Mattress Forum

I don't think you need to go for a mattress that is at least 10" height.  If you have really good materials in it, even 8" can be very effective.

My SleepEZ 10000 has three 2.8" layers of latex, which is 8.4".  The cover doesn't add much height, so overall it's just about 9".  Don't feel like I need another layers of latex in there (190 lbs).  The other thing is, having 4 layers of latex means you just have to deal with more latex as in stacking 4 layers in (8 for Queen/King).  No to spoil things, but there is a little bit of work involved in unpacking latex and massaging it into position.  Pretty much can't just stand a latex mattress on its side either.  They have no stiffness, so they just flop over. 

But, the latex mattresses offer a lot of support with quite a bit of softness at same time.  I didn't like my all latex mattress on wood slat foundation much at all - it had bad pressure on hips and shoulders.  But, it's pretty good on a good box spring for me.

As to which layers would be best for both of you, you'd get the recommendation from, say, Shawn at SleepEZ based on your weights, etc ... Probably wouldn't take long to adjust to sleeping on latex coming from innerspring.  Might need to switch to thinner quilt instead of comfroter, might not.

I found SleepEZ and FoamSweetFoam to be in similar price point, although FoamSF only sells 'all natural' talalay latex (keep in mind only something 3% of talalay latex is '100% natural'.   Mine is blended talalay, and although there it has an odor when you sniff it, I've never smelled an odor in room.

FlorBeds and SavvyRest are in higher price point.  There are other vendors I'm less familiar with.  Only a few latex manufacturers that I know of like Latex Intl, Latexco, couple more, so these mattress makers use similar suppliers.

As for Tempurpedic, I have a 3 week old Cloud, and it still makes a little odor when first enter closed room.  But, it is the most comfortable mattress I've had.  Little warmer sleeping than innerspring, but not hot.  Need much more time to really know it, like how is it getting into in December.  My biggest recommendation with memory foam is don't get one that you sink into too much.  That will mess up your neck / back. Tempurpedic quality does seem very high though.  Of course hope the odors are harmless.

Don't underestimate the value of this flexibility, because otherwise you may end up stuck with something you are not satisfied with.   Most of us have learned that the hard way.

Another thing I wanted to ask but forgot was sleeping hot. Thanks to slpngoc for bringing that up. Essentia claims that their mattresses sleep 80% (if I'm not mistaken) cooler than other organic layex mattresses. I personally absolutely hate it when I'm even a little bit warm (my wife is the opposite), so I often don't even use comforter. What is everyone's experience with that? 

slpngoc , when you said the # of layers double for queen/king size beds, what do you mean? God to know I may not need go for 4 layers and 3 may be enough (I'm just under 160lbs and my wife is about 100). 

So even if a company claims their talalay latex is natural, does it mean that 97% of it is not natural but blended? You find TempurPedic to be more comfortable than your SleepEZ 10000?

I plan to use my existing boxspring foundation for the new mattress. Good idea? Bad idea?

Thanks,

-Tony.

I wonder how they quantify 80% cooler.  If we are talking about temperature the temperature of any mattress will be roughly the same as it is just determined by the ambient temperature of the room and how much heat your body gives off (and your duvet/blankets keeps trapped).  If we are talking about humidity regulation which can affect the perceived temperature of something than animal hair products are going to outperform any foam product by leaps and bounds. Are they talking about how conductive their memory foam is compared to real natural rubber ( natural latex is a poor conductor of heat).  Some beds 'feel' cool to the touch because they are conductive, this of course would go away after a minute or two once both mattresses have adjusted to the heat of your body. 

I would beware any blanket statements made like this one, this is what we call marketing.

Other examples of equally useless bits of information that sounds important:

Serta Claiming iComfort memory foam is 12x more breathable than other memory foams; there are many different varieties of memory foam available all of them presumably have different air flow qualities. 

Essentia has many absolutely ridiculous blanket statements throughout the 'learning centre' on their website:

"FACT: a coil system only costs just $13."

