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This is my first post. I’ve read most of this forum posts (including legacy) re latex mattresses. So……..Help!!! I’ve fallen prey to an engineers’ nightmare “Analysis Paralysis”. It’s time to purchase a new eastern king mattress. Currently we’re sleeping on an 8 yr old Serta Perfect Night (non-pillow top, no-flip) approximately 15” thick which has developed body ruts about 1.5”-2” deep on both sided with the complimentary continental divide (we call it Puff-A-Lump) in the middle. I’m 5’11”, 265lbs, 58yrs old and the lovely wife is 5’4”, 180lbs, also 58yrs old. (I know….for Christmas we joined the YMCA and are using it regularly so these weights WILL be reduced). We’re pretty active, despite what the weight would allude (riding bikes > 30 miles every weekend in the summer, walking ~1.5 miles/night 3X a week summer or winter in addition to now utilizing the Y membership 4-5 times a week) We’ve decided to go Latex this time and found a bed we both could agree on but there’s no way either of us would cough up the $7K the retailer quoted (Pranasleep Wahe Guru Luxury Firm). That drove me to attempt to find a comparable quality bed at a reasonable price. I found most of this forums' posters attempting to construct their own chose either SleepEZ or FloBeds. We’re leaning towards FloBeds (more exchanges for 90Days). Then is when I may have started to over-analyze…Natural versus Blended (natural/synthetic) (I jokingly call my wife “bubble woman” because of all the things she’s allergic to of which latex is not one), Dunlop versus Talalay. I know FloBed only uses Talalay but I’m sure you know the drill. I did the FloBed firmness advisor and came to F/XF/XF and M/F/F which Dewey suggested be changed to M/F/XF (we agree, would prefer a firm bed). Then I ruminated about the convoluted 2” soft layer on top. Should this be solid instead of convoluted? OR should I attempt to further replicate the Pranasleep feel (top layer is 2” Talalay 10ILD and cover contains Outlast) by purchasing a 2” Latex International Celsion topper in 15ILD to replace the convoluted foam? I even tried to get information from Latex International regarding Talatech and if they source different grades to different vendors or does everyone get the same quality in other words does Talatech come in different qualities (Not ILD but perhaps different ratio of Natural/Synthetic). Please help J |
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Flobeds uses Natural Talalay and blended Talalay. You more than likely want firm. I am even leaning towards firm. I am 5' 10 1/2" 170 lbs. and I have been using latex toppers that are too soft. Natural Talalay is firmer, use the search on this forum to read about this. I don't know, I am only telling you what I have read here. Everyone will tell you call and ask questions. I am at the over 1 year of researching stage myself of trying latex toppers. Good luck.. P.S. Latex International does make different grades of latex. They even make the all synthetic latex that is put in mattress makers I believe Sealey. I have read bad reviews about those. Not sure if they put PU in those. But don't go near them. LI makes blended and natural latex. They bought another company recently so who knows what else they make. This message was modified Feb 25, 2010 by Leo3
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Thanks Leo3 I kind of thought that Latax Internationa; had different grades because in the video the state that they can control pour pattern & compound quantity from the touchpad. I would like to know I'm not paying too much for an inferior grade though. I can't lay on the product till after I put the money down. The Wahe Guru was nice but that $7000 would be really really hard to justify. |
| The only latex bed I have ever seen that can justify a price close to that is the Green Sleep Vimala. But based on what I just read about that Prana sleep there are MANY options priced at half the cost that are probably just as good or even better. Flobeds certainly comes to mind as being one of them that a lot of people on this forum have tried with a lot of success. |
Yea but we're coming from an almost 15" mattress sitting on about 10" boxsprings which are sitting on the wood bed rails about 5" off the floor. (I know it sounds like you need a step ladder to get in but we've got used to it over the last 8 yrs . The FloBed Natural Deluxe would lower that about 3". Hope we can still use all the high falutin sheets the wife accumulted |
| a custom made egpytian cotton fitted sheet in king size will probably run you tops of around $250. Seems like a small price to pay when you consider the alternative mattress you were looking at :) |
Good call. |
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I'll step in here as a Flobeds owner. First of all, I can't even imagine paying more than the Flobeds price for an all-latex mattress, because 1) Flobeds uses LI latex, which is generally acknowledged to be the best quality Talalay latex out there, so what is so special that costs more than twice as much in the other mattress, and 2) Your mattress has a zippered cotton and wool cover, which allows the engineer in you to swap out layers if the initial setup isn't *just* right (by the way, swapping layers in unbelievably easy, and the shipping is not expensive at all - I swapped a layer and it was $20 shipping). 