggestion, which was soft, medium, firm was too soft for me in terms of support with talalay (I've slept on both talalay and dunlop, and dunlop feels much firmer due to it's higher density). I cannot comment on mixed talalay as I was only in the market for all natural, and that's all I have ever slept on. Previous latex beds have lasted ages for me. My 12+ old one is still fine (now in the second bedroom) but it was much too firm for my current needs, and was not reconfigurable. Older dunlop beds (when I was very young) never seemed to wear out. So I'm not so worried about the longevity issues. There's no comaprison between latex and innerspring or futons IMO, the latter not lasting nearly as long. Anyway, the great thing about Flobeds is that you can do exchanges easily and their customer service is exceptional. I'm sure they will work with you to get the best combination for you. Personally I did not liek the V-zone (one reason being that I do toss and turn quite a bit and did not want to feel concerned with being in the "right " place of the zone), but have heard others say that they really do....just goes to show how individual we all are. I think that there would be less need for it if you have an adjustable foundation, but that is just my opinion. Speaking of that, I first tried my new Flobed on my European slat foundation (mine is quite different form the one Flobeds sells, and I think may be springier as it is 2 layers; hence it is hard to compare) I had from my old bed, but found it made it too bouncy for my taste (but that was also when I was trying the softer layeres, i.e. soft, medium, firm). I switched to a firm slat foundation. At any rate, if you have an adjustable slat foundation, and prefer a firm feel, you may want to go firmer than someone else might. But please keep in my that these are my opinions only. I know Dave (and Dewey) have much more experience with various configurations (although each of us knows our own body best; trust you instincts!) As to 3 vs 4 layeres, I wrote about this in another post. Most companies told me that with my height and weight that I could get by with just 2 core layers (not inc top layer, sch as Flobeds, though not all companies have this additional top layer). However, I have tried the bed both ways and find a prefer it with the 3 cores, i.e. 4 layers, even thugh there is no way I can actually directly feel the bottom layer (whereas someone heavier might sink in to the extent that they could bottom out on a thinner bed). I do feel the added support though (and I would never want to go softer than firm on the bottom layer; I actually prefer the X-firm bottom layer, with med as the top 2 layers as long as I can sleep on my back. However, I prefer sleeping on my side, and then need a soft layer on top to alleviate a lot of nerve pain I have. The I sleep on the side with soft, firm, firm. If my husband sleep in the same bed, he's happy to sleep on whatever side I don't want! He can sleep on most anything.Also if ther are 2 poerople regularly sharing the bed, I think one has to go firmer thatn if you are on your own. This is also evident in their website "firmness advisor", and also makes good sense. Also depends on the other person's size. Hope this helps. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thank you Linda and eagle2 (again!). Both of your last posts helped tremendously. I called Dave today (and by the way eagle2, he said to say hi to you! :) That was hysterical...I made mention of the fact that I heard the natural Talalay was denser and more supportive, a comment which he let slip by the first time but by our second call we were old buddies and he slipped in the "hi to eagle2" comment! He said that the moment I had made that remark, it was a giveaway that I had been in touch with you....as you were the only one who had presented that feedback to him. Anyway, you were right to recommend that I speak with him...he was tremendously helpful..and yes, he does have a VZone and loves it, as well as an adjustable bed so he was able to help with the questions I had there. With my hip and shoulder issues, he also recommended that I try the VZone, which of course, he said I could always change later if I don't like it. Linda, your input helped as well, because I decided that I did truly want to go firmer so instead of the normal med/medium, Dave recommended the medium/firm...not as firm as your daughter's eagle2 but I decided to give it a try based on another mattress I had tried locally and the feedback I shared with him....and the VZone as well. So, the order is in....and I will have to be patient for a week until I receive it so I can see for myself how wonderful these mattresses really are. And you're right, they were a true pleasure to deal with. Definitely a throwback to better times of customer service. Thanks again! TJ12 |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| P.S. Forgot to say, I did go with the Natural Talalay. I hope to not to have to do this too often so we went for what we hope is the best although I realize it may be subjective. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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TJ12 wrote: P.S. Forgot to say, I did go with the Natural Talalay. I hope to not to have to do this too often so we went for what we hope is the best although I realize it may be subjective. I'm glad to hear that you made your decision. Based on my own personal experience I believe you will be satisfied with your choice. Talalay has proven to be quite adequate for me. I am of the type, and it sounds from your description of yourself that you are to, that will never be completely satisfied because I never did get to sleep on Dunlop. But from my experiences so far, and from everything that I have read, I do not believe that I have made a wrong choice. In the end, what is most important, is how well you sleep on your bed. As I have stated many times, for me at least, the gold standard is, "Do you look forward to going to bed, and do you hate to get out of the bed in the morning because you are so comfortable?" If you get up feeling refreshed and without any aches or pains due to the sleeping process, then you have a good bed. Keep us posted about your experiences. I am assuming that you bought a VZone bed. I am curious how it will work out for you. It is reassuring to know that you can exchange it for a standard bed if you do not like it. This message was modified Dec 31, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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This message was modified Jan 1, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| For those viewing this thread to learn more about Flobeds, I wanted to echo Eagle and everyone else who has spoken so highly of the company and Dewey and David's customer service. I ordered and tried a 100% all natural talalay latex bed with the v-Zone, and while it was easily the most comfortable bed I've ever slept on, I ultimately had to return it because it didn't suit my back (I have major back problems). I really wanted to keep it, so held on to it until the very end of my trial period hoping my body would adjust. Flobeds credited me for the full amount I paid minus shipping and pillows, (pillows are nonrefundable) -- even credited the custom frame they built for me and the v-Zone which they made to my specs. As you can imagine, I felt really badly about this particularly since they had spent so much time with me at the front end during the ordering process. In any event, as Flobeds continues to expand its fan base and maintain its flawless BBB record, its in the company's best interest to continue this virtual cycle, even from a purely practical perspective. So for anyone considering ordering from them, the risks are minimal and I could not recommend them more highly. I ended up going back to an innerspring -- am on a Shifman firm cotton mattress with low-gauge offset coils, which is super supportive but not very comfortable! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Sorry, all -- I seem to be having the same issue as a prior post-er with paragraph formatting. I indented in my original post but not showing up on the final post.I know it's a pain to read! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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One note should be recorded for those who are not used to this forum. If you are interested in reading the entire thread you're going to have to go to the bottom of the thread and click on the "ALL" word to see all of the thread. In a particularly long thread like this one, the owners of the forum have decided, and rightly so, to limit what is viewable. As a follow-up to my last post regarding the installation of the new firm layer I have this report. At first this firm layer on top of two extra firm layers felt as you might expect, quite firm. But after I have lain upon it for several nights it has become more comfortable. So my configuration is now left side of bed, F/XF/XF right-sided bid F/F/XF. The more I sleep on natural latex the more I am convinced that one's body heat tends to soften the structure of the latex so that it tends to cradle you after you have slept on it for a while. Some of this can possibly be due to psychological factors of course. But after having slept on a natural latex mattress for over 90 days now it is definitely my considered opinion. The ridge down the middle my bed, that I referred to in my last post, seems to have been eliminated, at least at this point in time. What was happening was the medium layer ( and as you may recall this is a very soft medium layer at 26.2 ILD) was riding up on the edge of the firm layer once I had rolled back and forth across the bed several times. Thus causing a uneven surface, and the ridge that I referred to. But so far having two firm layers on top seems to have cured the problem for now. This message was modified Jan 9, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hi, 1st time poster, though I have lurked for a bit and all I read convinced me to buy a Flobeds bed. We originally purchased a 9" memory foam from COSTCO and it was way too firm. Prior to that we had a 3" memory foam topper on a 10 YO mattress which we really liked. We were looking for something softer (I think) or at least more plush on top than the Costco bed. The Flobed finally came yesterday and I slept on it last night. (The wife is on the sofa due to recent foot surgery and can't yet navigate the steps up to the bedroom so it's giving me a few nights to tweak at least my side... The config I ended up with is Wife: soft/med/firm and Me: med/firm/x-firm. Though I think my side is too soft. I slept better on it than I did on the Costco bed we've been on for ~ 6 weeks, but my back was a bit sore this morning. I'm wondering if I should take the firm from her side and try firm/firm/x-firm? Also wondering how Eagle likes the f/x/x. I think the egg crate (convoluted) piece is giving me the nestling feeling I need and that I may need more firmness. I'm 5'11" and 182 lbs. Thanks for any suggestions in getting this dialed in (at least for me--will have to work on the wife's side next). |
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Faherty: if you read this entire thread then you know that I like sleeping on a softer configuration to begin with, but during the night and towards morning I like sleeping on a firmer configuration. Therefore I start out on the side with F/F/XF and wind up in the morning on the F/XF/XF side. Since you certainly have enough latex in different firmness you might reconfigure your bed to try this out. This whole business of what feels best for you is highly individualized,, as has been stated so many different time. Height and weight definitely play into the mix, but individuality, I am convinced, is the deciding factor. You will just have to try out the various firmness until you come up with something that is most comfortable for you. Like most people I have tried softer surfaces. I even tried a S/M/XF configuration. This was way too soft for me and caused back pain. A M/XF/XF worked pretty well for me, but I believe if I had to have a configuration that was the same on both sides I would probably go with a F/F/XF. Keep in mind I am 6' 2" and 210 pounds. Almost everyone likes a softer surface initially. But once they totally relax, if this surface is to soft it will not give sufficient support to your spine and consequently you will wind up stiff and sore in the morning. But since you bought a FlowBeds you have unlimited exchanges for 90 days. And FlowBeds will pay the freight bill to you and all you have to pay is the freight bill in shipping the layers back to FlowBeds. I always got my return UPS sticker from FlowBeds. I believe they get a better rate than anything I could negotiate. Which makes good sense to me since they do so much more business with UPS than I do. Good luck, keep us posted. This message was modified Jan 8, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Thanks for the quick response. I tried the f/f/x last night and liked it. My wife tried my side this morning and thinks it will be satisfactory for her as well--her side is too soft at present. I'm going to order the fillers to make her a f/f/x and another to try f/x/x for me. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I've been lurking quite a long time and I just wanted to say that the community on this thread and the overall site is outstanding! I have gleaned so much information from reading through this thread that my head is spinning. Since I am searching for my next mattress I am going to continue to engulf myself in all of this info and try to pick the right mattress for me. I know I am going to start by researching Flobeds, based on this thread and the exceptional customer service they provide. Right now I am sleeping on a 10 yr old serta innerspring that is awful and aggrevates my bad lower back daily so my search will have to be quick. I am already leaning towards latex or memory foam - tempurpedic. Thanks for a great forum and I look forward to participating in the future |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| meth: Welcome aboard. There are several companies that make good latex mattresses. FloBeds gets my vote for the reasons mentioned in this thread. But look them all over and then decide. And good luck with your search. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hi Eagle2 (and anyone else reading this blog... Well, I got my Flobeds on Thursday...sorry for the delay in responding and updating, been trying to get a handle on things. It's funny, when we first got the beds together, we passed out for hours immediately afterwards (at 6:15 at night)..I, on my husband's and he on mine...it was so amazing but nowI am having some problems adjusting. Also, I woke up with leg/thigh pains that night and the next day so I am not sure if falling asleep on my side with my legs elevated on my husband's "bed" (!) did it (yes, I know this sounds strange...but that adjustable bed is fantastic..really takes the pressure off of the lumbar area), or if it was my new mattress? What I ordered was the all natural/organic Talalay with VZone but they were out of the materials to complete the VZone layer and Dave insisted he ship me another layer at no cost to me (for returns either) until the VZone was ready this week, so that I would have something better to sleep on asap than on what I have now, as I was having a lot of hip and shoulder pains on my old mattress. This alone, for anyone out there reading this confirms what you (eagle2) have been saying..the service at Flobeds is simply amazing and for that alone I can't recommend them highly enough!! So..to the bed..I did tell Dave I liked a really firm mattress with a soft plushy feel on top..I had also purchased an adjustable base locally (Leggett & Platt) at Flobeds and SleepEZ's recommendation)...and tried a LI Talalay blended extra firm (6" 36ILD with 1" 24/soft on top and bottom - 8" total)..a pretty firm combination that seemed almost right...just needed to be plusher. With the multiple layers, Dave suggested I go for a VZone/M/F and my husband a VZone/Firm/XF (with the convoluted topper of course). In the meantime, we received two XF to add to our combo so we could have different variations to work with. My husband had put it together without me and so my bed ended up XF/M/F which was way too bouncy for me. He loved his XF/F/XF (even though I told him he should have made it as F/XF/XF!). I am 5'7" and 135 lbs and he is 5'8" and 200 lbs (very big boned rather than overweight so his 200 lbs is well distributed mattress wise.) When I finally kicked him off of his so I could try it per Dave's suggestion, I woke up with muscle pain in my lumbar area today. Ached all day. Tonight we, switched my XF to the