I wonder what spring system only cost's $13, but I do know that some other spring systems can be exhorbitantly expensive...again a blanket statement designed to prey on the weak minded and the gullible.

"Innersprings have no support for back or spinal alignment."

There are many different ways to build a spring system, some support the bodies curves a lot better than others, blanket statement, equally as misleading as the one above.

"Coil/Spring mattresses are the least favorable for allergy sufferers because of their inner spring system. The inner cavity of coil mattresses creates an incubator for dust mites where dust mite feces and dead skin cells accumulate. It isn’t uncommon for mold and mildew to be found within the cavity of a coil/spring mattress due to humidity caused by the transfer of body heat. This is why typically a spring mattress will weigh 10 times its original weight after 10 years."

Absolutely bonkers-ridiculous statement.  Dust mites will not live in the core of a coil mattress they will live in the top of a coil mattress where the upholstery is.  The amount of dust mites that may thrive depends on the type of upholstery used.  But even still, lets say a really light weight queen mattress weighs just 50lbs, they are basically saying that this mattress will somehow weigh 500lbs after 10 years....if there was this much poundage of dust mites and fecal matter...don't you think you would be able to see them?  In truth dustmites and basically all micro organisms love to live in environments that are warm and moist, materials that breathe like wool and cotton do not trap in moisture, spring systems provide amazing airflow, meaning that if the right upholstery is used, innerspring mattresses should harbour less allergens than most mattresses.  Foam's lock in moisture and warmth, providing the perfect breeding ground for allergens.

I just meant that if you got the 4 layer mattress with different firmnesses on his/her sides, could be up to 8 layers of latex to deal with instead of six.  I would think a queen ships in 4 large boxes that you'll want to break down and save for whenever you might have to move.  Not feasible to pick up a large latex mattress and just move it.   Other hand, it's easier to move those boxes upstairs than a whole queen or king mattress. 

My opinion is that the all latex mattress sleeps a little bit warmer than a typical innerspring mattress, but it has not been a problem.  Shelved the comforter for a thin quilt.  The Tempurpedic seems to sleep a little warmer than the all latex, but it has not been a problem even when the room is 80 F going to bed and 70 F in morning.   I've read ideal room temp is about 65 F at night, and it's been above that all September.

There is a lot of types of latex.  I understand 'all natural' latex rubber can only be up to about 97% pure latex rubber.  But, I've also heard have to tap something like 1,000 rubber trees to get enough latex for one twin mattress

Not feasible to process it to make it 100% natural.  Word is only 3% of 'talalay' processed latex is made to be 'all natural'.  Vast majority of it is blended talalay. 

According to Shawn at SleepEZ, blended talalay is available in much more ILD choices whereas all natural talalay is far fewer ILD or firmnesses.  He's very nice so no harm calling him up.  I'm not very familiar with Dunlop latex except that it is a simpler processs and can't be made with uniform feel for soft latex.  I think Dunlop is usually made firmer, whereas talalay can be made very soft and firm. 

sleeplikeabear.com shows a little ILD chart for their toppers that gives some insight.

See my thread for TP Cloud vs. SleepEZ 10000.  Tempurpedic Cloud very comfortable to me.  Very picky due to old shoulder injury / arthro surgery years ago.  it ain't the same and will always hurt a little everyday.  I still don't think the SleepEZ has quite the pressure relief of the Tempurpedic.  Doesn't seem the SleepEZ needs a layer exchange cause seems it's about the best it could be.

I don't know if you're box spring would be good or not. If old, maybe best to replace it.  Check with vendor about foundation also.  On my box spring, the center slat that runs head to toe is fully supported by a center frame rail.  Keeps box from sagging in middle.

You mentioned upper back problems.  You've probably been told sleeping on stomach is generally not so good cause have to turn head to side which brings spine out of natural curve?

I don't like button tuck quilts either.  I like a smooth, even surface.

