Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
| I'm pretty sure my mattress maker told me that the one inch 44 ILD talalay latex layer and the 45 HR high density PU foam 3/4" were very close in firmness. But wouldn't they still have a different sensation? Latex being more bouncy and firm PU being less so.<BR><BR>I think I've just about given up trying to make my latex layers (only 2 inches) work for me. I couldn't figure out why husband's side of the bed felt firmer than mine. I swear mine seems to compress throughout the night and yet when I open my mattress I don't see any sagging or compressions. That includes the coils. But my husband's side didn't seem to be quite that way. Well, I opened his up and found NO latex inside! I had forgotten that I took the two 44 ILD layers and one 45 ID PU foam. He, on the other hand, had three layers of PU foam. 55, 45 and 45. Coils, too. No wonder if was firmer!<BR><BR>So, I kept the 55 PU foam in both of our mattresses and sandwiched the 44 ILD between the 45 PU foam. The 55 is the base over the coils ending up with the highest layer the 45 PU foam. We shall see how it works tonight! If my back is still sore, I plan to order two more layers of HR PU foam in 45 and 55 and we can both forget the latex! I'll keep it around just in case. <BR><BR>I really am beginning to wonder if my back and latex make a good match. I'm doubting it. |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
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Good question BeddyBye, and one I have been wondering about myself. I'm sure they do feel different, even if they are the same IFD. I think we might gain some insight if we also knew the 65% IFD rating for each foam, which in turn would give us the "support factor" (also known as "deep down support") for each of the foams. Resiliency (measured by the ball rebound test) is something else that will affect the feel, but alas, we don't know those numbers either. I have been trying to understand this mystery of why some people just can't seem to get happy with latex. The numbers all say latex should be the ultimate mattress material, numerically superior to nearly any polyurethane foam in pretty much every category. And yet, some people just can't do latex. It's a mystery. I have been entertaining the idea of using a layer of 3.0 lb HR foam of something North of an ILD 44 for the bottom layer of my mattress. The price is reasonable, and a foam of this density should last for 10 years without significant degradation. This message was modified Sep 20, 2007 by haysdb
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Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
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Where do you think you might purchase the HR foam? If my mattress guy can't sell it to me for a price I feel is reasonable, then I plan to buy it online IF I decide to use all PU foam and nix the latex for now. All I would need is one more 45 and 55. (The 55 is light yellow and the 45 is a turquoise type of blue.). I wonder if it's always sold in those colors to differentiate the IFD. Anyway;I can buy up to 1" thick in order for three of the layers to fit inside my mattress over the coils. The other two are 3/4"; thick. I might just do that if this new configuration I just created doesn't work. I'm hoping with the 44 ILD latex sandwiched in between the two PU layers, I won't feel the latex against my back as much. We'll see! I did put a fiber topper called the Cuddle Bed on top to soften it up a bit.<BR><BR><BR> haysdb wrote: Good question BeddyBye, and one I have been wondering about myself. I'm sure they do feel different, even if they are the same IFD. I think we might gain some insight if we also knew the 65% IFD rating for each foam, which in turn would give us the &amp;amp;quot;support factor&amp;amp;quot; (also known as &amp;amp;quot;deep down support&amp;amp;quot;) for each of the foams. Resiliency (measured by the ball rebound test) is something else that will affect the feel, but alas, we don't know those numbers either.&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;I have been trying to understand this mystery of why some people just can't seem to get happy with latex. The numbers all say latex should be the ultimate mattress material, numerically superior to nearly any polyurethane foam in pretty much every category. And yet, some people just can't do latex. It's a mystery.&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;amp;lt;BR&amp;amp;amp;gt;I have been entertaining the idea of using a layer of 3.0 lb HR foam of something North of an ILD 44 for the bottom layer of my mattress. The price is reasonable, and a foam of this density should last for 10 years without significant degradation. This message was modified Sep 21, 2007 by BeddyBye
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Where to buy HR PU foam
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FoamOrder - Pelma Everflex V54, 3.2 lb, 45 ILD FoamOnline - 3.0 lb HR, 44 or 55 ILD Both offer it in whatever thickness you want, in one-inch increments from 2" to 8". |
Re: Where to buy HR PU foam
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Wow, that was fast! You must be out on the West coast like me! Thank you!<BR><BR> haysdb wrote: FoamOrder - Pelma Everflex V54, 3.2 lb, 45 ILD<BR><BR>FoamOnline - 3.0 lb HR, 44 or 55 ILD<BR><BR>Both offer it in whatever thickness you want, in one-inch increments from 2" to 8". |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
