Mattress Forum

www.myessentia.com  They have a Santa Monica location.  We drove out there today, but they were closed for the holiday.  I'm researching the latex mattresses as well.  It seems like most of them are on-line that are 100% natural, but Essentia is 100% natural and they now have a location in Santa Monica.  I also found one on the SAMS Club website too called Eco-Green Latex Matress.  My concern is that I'm allergic to wool, and the all natural ones have wool.

Good Luck,

Sherry

It looks like theirs are all "natural memory foam" in addition to latex. I don't really like memory foam and they're probably out of my budget anyways, haha. I'll have to look into Sams Club. 

Thanks!!

Mike

I found another company called Foam Sweet Foam in Lake Forest (Orange Country) (800) 452-6114.  They have all 100% Natural Latex as well and a showroom to lay on them.  Sams has another 100% Latex and it's called American Sleep Organic Item # 190001  for $1,999.  This is the absolute cheapest thing I can find anywhere for 100% Latex and I've put about 4 full days of research into this so far.  If you find anything else, please let me know.  On the Eco-Green one, the memory form part of it is Soy based 70% and then the rest is other.  I talked to the manufacturer direct today.

Sherry

I might try to get to Foam Sweet Foam. Sounds like an interesting place. I found out PJs Sleep in Hollywood carries some latex mattresses, so I'm gonna check them out this week if I can.

I've also been talking to the guy at Mattresses.net. I asked him about making me something like the Pure Bliss mattress that is 2" 19 ild, 2" 28 ild, 6" 36 ild and he recommended 3" 22 ild over 6" 33 ild as a close match using the materials he has available. He'll build that and ship it to me for about $1400. I'm probably going to do that.

I'll let you know if I discover any other places.

Thanks!

Mike

I don't think we got your original post! :-)

I went to Essentia today in Santa Monica and the beds were wonderful, but very pricey.  I also went to Foam Sweet Foam in Lake Forest too.  I met the owner of the company and actually tried out each bed to see it for comfort.  The owner was a very honest and straight forward (aka non-salesman) type personality.  For a 3 layer bed it was around $2,800 and for a 4 layer bed it was around $3,100 and $100 less if you picked it up yourself.  I know that it is not as cheap as your $1,400 you found, but I am in the construction business (I own my own company) and have had to learn the hard way - you get what you pay for.  I will probably go with this company because they are a physical location that I have direct contact with the owner and their materials are either 100% or 95% all natural depending on which ones you choose.

Sherry

One more thing...they are the manufactuer so it cuts out the middle man.

Sherry

Manufacturers also are tucking layers of pricey latex or memory foam into their traditional innerspring lines, creating plush hybrid models. Yes, hybrid beds.

"It used to be rock-hard beds sold a lot," says Larry Miller, cofounder and president of Sit 'n Sleep, which has 18 mega-stores in Southern California. "Today we're selling a lot of plush beds with support, a lot of latex, a lot of memory foam, a lot of air products and new types of innersprings with latex or memory foam, or a combination of foams."

In 2001, 1 in 7 mattresses sold for $1,000 or more, according to the International Sleep Products Assn. By 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available, the number had risen to more than 1 in 5.

Two trends are converging: advancements in mattress technologies and the aging of baby boomers who are willing to spend money on premium products.

"Around age 50, your body really starts to change in regard to sensitivity to pressure points," says Consumer Reports senior editor Tod Marks, who headed up the magazine's most recent report on mattresses. Changes can even be felt at age 40, he says. "That mattress you found comfortable 10 years ago may no longer be so comfortable. You may want more padding on top."

Doctors and bedding professionals used to think that a firm mattress was best for the back. Not anymore. Today, a combination of support and comfort is thought to be ideal -- whatever feels best to each person. And what feels best to many people, especially as they get older, is a mattress with a little "give." That's where specialty beds come in.

Viscoelastic and latex foam conform to the body's curves, absorb motion and ease pressure points at the shoulders and hips. Many in the mattress industry are especially excited about latex, which is pleasantly springy and feels cooler than memory foam. It also is naturally hypoallergenic and dust-mite resistant. "One of the reasons it's catching on is it's the best of both worlds," says Sealy spokesman David Mullen. Latex "reacts more like an innerspring, it reduces pressure points, and it gives you individual support."