Good questions. I have no idea how they can back up their claims. I will be sure to ask them these questions face to face in about 10 days. I know my innerspring mattress is darn heavy now though. I can barely lift it. It was never light but it wasn't this heavy when we got it. I'm not sure about 10 times heaver (that does sound like a completely off the wall statement) but I think it now weights twice as much as it was when we got it 12 years ago. I was also wondering about $13/coil system statetement myself. I'm sure there are mattresses that do have coil systems that cost $13 to manufacture (hell, there are still $300 innerspring queen mattresses being sold), there are also some pretty complex coil systems that should cost more than $13 (even made in China). Perhaps they mean the cost of the metal that goes into manufactoring coils is $13? 

To be fair my current mattress can still go for few years easily. I'm just not exactly sure if my sleep problems can be attributed to the mattress or it's me or something else or combination of everything. I just read many times people raving how much better they sleep on latex than innerspring so I guess I decided to try it out.The mattress we have now does have botton tuck quilt but it also came with the pillowtop, so we don't feel the buttons.

65 would be almost fine by me ( prefer 68), but my wife would definitely leave me the next morning. Heck, I cannot bring it down any lower than 72 during cold months. 

I looked at the chart on sleeplikeabear.com and while it's pretty nice and easy to understand, it really means nothing to me right now. I don't know what "super soft" or "extra firm" feel like and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get a good feel for it until I really sleep the whole night.

Yes, you're right...sleeping on my stomach isn't the most prefferable position but it's the way I've slept my entire life...not too easy to change now. My back actually doesn't bother me at all during the night and I'm positive it's not what prompts me to wake up few times/night.
 

www.beddingcomponents.com

They make tons of components for mattress manufacturers and much more.

Two big latex mfrs. are Latex International and Latexco

Carpenter Company is a huge maker of foams and materials including memory foam

http://www.carpenter.com/index.php/us/en/bedding/overview

Tempurpedic says  "since we research, design and manufacture TEMPUR® material, it’s proprietary—you’ll only find it in our products". 

Latex is probably one of the springiest foams you will find.  Push on it and the response back is immediate.  It's a very lively type of foam. 

I will vist Essentia store here in the city and The Clean Bedroom that carries SavvyRest mattresses probably on Columbus day. 

So being the spingiest mattress out there is a good or a bad thing?

Good things - supportive, comfortable, long lasting

not so much - heavy, kinda pricey, DIY work putting all latex mattress together.
 

Just wanted to respond to this question again.  Hard to say one is more comfortable than the other really.  They feel different, but both very good.  Tempurpedic is on an adjustable base which is nice.

 - see below - 

I really wonder what they meant by this since they are not in the coil mattress business.  Iron itself is very cheap, so I could see the raw materials costs of really light weight spring systems being worth about the same.  Some high end spring systems are made by hand and can take many hours to construct, if you pay your workers a decent wage per hour you have a lot more expensive spring system.  When I research the current costs of steel, TDI (main chemical in polyfoam for north america), SBR or NR I realize that although some materials are more expensive than others, we are talking on a low end 50 cents a pound (bulk steel), to a high end of about $3 per pound (high quality natural rubber).  Even if you have a 100 pound queen mattress which is fairly heavy, the raw materials costs of the insides of a mattress would only vary up to $250.  The only things that could make a mattress truly expensive are high quality textiles and labour intensive builds.  Shipping/delivery costs are also an inherently expensive part of doing business these days,  marketing is also expensive.  

The only really expensive upholstery are things like cashmere, silk, horsehair, camel hair, anywhere between $10-$20 per pound.  Eiderdown is worth a staggering $70 per OUNCE....

Just want to give you a little heads up about Tempurpedic bed vs. my all latex bed.  It's been tough to discern this, but I've got the differences nailed down now.  The feel of each bed is totally different.  The all latex bed allows one to turn quite easily in it because it is so resilient and has an immediate springback nature.  But, that is also its disadavantage.  The center of the bed is a little more broken in than closer to the edge and that's normal because I think all mattresses break in more where you sleep the most.    The problem is when I roll more to the edge of the bed, the latex kinda sort of wants to push me back towards the center.   Yes, latex is very easy to turn on, but I don't get the feeling of being as securely in place as in the Tempurpedic.

