Recommended sleeping temperature is roughly 65 to 70 F for most people.  My room temp has started dropping just under 70F, and my Cloud is not any harder at that temp. 

We've got the digital thermostat set to 65 F through the night.  Hasn't kicked on yet, but we don't plan on letting room temp drop to 60 F.

btw, $5,000 for a TP king is an Allura set, but that is awfully high end.  I'm fine on my 'lowly' Cloud.

Took me 5 months to finally roll with the leader, but finally did, and glad for that.

Temp in room is around 67-70, so that should be fine for any foam mattress.

Reason I didn't go with the Tempurpedic is the ones we tried "Cloud" and Cloud xxx felt Ok, but there is no way in the world I am willing to take even a $2500 risk on a mattress after years and years of buying "superior" quality such as S&F latex, yada, yada, and getting pure crap. If I put down $2500 for a Tempurpedic, and we decide we don't like, or its not comfortable, etc. then what are we to do? I take ANY store or manufacturer "guarantee" with a grain of salt as they will do whatever they can to back out of any "comfort guarantee".

Plus, I have read tons of Tempurpedic reviews that loved them in the store, but they didn't feel like that at home, etc. What does one do after that?

Basically, I don't believe anyones hype anymore. I'm back to the thinking of "buy a $500 mattress and throw it away in 2 yrs when it gets crappy" school of thought.

So far I've found that both the Tempurpedic and the iComfort feel just about the same at home as at the store.  Very close.

I don't trust all things people say on internet reviews.  I believe some things are legit and accurate and many other things are innacurate and some cases outright lies.  Some people lie often.

Sounds like Tempurpedic makes one try mattress for 30 days minimum and that's reasonable.  They will honor a 90 day return period, but yeah, a $200+ return shipping fee would stink. 

There are no major retailers near you?  Wow, that makes it tough.  Our Sleep Trains (big chain) will take a 100 day return with no cost, but cannot purchase another mattress after a return for 6 months.

Yeah, it kinda sucks to think about $2500 for a king set.  Can't say I like spending $1600 with tax for a twinXL Cloud set.  But, it's MUCH better than paying some other amount for a mattress set that's too soft, too firm, feels too firm by the morning, has horroble pressure points on its recommended foundation, etc,etc....

Big Q -   Do you or wife feel that you sink into that Novaform mattress quite a bit?   This is very important issue in my opinion and something you defintely want to avoid.  If your pillow feels abnormally tall, that can be a sign the mattress is too soft.  I think on memory foam you want to sink down in the mattress about same amount as you would on a preffered conventional bed.

* Too much sinking in will lead to back / neck / spine misalignment / problems. *

As for 'comfort guarantees or exchanges, I would never use that because that means that 2nd mattress is yours for good.  If you bought a Tempurpedic shipped or SleepEZ, etc, they will honor their 90 day return policy.  You will need to pay some shipping to return though.

The Tempurpedic Cloud in our Sleep Train was fully broken in, I could just tell.  When mine arrived it was firmer than the store for sure, but it wasn't hard.  It started softening up within a night or two.  I believe every type of foam breaks in somewhat.  I've seen that in 5 new mattresses in 5 months.

I was very leery of the claims and complaints about Tempurpedic too.  How they sleep hot, or sag after a while, give allergic reactions. So, I held off while trying 4 other mattress brands and going through tons of hassle.  Also losing $1300 on a too soft iComfort.

But, the knowledge I had was 'Don't go too soft on memory foam'..  In my opinion, good memory foam has an ability to feel good through the night where cheapo batting in quilts and comfort layers just compress and firm up.  

So, I went leaner with a 5.2" Cloud core with 2.8" memory foam.  Support is fine.  Comfort is very good.  Today marks 5 weeks on it, and all is still well. 

As I've said before, the only downer I see with this TP is the slight odor.  No reaction to it, but it does linger for some weeks. ... from the mattress and foundation.  Sure I hope there are no effects over time.

One thing about Tempurpedic is they make the mattress exactly as they say.  Says 5.2" core foam, 1.2" ES foam, that's what it is, no BS.

TP says the foundation is reinforced ..... heck yeah it is.  I was able to peer in side of fabric to see the reinforced top board.  Wow is it a heavy foundation too. 

So, in my opinion, TP is building quality beds.  Sorry I can't say I've had mine for 7 years and it's like the first week I got it, but I look forward to that. 

 

it did basically nothing the package said it would do

* package said it would be supportive - I sank so far into that 2.5" gel foam topper, it was ridiculous.  Granted it was on top of a latex bed, but I sank far into the foam too.

* Package said it wouldn't sleep hot - I was cooking hot that night.  Where is the air supposed to go anyway?  Was there any airflow channel? No

* Pack said it would have great pressure relief - oh nooo it didn't

So, the Sleep Innovations topper got returned the next day.

Is it plush when it's warm and ultra firm when it's cool? 

Are you using a mattress pad on the mattress? 

Not supposed to use any kind of fiber filled mattress pad on memory foam mattresses. 

Just use a super thin Protect a Bed type of mattress pad.

Then you are  left with buying crap that will need to be thrown away way before two years.

NovaForm Gel redux.

I have seen many complaints about TP,about 15% of customers, but don't recall one saying that they bought direct from TP or a major retailer and refused to honor the 90 try it /return it if you don't like it guarantee.

I think the minimum is IComfort or $1200 or so on a DIY/generic latex bed or $1000 or so on a DIY memory foam bed.

$500 buys a POS mattress in 2011.

 

OK, this is not a topper, it is a 12" mattress as stated above. Kind of hard to compare the two.

No, there is very little give at all times, it just gets like a rock in cooler weather. Basically, it goes from firm to extra firm. Not exactly how it is described or was designed as far as I am concerned.