bottom so that it is now (M/F/XF). I worry that with the XF off of the top layer, it will be even more bouncy but I am willing to try it. I am thinking that if this doesn't work, maybe I need F/F/XF...but I am open to any thoughts or recommendations out there. Apparently, the VZone comes in different firmnesses as well (based upon the firmness of the lumbar section I believe) and I would like to try to get that right if possible before it's shipped the first time. I think the intention was to send me a medium though. So, I'm wondering how much less "bouncy" a blended or a Dunlop would be for that matter . It seems that the few typical store selection latex mattresses I've seen are way less bouncy..I'm assuming they are probably Dunlop (and with tighter mattress covers as well i.e. not all natural fabrics)..and I did always want it a little more plush..but the way it was (until changing it tonight anyway) makes me wonder if I will keep sinking with time. Anyway, I welcome any input that anyone has to help me get through this process! Thanks! TJ12 |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Quite frankly TJ I am at a loss to understand your description of "bouncy." My California King is setting on a very firm pair of boxes left over from my waterbed. They are not slats, has normally described, but rather a solid piece of Formica over slats. This sets on a steel frame that has not only the perimeter for holding the mattress and box's but steel running lengthwise down the middle and also a steel piece running across the middle of the frame, supported on nine legs. This was necessary because the waterbed, with me in it, weighed over 1000 pounds. The point being that I have a very firm foundation. Possibly your bounciness is coming from your support configuration for your bed not being solid enough. All I can tell you is I have never experienced any bounce that amounted to anything. As I have stated before I am currently sleeping with one side of my California King configured F/XF/XF and the other side F/F/XF. So I am wondering if you have not got your bed too firm, and your foundation to springy.Again I am 6 foot two and weigh 210 pounds This business of having your arms and legs go to sleep on you may have something to do with your adjustable bed. I cannot help you in that area as I have not slept on one except in a hospital in 2004. But one thing's for sure, you've got a good man in Dave Turner who has a lot of knowledge and a strong desire to make sure you are satisfied with your bedding experience. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Hmmm...spongy? :) Well, you are right about Dave, I have no doubts there....I would think the adjustable bed provides pretty good support ..I know it has steel supports..I will have to check what the rest is and let you know. But the XF/M mattress I tried locally was on the same adjustable bed model so don't think the foundation is an issue. Don't think my side is firm enough though...and so I use the word bouncy...doesn't feel firm or bed like...spongy might be a better word after all. I will try it tonight (this am?!) and let you know...if I ever get to sleep, that is! Thanks! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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My first impression of latex was that it was a bit bouncy/spongy. In fact, I noted to Eagle once that I accidently dropped a weight on it and it bounced several inches. At first that bothered me a little, but I got use to it. It is a different feel from an innerspring, if that is what you are use to. I would not focus on that for now, since you will probably get use to that factor. As far as the vzone, I would probably not go with the medium unless you like a fairly soft bed. With the medium (at least the way they sent it to me), they put a soft piece under the hip area. I found that too soft. I even found medium too soft there, and shifted to a firm piece under the hips. I do like the fact that the vzone is softer under the shoulders. The trend seems for most people is that they end up liking a firmer configuration than they originally think. However, I think 100% natural XF on top for you (based on your weight) would probably be too firm. Lately I have been using XF/vzone (mainly firm)/XF. That is with blended latex though, which seems to have a lower support level from 100% natural. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks Sandman. Yes, I am used to coils but have hated them at the same time for years. Many years ago when I was really young and poor :), I slept on a high density foam mattress and really liked that. I haven't been able to find a innerspring mattress since (tried two) that maintained their cushy feeling for any length of time after that. As far as bouncy, yes, I believe I came up with that term because I had read about your barbell test! I did change my config last night to M/F/XF and that was better. I thought it would get less firm moving that XF to the bottom but it got firmer which is good. And I actually like a firmer mattress, contrary to what most expect for my size, but Dave recommended I start a little less firm so I went with his recommendation. I like your comments about the VZone though...they were going to ship me a medium but I'm pretty sure I want a firm ...the question is whether I need a softer piece in the shoulders and hips. (My problem areas.) Part of the problem I don't like now is the feeling that my hips are sinking into the "bouncy" :) mattress. It's better now but still has some room to go. I'm thinking of getting rid of the medium all together. So, why did you put your VZone in the middle? I'm wondering if I did that if I could handle a completely firm VZone v. customining some parts to be medium. Any chance you can tell me the differences you noticed between having it as the 2nd layer v. the 3rd (counting the convoluted as the top layer)? Thanks for your input! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I put the vzone in the middle to try a firmer feel. I believe that XF over F over XF will be firmer than F over XF over XF. It does mute the benefit of the vzone, so that is a negative. If you get a firm vzone layer, they will put a medium piece under the hips. If you don't like you hips sinking in too much, you might find even that too soft (I did). However, you can switch the firm piece under you legs with the medium piece under the hips to get a firmer feel under the hips. I don't think the firmness under the legs matters that much. I like have a softer piece under the shoulders, because that is the one part that get undercomfortable (for me) with a firm bed. You can look at this chart to see how they structure the vzone. It is a bit confusing, but I think you will understand it you study it for a while. http://www.flobeds.com/pdf/vZoneSpecs.pdf |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Good info Sandman! I did see the chart before but am studying it more carefully now...I think I want to custom pick how this goes. I will keep you posted. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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It has been a while since I reported in on my FloBeds experience. So I thoughtI would post this experience and observation. I purchased a new protective cover for my mattress. My old one was over 10 years old and was wearing out. It was a very thin cover but did a good job. The new one I acquired is 100% cotton and slightly thicker and of better quality than what I previously had. One thing of note is it had a longer skirt that allowed me to pull the cover quite tight and tuck in the skirt on the bottom of the mattress. I was trying to smooth out any wrinkles from the storage that the cover had endured. The point is that this new cover gave me a new sleep experience. I thought this information might be helpful to those who are dealing with firmness levels in their mattress. I found it quite interesting that even this slight difference in top layer made quite a difference in the way my mattress felt. It felt quite a bit firmer. It was as if I had increased the density of the latex. I thought this might be helpful to those who are fighting to get the proper feel from their latex bed, or any other bed for that matter. Just this slight change made a considerable difference in the way the bed felt. In fact it's going to take a little bit to get used to it, as I appreciated the old cover. I