The Tempurpedic also breaks in more in the center of the bed, but Tempur or memory foam just conforms from all directions wherever you're at.  So, I can roll right to the edge on the Tempurpedic and feel held in place and relaxed because of it.  I can move to any part of the bed and it will conform.  It's not as easy to move in the bed, but that's part of its strength - it holds a body in place so that one can relax.  Not that it is hard to turn in this Cloud.  So, the TP seems to have a lot going for it - good support, conformance, easy on joints, doesn't sleep hot, seems durable (my Symphony pillow was just like I bought it after 3 years), and for the slight odor, I'll hope it goes away and since it doesn't bother me now, I'll hope it's harmless as they say.

Good look. I don't want my mattress to move me. I wonder how long it takes for a latex bed to develop this. We sleep on innerspring now and had it for 12 years. It has a pillow top (I'm not sure why so many people have problem with pillowtops) but the mattress is still flat as a pancake. I'm not sure if it was just a quality mattress, our luck or combination of the 2, but I would not anticipate this kind of a problem with a latex bed. 

I still cannot bring myself to seriously consider TP after everything I've read about what they're made out of. Besides, from what I understand they're not really any cheaper than latex. I will try them out in a store though. I want to feel how they really wrap around you. I'm not a crazy eco guy, but from what I understand buying mattress made out of natutal latex (even if it's not 100% natural) helps the wild forrest and I'd like to help out whenever I can.

Regards,

-Tony.

P.S. I thought memory foam slept hot? Not so according to your testimony. Which ones sleep hot? I think I'm confused now. Hell, it seems like it's easier to buy a house than a mattress.

I think memory foam generally sleeps warmer than the typical innerspring mattress.  I was using the same 'ol comforter on a new innerspring in June.  Switched to an iComfort memory foam in July.  Like 2 nights into it, woke up at 4 am, got up,  tooo warm!  Ditched the comforter for a blanket as top layer.  Couple days later bought a nice quilt instead.  Quilts are maybe 1/4" thick.  I like it. 

Was still bit warm on icomfort, but that's because I was sinking in too much.  Got too greedy for an ultra plush mattress.  But the Cloud, not too warm.  Top sheet, quilt, 65 to 75 F room, no problems.  Tempurpedics have the convoluted foam single or dual channels which seem to work.

Caution with the really plush, sink down models of Tempurpedics.  Cloud Luxe is awfully soft.  Really don't know Cloud Supreme would have been too soft and cause neck probs for me.  Won't know.  Regular Cloud - fine.

The TP Contour Select and Signature have the slow reacting, original type Tempurpedic foam.  Had to pass on that.  Rhapsody is pricey, but has the Tempur HD foam.  Have to tune in to feel it, but that stuff conforms great. 

About the all latex.  Too bad what happened on the matching wood slatted foundation.  After first night, was quickly shopping for a thick mattress pad, next day shopping for memory foam topper .... not right.  New latex mattress, then shopping for memory foam topper? which didn't work out.  Mattress felt terrible to me on that slatted wood foundation. 

I didn't like the idea of squishy latex on a box spring, but it was the best thing going.   I tried latex couple nights, then Tempur couple nights. Latex felt off.

Maybe the setup on latex was just wrong.  I tried some Natural Mattress Store all latex mattresses and they felt awfully good in the store. I would have liked to get one, but they were really pricey, $2000 and up, and no return policy, only comfort exchanges.

How much is the TP Cloud Queen?

I'm planning to use my existing box spring as a foundadtion, so it sounds like you found this to be the best choice?

I agree, buying so much extra stuff just to make you feel comfortable after shelling out 2+ grands doesn't seem right to me. Which latex mattress did you go with, so you had to return it?

