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So I've recently made some changes to my sleepez 10000 bed (see below) and developed lower back pain. My back feels very stiff and sore in the morning, and its very hard to stretch forward (ie to touch my toes); stretching backward feels nice. I sleep mostly on my side and back, I would think the pain is from the back sleeping. Is there any way to tell just from the description if the problem is too firm or too soft support? If not, here is more about the changes I made. I was sleeping on a pretty soft bed, waking up generally stiff and sore, but not usually with real "aches" like this. I had something like this (top to bottom);
After extensive work with Phoenix (see this monster thread if interested - http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/overstuffing-mattress-case-foam-layers/16508-0-1.html) - we essentially decided that all those toppers were doing more harm than good, and that I needed both a softer top comfort layer and a firmer bottom support layer. So I bought a 3" firm dunlop and a 1" soft talalay from sleepez. I now sleep on:
So, looking at the changes, I would guess either I made the top too soft (unlikely since I used a variety of toppers before) or the bottom "support" too firm. But that seems to contradict the testing I did with Phoenix. I suppose its possible that I am simply sleeping on my back more or something; I do think I sleep on my back more that the bed feels a bit firmer. I would sure appreciate any help... Steve |
| The problem seems to be is that there is a big difference between Soft 3" layer and Medium 3", it's basically 10 IDL levels difference. For me having SleepEZ Medium is too firm, but sound like their Soft may be too soft, so I am looking for something in between to try... |
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klas wrote: The problem seems to be is that there is a big difference between Soft 3" layer and Medium 3", it's basically 10 IDL levels difference. For me having SleepEZ Medium is too firm, but sound like their Soft may be too soft, so I am looking for something in between to try... I tend to agree. Flobeds is a bit better in that regard. Not sure if sleepez can get pieces at a desired ILD, like 28. There is a big difference between the soft talalay and the dunlop medium. The medium dunlop would probably be like XF talalay on the flobed scale. So, I think that is okay for the bottom 6", but I personally would not like it in the top 4". as a side sleeper. Back sleepers or stomach sleepers might be a different story. It can work having a firm base and some soft on top. I have slept on pretty firm innersprings with a couple inches of memory foam. However, I always felt like I was bottoming out on that. Now I like a bit of transition between firm and soft. |
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I was told they do not carry 28 IDL, so I am looking to find this somewhere else currently. SLAB has it, but it is a bit expensive... This message was modified Feb 9, 2011 by klas
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klas wrote: The problem seems to be is that there is a big difference between Soft 3" layer and Medium 3", it's basically 10 IDL levels difference. For me having SleepEZ Medium is too firm, but sound like their Soft may be too soft, so I am looking for something in between to try... Well I don't really think the 10 ILD jump is that bad. Remember, when they (anyone) say their foam is X ild that really means something like X + or - 2 (eg a 28 ILD foam might really be 26 to 30 ILD). There's got to be some variation there. So offering foam at say 24 and 28 ilds might not really be feasible. Or at least misleading. In my case there is a very big difference between the soft and medium, but I think thats because my soft is talalay and my medium is dunlop. If you think the sleepez medium is too firm I doubt you would find the soft too soft. Their soft is ~23 ILD, compared to 19 for FloBeds. If you can swap it, its worth a try... |
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Some tips from my current DIY mattress journey: I purchased a 3" Layer of Latex International Blended Talalay in 28ILD by getting the Rejuvinite topper in "Firm" (Firm as a top layer, I guess) from http://www.latexmattresscompany.com/rejuvenite.html . It comes with its own cover that I did not need, and has no return policy, but it was significantly cheaper that way. Also, if you want a softer layer from SleepEZ, then specify that you want Radium Soft instead of LI Soft. I understand the Radium Soft is 20-22ILD, while the LI is 24ILD. That is 10-20% softer. Gary |
| Just realized that my 1.5 inch is softer and according to SZ 28 IDL, so I could just fold it in half and test the concept of having 28 IDL as 3" comfort layer. |
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twalkman wrote: When I was in my late 20's I made the change to sleeping on my back, but now that I'm older my wife insists that I sleep on my side so I don't snore -- and I don't blame her. Funny, I used to sleep on my back and snore too, which is why I changed to side sleeping. But now I use a CPAP (for sleep apnea); that stops snoring, so I can sleep on my back again... Just a note to anyone who snores a lot - if you snore and always feel tired and/or sore, it could be because of apnea. You can go to a sleep center and get tested. Using the CPAP helped me a lot... |
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OK, so here are some pics. The first is me on the soft-tal over medium-dunlop over firm-dunlop. This is a firmer comfig than I am used to and feels firm to me. But when I look at the picture, if anything it looks to soft, right? Hips are definitely sinking in, and lower back looks like its a bit too curved. Doesn't look anything like the "just right" picture below. So, should I try even firmer? Even tho this feels borderline too firm to me, and the only time I really seem to get back problems (in the past) was when I slept on mattresses I felt were clearly too firm? Thanks
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There is a bit of a v angle, but not sure if that is enough to cause back pain? Doesn't look that severe to me. Most of the wieght is in the mid section, so I am not sure if you would be able to totally avoid this. It is easier to make it look straight in a diagram. So, this configurations still causes problems? If so, maybe you have to try even firmer. Have you tried with the medium talalay instead of the soft? |
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sandman wrote:
There is a bit of a v angle, but not sure if that is enough to cause back pain? Doesn't look that severe to me. Most of the wieght is in the mid section, so I am not sure if you would be able to totally avoid this. It is easier to make it look straight in a diagram. So, this configurations still causes problems? If so, maybe you have to try even firmer. Have you tried with the medium talalay instead of the soft? Well my back didn't start to hurt until I bought the dunlop firm and added it to my stack in January. Just woke up one morning (maybe 2-3 weeks after changing it) with a terriible backache. It's getting "better" but it's still a long way from good. Did this config cause the problem? Maybe. Would my back get better faster if I tried another config? Maybe. Like I said, I was sleeping on a much softer config (S-Talalay over M-Talalay over M-Dunlop) before I started changing everything again in January, and that never caused low back problems. On the other hand, all the standard advice and picture evidence seems to say that anything softer would be a big mistake. My plan is to try replacing the S-Talalay with Med-Talalay. But I'm sure I couldn't sleep directly on Medium (even Talalay) so my plan would be to try 1-2 inches of soft over that config. Still waiting on the 1" of supersoft from Sleepez before I try that. I'm hoping 1-2" of soft on top will make it comfortable without compromising support too much. Hopefully more like FloBeds or Custom Design configs... This message was modified Feb 11, 2011 by st3v3k4hn
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