Mattress Forum

thanks so much for posting this!!!  i am on the exact same quest as you, and here is what i have learned:

i believe that PBDE's have been outlawed in this country now.

however, as you've learned from the strobel site, there are now more stringent fire retardant laws and the amount of toxins in beds is now more than a few years ago. these laws were unnecessary in many folks opinions, as the current law was more than sufficient, and have resulted in less healthy mattresses.

as for the wool issue, when i have questioned a few companies if they are really only using wool and cotton in their covers or beds to meet the standards, digging a bit deeper, they then admit to using other substances as well such as silica, teflon, boric acid, etc.  but if one company has to use chemicals or fr fibers, then wouldn't it  stand to reason that they all do, for a similar mattress construction?

my experience, even with a drs. prescription, has been that it has been almost impossible to find a bed without fr chemicals and treatments. however, as a non smoker and non candle burner, etc., i would rather have a healthier bed than one with excessive fr treatments. the book "toxic bedrooms" is a pretty good description of what is in beds nowadays.

the challenge also is that some of the healthier options aren't all that comfortable.  i am now experimenting with latex and trying to find a non-toxic cover, as most of the covers do have fr fibers or treatments, although i don't know for sure. this info is hard to come by. business is protected by trade secrets act, and don't have to fully disclose their materials. it does help to ask for a material data sheet from mattress companies, but i believe chemical treatments don't have to be disclosed.

from what i can see strobel offers dunlop latex layers with a zip off cover. you could also buy just the layers elsewhere and have a similar bed.

i'm curious about essentia myself.

debraslist.com is a great site for these types of questions and has some good threads about healthy mattress alternatives.

 I am sure that other companies make the same claim.

If you don't believe them or others, you could buy the latex seperately and just put an organic mattress pad over it (by Natura for example).   I don't think they have to pass any tests for just the mattress pad/protector.  That would not give you a nice zippered up mattress cover to hold it all nicely, but I don't think that would be a problem.  Latex holds in place pretty well.

 
Organic Cotton where it counts most... next to your body. You spend all day in a harsh world. Retreat to a natural bed covered with organic cotton for a true safe haven. Cotton, the original sustainable fabric, grown and processed with out chemicals.
Good for you... Good for the whole world.

 

Pure Organic Wool provides natural fiber for maximum air-flow around your body. Wool provides natural wicking away of moisture. Not only sleep cool and dry, but sleep with peace of mind, knowing Organic Wool is the the finest natural wool gathered in the most sheep-friendly way. Organic wool is free of pollutants and harmful substances. There are zero chemicals used during the wool growing and processing steps. * The sheep are not dipped or treated with any pesticides or herbicides. * The vegetable matter is removed through washing the wool and mechanically carding it. There are no chemicals or acids used in this process. * The wool fleece is washed with pure fresh water without any additives, preserving the natural lanolin content and a skin friendly pH value of 7.5.

FloBeds was the first mattress company to use wool (and no chemicals) to pass the new Federal FR standards. We have wool on all six sides of the mattress.

When you were at the Savvy Rest site, did you get a chance to look over their organic certificates and test results?  Did you check out Michael Penny's blogs? 

There are like 50 franchisers around the country selling these mattresses, promoting them as the MOST green alternative available.  You should check out a few of them. 

Or, you could simply call Savvy Rest and speak with Mr. Penny.

Philip  

Royal Pedic, Green Sleep, Natura, I believe Savvy Rest, Organic Pedic, and many others do not use these chemicals in their organic mattresses.

Strobel seems to be marketing hardcore just as much as the S brands....of course wool burns.....but it has a higher burning point than formaldehyde which is the FR of choice in most foams and polyester fibres.  The CFR 1633 regulations that have everyone in an upheaval are simply stating that to pass the fire test that there is a certain rate of heat release...not that a mattress literally be fireproofed.  Also the wool they lit on fire in their test is yarn being burned from the bottom...the flame test is applied to the tops of the mattress....so long as most of the heat is being released over the wool it is actually a self extinguishing fire....you can test it yourself...try to burn that same wool yarn from the top like a candle wick...it will burn for a few seconds and then go out, hence lower heat release.

Jasmine,

Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate having company on this quest! My family thinks I'm a bit over-the-top with it, if not obsessive. I think it's worth the trouble, though. 

I think, from my research, that Deca PBDE has been outlawed, but that there are a couple others still in use, though they may be getting phased out over the next few years (octa and penta, maybe?). My understanding is that chemical companies will keep modifying the make-up of PBDEs, introducing new ones until new studies indicate potential health risks. In this case, innocent until proven guilty isn't such a hot idea, but that seems to be how the chemical industry and the EPA work. 

That's scary that even the greener companies that you've contacted do end up admitting to using substances in addition to wool in order to reduce flammability. Good that they admit it, but bad that they're doing it, and that you have to push them for the information. Could you please tell me which mattress makers have told you that they are using these materials?

I am sorry to hear that you're having trouble finding a comfortable bed among the healthier options. That is discouraging. What are you leaning toward right now? 

Thanks again, and good luck!

Eliza

Take care,

Eliza

sandman wrote:

Eliza

Philip wrote:

Thanks so much for replying to my post. I am glad to hear that there are many good options out there for a cleaner, healthier bed. Jasmine mentioned that when she pressed some of the companies that make mattresses that purportedly meet the flammability requirements through wool, some of them admitted to using chemicals such as teflon, boric acid, and silica. I know that companies aren't required to disclose the composition of their products due to protection of trade secrets. So I worry that their claims may not be totally honest.