3) The return and exchange policy is unbeatable For the record, I am a similar height and weight to you, and Flobeds also recommended a F/XF/XF for me (and for the sake of convenience, my husband just got the same thing for his side). I ended up swapping my Firm layer for another Extra Firm, so now I have XF/XF/XF, and it feels pretty firm, but there *is* a little give. Sometimes when I want a slightly softer feel I steal my husband's side of the bed, but all in all I've found the XF/XF/XF to be comfortable and supportive. As to the Dunlop vs. Talalay debate, that is something you'll have to decide for yourself. Some people here prefer Dunlop, some prefer Talalay. Flobeds has a nice little video on their site where they unpacked a layer of Dunlop and a layer of Talalay that had both been compressed in storage for five years. The Talalay sprung back to life like it was just freshly made, and the Dunlop stayed compressed and did not recover nearly as well. That alone sold me on the Talalay. However, I've also lain on a Dunlop mattress and found it felt "lifeless." As to the "all natural" vs "blended" debate, most people on this forum are advocates of the all natural. LI's website promotes the blended as being a more consistent and long-lasting product. If you look at various vendor websites, they will all promote their point of view without a shred of documented or scientific evidence that one is better than the other. If you like the idea of "100% natural" then get the natural. If you choose to believe LI, get the blended. There are plenty of "non-natural" processes that go into making both. One thing I think people have established on this site is that the 100% natural is denser than the blended and that has led people to speculate whether a lower ILD is needed in the natural to achieve the same firmness as the blended - or conversely, whether, to achieve a certain firmness in the blended, you have to get a higher ILD than you would have gotten in the natural. I don't know the answer to that. I have the blended. I've been very happy with it so far. As to the convoluted topper, I can't speak to that either. I would say, why fix what isn't broken until you've tried the topper that comes with the bed. If you don't like the feel of the topper once you get it, then switch it out for something else. It sounds like you haven't ordered one yet, so it doesn't make much sense to go changing things around when you don't know yet whether the standard configuration is comfortable for you. One thing I *will* say is that if you get a mattress protector of any kind, that *can* significantly alter the feel of the latex. I had one of those thin terry cloth protectors with a non-permeable membrane on my mattress, and it *totally* changed the feel. I took it off and am pondering what to do next on that front. |
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Thanks for the input KimberlyH. I wondered if I should up that third core to xfirm....I mainly am a side sleeper so I thought that suggested softer rather than firmer ( at least in the cores). As for the celsion topper, the Wahe Guru has what they call a 2" pranasleep pad which is a proprietary formula resulting in an ILD of 10. Then the include Outlast ( a phase change material) into th cover. The celsion has an ILD of 15 which is closer than the 18-22 for soft talalay and is also suppost to be somewhat of a phase change material. Since you've purchased a FloBed, maybe you can answer this (I forgot to ask Dewey |
): Can you request Core ILD's to be at the top of the range or do you get what is on the top of the Xfirm stack? |
You can certainly ask for specific ILDs. Mine happen to be 36 ILD, which I meant to mention. I forget what my husband's Firm layer is, it's either 32 or 34. And for god's sake, I wouldn't put anything in your bed that isn't 100% latex until you've tried 100% latex. FYI, I'm a side sleeper too, and I suffered from hip pain/numbness/tingling/etc with my old mattress. I haven't had any of that since getting the Flobed. Like I said, although it is very firm, it's resiliant, so it won't "push back" on your hips when your hips push down into the latex. And for god's sake, I wouldn't get any of that stuff to go with your Flobed, at least not until you've tried the 100% latex configuration. I do understand that Celsion is an LI latex product. Also, if you weigh that much, I think toppers with an ILD that low will be pretty much useless to you. The convoluted layer is supposed to be 22 ILD, but I think I've heard that since it's convoluted, the effective ILD is somewhere in the 12-15 range. I would just get it as sold and see how it feels before adding extra ingredients to the mix. Just a piece of advice from a good cook :) |
| I did ask for an X-Firm core at the top of the range of firmness. I waited until Dave was able to get in a new shipment and send me such a core. I am a side sleeper and none of my cores are less than X-Firm from FloBeds. My bottom cores are the blended 44 ILD's with one core at a little bit higher ILD rating. My middle and top latex cores are the all natural Talalay Latex cores. I could not sleep on anything for the long-term that was softer than an ILD softer than 35 ILD rating (one of my cores is this since it was a prettier core I kept and exchanged a core I should have kept). I initially did not realize I was so sensitive to ILD ratings so I thought a few ILD's differences would not matter but my back could tell since I had a car accident a few years ago and now I need the bed as firm as possible but with a little bit of give to take pressure off of my hips and shoulders as I can only fall asleep sleeping on my side. I also had to test so many natural latex pillows to get the two that had the right height for me and now I sleep well and comfortable. I had to take any mattress covering off of my bed except for the fitted sheet since it changed the way the latex felt. My pillows are from Overstock.com and they have nice pillows but some are thicker than others and I wanted the slimmer ones due to my petite size. I also have sheets from FloBeds that are nice. I have learned that I can't sleep on any thread count less than 300. I had tried a Dunlap topper Dave sent to me but it was too firm and I preferred the way a thinner Talalay Latex topper felt so I have a 1" topper on my bed. I am sure if I was bigger I would have loved the convoluted topper that came with the bed but I did not sink in enough to get the support I needed being not quite 5 feet. |