actually felt like I was sleeping more on top of the mattress with the new cover than the way I felt with the old cover. There was less sinking into the latex it seemed to me. I am assuming this is due to the fact that I was able to stretch the cover quite tightly over the mattress. As a side note for those who are fighting their cheap P/U foam on their innerspring mattresses. I had an occasion this afternoon to have a rather lengthy telephone conversation setting in a chair that normally does not get used that much. It is a very solid wood chair with some cheap P/U foam for a cushion. I would say that the foam is not more than 2 inches thick and probably less, possibly an inch to an inch and a half. The point being that my butt went totally to sleep on me and I had a tough time standing up. So I guess the point I'm trying to make to folks regarding their mattresses is..... it does not take very much of a top later change to make a significant difference in how a mattress sleeps, and cheap P/U foam (as JimSoCal is constantly pointing out) is a terrible material to use for cushioning. I am still sleeping on the left side of my FlowBeds configured F/XF/XF, right side of bed F/F/XF. And the bed is sleeping quite well. The more I sleep on my latex bed the better I like it. This message was modified Jan 27, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks for that update eagle2. Funny I have said my mattress cover made my latex topper unpleasant, I would get welts from them (very senstive). I would like to see the mattress covers you are talking about. Is there a link? Not sure what they are like. But I am finding with sheets even make a big difference. I tried jersey sheets (stretch) over a polyester plush blannket and am more comfortable that way. No it is not hot. I am not sure why, but it isn't. I tried every mattress cover the stores had to offer, they felt like concrete. Every time I try different sheets, like I tried cotton flannel the mattress felt totally different. Jersey sheets wear out in months though, but that is the price I am willing and have to pay. I am glad you figured your Flobeds and covers out. What sheets do you use? |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo3 wrote: Thanks for that update eagle2. Funny I have said my mattress cover made my latex topper unpleasant, I would get welts from them (very senstive). I would like to see the mattress covers you are talking about. Is there a link? Not sure what they are like. But I am finding with sheets even make a big difference. I tried jersey sheets (stretch) over a polyester plush blannket and am more comfortable that way. No it is not hot. I am not sure why, but it isn't. I tried every mattress cover the stores had to offer, they felt like concrete. Every time I try different sheets, like I tried cotton flannel the mattress felt totally different. Jersey sheets wear out in months though, but that is the price I am willing and have to pay. I am glad you figured your Flobeds and covers out. What sheets do you use? Leo: The wife did not purchase this cover online and I had a hard time trying to find something just like it. As close as I was able to come is this cover at Sears. All I know is that mine is 100% cotton fill, it has 100% cotton Expand- A- Grip, and the top and bottom are 100% cotton. So you could say this is an all 100% cotton mattress pad. It's machine washable and dryable. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_09606644000P?vName=Bed+&psid=FROOGLE01&sName=Various+Coordinates&cName=BeddingEssentials&aff=Y&sid=I0084400010000100600 I also sleep on all 100% cotton sheets. 200 or 300 thread count as I recall. I will know more after I have slept on it for several nights. One thing that Sandman might be interested in. At least initially the first hour or so that I lay on it it seems cooler than the old mattress pad. I am attributing this to the hundred percent cotton construction. Now, like I said, I have only slept on it for one night, so any conclusive perspective will have to wait until I've had more time sleeping on it. Any changes in my perspective I will certainly report. One other thing, this pad has a 10 year warranty This message was modified Jan 27, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, I have a 100% cotton mattress pad that I bought from Flobeds. It might be the same as the Sears one, because I think it is a Beautyrest. I did not find it made a significant difference in temperature (after a few hours), but it is not real thick. Lately I have been using the cotton one over a wool filled one by Natura. That might be slightly better temperature wise. I think the main factor is the thickness. To have a significant impact, there has to be enough thickness create a bit of a buffer. Less dense materials like cotton and wool will not hold as much heat as the latex itself (at least that is my opinion). It is a bit surprising that it seems firmer. Yes, a firmer top will make a mattress firmer - the latex will squish less sideways. Hard to see how a stretchable mattress pad would make it that much tighter, but maybe it does. It could also be that it is taking longer for the latex to warm up with a thicker pad. I think it does get a bit softer when warmer. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Sandman: I'm just guessing, since I've only slept on it one night, but I think that possibly the firmer feel comes from the fact that I stretched the pad as tight as I could and tucked in the skirt of the pad under the mattress. This was all in an attempt to straighten out any wrinkles that had developed due to being stored in its plastic bag. This did stretched the top somewhat and make it tight across the mattress. It is somewhat thicker than the old pad, but not by much. I must interject that the old pad was really thin and really wearing out ( as in used up). It's amazing how things like this can become quite comfortable as we have become so used to them, 10 years after all is a fairly long time. I should also add that the old pad was not 100% cotton. The bottom of the pad was some kind of synthetic material. The new pad is entirely 100% cotton. I will report back on the experience that I'm having with this pad when I've had more time to test it. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I wonder where did your wife find a 100% cotton mattress pad? I looked all over for one, we use to have one many years ago too. They just stopped making them where I live, and I couldn't find one online either. They always use polyester fiberfill now. That was why I though why not just the plush blanket I saw at Ross. So it is easier to wash than a stiff mattress pad too. If I were you I would either not pull the mattress pad so tight, or use the old one. Maybe you could iron the mattress pad (over the ironing board of course) to get those wrinkles out and put back on instead of pulling it so tight. I am sooooo picky, that I want to sink into the latex, not sleep over a mattress pad and sheet that pulls so tight you don't even know you have toppers to soften the hard mattress. I wondered how the Flobed mattress cover was, apparently it is such that you can still feel the latex. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| All the Mattress polyester pads made me hot so I now just sleep with a fitted sheet directly over the comfortable zippered mattress cover over my latex cores from FloBeds and I am happy. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I will post again the link I posted earlier to the Sears web site. It is quite close to my pad. It says 100% cotton!! http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_09606644000P?vName= Copy and past it. It works I just checked it! They say it is 100% cotton and then say it is filled with dreamloft fiber. So I don't know. They do not say if this is NOT cotton! This message was modified Jan 28, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Yeah, I saw the Sears link earlier, but I don't believe it is cotton fiberfill (batting) however. That is why I wondered where you found the cotton fiberfill, not polyester or whatever they called it. If it doesn't say cotton filling I don't think it is. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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If you go to the Flobeds website, they have 100% cotton mattress pads. They also have them on Amazon. http://www.flobeds.com/mattresspads.htm http://www.amazon.com/Newpoint-Organic-Cotton-Queen-Mattress/dp/B001IBHYQS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1264660350&sr=8-3 |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I took off the "protective cover" I had on my mattress, and I'm not using a pad. I know this doesn't really protect the zippered mattress cover very well, but anything that goes on the latex dampens the latex experience. This is the Flobed mattress pad: http://www.flobeds.com/product_details.htm?id=0916QU It is 100% cotton with cotton batting. If I were to try another pad, I'd probably get this. But I think I'm going to just have the sheet directly over the mattress. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Background (sorry, if you've already read it skip it): 60 yr old F, 5' 7", 128 lbs, side sleeper -- Fibromyalgia. Extreme pressure points in hips, (tingling, burning, numbness, pain). Currently sleeping on aTP Cloud Supreme... not really sure it's right for me. Still have 6 weeks before deciding to either exchange it for TP Rhapsody or get refund and start over. OR new option - try FloBeds and compare! I had tried an Englander Natures Finest Latex and was in so much pain on it, I had quit the idea of latex altogether because of it (I never was able to find the exact content of that particular bed). I admit, at the time I made that decision, I was totally ignorant about different ILD's, thicknesses, customizing layers, coverings, latex actually helping with pressure points, etc. That said, after reading all the reviews and threads here (you guys really are good!), checking FloBed's BBB rating and others, and comparing prices and refund policies with Sleepez, I've decided to call FloBeds. (Also, my son said no problem, he'll come and help with any heavy lifting. YAY!) My checklist of disclosures/ questions include the usual: Age, health etc. from above Overall height of mattress Exchange, return policy Warranty and what voids it Expected break in period if any Pricing for exchanges or refund return Type of mattress protector I can put on it - (the thing I hate about TP, choice of sleeping with only a bottom sheet, or on a thin piece of plastic backed noise) .... ... and then my mind went on overload and totally left me, (and it's way too little to be out on it's own!) I can just picture myself on the phone going, " Hello, ah, ah, ah". So I just finished reading this very extensive and very informative thread stated by eagle2 (kudos eagle!). Amazing info here which has answered a lot of my questions, but left me with "information overload". I will have to reread it again before I make the call and ask for "Dave". A few things I am especially interested in more information about: vZone - is it complicated? Natural vs Blended but only in regard on if you prefer a softer mattress, or is this even worthy of consideration? Is the FloBed cover tight? With the nerves in my hips even one wrinkle under me will wake me with a burning, searing pain. Hope you all had a wonderful weekend! Natalie This message was modified Feb 16, 2010 by Natalia
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Dear Natalie: Since you say you are 60 years old I would ask for Dave as he is closer to your age. Dewey, his son, is of course a much younger man. Us older folks ( I am 72) need all the empathy we can get. Dave is quite helpful and will be able to answer almost all of your questions I feel quite sure. Their cover is a very good one and does not have any wrinkles in it. But you may want your own choice of topper. I find the closer I can get to the latex the better I like it. However you do need something between you and the latex to allow for breathability, for lack of a better term. I doubt quite seriously a bed is going to answer all of your problems. But I feel that my experience with my FloBeds has brought me to as good a solution as I am likely to find. The most important thing, as I have emphasized, again and again, is to have someone like FloBeds working for you to make sure you achieve as good a configuration as is possible to aquire. These people seem willing to go to any lengths to have a satisfied customer. To be able to talk to the individual who owns the company without any machines taking your messages and promising to call back, etc. etc. etc., in and of itself is a great relief. But to have the people who own the company, who understand these kinds of problems and a desire to help is incalculable. I personally prefer the hundred percent natural latex. But the blended might work just as well for you, and it is less expensive. "So you payes your money and takes your choice." And don't worry about being all tongue-tied and lacking in knowledge. That's where Dave can come in. Possibly you would like the VZone I know that's what Dave sleeps on, and many here have claimed a preference for it. I just did not want to have that many choices to try and resolve. I bought the four layer 100% natural latex mattress and exchanged four different layers to get to the most comfortable configuration for me. You will just have to do your own experimenting. But with FloBeds help you should be able to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress. PS: To read all of this thread you are going to have to go to the bottom of it and hit the "ALL" button to be able to see all of it! This message was modified Feb 16, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Natalia, As always, I completely agree with eagle2. Call Dave...he will help you. You CANNOT beat FloBeds' warranty/exchange or return policy. As eagle2 has said time and time again...they are the most lenient out there. I do have the VZone because I have all sorts of pressure point issues and really like it. I find it pretty easy to get the feel closer to what you need/want by being able to move these pieces around. Still tweaking though. I have more info posted about it in the "Please help me figure out which Flobeds to Buy thread..." As an FYI, the cover fits really nicely and is luxurious in my opinion...with the issues you have with your nerves, you might not want to put a mattress cover on it as others have tried so there are no issues of fabric wrinkling. Good luck. TJ |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
Well, I did it! My new bed should be here no later than Monday. I'm excited and nervous at the same time. Dewey was very nice and helpful and thanks to you all I had a list of questions, but he really answered most of them before I could ask. Which was great because I don't do phone very well, and I did do the "ah... ah... ah.."  . I went with all his recommendations except for the vZone, which we decided I could upgrade to later if needed. So my new bed is:Natural Deluxe - Natural Talalay Latex Green Mattress Organic Cotton & Wool Cover Natural Talalay Latex Convolute Comfort Pad Both sides: Natural Talalay Latex Core-Soft Natural Talalay Latex Core-Medium Natural Talalay Latex Core-Firm I told him about how informed and extremely helpful you've all been, (though I think most of you spoke with Dave who was unavailable) Dewey was glad to hear about how impressed I was about this great forum. These large purchases always scare me, but he assured me if for any reason I didn't love the bed, I would only be out the shipping cost of sending it back, which is very reasonable. Eagle, you are so right about how reassuring it is to deal with the owners! I do realize no bed is going to cure my fibromyalgia and all the issues it creates, but I am hoping this bed will provide some relief and comfort... without all the rules the TP demands you follow. So, I'll have both the TP Cloud and Flobed here with over a month before the TP must go back. Thank you all again so much! Natalie This message was modified Feb 17, 2010 by Natalia
