| I've was looking for a new mattress and in my search came across this site. I was just looking for something to give me a better night’s sleep, something to help me feel more rested in the morning. I tend to toss and turn a lot. I saw the posts about mattress surgery and figured if I was going to throw out my mattress why not try some surgery first. My mattress is a 2002 Simmons mattress. I figured I'd just remove everything and was left with just the coils which are in very good condition. As everyone else who has done surgery has noticed there is nothing but cheap foam in the mattress. This was a non flip mattress. On the bottom was 3/4 of an inch of light PU foam. The top had a thin fabric on top of the coils, then the same 3/4 inch light weight foam. On top of that was a 1 additional inch of the same foam. The top layer is comprised of a thin soft egg crate piece, a very soft 1/2 inch foam piece and some fabric all sewn together. I'm trying to figure out what layers to put on top of it. Right now I have the cheap 3/4 inch foam that came with the bed, and a 1 inch latex (32 ILD from FBM). Feels pretty good but can feel the springs a little bit. What good HR foam should I put between the 1" latex and the springs so I don't feel them? I don't want to put too much HR foam and take away from the feel of the springs; I just don't want to feel the springs. I am very happy with the feel of the latex from FBM so I intend to order the HR foam from them. Should I get LUX HQ ,HD36 HQ, LUX Reg - and how thick? Really just looking for the thinnest amount so as to not change the feel of the springs but to not feel the springs, if that makes sense. The 3/4" cheap compresses so much it’s like it’s not there. . Eventually I’m also planning on getting an additional 1" of latex 20ILD on top of the 1" latex 32ILD I have now. I like the feel of latex. The 1" pieces of latex compress a lot and feels soft so I doubt 2" total will be enough to not feel the springs. Definitely think I need this piece of HR foam after the springs. Any recomendations would be appreciated. |
| personally i think because the Simmons coils are conforming and forgiving that just a 2" layer of soft, medium or firm latex depending on your comfort preference could do the trick. I wouldn't worry about the 1/2" layer underneath the coils its a solid bloc foam that is meant to basically never compress and give a good seating edge for the coils. |
| Thanks for the reply Budgy. I intend on adding an additional 1" of latext to the 1" I have already bought. The problem is i don't have any good foam between the latex and the springs. I'm wondering if I should get a piece of HR foam. I don't think 2 " of latex will be enough to not feel the wire. If i fold the latex I have now in half , so its twice as thick, and lay on it I can still feel the springs. Are you saying not to worry about getting a piece of HR Foam (1/2 inch or so) or did you think I had it already ? I know people here really don't like HR foam that much but this piece would be just so I don't feel the outlines of each spring. Or would it be better to get an additional 2" of latex for a total of 3 inches of latex. Would that be enough not to feel the springs? A one inch piece of latex is around 80 dollars while a 1/2" piece of HR foam is 15 dollars. |
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quick question for you....is this a Simmons Beautyrest? Because I have literally laid on the springs with no upholstery and they were fairly comfortable. in which case I dont think you will need to have much more than 2 inches of latex if at all This message was modified May 15, 2010 by budgy
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| Not sure. Can't find that info on the tag. The only # on the tag are PA-25425 / M96001.70.6002 / HillsB . Can't find anything about Beautyrest. The springs are fairly comfortable. The only problem is that the 2" of latex compress enough that you can feel the outline of the individual coils and the wiring holding them together. I don't have any experience with HR foam but I’m thinking a 1/2" piece of HR Foam will not compress very much and because it is so thin it will not alter the movement of the springs. I can try the HR Foam, go with another inch of Latex, or any other option you can recommend. |
| Take a picture of the springs, that should answer Budgy's question. |
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ahh okay, you did actually answer my question...if their is helical wiring holding the coils together and not fabric encased it is not a beautyrest, it is a bonnell or continuous spring. I would recommend doing a really thin layer of something directly over the springs something with a very high abrasion resistance...like coconut coir or rubberized coconut coir. I am not sure if you can buy sheets of it in small quantities but it would be the perfect material to place right over the steel...a thin 1/4" sheet would be more than enough to buffer the feeling of the springs and prevent the latex from getting mashed directly into the coils themselves. This message was modified May 15, 2010 by budgy
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| Thank you for your help. I'm going to get a piece of 1/2 inch LUX HQ as that is the thinest HR foam that FBM sells. I still have the very thin sheet of abbrasive resistant fabric that was orignal over the springs to protect the piece of foam I am going . Any other recomendations besides "coconut coir or rubberized coconut coir" to place on the bottom side of the springs. I'm would like to put my allergy encasement back on but definitly don't want to rip it. In retrospect I should of only removed the top of the mattress but too late to think about that. |
