Mattress Forum

You don't have a vendetta do you ?   THat being said, I decided to ditch my latex core (from an old mattress where it was married with cheap pu eggcrate) in favor of some high-quality (hopefully, time will tell) p/u from FBM.   I vastly prefer it.  Hwoever, I still like a latex topper.

Do you have a vendetta? Think before you write nonsense. What sort of question is that?

What exactly do you mean latex does not work?  Can you clarify what a mattress needs to accomplish before it works?  

You have basically said that memory foam does not support because it doesn't push back, and latex does not provide pressure relief because it does push back.  Using this logic it is impossible for ANY bed to do both.  Although I should refrain, I feel the need to post this...I have no self control these days:

I don't know budgy but I have a spring air soft talalay latex and it has lots of pushback even though it is a soft latex mattress.

I also read about pushback at this forum. It is not the same feeling I got with poly foam.

The latex is bouncy and it is rubber.

Try sleeping on rubber. It pinches even though it may be the softest.

that pinch is pushback I guess. Very uncomfortable.

If latex was so good we would have latex stores everywhere and latex beds would be carried at major retail stores too.

Reality is here mattress firm and mattress giant have stopped carrying all latex beds they had.

Because they told me they don't sell. Well they would sell if they were any goood wouldnt they?

If latex was so great all stores would be carrying latex beds.

But reality is almost no retail stores do.

And it is pretty big hasle for most people to buy mattresses over the internet.

people want to lay down on the beds in a store and feel them.

Well there are no latex mattresses here. Because as I said if they were so good stores would carry them.

But they don't.

When someone say "this does not work for me" (as I myself have done recently writing about my experience of a latex core and my preference for p/u), that is reasonable.  

When someone makes a blanket statement like "latex does not work" and "latex is not comfortable", it seems a little odd.   What IS nonsense is to assume that whatever is true for one person is true for all people - especially on something as personal as a bed.

big box stores love selling cheap mass produced beds because its easy, its how they all operate...has nothing to do with latex not being 'good' or 'not working'.  Go do some googling on reviews for pillow top mattresses in general and you find on horror story after another about how they sag and lose a lot of support in a short period of time...this is what the big stores sell..and it seems to work really well for them..,keeps people coming back again and again.  unfortunately popularity has nothing to do with how good a bed is.  I am not saying latex is perfect for everyone, yes it is 'bouncy' that is because it is highly elastic..,just like a steel spring system...but most would argue less pressure than springs.  your spring air mattress I bet you 10 to 1 is not 100% latex...please read the law tag on the bed...I bet it lists polyurethane foam as an ingredient. 

Are you for real? or you just like twisting other peoples statements and then adding more of your own make believe? or you just like to start a fire on your own by unnessarily provoking people?

Latex does pushback and it pushes back hard. I have had 3 latex mattresses, the firm ones and the softest ones and so I am talking from experience. May be you are "one" of those oddballs that like the pushback from a mattress. 99% of people don't. Most people do not find pushback "conmfortable"

Incidentally I I had gone to costco and seen this road show by spring air. The spring air softest "latex" mattress is called olympus and it is 6 inches of latex

2 inch of celsion latex upon 1 inch of dunlop latex upon 2 inch of talalaly latex and all this 6 inch sits atop a 8 inch base of some fancy name they call "soy foam"

I slept on it for 30 minutes and it seemed soft. Perhaps all night sleeping would be different. I don't know since I have had enough of latex. It did not work for me after 3 mattresses. The firm ones and the soft ones all had pushbacks. The feeling is totally unpleasant. It may support but it does not provide presure relief.

I think I need to stop posting here...because I am having a hard time absorbing these ridiculous blanket statements...you offer no real advice, you offer no solutions...you simply point the finger at one product which has worked for many people and say 'it's no good'.  

Uh, I just made direct quotes from original post - and one of my own ("this does not work for me").   I guess it's pretty irritating to have spent the money on a all-latex mattress and then find it so uncomfortable.    I'm not happy about the fact that I did so about 13 years ago and am now convinced it's been contribtuing to my lower back pain.