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Natalie: You most assuredly are welcome. I felt quite confident that once you had a chance to talk to the folks at FloBeds you would find all the assurance that you needed to make an informed decision. Welcome aboard! Keep us informed how it goes for you. You may have a question or two that someone here may be able to answer for you. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Natalie, I hope the bed works out for you! When you receive it, please start a new thread and share your experiences with you new latex mattress. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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KimberlyH wrote: Natalie, I hope the bed works out for you! When you receive it, please start a new thread and share your experiences with you new latex mattress. I agree with KimberlyH, Natalie. By starting your own thread you can have all your posts about your new bed in one place. While I welcome any and all of you posts here, this thread is getting quite long and it is better to have one where you can keep all the information regarding your new purchase in one place. Just go to the bottom of the main page of this forum and on the very right lower corner is the place marked "Post New Topic" click on that. In the Subject line put what ever you want, such as "Natalie's New Flowbed", or what ever pleases you. Then tell us your story, and "Away you go!" I appreciate all of your input! This message was modified Feb 17, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I thought it might be good to post a follow-up to my latest latex configuration change on my FloBeds. As I have reported elsewhere, due to installing some new electronic equipment for my stereo I had to do a lot of squatting behind my television cabinet. I should have had a stool of the proper height is set on, but unfortunately in the convoluted experience of checking and rechecking the equipment I wound up just squatting very low to get to this piece of equipment. I had developed a sore back some weeks prior trying to get back in some kind of reasonable shape once again. This pain had migrated to the lower part of my back and into the hip area and this pain was further aggravated by my squatting. It wasn't a real severe pain but it was annoying and troublesome. So I tried some stretching exercises and also decided to firm up one side of my bed back to its original configuration of F/XF/XF. I was able to do this because Dave Turner had been so kind as to let me keep a piece of medium latex that had been damaged in the original shipment. He told me to just hold onto it until I had satisfied myself with the proper configuration of my bed. So now I'm pretty much back to what I had for quite some time, that is, the right side of my bed is now F/F/XF and left side of my bed, the one I just changed, is F/XF/XF. That coupled with my very thin old wore out topper seems to make the best overall sleeping surface for me. The thing that I want to emphasize, and it has been discussed on this board time and time again, is how little some changes that we make to our mattresses can change the sleeping characteristics of our beds. the other thing that has been reported by many over a long period of time now, is how most of us start out with a softer mattress and gradually gravitate towards a firmer mattress. This is that individual thing that everyone just has to work out for themselves. In any event, I'm back to my original sleep experience, "I look forward to going to bed, and when it's time to get up in the morning I am reluctant to do so because I am so comfortable." This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Get yourself plenty of footstools, before your tear your knee meniscus if you haven't already. I can't squat anymore, I am only 51 years young. I did not get the surgery I was told I have to get. I did physical therapy. Those people who did do the surgery, they can't squat either I have noticed! I need to get some firm latex. I wish I could remember what XF and F is on Flobeds, but I can't! It iis different for other companies. Drives me crazy. Did your latex have stickers on ILD testing? This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo3 wrote: Get yourself plenty of footstools, before your tear your knee meniscus if you haven't already. I can't squat anymore, I am only 51 years young. I did not get the surgery I was told I have to get. I did physical therapy. Those people who did do the surgery, they can't squat either I have noticed! I need to get some firm latex. I wish I could remember what XF and F is on Flobeds, but I can't! It iis different for other companies. Drives me crazy. Did your latex have stickers on ILD testing? Yes Leo I have right knee problems also, had to quit tennis because of it. So I understand. Go here for flobeds chart on ILD ratings http://www.flobeds.com/mattspec.htm Some of the pieces did have the original LI labels, but not all. It depends how the piece is cut. They come in as 6" pieces and Flobeds slices then to 3" pieces. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: The thing that I want to emphasize, and it has been discussed on this board time and time again, is how little some changes that we make to our mattresses can change the sleeping characteristics of our beds. the other thing that has been reported by many over a long period of time now, is how most of us start out with a softer mattress and gradually gravitate towards a firmer mattress. This is that individual thing that everyone just has to work out for themselves. In any event, I'm back to my original sleep experience, "I look forward to going to bed, and when it's time to get up in the morning I am reluctant to do so because I am so comfortable." Hi eagle, I'm glad you're back to looking forward to bed . I wholeheartedly agree, the smallest change results in huge differences. Just the change from Percale sheets to Jersey was amazing to me. I'm finding mattress pads (I've tried so many), are as mind boggling as the mattresses themselves! I'm hoping I didn't error on the side of softness with my Flobed. Guess I'll find out soon enough, so expect to hear lots of questions from me. Natalie PS. I just got a star!!! This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by Natalia
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Natalie: Congratulations on your star! Don't worry about getting your configuration right to begin with. That's the beauty of going with FloBeds. we all have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it right. If you are right the very first time you will probably be in a very elite small group of folks. I believe you're going to really love your FloBeds. It arrives tomorrow doesn't it? It would be good if your husband was there to help you handle the pieces. It's not that they're so heavy, the all natural weighs somewhere between 27 and 30 pounds apiece on a king-size mattress. It's that they're so wobbly and hard to handle. You need to fold him up like a piece of paper in thirds. Wrap your arms around them and handle them like a stumbling drunk person. They can be very floppy and just hard to manage. This is compounded by the fact that it is fairly easy to tear latex. Not to worry, I haven't torn any yet, but it is always a concern and compounds the problems in handling each piece. So hopefully your husband will be there to manage the heavy lifting for you. Tell us how it goes. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo3 wrote: Thanks Leo! I'm no good at HTML. I wish this board would fix that proposition so that it is much easier to post links and such, so that they are "clickable" |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: The blended piece of firm latex arrived today. The first thing I noticed was that there was very little odor when I unpackaged the layer. It had a very slight chemical smell, and a very slight cookie smell, but the odor was much lighter than the original odor that I experienced when unpacking the 100% natural botanically grown latex. This odor would not be a problem for me, as whatever there is, since it is so slight, I'm sure will dissipate considerably over time. I noticed that the 100% natural latex on my bed has almost completely lost its slightly sweet odor. therefore I can say without reservation,as far as I am concerned, that I would not hesitate to purchase a blended piece of latex because of any odor that it might have. The major difference that I noticed was that the blended firm piece of 32 ILD latex seem to be softer than the firm piece of 32 ILD natural latex. My guess would be that the blended piece of firm feels more like a medium piece of natural. This evaluation is extremely subjective, and amounted to nothing more than simply pressing down on the two pieces of latex with both of my hands spread flat against the latex with some body pressure. I will just have to sleep on it for a while to be able to give any kind of a definitive comparison. So now, according to the ILD on the layers. On the right side of my bed I have a firm, over extra firm, over extra firm. On the left side of my bed I have what I had before, namely, firm, over firm, over extra firm. Again the new piece of firm blended is on the right side of my bed and takes the place of the medium piece of natural that I had their previously. After I have slept on it for several nights I will report back on my experience. I am still trying to figure out if I should get natural or blended for a XF piece, i.e. 34-38 ILD. I don't want a rock, I want support. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: You need to fold him up like a piece of paper in thirds. Wrap your arms around them and handle them like a stumbling drunk person. They can be very floppy and just hard to manage. Thanks for the laugh. I too fold the latex in thirds, and wrap my arms around them and handle them like a stumbling drunk person. LOL. I have moved mine back and forth into the closet, oh about a million times. Thus the sore back.This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo said: "Why did you get a blended piece of latex instead of your natural latex. Did you end up keeping this blended piece of latex. Did you notice it looks like more "air" blended in? The sides of the latex I could actually see air; can't explain it, but bubbles. I am still trying to figure out if I should get natural or blended for a XF piece, i.e. 34-38 ILD. I don't want a rock, I want support." Leo: I got the blended piece because I wanted to try it out (I did not keep it, I returned it Flobeds). There is so much written about this difference, so many differing opinions expressed that contradicted one another, that I just wanted to try it for myself. The blended is a good piece of latex. It is 70% synthetic and 30% natural. It is less dense than natural therefore it weighs less. And in my humble, and very limited experience, does not have the same feel and support that natural does. I believe it was Sean at SleepEZ who told me that if I were to buy blended latex I should purchase it one degree firmer than a natural piece. In other words if I felt I needed a firm piece of natural I should get an extra firm piece of blended. From my limited experience I would say he is correct. I just preferred the feeling of natural better. How much of this is psychological I cannot say. I believe Dave Turner told me that he sleeps on a blended latex mattress that is a VZone configuration. When I ask him why he told me that when he acquired it from Latex International this was all they were selling. And since he had grown used to it he was not going to go to the trouble of changing it out, that it slept quite well for him. Again it's a case of what you get used to. I think blended is probably an excellent product. I have yet to hear anybody say that they didn't like their blended so much that they turned it back and paid the difference in dollars for an all natural mattress. I'm sorry Leo, I can't recall what you said you were doing to your mattress to require one extra piece. So it's hard to give you any advice. I can tell you this however. When I changed out my bottom piece of extra firm natural for a very soft piece of medium natural ( the actual ILD of this natural medium piece was 26.2 measured by LI, although it was marked by FloBeds as 28 ILD)it made a significant difference to the overall feel of the bed. I had previously had a configuration that was F/XF/XF and changed it to XF/XF/M. this made a softer configuration than even the other side of my bed that I have at F/F/XF. So the bottom layer definitely can have an effect on how the bed feels. I think to make a blanket statement that "every layer has its effect" is a truism that needs to be kept in mind. I was thinking that only the top two layers really had that much of an effect on how the bed would feel. Wrong! All three layers are working all the time. (This is keeping in mind the fact that I have never change the topmost layer of 2 inch convoluted. Which is, (as has been pointed out previously by someone else), in effect really a 1 inch piece of latex. The little hills and valleys of convoluted simply flatten out to make what is actually equivalent to a 1 inch piece of soft latex foam.) I will just end with this Leo. At least for me there is a significant difference between each division of firmness. A soft piece is a really soft. A medium piece is firmer, but quite a bit softer than a firm piece. And then an extra firm piece is considerably firmer than a firm piece. This is beginning to sound like some kind of a word puzzle. I'm going to stop! This message was modified Feb 21, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Thanks Eagle, yes my head is spinning from trying to understand what you said. But, I do get it LOL. My mattress is an old filppable spring air, with O-stock 3" of soft??? latex (remember no ILD). I had tried some firm (too firm) pieces too. But all in all just figure I am starting over with a spring mattress that needs a topper. I can add some soft stuff to the layer I do buy. So I am still thinking XF 34-38ILD in blended then. Because from what you and everyone says that would be too firm in natural. Unless I got 32 in natural????? |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: Just thought I would add a side note to my ongoing experience with my FlowBed. I had requested an exchange of my firm piece of blended latex, for a firm piece of all natural latex. I was just comparing the shipping weight for the blended piece of latex compared to the shipping weight for the all natural that was shipped yesterday. There is a 7.6 pound differential between the blended and the natural. The shipping box for the natural weights 31 pounds, the shipped box for the blended weight 23.4 pounds. This is due to the difference in density between the blended piece and the all natural piece, both of them being rated Firm with an ILD of 32. This is the point I was trying to make with the PDFs that I posted from the Polyurethane Foam Association in my thread "What is more important ILD or Density of foam?". The way ILD is measured, and the density of the foam, are two different things. It would be very helpful if the people selling latex would give both the ILD measurement and the density measurement of the various types of foam. I was reading this "old thread" and wondered about the weight of the blended vs. natural latex you had talked about. Is that only 1/2 of the king size piece? Did you actually weight this yourself too? I find sometimes the weight on boxes isn't accurate (from O-stock anyway). This is very interesting reading by the way. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo3 wrote: I was reading this "old thread" and wondered about the weight of the blended vs. natural latex you had talked about. Is that only 1/2 of the king size piece? Did you actually weight this yourself too? I find sometimes the weight on boxes isn't accurate (from O-stock anyway). This is very interesting reading by the way. The best that I can recall Leo, the boxes were exactly the same. The difference in weight was due different density of blended ( 70% synthetic, 30% natural) and 100% natural latex. This was quite evident when I went to pick them up. The hundred percent natural is quite a bit heavier than the blended piece. These were half pieces. In other words about the size of an extra long twin mattress. The weights came from UPS. I'm assuming that they weigh their shipments accurately because it makes a difference in how much money they make. You can usually rely on figures, when if they get it wrong, they're going to lose money! There is just no question that natural latex is considerably denser than blended latex. I do not know from personal experience, over time, how this would play out of course. As I have stated elsewhere, David Turner, as best I can recall our conversation on the subject, sleeps on a VZone blended latex mattress. When I ask him why he prefers blended, he said, "This is what they were manufacturing at Latex International when I acquired my bed. They were not making 100% natural at that time." And Dave just did not want to go to the trouble to change the mattress. And since Dave Turner is willing to sleep on blended I would think that would end the debate on which is preferable. But for some reason, that I can't fully explain, I just like the idea of all natural latex. It would really be wonderful if some independent scientific laboratory would test for overall comfort, longevity, and bang for the buck, between 100% natural latex and blended latex manufactured by Latex International. But it's not going to happen, at least I have never been able to find anything on the Internet that comes close to this kind of an evaluation. So Leo, "You pays your money, and you makes your choice!" This message was modified Feb 27, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| The Natural Latex Cores are 3" thick while the Blended latex cores are 2.8" thick so maybe they natural cores feel heavier since they are thicker? I never tried any blended latex core except for the 44 ILD to 46 ILD latex cores so I can't compare a similar ILD latex core in the blended versus the natural. I just wanted to give some input before I head off to sleep. I just like logging on to read what is happening in the mattress world from time to time and to see if I can be of any help. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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eagle2 wrote: The best that I can recall Leo, the boxes were exactly the same. The difference in weight was due different density of blended ( 70% synthetic, 30% natural) and 100% natural latex. This was quite evident when I went to pick them up. The hundred percent natural is quite a bit heavier than the blended piece. These were half pieces. In other words about the size of an extra long twin mattress. The weights came from UPS. I'm assuming that they weigh their shipments accurately because it makes a difference in how much money they make. You can usually rely on figures, when if they get it wrong, they're going to lose money! There is just no question that natural latex is considerably denser than blended latex. I do not know from personal experience, over time, how this would play out of course. As I have stated elsewhere, David Turner, as best I can recall our conversation on the subject, sleeps on a VZone blended latex mattress. When I ask him why he prefers blended, he said, "This is what they were manufacturing at Latex International when I acquired my bed. They were not making 100% natural at that time." And Dave just did not want to go to the trouble to change the mattress. And since Dave Turner is willing to sleep on blended I would think that would end the debate on which is preferable. But for some reason, that I can't fully explain, I just like the idea of all natural latex. It would really be wonderful if some independent scientific laboratory would test for overall comfort, longevity, and bang for the buck, between 100% natural latex and blended latex manufactured by Latex International. But it's not going to happen, at least I have never been able to find anything on the Internet that comes close to this kind of an evaluation. So Leo, "You pays your money, and you makes your choice!" For some reason I thought I read that some vendors get quotes for higher weight boxes to get cheaper mailing rates??? I dunno. Anyway, since my latex from O weighed 11 or 12 lbs. it makes me believe mine is blended talalay then, because mine is EXACTLY 1 1/2" thick and twin XL. So now I know I truly do want natural talalay, I want DENSER. I swear mine is softer than it was a year ago. I have been messing with this for over a year now. Time for a change. You said: There is a 7.6 pound differential between the blended and the natural. The shipping box for the natural weights 31 pounds, the shipped box for the blended weight 23.4 pounds. This is due to the difference in density between the blended piece and the all natural piece, both of them being rated Firm with an ILD of 32. Since Lynn mentioned the .2" difference that might makes some difference in the weight, a little bit. But since mine was 11 or 12 lbs each and yours is 32 lbs and yours is twice the thickness of mine, but same size. I am just thinking out loud (written) that since mine weighs the same as your blended piece per inch that explains part of my pain. I think mine is 32ILD or so, because the 24ILD I have is too soft for my hip, but nice and soft for my shoulder. The other pieces I have to me seem 15% firmer, not much difference, but some. I am no good at math, just trying to guess what ILD to try next. This message was modified Feb 28, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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No. My piece of blended was 3" thick. I did not want to try a piece of latex that was less thick than my 3" natural because of the feel being different in the middle of the bed. So Dave looked around and found an old damaged piece of 5.6" blended that he could not make into two regular pieces of blended so he cut it into a 3" piece for me. Accept it folks. Natural is denser than blended, and thus heaver. For those who have not experienced Flobeds...they are very accommodating. Based upon my experiences, and the experiences of others reporting on this forum, I do not believe I would want to purchase my latex mattress online from anybody else. There are just too many variables to be worked out if you're very critical about how you want your mattress to sleep. Or even if you are like me, and some others on this forum, quite inquisitive about the possibilities of other combination's of latex layering. This message was modified Feb 28, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| When I had asked Dave for a 44 ILD Super Firm latex core, he had told me I would need two blended latex cores or my bed would not be level since the blended latex cores are 2.8" thick and the natural latex cores are 3" thick. I have not talked to Dave in ages but maybe I will email him and ask if Latex International changes their sizes? Eagle2, did you take out a tape measure like I did to confirm what you are saving that they are the same thickness? I tried one of the latex cores that was blended on one side and my bed was not level. I had to order two. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Lynn2006 wrote: When I had asked Dave for a 44 ILD Super Firm latex core, he had told me I would need two blended latex cores or my bed would not be level since the blended latex cores are 2.8" thick and the natural latex cores are 3" thick. I have not talked to Dave in ages but maybe I will email him and ask if Latex International changes their sizes? Eagle2, did you take out a tape measure like I did to confirm what you are saving that they are the same thickness? I tried one of the latex cores that was blended on one side and my bed was not level. I had to order two. Lynn: Reread what I said. The latex cores come in to FloBeds from Latex International in 6 inch slabs for natural, and 5.6 inch slabs for blended. What Dave did for me was locate a old damaged piece of blended that was 5.6 inches thick and cut a piece that was 3 inches thick out of this slab since he could not cut it into 2 good pieces of blended that would have been 2.8 inches thick. So I wound up with a 3 inch piece of blended. I know it was 3 inches thick because I laid it next to my 3 inch piece of natural and they were perfectly level. He wound up with a blended piece that was 2.6 inches that I am assuming he would have to sell as scrap, since it was already damaged anyway, or grind it up into latex pillows, which is what they do with a lot of latex that is too damaged to repair. At least this is my assumption. This message was modified Feb 28, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Eagle2, Dave is so accomodating and this just shows how he tries his best to make each FloBed buyer comfortable. Thanks for explaining how your blended latex was 3" but someone else that buys the blended latex will have a little bit more give in the cover due to the cores usually being 2.8" thick. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| We are returning our high end Thempur-pedic tomrrow after 86 days of trying to get use to it. I found it way to hot and I live in NH and keep the heat at 55 degrees, I can only imagine how it would be in the summer! I also did not find it inviting, to hard and I woke up everytime I had to change positions and climb out of a hole. My question is will I have the same type of experience with a Flobed? Is it also like sitting on a rock? Our last interspring mattress was terrible and prefer not to go back to one of those. Please help! |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
I just did, in the thread you just started. |