|
First, thanks to all contributiors for the very helpful information in this forum. Reading through various posts I have been able to approach buying a latex topper from a much more knowledgeable position. Before making a final purchase though, I would like to run by what I have found out. I live in Nicaragua and shipping costs/delays and customs make returning a topper for exchange or refund an expensive and lengthy process. Your advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Background: My wife and I have a 5 year old Queen size mattress that still appears to be in good shape - no dips, bumps or springs poking through and foam topping still seems resilent. It was manufactured by Indufoam (El Salvador for Central American market) and is non-flip, bonnel spring based, foam topped (approx. 1 1/2" of who knows what kind of foam). The mattress was bought as a firm mattress and we have been (until recent months) very happy with it. I think the problem is we are showing our age (59,60) moreso than the mattress. We are 5'11"/5'8" and 185/140 lbs respectively and generally side sleepers. Starting about 10 months ago my wife started feeling hip pain when sleeping and I have recently developed busitis in my hips and am feeling hip pain when sleeping on my side as well. For both of us the pain is sufficient to wake us up and make for a very restless night. When travelling and staying in hotels we have noticed that toppers (foam or foam/feather combo - type unknown) with a thickness of about 1.5"-2" have been very comfortable (ie. no hip pain or greatly reduced). I think a topper of 2" would be right for us and I like the idea expressed by some on this forum to combine 2 one inch layers of different ILDs instead of a single 2" topper (a chance to shuffle layers if not exactly right, important given the difficulty in our case to exchange layers). What I have found out: Lots of vendors out there and thanks to this forum I was able to narrow it down to a few that seemed reputable, knowledgeable and more customer focused than others. SleepEZ - talked with Shaun; very helpful. Recommended a blended Talalay; two 1" layers - one 20 ILD and the other 30 ILD. Said that in 1" stock all they had were 20 and 30 ILD. Sleep Like A Bear - talked with Evelyn; very helpful. Recommended (leaned toward) a blended Talalay (also have 100% Natural Talalay and Celsion Talalay); two 1" layers - one 14 ILD and the other 19 ILD. Liked everthing about SLAB (customer service, price OK, warranty, knowledge, web site, etc) but their recommendation seems to be on the soft side. We like a firm feel in a bed; we just want to relieve pressure points on our hips. foamsource - talked with Casey; helpful, if you have the right questions. Recommended a 100% natural Talalay (also have a 100% natural? Dunlop topper); one 2" layer of 30-34 ILD (only have 2" and 3" toppers in 22-26 soft, 30-34 medium and 38-42 firm). Plushbeds - talked with Michael; helpful, if you have the right questions. Recommended a 100% natural Talalay (only option); one 2" layer of 24-26 ILD (only have 2" and 3" toppers in 18-21 super soft, 24-26 medium and 34-36 firm). Rocky Mountain Mattress - couldn't get past their call center. They only take messages and then RMM returns calls. Since we can only make calls through Skype this doesn't work for us. (email an akward option as well) Your comments, suggestions: Except for SLAB, the general consensus from the above vendors (and others not on my short list for various reasons) for our weight and situation (like firm mattress but want some plushness for pressure point/hip pain relief) seems to be a single, 2" topper in the mid 20s low 30s ILD. For two 1" toppers it seems to be one in the 18-21 ILD range and the other in the 28-32 ILD range. Some of these recommendations could be restricted by limited stock. I liked Sleep Like A Bear. They had the widest selection of stock however the suggested ILDs seemed on the soft side compared to what othes in this forum have experienced and the recommendations of other vendors. Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. Also, for shipping purposes, I've been told that the shipping weight and dimensions for 2" of Queen topper (or 2 1" toppers combined) range from 20lbs and 5"x18"x24" (SLAB) to 30-40lbs and 17"x17"x38" (SleepEZ). Friends from the US are visiting us and said they would deliver the toppers as one of their checked luggage items. As long as the weight is less than 50lbs its OK. The maximum dimension (without an oversize charge) is 62" (length + width + height). SLAB is the only one that qualifies on dimension but their package seems very small compared to nearly everybody else who are more in SleepEZ's range. Your experience with shipping dimensions and weight would also be appreciated. Thanks for taking a look at my post. I hope that through it and your replies it will add to the collection of helpful info in this forum. I'll be sure to post my decision and also to follow up with updates on how the toppers are working out. This message was modified Apr 2, 2011 by Morpheus
|
|