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coir is best. but its probably hard to find it rubberized which you would really want or its gonna shed all over the place. a thin layer of any fibre like cotton and a really tough fabric like berlap to put over it perhaps would also suffice |
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jasesun23 wrote: Thank you for your help. I'm going to get a piece of 1/2 inch LUX HQ as that is the thinest HR foam that FBM sells. I still have the very thin sheet of abbrasive resistant fabric that was orignal over the springs to protect the piece of foam I am going . Any other recomendations besides "coconut coir or rubberized coconut coir" to place on the bottom side of the springs. I'm would like to put my allergy encasement back on but definitly don't want to rip it. In retrospect I should of only removed the top of the mattress but too late to think about that. I am currently using a 1/2" of memory foam on top of my Bonnell coils to soften them a bit and to not ruin the latex on top of them. Even with Bonnell coils, 2" can be enough for some people. Depends on your weight and so on. I'm using the 1/2" of memory foam, then 3/4" of latex and then .9" of latex and then a 2" wool topper that compresses down to about 1/2". So that's all in all, a padding of less than 2 and 1/4" of foam and then the wool on top of that, and the 1/2" of memory foam probably can count as about 1/4" as it compresses down into the springs... |
| Thanks for the reply Jim. I'd put a picture up of the coil system but I don't think the forum will host a picture, I would have to put in up on another site and then link it. After reading a little bit about coils I'm pretty sure this is a cheaper bonnell system. The coils are individual pieces of wire laid out in rows. It’s not one piece per row so it is not a continuous and there is no fabric so it is not a pocket coil. The wires do not look that thick but I cannot with certainty tell the gauge. The mattress was only 400 or so dollars when I got it, I doubt it’s anything good, was also 8 years ago. I'm looking for a better night’s sleep so why not try the surgery. It is kind of fun opening it up and seeing how companies use cheap stuff and then sell it for a lots of money. Plus buying layers in 1" increments you can find what works the best for you. Since I am really just playing around with this I'm trying not to spend that much money. This is the reason I'm using FBM is they are very competitively priced. So for my budget mattress surgery I'm going to end up with the coil system (already had), 1" 32IDL latex ($80 FBM) , 1"20 IDL latex ($75 FBM) , cuddlebed ($35 Costco). The cuddlebed is not foam correct? Its just polyester fibers like my pillows from what i understand. The only missing piece is the layer between the latex and the springs. 2 inches of latex and then the springs will not work for me. It’s not that it is uncomfortable, it’s just that the latex compresses enough that I can feel the outline of the springs. So that is where the 1/2" layer of HR foam would come in. I know you said some companies put memory foam as this layer. In my mind memory foam would compress more than the HR Foam and not do that job as well. It would also cost a lot more. The main job of this layer would be to prevent the layers of latex from sinking through the spaces in the wires while minimally affecting the firmness/softness of the actual set up.. For a second I was thinking just to put some corrugated cardboard as the layer above the springs. Do you think the HR foam is a bad idea? I know you are not a fan. |
| Probably just going to return the cuddlebed as soon as i get it. I'm really liking the feel of the latex. Springy and soft at the same time. And I don't think it sleeps hot at all. |
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jimsocal wrote: I am currently using a 1/2" of memory foam on top of my Bonnell coils to soften them a bit and to not ruin the latex on top of them. Even with Bonnell coils, 2" can be enough for some people. Depends on your weight and so on. I'm using the 1/2" of memory foam, then 3/4" of latex and then .9" of latex and then a 2" wool topper that compresses down to about 1/2". So that's all in all, a padding of less than 2 and 1/4" of foam and then the wool on top of that, and the 1/2" of memory foam probably can count as about 1/4" as it compresses down into the springs... |
| Out of curiosity I counted the springs. Head to toe the rows have 30 coils. Left to right the rows have 26 coils each. Assuming all rows are equal (only counted two rows each way) I come up with 780 coils. Also the springs don't really have an hourglass shape. The look to be twisted the same circumference from bottom to top. |
| what size of mattress is this? |
| Ah forgot that key point. It is a queen sized mattress. |
| hrrrm may be a continuous coil in the end....guess there are some differences in the product in the states and canada. |
Guess this would have been the easiest way from the start. Is this a continuous coil? I through from researching a continuous coil was a single wire along a whole row. Each coil is made from a single cut piece of wire and is held to the next coil with additional wire. Sorry these were the best pictures my camera phone could get. |
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nope im wrong yet again...this just shows you how different this stuff can be from one region to another. that is a double offset coil. very similar to what sealy used to use in their posturepedics. so I was batting 0 for 2 on my guesses lol. This message was modified May 18, 2010 by budgy