I'm afraid that when I go to a store, the mattresses will feel good but when I start sleeping on them they won't feel as good. Sort of like when you buy a TV set in a store and they all look vivid and awesome and you set it up at home and start wondering what the hell they did to the store TV to make it look so great. Besides, laying on a mattress for few minutes will never feel the same as spending the entire night on it. I think one of the major requirements for me would be ability to return it back (even if I lose some money on shipping or re-stoking or whatever fees they come up with).

Cloud Queen is $1599 and that price is same nationwide.  Retailers cannot discount TP prices (altough a few claim they got some money off their TP's)

You would not be able to use an existing or any boxspring with Tempurpedic mattress.  Their fixed foundations have a solid wood top, and using a box spring would void the warranty.  Queen foundation is $400.

My all latex mattress was from SleepEZ out of AZ.  I give them an A+ for customer service because they are the nicest people and they take care of business immeidately.  Unfortunately, the 10000 blended talalaly mattress just didn't pan out for me, even tried few different foundations.  Too bad.

Around SF Bay Area, Sleep Train and Mancini's are our biggest major retailers.  One has 100 day refund policy, the other 110 days.  Sleep Train is no restocking fee on refund.

Don't know if I mentioned this before, but be aware, that if you buy a mattress at a place that has a refund / or exchange policy, most likely if you do an exchange to another mattress, that will be a final sale, yours for good, no returns.  Did that once on the iComfort, not again.  Return only if I don't like a mattress.

So even though SleepEZ advertizes their mattress as 100% Natural Organic Latex (like here: http://www.sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1_4_24/products_id/232/osCsid/54bat13vrokuef069cf6brhm61 ), it is blended latex? Interesting.

So the only reason you didn't like SleepEZ was because you were gravitating towards the middle of the bed after a while or was it something else?

Thanks for alerting me that layers exchange will void return policy. I had no idea about it.

$1,600 for TP + $400 foundation + taxes would make it almost $2,200 where  I live,  whereas I can get this one http://www.sleepez.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1_4_25/products_id/227/osCsid/54bat13vrokuef069cf6brhm61 which seems to be top of the line (I do hope it's natural organic latex and not heavily blended one) on SleepEZ for $2,300 flat (I assume they don't charge you for shipping and I won't have to pay taxes cross state).Of course this isn't all about the money and I would definitely pay extra for comfort. I will try checking out TP next Monday. Is their foundation also covered by return policy for 100 days? If you return the mattress, I hope you don't get stuck with the foundadtion.

Regards,

-Tony.

That is not true with SleepEZ.  I meant if you buy a whole mattress, then exchange to another mattress, I believe in most cases that 2nd one is not returnable..

If you exchange a layer with SleepEZ, the whole mattress would still be returnable within the 90 day trial period.
 

1) No.  The blended latex would fall under the 'Latex mattress line'.  That is either all natural Dunlop or blended talalay.  The other option is the 'Organic latex' line which all natural talalay latex which has a premium price.

2) I'll try to describe best as possible.  To me latex is 'springy' foam.  You push on it and it pushes back, pronto.  The mattress has a bouncy feel as when you go to get up, it kinda helps push you off the edge a little.  Far as I can tell, I don't think latex molds around a body as much as memory foam.  On my box spring, I did notice a bowing of mattress towards the center.   When I layed towards the edge to test it, it was hard to lay there, felt a little off balance.  Same on both sides.  I just saw no advantage with the latex mattress over the Tempurpedic, overall less comfortable.  The Tempurpedic has a very solid, stable feeling I like.  I had a polyester type of mattress pad on the lates and also the cover has some quilted wool in it and the cover itself is a fairly thick cotton.  Therefore, the feel of the latex / mattress surface was diminished.  The Tempurpedic only has a superthin protectabed on it and fitted sheet, so I get to feel the memory foam a lot which I like.