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Good info, We , my wife and I, don't have any body structural issues yet so we're replacing the Perfect Night to mitigate our mattress causing that. What I was attempting with the LI Celsion latex was to replicate the construction of the Wahe Guru (more so for my wife than myself, she looooved the Wahe Plush...said it was like laying on a cloud) I compromised on the Wahe Guru Luxury Firm (same core, less plush, but still the same $7K price) I'm worried that if I go too much different in ILD's (left side/ right side) we'll end up eventually with a noticable ridge in the middle (anyone have "data" on this?) Almost ready to order, just got to get all the ducks in a row, dot the I's, cross the T's and present my proposal to the boss (my lovely wife, whom I'm lucky to have....she even puts up with me and my analytical obsessions |
) | I notice no ridge in between my sides at all as long as you are getting the same blended or the same natural latex. The natural latex cores are 3.0" deep while the blended latex is 2.8" deep so when I decided to try one blended 44 ILD core, I needed to order a second one so each side had one latex core to be even with the topper over them. |
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Hi Lynn2006, What made you want to try the 44ILD (SF)? Did you find the XF natural too soft? I am considering a natural XF/XF/F, XF/F/M this covered bu the 2" convoluted topper. I'm still worried the XF/XF/F may not support my 275lbs so I had the SF in the back of my mind as option I might have to swap to. That would necessitate also swapping the wifes XF natural to a XF blended to maintain a balanced side height. |
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Today was sheet changing day for me, and for the past few nights I haven't been as comfortable as ususal on my xf/xf/xf bed. For all my back issues and weight, those three XF layers feel awfully firm some days. And as a reminder, I weigh about the same as you, so I wouldn't worry about XF not being supportive enough. Hubby grouches at me when I take his side of the bed to get the softer feel, so I thought "What the hey" and took sheet changing day as an opportunity to switch my XF layer for hubby's F layer. He'll never notice the difference  Checked all the ILDs too. All of my XF are 36 and hubby's F layer is 32. And the convoluted topper, much to my surprise, was 32 (but since it's convoluted it's effective ILD is much lower).Some people have posted about wanting a solid topper instead of the convoluted, and I confess I have wondered what difference a solid topper would make too - so I put the convoluted topper face down, with the convolutions facing the cores and the smooth side on top. Another reason I switched things around is that my bed doesn't have quite as much "bouncy" feel as I would like. Anyway, I'll try this new configuration for a week or two and see how it feels. Anyway, pull the trigger, get *something,* and let us know how you like it! |
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BTW here's the link to Flobed's "Dunlop vs. Talalay" review: http://www.flobeds.com/TalalayVsDunlop.htm |
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After my car accident, I need my bed to be even firmer and Dave allowed a few more exchanges after the 90 days due to the unforseen circumstance of getting hit from behind and now having a hurt back. So I exchanged two 36 ILD cores for two 44 ILD cores with one firmer than the other and I like it this way. The soft little bit of cushion is perfect for me. Everyone is different and we all have different needs. I can not sleep directly on a 36 ILD latex core without the topper since it is just too firm but with the soft topper, I like the two 44 ILD's on the bottom to keep the bed as firm as possible on the slat pine box that I bought from FloBeds.com. |
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Hi, this is a question for Kimberly or anyone who has had a flobeds, sleepez or similar bed for a while. I'm close to making a decision on buying a latex mattress, maybe from Flobeds or Sleepez. If you have owned your bed for at least a few months, I was hoping you could comment on a couple of things. Hardly anyone reviews their mattress a year later or 2-3 years later. First, Could you tell me when you got your mattress? Could you comment on how well your Flobeds mattress cover (not the mattress protector) made by Flobeds has held up. Is is fairly tight and has it stayed that way? One thing I don't want to have is a wrinkled mattress cover under the sheets. That's one thing I like about the traditional mattresses--the top is smooth and taut. If you have a bed split down the middle can you feel the split or do you have a topper that goes all the way across? Thanks for any help you can give. |
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Slidenkohl, I own a FloBed Latex Queen Size split core bed over the pine slat box they sell. I bought my latex bed in May 2007. My mattress cover from FloBeds has held up very nicely and is still snug with no wrinkles on top. I have split cores and do to the way they fit snuggle together with the queen size topper over them, I can not feel the the split in the middle of the bed. I love the split cores since it makes the layers easier to move around when the zippered mattress cover is unzipped (they are still heavy) and the slat box is split also to allow it to be easier to move out of the room if it is needed to be for new floors, moving, etc. |