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So that is not a bad spring, is it, Budgy? As I recall you said that Sealy offset springs were pretty good? Or am I mistaken? Hey Budgy, if I may interject a question here that is unrelated, is there a good way to soften my springs? Could I walk on them? If so, should I walk with just a thin layer of HR foam (1/2") or what? I really feel they are too stiff for me. If I was working I'd go out and buy new springs, but I'm not so... Jasesun: I'm not against HR or HD foam per se. I used it for a long time. I still have a lot of it around so sometimes when I decide my mattress could be better I try it. My wife is using a 1/2" layer of 45ILD next to the springs and a 1" layer of 32ILD or so under her latex and memory foam layers and her bed feels better than mine. I think it's her Sealy springs though that I like better than my Englander springs. I used the 3/4" or so of memory foam right on my springs, to soften up the feel of the springs a bit and it seems to work. Like you say, the thing about HR is that it's cheap, especially where I get mine (a nearby furniture foam warehouse). But I do think latex is better if you can afford it. For experimenting it may be just fine and who knows maybe it will last a while for you. Just remember that if you mattress suddenly begins to not feel right after it was feeling right, then it could be due to the HR foam having given out. |
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in many respects this is actually a very good coil. for those who have a preference to stay away from really high end pocket coils this would be one of the best remaining options. there really isn't any way that you can soften the steel....if it becomes softer over time its really just the metal fatiguing which isn't really a good thing. |
| Jim you should steal your wifes springs, maybe she won't notice. I have two 1/4" peices of LUX regular 50 IDL foam / 1.8 density as well as 1" 20IDL latex on its way. The plan is the springs, 1/4" piece of HR foam, 1" latex 32 IDL, 1" latex 20 IDL, cuddle bed. I'll have it all by Thursday. Not sure i'll be keeping the cuddlebed as I'm liking the feel of the latex with just a cotton sheet on top. But I'll give it a try since costco takes everything back. The other piece of 1/4" LUX reg is for the bottom of the springs so I can encase the whole thing in an allergy cover. I'll see how it works out. |
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budgy wrote: in many respects this is actually a very good coil. for those who have a preference to stay away from really high end pocket coils this would be one of the best remaining options. there really isn't any way that you can soften the steel....if it becomes softer over time its really just the metal fatiguing which isn't really a good thing. Can you actually see the steel dip in the middle like I have seen someone's pictures on this forum? I believe that was a new mattress and I always feel like they make them half as good as they use to. Half as strong I should say. |
| My mattress is 8 years old. It was the non flip mattress type. But now looking at the springs I can't tell why I wouldn't be able to flip the springs and use the other side if I was so inclined to do so. The bottom seems to be identical to the top. In its original form the top had much more foam as well as quilting so of course you could only use one side. Makes me think the only difference between a flippable mattress and a non flippable would be the padding they used. By using less material on one side they would save money and the mattress life would be shorter. This makes good business sense if your only goal is to maximize profits. |
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Every time metal is under load it is being stressed and fatigued, even if the load is miniscule. How thick the wire is and how strong the steel is are really the limiting factors on how long you can keep a coil.....but no one can really answer that. I would say so long as the coils are essentially level they have not changed dramatically. And yes this coil is not non-flip specific. However because the coil is basically symmetrical. There is no need to flip the coil either...the working wire (the coils that are not on the ends of the spring) are the parts of the coil itself that will actually provide your support, once these have started to collapse they will collapse evenly among each coiling. You might want to use the coil on the other side now since it will give the helical lacing wires that were on the top a chance to rest so to speak. |
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jasesun23 wrote: Jim you should steal your wifes springs, maybe she won't notice. I have two 1/4" peices of LUX regular 50 IDL foam / 1.8 density as well as 1" 20IDL latex on its way. The plan is the springs, 1/4" piece of HR foam, 1" latex 32 IDL, 1" latex 20 IDL, cuddle bed. I'll have it all by Thursday. Not sure i'll be keeping the cuddlebed as I'm liking the feel of the latex with just a cotton sheet on top. But I'll give it a try since costco takes everything back. The other piece of 1/4" LUX reg is for the bottom of the springs so I can encase the whole thing in an allergy cover. I'll see how it works out. As to stealing my wife's springs, she does notice! She finds my mattress too firm as I do, and she also has back problems so I have to just get new springs for me, eventually, when I can afford it. I'll buy the offset Sealy springs that are like yours - or whoever has a similar spring the cheapest. OR, depending on how much money I have, I might try a custom built bed by some small manufacturer. Some day I may get just the right combination of springs and foam! This message was modified May 19, 2010 by jimsocal
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