3) If you didn't like a TP mattress set, you could return the foundation also.  Retailer would be foolish to stick a customer with a foundation they don't want.  The SleepEZ organic line I'm sure would be all natural latex (or 97% natural or whatever the highest they can make it).   Keep in mind these layered latex mattresses are more DIY.  You will unwrap and handle layers of latex to put it together or to move.  Rolling them back up is a litte tough as I found out yesterday.  Latex is very springy, strong foam.  When you unwrap it, it will lay out immediately.  It resists rolling up cause it's like a spring, especially the denser latex. 

1) That link was actually for organic latex. They call it "Natural Organic Latex Mattress Queen 13,000 Select Sleep" and it seems to be top of their line mattress. The price is pretty steep, but it's not all that much more expensive than TP memory foam. I'd put them in the same category pricewise.

2) Could it be that you felt the latex mattress you got (blended tallalay) was springy was because it was...well...blended? From what I read...blended latex may have this characteristic as oppose to organix (well, 97% organic) latex? The more it's blended with syntetic latex the more "springy" it gets from what I understand? I will check memory foam in TP mattresses out, but I'm not sure I'm crazy about idea of a mattress "hugging" me from all directions. Could be a good feeling or could feel a little crrepy. I'll have to test it out.

3) Good to know the foundation is also refundable. I suppose whether they come and take it or you take it to the store yourself will depend on specific's store policy not necessarily TP return policy?

Regards,

-Tony.
 

2) I really don't know how all natural latex would have felt here at home.   This Cloud doesn't 'hug from all directions', it just feels really solid and still, especially on the heavy adjustable base (it weighs over 175 lbs!).   I still think, don't go too soft on memory foam mattresses.  It's easy to get drawn into the 12" Cloud Luxe which has a lot of memory foam.  Don't sink too far into the mattress.  I think it is best to go a little firmer.

I like feel of the Cloud.  I'm not crazy about the slow reacting, firmer foam on the Contour Select and Signature or the original bed or Advantage or Deluxe TP bed (both are discontinued).

Memory foam mattresses are completely flat, no 'tucks' like on most conventional mattresses.  I like a smooth surface.  The latex mattress on box didn't feel as solid to me, harder to get comfortable.

3) Every mattress seller has trucks for pickup of delivery.  Almost any customer wouldn't have a truck big enough to haul one.  Plus they don't have mattress bags. 

Retailers often require a matching foundation for a mattress.  I don't think you'd want to put a new mattress on an old foundation anyway.   Maybe on a really good one if it's a good match.  Tempurpedics must go on their matching foundation.  I wouldn't put a Tempurpedic on a box spring, no way. 

FYI, see www.beddingcomponents.com  Around here all of the S brand boxes are L&P 'semi-flex'(R) innards.  Original Mattress Factory seems to use a different type of L&P box component, kind of like a spring.

Springs could sag, so don't use them anymore.   A few high-end mfrs still make true box springs like McCroskey, Kluft, etc... but they are rare and cost a fortune.  Boxes cost over $1k.

 

I was able to try the Savvy mattress at a local store.  The Talalay was too plush for me and I went with Firm Medium Soft Dunlop 10" Serenity in Queen.  The mattress feels a bit firmer than the one I tried in the store.  I have it on <a href="http://www.amenityhome.com/furniture/reclaimed-wood-bedroom-furniture/amenity-muir-bed.html">this platform bed</a>.  The mattress does not have any issues with feeling different at the edge of the bed.  It feels perfectly flat no matter where I sleep.  I replaced a waterbed so I didn't have a suitable frame/box spring to try with the latex.  The mattress softened up a bit after 2-3 weeks making it really comfortable.  I am very happy with my mattress.

I think the base you use can make a difference in the feel of a mattress.

Right on with that.  It's possible slpngoc's spring foundation sinks more in the middle naturally, causing this.

I found a store that has SavvyRest mattresses, so I wanted to check them out too, but I was stupid enough not to call ahead so they were closed for the Columbus Days (yeah, weird). I just want to lay down on a natural latex mattress and see what it feels like before I order something off the internet. Macys didn't have any of those. They did however have a mattress with inteligel which felt nice. May be I should try Sleepys? They have Dr. Breus, Sleep Options, and Pure Latex Bliss. I'm not sure I heard about any of these though.