| Many of the upholstery supply sites have HR foam. I bought some pieces from rockfordsupply.com to use in one of my experiments. The price of the foam was reasonable; the shipping charges were not. You might get some ideas by looking at this page, even though they don't seem to have the ILD you are looking for. http://www.rochfordsupply.com/buyersguide_foam.asp |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
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Maybe I could talk Dewey into sending me a set of latex samples, and then dig up some samples of HR foam somewhere. I would like to get some sense of how the different foams "feel". It's just one of those "inquiring minds want to know" things for me. I did some searches to see if I could find some beds made with super firm HR foam, and didn't really find much except that some of the ILD 50 and 55 stuff is used for a "deep down support" bottom layer. I do question how PU foams can be any more supportive than latex (for equal ILD), just based on the numbers for density and "support factor". Latex is a 4.4 to 5 lb density, with a support factor of 2.5, 2.6, somewhere in there. Even the high quality PU foams are 3.0 to 3.2 lb, with support factors 2.2-2.4. And keep in mind, not many mattresses are being made with this quality of PU foam. This is a "premium quality PU," which is somewhat of an oxymoron. Latex can be soft and yet has a "deep down support" that typical PU foams can't match. Something interesting in the way of psychology is that my first impression of my ILD 38 core was that it was "too soft." But after a few days, when I lay down on it now, it feels very firm. What happened? Dewey at FloBeds told me that most of his customers have the same initial reaction: "it's too soft," but it's just the different feel of latex vs. an innerspring mattress. Something else interesting is that 3 layers of the 38 feels firmer than 2. I think this comes back to something I read about ILD testing, that thicker samples will have a higher 25% ILD. A 5.6" core will have a higher ILD at 25% than would a 4" thickness of the same material. |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
| I don't know why my lower back is suddenly starting to hurt again. It's not just sporadic anymore. It started after we got back from a 2 night trip to Mendocino. We slept on regular mattresses (no latex). One was very comfortable. The other not as much so. But, now ever since then my mattress at home has caused my lower back to hurt. I've tried tweaking the layers to no avail. I'm going to take out my last latex layer and see if that helps. I do have a fiber topper which is sooooo comfortable. I sure hope I won't have to take that off! It's only been there a few days, but the back pain started long before. Gee, all I want is a painless night of sleep! I'm hoping 3 layers of high density PU foam over the medium support LuraFlex coils will work. If not, I'm at a loss. I can't afford another mattress, especially if I have no guarantee that's even the main problem. <BR><BR>Do you think sitting at the computer for hours can cause lower back pain? Am I blaming my bed when it's really SITTING that is causing the problem??? Hmmmmm.... |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
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I think the two are related, but a mattress should allow your back to recover during the night, not make it hurt. I have heard it said that if your back hurts, blame you back, not the mattress, but that's a cop-out on the part of the mattress industry IMO. There is a reason chiropractors recommend some mattresses and not others. It seems to me that you would only want maybe 4" of foam over a set of coils. I have nothing to back that up, it's just "intuitive". More than that and the springs can't do their job very well. I'm going to see about getting some samples of HR foam. |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness--to haysdb
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haysdb wrote: I think the two are related, but a mattress should allow your back to recover during the night, not make it hurt. I have heard it said that if your back hurts, blame you back, not the mattress, but that's a cop-out on the part of the mattress industry IMO. There is a reason chiropractors recommend some mattresses and not others.<BR><BR>It seems to me that you would only want maybe 4" of foam over a set of coils. I have nothing to back that up, it's just "intuitive". More than that and the springs can't do their job very well.<BR><BR>I'm going to see about getting some samples of HR foam. <BR><BR>Besides the coils, I have only 2 and 3/4 inches of HR PU/latex. Then the lightly quilted cover. So, the coils are definitely doing their job...I hope! I agree that someone's back shouldn't hurt as a result of sleeping on a particular matttress, unless it's hopelessly sagging or not doing its job anymore. Mine isn't quite a year old and I have quality interchangeable "parts", and that includes the zippered cover. So, I know it has something to do with the configuration of this mattress. I'm starting a new thread regarding innerspring coils and something that I'm going to experiment with starting tonight. That might be my answer right there.... |
Re: Latex ILDs compared to High Resilience PU foam firmness
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Does your HR PU foam feel softer in the middle than at the edges? If so, it is shot. That could be stressing out your back. Foam (or any mattress material) should feel consistent in firmness from edge to center and to the next edge. Even if a crater is not seen, if softness can be felt, the material is shot. This message was modified Sep 23, 2007 by MequonJim
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