Mattress Forum

I too experience the latex seems soft when I push on it too, and it feels hard on the hip.  Maybe Budgy can explain that one.

It wasn't glued very well.   Most of it just pulled away with only minimal resistance.   In a few places it took a litttle more persuasion and tore away maybe 1/4" of the latex.   Fortunately these places were near the corners.   It definitely takes a little patience, and I can imagine it might be a real problem if there were more glue.

Don't know the ILD; I guess I should research how to measure it.

Yeah, I don't like some of the stuff I' reading about memory-foam (too warm in hot weather, hard to move around).   Maybe I should look at a topper of something else, like a lower-ILD latex like you suggest.    I'm still confused by the fact that my existing latex (from my dis-assembled mattress) feels so mushy to the touch, but too hard when sleeping on it.

I'm rambling, but that's how confused I am - please help !!

P.S. I should add that I'm 5'10" and 170lb, and am a side sleeper.

P.P.S.  It seems like it'd be REALLY helpful if I could determine the ILD iof my current latex.   Can someone point me to a thread that tells how to do a DIY measurement ?   Is it as simple as cutting a 50 square-icnh piece of plywood and weighting it until it deflects a certain amount ?   It was from an Englander "Latex Plus" mattress bought in 1998.

Kait

Thanks for weighing in, Kait.   If I don't mind spending a little more, do you think 1-2" of a low-ILD latex would be better than the p/u ?   If so, thoughts about Talalay vs Dupont or whatever ?

You can read about talaway vs dunlop online.  Supposedly they have different feels, but talaway is more consistent.  Most people say dunlop is firmer than Talaway.  Talaway does come in softer ILDs than dunlop.

I like the sound of the latex over p/u, but it seems a little silly to spend almost $600 (queen at FBM) when I already have a nice 6" slab of latex.

Last night, I laid my summer down comforter (maybe 1-2" of loft uncompressed) plus a fleece blanket over the latex, and I found it pretty comfortable.   I'm guessing that's probably equivalent to no more than 1" of a topper of some kind.   So maybe I just try 1" of a soft latex topper and I'll be happy.  Of course, if I'm right that I wasn't getting enough support when I still had the 1" eggcrate on my latex, I doubt if the same rig but with 1" latex would be much better in that regard.

If that's true, then I guess it's just saying that my 6" latex slab is simply too soft to serve as a base layer for me, and I DO need to start over as you suggest.

Adding a topper is probably the only way to spark some life back into that mattress. In regards to Visco-elastic foam toppers (memory foam/ tempur etc.), beware- they are infamous as the hottest sleeping surface material in the industry, as it is a heat-sensitive foam type that restricts when in contact with the bodies natural heat, allowing for the fine contouring & slow release of the foam structure- inturn, for this material to be effective it has to have no buffer (airlayer) such as a fibre pillowtop as this neutralises the effectiveness of memory foam, & due to it's tight polymer structure, cannot breathe nor ventilate the sleeping surface to dissapate bodyheat.

Good luck in searching out a topper, keep in mind- if it is latex, make sure it is both ECO certified & LGA tested latex, that way you will get a product that is 100% natural, extremely long lasting, pin-cored for maximised ventilation, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, dustmite free........ preferably covered in a breathable material (cotton, bamboo/cotton, tencel, ingeo)....stay away from rayon, dacron & polyester (too hot!).

Talalay techniques utilise catalyst chemicals to convert the polymer, leaving behind trace chemicals of the catalyst components. Also talalay will incorporate anywhere from 30%-100% synthetic latex foam which is a derivitive of the petro-chemical industry. It will also have  additives such as Ultra-fresh (organic tin compound) & Healthgard (sanitised treatment) to mimick the natural properties of natural latex.

It's a minefield out there!!!! Where brandnames mean nothing & retail cost mean even less when sourcing true quality materials. Certifications & testing are the only buyers tools worth trusting, that & thorough research.

I'm in a similar situation as you, but my latex mattress is new from SleepEz. 8.5 inches thick. currently on the floor as we try to figure out what foundation to get. 

I've tried various configurations of the layers using soft/med/firm, more firm, more soft, etc layers. it doesnt seem to make a difference - my lower back hurts all the time and my right shoulder has developed a very bad constant pain since sleeping on this mattress. i sleep in multiple positions - back, sides, semi-stomach.... 

the frustating thing is I sleep fine on an inexpensive firm, older innerspring Simmons at my Mom's house. no back or shoulder pain from it. i feel frustrated for spending so much money and doing so much research to end up w/a mattress that isn't very comfortable for me...

I'm also confused on what foundation - i'm getting conflicting info -  eg. needs to be on a slatted base vs. needs a solid surface, not slatted. which is it?????

the quality wood slatted foundations are expensive. so if you buy one and then have to add plywood over the slats what is the point.

can anyone clear this up?

Sorry, I meant I would suggest getting a latex topper rather than a regular foam topper.  I think ordering the 1 in of 20 from FBM is probably a decent bet.  You could get 2 inches if you think you need it, but if you start with one inch, you can see if you want firmer or softer and look into buying another inch - or fold the latex in half to see how 2 inches of the same would feel. 