There are really 2 ways to make a mattress feel firm. One is to use an inch or two of soft foam over very firm springs. This feels firm because you are "going through" the soft foam and feeling the firm springs. The second way is to use firmer foam over springs that are not quite so firm. In looking at the Indufoam website ... it seems like they are closer to the second approach. I also have to say they have gone through quite a "journey" ... as have many in Central America I'm sure. If your mattress was using firm foam ... then the problem could be either that it has softened somewhat ... or you have ... over the course of 5 years. Perhaps a combination of both. If the foam has softened, then what could be happening is that you are sinking through it onto the springs and this is causing the pressure. If it hasn't then the foam itself is now too firm for you. What I would do first to test this (if you haven't already done this recently) would be to turn the mattress 180 degrees to test if the softness (which would feel firm) is just in the spot you normally sleep on. If you can confirm that the foam is still firm and both ways feel the same, then I would tend to side with Evelyn at SLAB since latex in the high 20's or low 30's is probably firmer than the foam that is already causing the problem. In other words I would go with 2" under 22 or so. 19 would seem like a good choice for 1" and whether the second inch should be slightly firmer (say 22-24) or softer (the softest they have at 14) would be based on your intuition and experience. It sounds like you like a plush "hotel type" topper though over something firmer so I would probably lean to softer. But test with turning your mattress first since what is "best" can depend a lot on what is under the topper. Phoenix PS: A 2" queen size topper is about 5.6 Cu. ft. (60" x 80" x 2" / 1728 (cu. in. per cu. ft.)). If you use 4.0 lbs/cu. ft. as an average (Talalay weighs less than Dunlop and firmer weighs more than softer in both) then the weight would be @22 lbs. Packaging material would add to this as would higher density and Talalay/Dunlop choice. The actual size of the package would depend on the outlet and they would likely be giving you accurate information. SLAB's would be lighter (and smaller) because of the very low ILD (density) in Talalay they quoted you. This message was modified Jan 13, 2011 by Phoenix
|
| Thanks Phoenix for the suggestion and foam specs. We'll flip it around and try it out a few nights, see if it makes a difference, and report back. |
|
After four nights the mattress seems a bit more comfortable in the shoulder/torso part of our bods, after being flipped head-for-foot. The hip pain issue though has not been appreciably reduced. Support (and "softness") for back-sleeping is still very comfortable and by all means we want to avoid "hammocking" (or swayback when rarely on front) through the addition of any topper. So, the challenge is still to reduce pressure points on our hips to the greatest extent possible. The suggestion for a 1" layer of 19 ILD Talalay seems fine. I'm tossing around the other 1" layer though - 14 or 24. I get a sense from the forum that 14 ILD (combined with the 19 ILD) may be too soft for at least my weight (185 lbs) but may be OK for my wife (145 lbs). Latex Int describes 14 ILD as super plush and other members give the impression that in a 1" thickness it is practically "nothing". Given that the mattress seems to provide the support that we need, I think that we are looking at the topper to provide more of a cradling experience (but not totally sinking in) rather than support (please correct me if I'm getting things confused). My inclination therefore, assisted by other posts, is to go for the 24 ILD. If anyone can help give me a more direct sense of the difference between a 1" 14 ILD and 1" 19 ILD and then between 1" 19 ILD and 1" 24 ILD I would appreciate your comments. And, I'm curious to know if anybody has split a topper (or two) for a queen size bed. So in addition to shuffling the 19 ILD and 24 ILD layers, would it be possible to cut the layers in half length-wise so that I could have one side of the bed 19-19 and the other 24-24? (perhaps after doubling them over first on a temporary basis). Neither of us ever sleep in the center of the bed so sleeping on a "crack" wouldn't be an issue. But would there be a risk of such an alteration adversely affecting the "structural"/performance properties of the foam (for lack of a better way of explaining this)? And yes this would invalidate any warranty but frankly with the cost of shipping a topper back to the US from Nicaragua (and back again), plus dealing with customs, it's doubtful I'd make any warranty claims anyway. All the more important to go with a product/vendor of known quality and getting it right the first time (or very close). |
|
To give you some "rough" equivalents ... 14 ILD is "about" the same softness as many memory foams (which are usually aroung 12-15) however it is much more supportive (pushes back). Memory foam also changes it's ILD according to heat and humidity. Memory foam and latex are also difficult to compare since they do what they do through completely different methods but this may give you "sort of" a reference. 14 ILD is also firmer than much of the polyfoam that is used in the top of "typical" mattresses ... even some firm ones (probably not yours) ... and is also much more supportive than the polyfoam as well. Having said that ... 1" by itself of any ILD ... is never really supportive and how it performs will always be in combination with how it affects the layers below (or above) it. Over a firm layer for example it may feel like "nothing" since you would still feel the firmness of the foam underneath but as an additional soft layer it may feel "just right" as it has just enough effect in combination with layers below it to create the perfect cradle. 14 is more inherently "pressure relieving" than 19. 24 is getting to the border of "too firm" for the best pressure relief (it is right at the edge of what works for me and my other half for example). I am 6'5" 195 and she is 5'7" and @130 both back and side sleepers. Your idea about cutting it in half is a good one and fairly easy to do apparently with an electric knife (I've never tried but lots have). I would make sure that you bought your 2 one inch layers as bare layers and then buy a cover or at least make sure the cover is removable so you don't have to cut it to remove the foam. My tendency in your case would normally be to buy a 2" 19 ILD topper but given your circumstances the small increments and flexibility gained by getting 2 layers is probably better. 