How trustworthy do you think the chemical flame retardant-free claims of the companies you mentioned are? Can you particularly recommend one or two that you think are on the high road and make a comfortable, durable product as well?

Thanks for the clarification about the CFR 1633 regulations regarding rate of heat release. I thought it required a blow torch test, but that's something I heard second hand. Thanks, too, for the additional information about how wool burns. That is interesting and useful to me. Given what you shared about the wool fire being self-extinguishing, Strobel does seem to use that picture of wool burning a bit manipulatively.

I appreciate your expertise and would value any further guidance you could offer.

Thanks,

Eliza

budgy wrote:

It is my impression that the only way to get a mattress without fr's is with a prescription, but even then, one has to make sure that if one wants a fr free bed, that the fr's are eliminated throughout the mattress, not just on the surface.

It is all quite exhausting to figure all this out........I can only encourage anyone concerned about their mattress to ask in-depth questions of the manufacturer you are considering buying from and assess their answers. I haven't been able to come to any absolute conclusions. The more i have researched, the more confusing it becomes. There are so many conficting and contradictory answers given to the same questions. Also,  businesses are not required to disclose much of this information, so they don't.

Wool burns, and is flame retardant, but not flame resistant. I asked someone at the agency that oversees 16 1633 fr law what amount/densification of wool would naturally meet the fr laws, but they would not give a specific answer. I had been hoping to get an absolute formula with which I could make an informed purchase.

Lightning asked what I am leaning toward now and I am still trying to figure that out. I am trying to weight toxicity with comfort and am still undecided. Anything that is a mattress in this country has to meet fr code, but toppers, blankets, etc do not.  I am considering piling up some toppers and sleeping on that at this point! Sad that it has come to that! :-( 

When I bought a bed 20 years ago, it took me 5 minutes, $350, and it was a wonderful bed for 20 years. Those were the good old days!

There are no Organic mattresses I know of that actually use cotton batting, just cotton covers with usually pure wool underneath.  One of the companies I listed being Natura for instance has a very large range of product....only the Organic line of beds is free of chemical flame retardants...in the non-organic series they contain a small layer of cotton batting which is treated with boric acid for additional fire retardant properties. 

Out of the ones I mentioned I only have experience with a couple...however I would say Green Sleep is overall the top of the list for quality and purity....bit pricey though.  In reality they are all good and the best thing to do is try out what you can find within close proximity to yourself. 

appreciate your expertise on this. in reading the text of 16 1633, there is no mention that organic mattresses are exempt from the fire laws. therefore, they must be using something to be in compliance. the only exemption under the law is for a purchaser to obtain a dr's prescription for a mattress free of fr's and toxic chemicals.

if wool alone was enough to pass, that would be fantastic and i want to believe that.....

The website also has some nice links you might want to check out.

I tried the beds, and they were nice, but all that organic precision comes at a steep price.  I got mine at Flobeds and it's not organic, simply because my latex is blended talalay.  But I'm pretty sure the cover is organic cotton and wool.

wool alone can be enough to pass however you need a fair bit of it.  again it is actually a higher burning point than formaldehyde.  You are right that no mattress is exempt from those laws without a prescription...although in reality there is no way a regular mattress manufacturer would be able to build a mattress that is chemical free if they are still using PU foam and polyester covers since they are literally made from petro chemicals.  With regards to mattresses that already pass these laws without the use of chemicals because of the use of wool a doctors note is what you would require to have them build a mattress without the wool in the case it may cause allergic reactions. 

that still begs the question as to why the sellers of some of the cotton wool covers for latex slabs, for example, feel the need to add silica or other substances, and some don't.  all other things being equal...the latex is the same type, thickness, etc.  yet some of the sellers admit that their covers have fire retardant additives and some sellers say they don't. but for what appears to be a very similar product, if one had to add fr to be 1633 compliant, why not the other?

this is where i am stumped. 

(Googled and still can't remember... I think I learned about it on this forum, so perhaps someone else can remember...)

Good luck!

JB

Edited to add: The silica doesn't bother us--it's a natural substance. But we mostly bought the mattress b/c it was made in the USA of materials made in the USA, rather than b/c of allergy/toxin concerns.

Are you sure that the "Lago" model contains silica?  This site:  www.greencradle.com/organic-mattress-furniture-los-angeles-p/omi-organic-lago-mattress.htm, if you scroll down the page, states that there is NO silica in this mattress. 

Philip

OrganicPedic (OMI)

Nope. Not sure. It was a rumor I saw in a few places. Looks like your source is better, Phillip. 

Finally, I just remembered the online source I was trying to remember: http://www.lifekind.com/

I've heard that these are OMI mattresses that are cheaper, come in layers, and have a 90-day comfort guarantee--they let you swap out layers. Again, kinda wish I went that route, but oh well. I wanted to be able to try the mattress in a store. 

I also tried the GreenSleep mattress at the store, and it was extremely comfortable. I like the idea of the dowel-on-polymer foundation. It is a very expensive mattress, though, and I don't know if it is worth the extra cost. Apparently it has silk as well as wool and cotton in the layers over the latex, and this helps with temperature regulation. On the GreenSleep web site it says that the company uses its own latex process--does that mean it is neither Talalay nor Dunlop? I am still unsure about the whole Talalay vs. Dunlop question. 

Thanks again!