You seem easily provoked, sorry for feding into that.   But I mainly want to learn.  So I'm actually glad to hear that I'm not nuts for not liking the latex core (that I pulled from a mattress of latex+eggcrate).    I just hope the p/u I replaced it with lasts awhile; but it's cheap enough to replace fiarly often I guess.   I still think I like the latex topper.

Of course, the layered latex mattresses have their advantages of split sides and being able to restack and change firmnesses.

I was pretty surprised with what happened when I put the 3 layer talalay onto its matching pine slat foundation.  There was nothing else I was doing that would have caused my right shoulder to hurt so much, but after 1 night on the config, I ran out to buy 'a mattress pad'....  which was really an attempt to make the bed softer and more pressure relieving.

I knew I was at a point where experimenting with layer exchanges to try 'n make it work on that pine slat foundation would be almost intolerable.  I was on my 4th mattress at that point already.

So, I put the all latex back on 'box spring in one room and the TP Cloud in the other.  Slept a couple nights on each for a week or so.  Took a while but was crystal clear - I much preferred the TP Cloud and believe me, no lie, nothing to gain financially, I still do.  Worth every penny of the $1600 for my right shoulder.

One last thougt - I was VERY skeptical of Tempurpedic for 5 months and trying 4 other mattresses before getting it.  I only wish I could take back the time and have bought it initially, but how would I have known?  Guess I had to go through that process.

The truth is, when you are trying to find a sleep system that will allow you to sink where you need to (hips and shoulders) but be supported up where you need it (waist, lower back). Latex, when trying to find the right one for you, needs to allow your hips and shoulders to sink while still holding the small ofyour back up to keep your alignment correct. Too many times we "buy" the speech of the salesman (of which I am one) and do not pay attention to the way our back feels... or we don't spend enough time testing the beds that feel good at first. To top it off, we find all of the posts and reviews that are negative and completely write off a possible solution.

I suggest that the method of support (coils, pocketed coils, latex, visco, etc.) while having their respective positive and negative attributes can be truly tested for you ONLY BY YOU. I use this method in my solutions presentation: "We want to find the most comfortable option in the following four areas..."

1. Immediate Comfort - What feels good when you initially lay down. something firmer? softer? pillow top? You should not feel like your shoulder is digging into your chin or that your hips are sinking too far or not enough for true comfort. (Having the right thickness of pillow here will be vital to that 20% of your spine which probably never touches the mattress but rests on a pillow)
2. Long Term Comfort - Find your favorite feel (no more than 2 options if at all possible) and then spend at least 12-15 minutes on it in your sleeping position... if your muscles begin to relax... or "melt", you are experiencing the release of your back muscles from your spine proving enough support to allow you to sleep all night (or at least longer than right now!)
3. Psychological Comfort - If you have a fear of any particular element found in beds (latex allergies, memory foam is hot, springs push back too much) I would suggest that you "prove" the fear first yourself, but if you can't, let's avoid that particular thing. For example, even though a true latex allery is found in less than 1% of the population, I see about 15% of my customers who claim one... I can explain that normally latex is a contact allergy... I can inform them of the water-washing method of cleaning the impurities instead of detergents or petroleum (which is what most reactions to latex are caused by) etc. but ultimately, if they are afraid of latex... we will avoid it!
4. Financial Comfort - Once I find the right Comfort (immediate), Support (long-term) and avoid any psychologial concerns, I want to find the right price range for my purchase. sometimes we can give up certain elements in the bed to obtain a better price and as long as I feel the comfort (of the first three) is not truly compromised, I can work the price to my benefit!

Ultimately, once you have done some research on what to expect to spend and then testing to prove your levels of comfort, you will find that more expensive does not necessarily mean more comfortable or even better. According to Englander's website (which I do not carry) you should expect to find a GOOD queen set (not specialty) coiled mattress for between $1000 and $1500 dollars (which should include the customer service elements of warranty, delivery, comfort exchange, durability and comfort). Specialty will probably be more, but there are options that can easily put you into that range without having to break the bank.