Tony; thank you for your comparo of the Essentia beds to the Tempur-Pedic.

It is misleading to say latex pushes back against you more then the tempurpedic does. The push back against you equaly. It is a battle between weight and gravity. If you apply 100lbs of weight to either foam you will sink until the foam provides 100lbs of resistance. Latex does recover to its original shape much faster then memory foam. Tempurpedic is designed to conform and recover very slowly. They are 2 different types of foam that have 2 compleletly different comfort levels. Some people do like the feeling of the mattress slowly comfoming around them and other dont like that feeling. Both Tempurpedic and Latex Mattresses are great products with excellent durabilty. Tempurpedic still hasnt been around quite long enough to say they last as long as latex mattress, but so far they are making a good showing.

I have seen an 18yr old Tempurpedic that looked in very good shape for the age and was still a supportive mattress and I have seen a 30 yr old latex bed that was in just as good of shape as the 18yr old tempurpedic. Both beds were primary beds for 2 adults.

Mixing Polyurethane foams with latex will typically shorten the life of latex, but will bring the price down considerably.

One more thing is buying a mattress without a matching boxspring does not void the warranty. The warranty states "If it is not on a supportive foundation it will void your warranty." With that said if you do not buy a matching foundation most comapines (or atleast all that I know) will not offer a comfort exchange. So if you are not comfortable with the mattress they will not take it back, because it most likely will feel different on your platform bed or a different type of box spring. This affects only the comfort and not the warranty.

3) Tempurpedic warranty - ' If the TP mattress is placed on anything other than a TP foundation, the burden of proof of structural capacity of foundation in the event of warranty claim is transferred to consumer and may place warranty in jeopardy'.

It first states - 'TP mattresses are designed for use with solid surface, non -sprung foundations'.

The only solid surface non TP foundations I've ever seen are adjustable base foundations.  Then there's the plywood over box spring solution.  The TP rep would deny any claim with that setup.

2) I was pretty bummed about how bad the all latex mattress performed on the de facto pine slat foundation.  The pressure points were bad to where my right shoulder was aching badly after 3 nights.  It was the bed for sure.  Perhaps that would have been the time to switch to firm/soft/soft or another combo.  I didn't like it on the box spring either.

I wouldn't say the Cloud recovers really slowly.  The Contours are slow.  Compared to latex, they are slow recovery. I prefer the slow, conforming, solid feel. 

Some of the natural latex beds in Natural Mattress Store felt awfully good, but the no return policy didn't.

1) For #1 you'd have to look at what it takes to call a bed product organic, but a blended latex mattress that's 65% synthetic ingredients in the foam, I'm quite sure one cannot claim as 'organic'.   However, my blended latex mattress didn't off gas.

Your synthetic blend latex didn't offgas that you know of.  Most of the chemicals in synthetic materials used in mattresses are completely odourless.  

Not all latex is even grown organically.  The hevea milk itself would be organic if the land hasnt been treated with any agro chemicals of any kind.  The finished product itself has no 3rd party certification, so the organizations that certify product organically would have to disagree with your opinion.  Sulfur is natural but it is not biological, so no, latex foam even of 100% natural variety still shouldn't be called organic.  Much for the same reason we would not label steel springs as organic.  I am not saying natural rubber is bad, just trying to clarify what the industry labels as organic is actually the hevea milk, not the finished product. 

I hope I don't come off as abrupt, just that if you consider something that is 95% organic to be organic than it really is missing the whole point of what the definition is.  Its like saying we have 100% cotton fabric that is 95% organically grown cotton, the rest of the cotton used is just normal 'natural' cotton.  This is not an organic product.  If that kind of product doesn't get certification than neither should latex foam.  You can label it organically grown and 100% natural but you should not label it  'Organic'.