Sounds like you had a good experience at FSF. I agree you get what you pay for, but Mattresses.net is also built by themselves by hand and they have a good reputation. The foam is all sourced from the same places (Latex International), so there is very little difference from manufacturer to manufacter on that front. The mattress I'm looking at is a Queen with 8 inches of latex and an organic cotton and wool cover.I may add an extra inch to the mattress for about $100 (ends up being about 10" total including wool batting).  I assume you're looking at a bigger mattress from FSF as a comparable mattress from them is closer to $2k. I suspect some of the price difference is just overhead for running your business in SoCal instead of Arizona. I may be in Anaheim in a couple weeks, so if I haven't bought anything yet I'll check them out.

MikeS,

Have you confirmed that ALL the latex sold by mattresses.net is from Latex International? I know they do sell LI products, but could not find on their website whether or not they ONLY sell LI latex. I also remember reading somewhere that dunlop sold by LI is imported and not actually made by LI, but that info may be outdated or incorrect. Please remember that there are distinct differences between talalay and dunlop foams too, so this is another thing to consider.

After taking into account all that information, mattresses.net does have some of the best pricing I've seen. I myself was torn between lowest priced option or high-end. The lowest priced option I found was mattresses247 on ebay who currently has three each 3" talalay cores (seconds) in your choice of firmness for $942 delivered in king size (they also have similar deals with a lower price on queen size). Throw in one or two 1" latex toppers from philmoresupply, a terry cloth encasement cover from FBM, and I could be in a king sized 10" or 11" latex mattress for $1200 to $1300. The high-end option was flobeds. Certified 100% natural talalay latex from LI inside a very nice organic cotton and thick organic wool encasement + a great core swap and return policy.

Mattresses.net kind of fit in between, so I never researched them too much. I would definitely find out what type of latex and the source of the latex quoted to you from mattresses.net so you are comparing apples to apples.

I'm looking at Talalay blended latex. The owner said they use Latex International to supply their latex. I'm following up with him to verify the blended variety is made by LI. I'm also checking into the cost of natural latex, but from the exhaustive (and exhausting) research I've done thus far it seems that the blend is more durable and longer lasting while still being relatively toxin-free (oeko certified from mattresses.net). 

I decided I didn't want to deal with the bottom end retailers like ebay based businesses and Foam By Mail. It seems there are some inconsistencies in those companies that don't really make it worth the low price to me. I also don't wan't to pay for a larger resellers marketing, showroom overhead, etc. so I like the idea of dealing with a direct manufacturer. Arizona Mattress (mattresses.net) is a direct manufactuer and offers a quality mattress at a reasonable price. There are other similar options, but they've been very helpful and offer a formula for the mattress I like. I could still be swayed, but I'm 90% sure I'm buying from them unless I find a similar situation locally.

Regarding the durability, there has been much debate on this topic. Do a search here for posts by budgy, as he has fairly strong opinions that natural latex is superior to blended regardless of what LI states. There haven't been any published unbiased studies comparing LI's tatlatech blend vs. their 100% natural regarding durability. The only evidence is what LI has published, and there is reason to believe that their published results may be geared more towards profit margin than actual science since their ultimate goal is to turn a profit.

Budgy did post this link from an unbiased source to support his argument that natural rubber is a better stronger product than SBR: http://www.elderrubber.com/material.htm - notice the differences in these three categories: Compression Set Resistance, Resilience (Rebound), & Tear Strength. NR beats SBR in all three categories.

Budgy also mentioned that there have been many 100% natural latex foam mattresses last for 50 years. Blended cannot say the same, only time will tell.

Here's a good video of one of those 50 year old Latex mattresses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfQqDGJ1gI

I'm not saying that the natural is better than the blended, because I really don't know. What I do know is that at 41 years of age, this mattress I'm buying has a reasonable chance of lasting me for the rest of my life. It also contains no petroleum based products, and I'm hoping will be extremely comfortable. Lastly, It has a removable cover so I can switch out any part at any time.

They're just quoting LI, so I suppose you take that for what its worth. There seems to be anectodal evidence both ways and many people seem to not be able to tell the difference. I think my general feeling is it doesn't matter, haha, but I'm not super hard core about it being "all-natural" per se. 

My understanding of the 40 year old beds it they're all dunlop manufactured, so that also isn't apple to apples, but it is definitely part of why I'm buying a latex bed.