Easy test: Go find 5 pillow top mattresses in your local store (tell the sales agent to leave you alone... seriously) at 5 different price points. You will probably find that the top 2 or 3 can feel really good without having to like the most expensive one... hope this helps!

Sleep Well 'joed"!

As Pure bliss latex mattress(nutrition, 11" of latex) owners of 2 months, my husband and I are very happy with our latex mattress,  it's very comfortable to us.  I think whether latex/memory form mattress works or not is a very individual thing.

I have tried tempurpedic beds. I found that basic cloud is too firm for me. The other cloud series - I sink in too much and am touching the base foam. I have tried the contour series. I find them too firm for me. I have tried Rhapsody at a friends house. It strated fine and it fizzled. It softened up where I weighed the heaviest - hips/buttocks. I have tried sleeping on allura. And it is only "seems" good when I sleep on my back. and finally I can't afford a 7000 dollar Grand bed.

So if there is any "soft latex bed " in "real life" kindly tell me. Because I have not found it. I don't know why budgy is telling "99%" of the people like latex.To me right now is just uncomfortable piece of rubber which they fancifully call "latex".

Beware of the salemen. I might just go back to springs.

Well, even though I accused you of saying what was true for you is true for everybody, what you're saying sounds kind of familiar.

My old latex bed felt too hard and too soft at the same time.   Pressure points on hips, but made my back hurt.   And it didn't make my back hurt because it was too firm - sleeping on an old non-foamcore futon in spare bedroom, VERY firm, always makes my back feel way better overnight.

The comfort level is personal preferance. Just like all other foams Latex comes in extra firm, med, plush to very soft. That is personal preferance. I have had my latex bed for 11yrs now and I wouldnt change it out for anything. I personally found memory foam mattress to be uncomfortable and made my shoulders hurt, but that was a firmer one. Some of the softer ones like the Tempurpedic Cloud I could live with, but none are a comfortable as my latex bed. With that said another friend of mine swears by his Tempurpedic and wouldnt trade it for the world as it is very comfortable to him (Way to hard for me) Talking with others I find many that love both products and I find some that cant sleep on either.

To say latex has more push back is completely false. At least until they come out with some new product that defiy's the laws of physics and gravity.

Not sure why you are saying Mattress Firm doesnt carry latex mattress. They have latex on their website and in the local stores around here. They also talk about the reason some of the Simmons or Sealy mattress's sets are so expensive is because they use latex and latex is one of the highest quality materials you can get in the bedding industry. This is what their sales reps will tell you. Mattress Giant also sells Latex beds, so does sleepy's as will most of your largest mattress compainies. None of those compaines has stopped carrying latex beds so you might want to check your data again. Many funiture stores do not carry latex, but even most of the larger funiture stores and/or high end funitures will carry latex beds.

it is naive to beieve all mattress retailers would carry them if it was a great product. Tempurpedic is a great product, but not all retailers carry them. Sealy Makes great mattress sets, but not all retailers carry them. So stating "If a product is so good all retailers would carry them" is flawed.

Very well said. I agree with this 100%.

I did not claim that 99% of people like latex.  Roy1 claimed 99% of people do not like it.  I am sorry it did not work for you guys.

You still have not answered my question about whether your mattress truly is all latex....did you read the law label yet to see the material contents?

What people need to do is call mattress firm and mattress giant. Then then they will know they stopped carrying latex.

Your "claim" about latex's pushback is a not true.

After my experiences, I have learned not to trust salesmen.

If you read posts I have posted the information there.

To repeat, It is 6 inch of latex on 8 inches of soy foam. 2 inch of celsion over 1 inch of dunlop over 3 inch of talalay. All over 8 inch of soy foam.