2 separate layers will "act" softer than a single 2" layer but you also gain the flexibility to use only one inch if that is all you need (it seems you are close as your back sleeping seems OK). If 1" works then it would likely be better than 2" for alignment. I wish I knew more exactly what was already on top of your mattress as this makes a difference but given your feedback and the "progressive nature" of the pressure issues you may be facing (you may need even softer or more pressure relief over time) ... I would probably say that 19 and 14 may be "better" but that 19 and 24 may be "safer". I know that this is "waffling" but it's not really possible for me to be more certain given the "unkowns". Phoenix This message was modified Jan 17, 2011 by Phoenix
|
|
People have cut latex and memory foam before. I don't think it will cause any structural problems. Some have said that electric carving knife works pretty well on latex. Note that edges of foam can feel a bit softer, so this might make the middle of your bed a bit softer. If you know that you want different toppers on each side, you can also consider buying twin XL pieces and trimming off a little to make them the right width. It is very subjective as to what you will like as the top comfort layers. I use 1" of 19 ILD over 1" of 5.9lb memory foam over 1" of 24 latex right now. I am a side sleeper and want a reasonable amount of pressure relief. I would note that I have a wool topper above those 2 layers, which adds a bit of firmness (less sinking in). |
|
Phoenix, Sandman, Thanks for your suggestions. And not waffling at all. If it hadn't been for your help and that of the forum in general I'd probably have bought something in the 28-34 range and quite possibly regretted it. For sure my wife would have. Putting 14 ILD in the context of something somewhat more tangible to me was very helpful. If 24 ILD is on the border for your weight and likely mine then it would probably have been too much (too firm) for her. She's suffering the most and I know would appreciate a more plush performance characteristic than I. So 14-19 it is and SLAB was the only vendor to suggest this (admittedly some other vendors were limited by limited stock, but didn't seem to think so, and were quite willing to sell what they had, right or wrong). Didn't think of it but, Sandman, I like your idea of cutting down a twin XL - just one for my side, and a 24 ILD to replace either the 14 or 19 if that combo proves too soft for me. If my wife's happy I'm happy and can probably live with 14-19 until friends visit down our way again and can donate some luggage space. Our friends don't arrive until mid Feb so it'll be at least a 4-5 weeks before I can report back how it has worked out. Until then, Adios amigos, and thanks. |
|
Just to close this thread out. We have had the toppers for about a month. The results have been fantastic. I used to wake up several times a night due to pain in my hips and try to find a comfortable position. This rarely happens now and when it does its a relatively minor level of discomfort. The improvement for my wife is even greater. She used to wake up almost in tears and for the last month nada, waking up well rested and ready for the day. Even after the first few nights we slept much better. I did change the ILDs of the toppers though and went with the 19 and 24 one inch Talalay toppers from Sleep Like A Bear. I just had a gut feeling that the 14-19 combo would be too soft. In fact when I first opened the packages and squeezed the toppers between my fingers I thought oops, screwed this up and should have gone even firmer. However, on the bed with the 19 over the 24, it worked very well--no pressure points on hips and shoulders and yet when lying on our sides there was also support for the rib area, thighs and lower legs. The toppers were comfortably supportive over our whole body length and even though a tiny bit "cradling" do not feel overly plush. Similarly, sleeping on our backs, the support is great, with no sagging (swaybacking) under the center of our backs. All in all, the original mattress was still in good condition except that the top foam layer had probably deteriorated (as had our joints as well). The toppers replaced the function of the original foam layer or, rather, exceeded/excelled in the function of top foam layer. And, if it wasn't for the fact that it was practically impossible for me to return the toppers (live in Nicaragua) I would probably have gone with the 14-19 ILD combo, for a more "plush" feel. But, then again, the 19-24 combo did the trick and we're happy. A final note. We are very happy with the toppers from Sleep Like A Bear. Evelyn, the customer service rep with whom I dealt with was very helpful. Even when UPS was screwing up the delivery she got onto them about the urgency of getting our particular shipment delivered (after 12 days in transit somewhere in south western US, our friend had to track down the UPS truck in a mall parking lot on her way to the airport to catch her flight to visit us, and deliver the toppers). |
|
Morpheus, so glad the soft toppers helped. I never had cushion or toppers over my firm mattresses in the past until I bought my first latex bed in 2007 and I love having a soft topper with firmness underneath that really makes for a good night's sleep. Thanks for the update and so glad it worked out for you and your wife. Eating dinner as I wait for my next client. I love happy endings. |