Egg crate foam is only for adding a soft feel, it's pretty much completely unsupportive.  Even soft latex will provide some support since it pushes back, so you might like it.   

Hmm, sounds like you might need a zoned system, with a firmer topper under your butt and something soft for your shoulders.

And I too find the most comfortable mattress is at the beach house we've rented for several years - dunno if it's expensive or cheap.   I like the foam mattress in theory - it makes a heckuva lot more sense - but can't quite get it right.

As far as a foundation, solid surface is a strict no-no (as I understand it).   The mattress needs to breath out moisture underneath or you will be in for big trouble.   I made a base of plywood and drilled a bunch of holes in it - I hope I drilled enough, I think I did, since there doesn't seem to be noticeable moisture on the bottom of the mattress.  I think slats are fine too *IF* they are supported well enough to not sag at all.

Another thing which I've always sensed, and my girlfriend conformed in her reading about allergies.   Do NOT make up your bed, instead pull the covers back and let the thing dry out during the day.

Wow, jsut 1" to start with, huh ?   And I was trying to decide between 2" and 3".  But your plan makes sense - if it's too thin, maybe add an inch of the 32 under the 20.

Thanks for the heads-up on certifications, Lukey.   Anyone know if FBM's stuff meets these ?

The reason some mattresses (Latex or otherwise) require a firm flat base (not slatted) is simply due to the base layering used in the mattress, ie- the foam layer used in construction as a support layer (& a great way to add thickness to a mattress without adding any latex) or in the case of "flippable" mattresses it's to do with the soft foam "comfort layers" that has been used. Some cheap P/U foam types cannot handle the dipping between each slat & will get permanent rutts from the foam collapsing under duress. It is extremely common for bedding manufacturers to use cost saving methods during production such as limiting the amount of actual latex in the mattress, & bolstering the overall thickness with cheap nasty P/U foam that is heavily treated with fat soluble chemicals such as flame retarder, dyes, masking perfumes, & VOC's that can seriously affect chemically sensitive souls. P/U foams also only have a third of the longevity that natural latex will give you.

Mattresses that can handle slatting, generally will have latex base layers (support layers on single sided no-flip mattresses) or durable comfort layers made from latex rubber (flippable mattress types) so inturn can handle the dipping between each slat that occurs. Due to the fact that natural latex rubber does not rely on displacement of air when compressed like foam does, so it will always have close to 100% return after compression (like a LGA test procedure), whereas for foam to have 100% return of loft, it will rely on drawing back air into the foam structure. The less the air can draw back into the foam, the flatter more unsupportive the foam will get. This will also change the overall density of the support or comfort layer, simply put- foam is cheap & sucks.

When you purchase a latex mattress, use this simple check-list of questions to ask the retailer or (prefferably) manufacturer:

*ECO certified latex (100% natural)??? why? natural latex is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, dustmite free, biodegradeable, renewable, untreated & extremely long lasting.

*LGA tested (quality/duability tested)??? why? to ensure that your mattress will have the same feel 5years down the track, & for warranty assurances.

*Is the pillowtop 100% natural fibre (wool, alpaca, tencel, ingeo)??, or is it 100% synthetic (polyester, dacron, rayon blended) or a blended fibre (wool/poly, wool/dacron etc)??? Why? natural fibres will breathe under your skin creating an airflow layer that disperses bodyheat build-up & promotes out-venting of airflow caused by the pincoring of the latex (venting system/mold). Also, synthetic materials do not absorb any moisture, giving you a clammy, hot sleeping surface.

*Is the support structure 100% latex layering (combination of densities)?, or is it combined with foam layering (base layer, comfort layer, central support layer)???? Why? P/U foam layers reduce internal airflow, last a quarter to a third of the life of natural latex. Are a cost cutting method used during production to maximise profit margins within products. Are heavily treated. Unrenewable.

*Is the outer fabric or quilting natural, or synthetic fabric (polyester)??? Why? heat, simply heat......synthetic fabrics reduce airflow & are simply HOT.

Rusty, I would look for a topper that is set to a 5 (prefferable) or 7 posture zone setting that will target a softer zone for your shoulders, whilst giving you a firmer support zone for your hips & lower back. Avoid any mono-zone posture zoning as they are for beanpole bodytypes, not really sidesleepers. The thicker the topper, the better. 3 inch (7.5cm) is generally the go, set in a plush medium density to reduce that counter-pressure on the shoulder.

Good luck mate.

LukeyDC- cobber from Oz.

Thanks for all the info Lukey.   Would you please check out my other thread on DIY measurement of IDL and comment on it ?

But after 18 months I find that the underbed is still too hard, so am looking for a softer latex underneath... looking at the medium talalay.  Any thoughts?

sleep deprived

Ok, I ordered the 1" of 20ILD latex from FBM.   It is an improvement, but I still get pressure points on the sides of my hips when side-sleeping (which is most of the time).   So I'm wondering, what next ?   I guess I'll fold the 1" piece in half and see how that feels.