I stopped by the local Mattress Firm here in Charlotte, NC. They have 3 different latex beds by Sterns and Foster on their floor. I told them I had heard they were not going to be carrying latex anymore and he said there are going to be carrying latex mattresses for a long time and there are no plans to discontinue them.

You cant compare that to a latex mattress as it has more soy foam then it does latex. 1" of Dunlop really doesnt make much scense to put on top of the soy foam as a cushining layer since it is primarly designed to be used as the support or core layer. THey talalay is designed for the cushining and comfort layer. Celsion or Celestra is just a polyester fiber. Soy foam is a fairly new product in the industry and it is truely unknown about its full durability. 

Latex has been around since the 40's and is still the longest lasting material in the bedding industry. Still need a few more years in to tell if Tempurpedic will hold as long and they are making a good showing.

Dont get me worng. I am not saying the High Density Memory foams are a bad product or worse then latex. They are both excellent products with great support and durability. To choose one fromt he other is really a matter of personal preference for comfort.

Ultimately memory foam or latex depends on what your biggest problem is, pressure points or support, but sometimes little details in what's above & below the foam itself can result in huge performance changes for you.  It's just tough to draw blanket conclusions of either in a vacuum, especially for how different we all are, and how differently they can all be setup.

I laid on the iComfort Revolution SO much before buying it, it was ridiculous. I really thought it was going to work.  I could detect no problems in the store.  It didn't seem like my back or neck would have problems with it.  I had no idea it would end up sleeping a little warm.  It took a week or two weeks for neck discomfort to emerge. 

I hear some states don't allow returns on mattresses.  That's insane!   Mattress shopping for quite a few people is one of the most difficult things to choose among.

People in great shape and no joint problems can sleep on most things, stay in various hotels and do fine.  Then there's the rest of us who need specialty mattresses.

Hey Joed... i just have a thought here to see if I can any further from my previous post about testing...

A new mattress truly is like a piece of machinery at your local gym. Let's use a treadmill and an elliptical machine. Many people can "run 5 miles" on a treadmill and when they are first introduced to the elliptical, they can barely finish 1-2 miles. Is it fair to say the elliptical machine is a failure or the incorrect machine? Simply put, no. the elliptical machine uses your arms as well as your legs AND it is a very controlled motion for the muscle groups in the lower half of your body. If you keep trying the elliptical for the next couple of weeks, you find that pretty soon you are up to yuor "5 miles" and you have stopped sweating like the entire army in basic training! You may still even feel some soreness for those several weeks as you keep pushing yourself on the elliptical, but ultimately you can feel the benefits and your body continues to adapt.

The longer you have slept on a bed in poor condition, or with the wrong support or levels of comfort for you, the longer it may take to find the correct bed for YOUR needs. It seems that throughout these  posts you have tried several things to no avail, but I have not seen (and I may have missed it) how long you have actually tried some of these beds (it is a lot to read to get all of the facts) but I submit that any soreness felt during the first 5-8 weeks could literally be the change your spine and back muscles experience as they are experiencing the benefits of the new sleep system... if the problem, though is in the pressure points on your hips or shoulders, that won't change with extended use once the bed has been conditioned (or broken in).

As a reminder, I am a sleep consultant and have been doing this for only about 5 years, but I spend countless hours reading, researching and discussing the effects of different support systems and different physical response of individuals so that I stop trying to sell a square and spend more time custom fitting my clients with the proper comfort, support and price. Even with 90-120 days to make an exchange or return, I have less than 4% of my sales ever come back because of the time I spend listening and discussing their responses and less time talking about the things my manufacturer reps tell about why their bed is better than everyone else's... millions of backs and almost as many sleep systems, just gotta find the right one for you!

Sleep well, Joed!
 

But I am back to comment on this Latex thread.

First, hardly anyone seems to mention that the Latex seems to sleep HOT.  I know, I know, it's not supposed to...only Memory Foam is hot.                                                                     But I am absolutely convinced that our new S&F  Latex bed is much warmer than previous, old mattress.  True, it has a pillowtop -- and I suspect that is part of the problem.                 But I also think the Latex itself is an issue -- it doesn't breathe.   What do the experts/salespeople have to say about this?  Better yet, what do actual buyers have to say?            Because I don't trust anyone in the industry.