Ken at Mattresses.net got back to me. He said they use LI and Radium for latex. From what I can tell Radium is a reputable manufacturer as well. He said he prefers the Radium's overall quality slightly more. I think this jives with what I've seen Phoenix metion in various threads. Ken also told me there would be a $250 upcharge to make the bed out of natural talalay. I suppose I have to figure out if that is important to me or not, haha.

Thanks for the dialog. It is always helpful to talk through these things!

Regarding the fact that people can't tell the difference, that may be true regarding comfort, but everything I've read states that the natural talalay product from LI is denser and heavier in weight. Not sure if there is any correlation whatsoever, but denser PU foams have been proven to last longer.

Regarding the 40 year old beds, I'm more concerned with the materials used to process them rather than the technique. But your point is valid, not an apples to apples comparison.

I'm pretty sure mattresses.net is using Radium, since it is a less expensive product, and they're website states a 40/60 blend rather than the 30/70 LI uses. From what I've been reading, the LI product is noticeably better. If it were not the case, then why would anyone use LI's product when the Radium is cheaper?

I'm sure the mattresses.net product is fine, and you'll likely be very happy with your purchase. Another main deciding point on the flobeds for me was the promotion they just finished running of 15% off. Not sure if I would've splurged at their full price.

I haven't really seen any clear discussion of the quality differences. Can you point me towards them? Most of what I'm seeing doesn't point to either being better than the other.

If I remember correctly, I read it on a website of a high-end bed manufacturer. They stated that they switched to the LI latex over the Radium due to its superior consistency and higher quality. I did a quick search and came up empty. If I find the link, I will post it for you.

I also found a few comparisons of european talalay vs. LI, but to be fair when I went back and re-read them, they never mentioned that the european foam was from Radium. I may have just assumed that to be the case. I did find Phoenix's posts on this site, and bow to Phoenix's better knowledge, since Phoenix has obviously seen plenty of both.

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**** Edit ****- I spent some time looking for the link I mentioned, and cannot find it. It bugs me, because I know it mentioned Radium by name and stated that the LI Talalay was more uniform. It mentioned that the Radium Talalay had one side which was slightly firmer than the other, but not nearly as noticeable as dunlop. Also mentioned that LI has less surface imperfections. If anyone here knows the link I'm referring to, please post it.

I also think that FBM may have cast a bad impression on me regarding Radium as I understand that most if not all the foam they sell is from Radium. Theory has it that they're selling 'seconds', but no one has confirmed or denied this. MequonJim posted a comparison between the two, but doesn't mention if the FBM product was labeled as coming from Radium. There are very many posts here from FBM customers who stated their foam was labeled from Radium. Here's the link MequonJim posted with pictures of the side by side comparison: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/foam-mail-latex-latex-international-latex-comparison/5314-0-1.html

Did some more homework (over an entire week full time on this so far!)  SAMS clubs subs it out to a mattress company (been in business since 1970s) who does have a showroom, however in Colorado.  The bed is called the American Sleep Organic Matress #190001 for $1,999 for a CA King.  It is a 100% Natural Dunlap Latex with 1" 18ILD, 2" 24ILD, and 6" 28-32 ILD with zones built in.  I too wanted Talalay but might be too plush for my husband.  My compromise and get a topper later if I need to.  It also has organic wool & organic cotton.  With SAMS Club it is a full money back return for the first 90 days (or 60 days) with receipt AND no restocking fee or hidden fees.  I figured it's worth a try because it won't cost me a penny if I don't like it.  All the other companies have a huge return or exchange policy with it being 9%-18%. Still a lot less than anything else I've found that is ready made.

Sherry

Are you going to order the mattress with the zippered cover from mattresses.net? I'd definitely recommend it for numerous reasons. One, the entire encasement can be professionally wetcleaned whenever you want. Two, you can examine the quality of the foam they send you. My guess is that they're going to put the nicer quality pieces of foam in the beds with removable covers. The ones they send in sealed covers likely aren't going to be examined any time soon. I'm considering purchasing a new bed for my son too, and would like to know your impressions of the mattresses.net beds.

One thing I noticed in the link you sent above with the SBR vs NR numbers in it is that those were pure SBR numbers. Most sources claim the synthetic rubber is inferior in some ways on its own, but the blending process combines the strengths of both. No data to back that up other than LI's marketing blurb. Still looking for info about Radium, but I've yet to find a specific negative remark about their foam.