I also think the Latex gives that "pushback" sensation that has been mentioned here several times.  In that regard, it is not comfortable.

I am on the verge of exchanging our current bed for the non-pillowtop version OR returning it and buying a non-latex model of some sort.

But this is a real dilemma -- finding a bed (that doesn't cost a fortune) that is COOL and doesn't PUSH BACK!

Isn't latex about the most expensive bed material ?   So if you feel it "pushes back" for you, it seems like not going latex helps you with the "costs a fortune" thing.   I decided I really didn't like the 6" latex core from an old mattress I disassembled, instead opting to go with a much cheaper core of p/u (LUX and HD36) from FBM.

I feel your pain, as far as finding something you like - I am trying to converge on something I like by experimenting with layers.   The fact my girlfriend wants to set up a guest bed, and isn't real particular about it, gives me more options.

For latex to "feel" cooler, you must be directly on the latex (not just have latex as one of the layers of foam in the decking of the bed)... if there is more than the cover between you and the latex, it won't really make much difference.

If you are in the pillow-top, another disadvantage will be that the farther you sink into the bed, the hotter you will sleep as you are reducing the amount of airflow coming in contact with your skin.

Latex, like other foams and even coils, come in various firmnesses (foam uses ILD to measure and coils are typically depicted in gauge). I do not remember if I posted on one of your other threads or in response to this earlier, but here you go:

Whatever the combination of foams (any type) and coils (any type), there are a couple of things to consider:

• While in your sleeping position during the testing phase of your shopping, your hips and shoulders should sink enough to allow your spine to contour properly (on your back or stomach) or be level (-ish) to the floor (while on your side).
• Anything that does not completely give way when you push on it is giving you push back, so what you want is something that gives you the sensation of pushing back so evenly across the length of your body, that there is no one area that feels more pressure... this is what reducing pressure points is actually about.
• Let me remind you that while I sell mattresses, I spend so much more time researching the physical responses of clients to various systems, that I feel like I could care what brand or model I sell as long as it is pressure relieving, durable, comfortable and in your price range.
• You will find that I discuss various brands from experience, but (apart from my personal comfort in my bed) I will rarely endorse a bed beyond the questions I am answering on here.

My parents sleep on a Stearns and Foster pillow top with latex and memory foam and have not had some of the same issues you describe, but they are different people, so let me encourage you to go try the bed(s) you think you may want to exchange for and tell the salesperson (after you ask any pertinent questions) to leave you alone and spend 15-20 minutes (per bed) to see if you begin to feel any heat build-up, pressure points, push-back, etc. If you are, keep looking. The muscles in the human back are involuntary and will only relax (release) once they recognize enough support to hold the spine in position without their assistance... it takes on average 12-15 minutes to recognize this support. It isn't a night of sleeping, but it will help eliminate some beds.

Once you find "the one" and you decide to get it... please spend at least 4-5 weeks sleeping on it to allow the bed to be broken in and your back to both experience proper support and allow the change in your body temperature to adjust. Yes, you may sleep warmer, especially during the first few weeks, especially if your last bed created multiple pressure points. Those pressure points reduce blood flow creating a cooler sensation/experience in the attached limbs. Once regular blood flow is re-introduced to those limbs during sleep, you will feel warmer, but the body is an amazing thing and it will adjust in just a few weeks. Not to mention, the increased blood flow does in actuality help your body heal itself quicker (more work is being done in your body while you sleep... but you feel more rested when you wake!)

Hope this answers some questions "boopboopadoop"... sleep well!
 

This is because very few people that sleep on a true latex mattress (with no polyurethane foam) find them to sleep hot.  Read the law label on your S & F pillowtop...there is polyurethane foam in that mattress....this is more than likely what is actually causing you the issues you are experiencing.