Also, in case you didn't notice, the video you posted about the 50 year old mattress is from the Mattresses.net guy.

Going back to budgy's point from another thread, "If synthetic latex was superior then why on earth would the same company blend any natural rubber into the mix at all when the cost of doing so is significantly higher?  it would be much cheaper to make the product 100% synthetically. "

Thread I'm referring to: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/this-true-100-natural-talalay-does-not-exist/18681-A-1.html  -  Definitely worth a read.

I also notice that the high-end mattresses use 100% pure talalay. The Pranasleep line at City Mattress uses 100% pure Talalay from LI for 4 of their 5 versions. They only use blended on their lowest end "Om Shanti" which is their entry level Latex mattress. Their "Wahe" version retails for over $8K, and compares closely to the Flobeds posture deluxe which is less than half the price delivered.

Anything is possible, including the fact that a 70/30 mix of SBR to NR could be stronger than either compund by themselves, but I wouldn't bank on it. Looking at the physical characteristics of each substance tells me that 100% NR would likely outlast a blend when used for a mattress. Maybe not for a car tire, but probably for a mattress. Until an unbiased scientific test is performed, no one will know for sure.

Regarding mattresses.net, I'm not overly comfortable with their website. They don't mention which latex is being used in each of their mattresses. They're quick to tell you they use LI Talalay products, which is true. But as you found out by contacting them, they also use Radium.  I'm not insinuating they're being deceptive, but from some of the posts I've been reading, you have to call them and pin them down on what latex is being used in what mattress. From the reviews I've read, they're a well respected company, and would consider purchasing from them myself. As I mentioned before, I may decide to purchase a new bed for my son. I just wish they were a little more forthcoming on their website.

I also agree that paying more doesn't actually mean you're getting more. As I mentioned in post #16, I too was torn between the lowest priced option and high-end. Obviously you decided that the lowest price option was too risky, and are willing to pay a premium to reduce risk, even though the lower priced option could turn out to provide just as comfortable a night's sleep.

I decided to do the same, albeit at a much higher premium. I did so because I like to splurge on myself every once in a while. 95% of my major purchases are based solely on value, so I fully understand where you're coming from. This one falls into the other 5%.

The mattress I purchase for my son will be a twin size mattress, and will likely either come from mattresses.net or from mattresses247 on ebay. Value will be the deciding factor for his, especially since he'll surely want a larger bed when he's old enough to move out on his own.

BTW...Regarding your statement that I'm calling LI liars is incorrect. I'm just saying I don't know if I believe them. There's a difference.

And I'm not the only one who's questioned mattresses.net marketing: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/foambymailcom-vs-latex-international/25931-0-1.html

Fair enough. My apologies for using too strong of a word. Just pointing out they were as guilty as anyone if they're misrepresenting facts. One thing is for sure, the mattress industry is quite rife with misinformation and questionable marketing.

I'm definitely managing my costs on this. I kinda look at it like a bell curve. The super low end of a product is usually not that great and the super high end is usually overhyped. :-) I'm a freelancer in a business that involves lots of equipment costs (musician/composer/audio engineer) and have done a ton of product evaluation over the years, haha.

I actually found Mattresses.net because Phoenix routinely lists them as a reputable dealer making a quality product. He lists them along with Sleepez, Flobeds, and another bunch of retailers. 

And also, for the record, I am considering going all natural on the talalay. Ken will do it for $250 for the whole bed and it is from Latex International. Still a deal at ~$1750 for 9 inches of LI 100% natural foam and a wool and bamboo cover (he includes that with the upgrade) including the foundation and shipping.

Thanks for this info. I live near Culver City and never heard of this place but will check it out now.

Ortho Mattresses carries some 80-99% synthetic latex mattresses by Stearns And Foster. S&F makes different mattresses for different companies and these are only sold at Ortho. I think they're overpriced for synthetic latex but sometimes they are on sale. Also know that whatever the price posted on the mattress you can usually get it at about 40% off that. They work off commissions so walk out and try another salesman on another day. Sometimes a salesman is willing to go to rock bottom just to make a certain quota. I imagine this to be true at most mattress stores.

I may check out the place in Santa Monica too.

I also looked at the Essentia web site and I only see mattresses with latex plus memory foam, none with pure latex. I didn't look thoroughly but that was what I got from their site. Also their mattresses look way overpriced, to me. If I'm ever near there with time on my hands I might stop in just for fun though.