When I lay in it, I barely sink, even after several minutes, and I am 185lbs.

We just have a protect a bed. NO mattress pad.

As I said, there is no major retailer anywhere near me, much less a TP factory store. I might have to take the 2 hr ride (each way) to a major city and find a TP factory store or reputable chain type store. I will be calling Tempurpedic directly tomorrow and getting straight facts about their return policy. There is no way I am laying out $2500-3000 just to "try" a bed for <90 days and then when it doesn't work out, and we have to return it, we lose 10% + tax. I can't afford to just throw away $400 to try out a bed.

As for the iComfort, you do realize it is made by Sleep Innovations, the same company that makes the Novaform, right? And BTW, if you can find an iComfort Revolution or whatever they call it for $1200 in a King size, please let me know, as I will buy it just to try it out. A King size is WELL into the $2K range without an adjustable base.

DIY foam is not going to happen. Why would I take the chance on an unknown feel if we are having trouble with a known memory feel? That makes zero sense.

Sooooooo, I decided to check out Tempurpedics "warranty" and guess what? Just as suspected.

Here is why, copied right from their website. Highlights I found in bold.

90 Day Tryout

Here’s how it works:

• Buy a Tempur-Pedic® mattress from us, on our website or by phone.
• We'll deliver your mattress and set it up in your home.
• Sleep on our new mattress for 30 nights to get used to the amazing comfort and support it offers.
• If you're not happy in the first 90 days after your purchase, call us. Our Customer Service staff will work with you to answer your questions and resolve your concerns.
• If we can't find a way to make you happy, we'll take the mattress back and reimburse your purchase price, less the initial shipping costs.

This tells me that you have to buy directly from them and if you don't like it, call them and their staff will try and convince you to keep the mattress. If you refuse, they will take it back as long as you pay them the "shipping and handling" fees. You lose the tax, no matter what.

So, in further reading, there is this..........

90 Night Tryout details

• Our 90 Night Tryout is exclusive to Tempur-Pedic, and covers mattresses purchased direct from us, on our website or by phone. Tempur-Pedic mattresses purchased from retail stores are not covered by the Tempur-Pedic 90 Night Tryout.
• The 90 Night Tryout covers the mattress plus foundation. Ergo adjustable bases, bed frames, pillows, cushions, linens and accessories do not qualify.
• Return shipping fees may apply if you took advantage of a free shipping offer. Shipping fees are based on mattress weight, and generally range from $200 to $325.

Pretty cut and dry. If you buy from ANY retail store, there is NO 90 day trial, period. No matter how much BS a store tells you. If a store "offers" it they are full of sh!t and you are at their mercy to honor what they tell you.

If you buy it from TP directly, you can return it for a cost "generally" in the $200-$325 range. King size of course is more, probably much more. Oh, and if you purchased an adjustable foundation, or pillows, etc, you are stuck with them, period. NO returns.
 

I had a feeling it was all hype and obviously, their 90 day trial is just that. Unless of course you want to pay full retail (without all the extra stuff a store would throw in) AND you want to throw away upwards of $400 if you don't like it before the trial period ends. And be stuck with an adjustable base (if you bought one) that is now useless without a foam bed.

I know that, I'm just saying I had a real good sampling of the touted Sleep Innovation gel memory foam in the form of a topper.  I'm assuming the latex was doing its job acting as  a core foam.

I would think in your 12" mattress, the gel memory foam is at the surface and is about 2" or so thick.

But, yeah, there not identical.  Costco does not make a twin XL, so I never considered them.
 

Here's a description of the Costco deluxe 12" Novaform mattress -

'The top layer is our 2.5" premium memory foam, for a balanced combination of cradling comfort and gentle support – with the revolutionary addition of NutraFresh™ treatment, for lasting freshness and no "new foam smell."  The 2.5" middle layer is made of deeply sculpted premium foam, for dramatically improved air circulation and firm support. And the 7"  bottom layer is made of premium base foam which adds stability and therapeutic support.'

Ok, so there's only 2.5" of memory foam, total in the mattress.  That's not much.  And it's Sleep Innovations memory foam which is NOT Tempurpedic memory foam.

Then there's a 2.5" layer of regular foam that provides 'firm support'.  I think that's the problem.  Just a bit of memory foam, then a firm support layer just underneath.  Sounds like an iComfort genius which always felt too firm to me in the store.   Don't think I'd like this Novaform mattress either.

I have no experience with that mattress (or with memory foam), but before buying a different mattress, would you want to try adding either a soft topper -- soft latex, soft memory foam, featherbed, or polyfill (like the Cuddlebed) -- or an electric heated mattress pad? (Or both?) 

Costco offers a variety of toppers, and I see on their Web site that they have a heated mattress pad on sale now.

Some sort of wool topper or pad might also help you retain heat.

Robert,

iComforts are assembled by Serta.  I had a Revolution for 4 weeks and yes the tag says Serta, Moreno Valley, CA.   However, I'm darn sure the gel memory foam is sourced form Sleep Innovations.

Hear me out - like said, I had a brand new iComfort Revolution for 4 weeks.  I don't care how one slices it, that mattress, IMO, qualifies as an ultra plush.  I slept on it for 4 weeks, had other family members try it .... it causes a body to sink a lot into it.  Sounds good, but this led to neck pains, and scraping sound.  My neck does not do that!   And now it is fine again.

People don't like to hear that Revolution is so plush.  I found some bad things about the iComfort.  I've been saying this over and over.  First, the box spring was very cheesy.  the surface rods permanently bent a good 1/4" and deformed guaranteeing some sagging in the middle.

Also, the ad board stated, in Sears - 2.75" gel foam and 2" Koolcomfort memory foam, for 4.75" total.

They couldn't even get that right.  I measured carefully to find 5.75" memory foam total ... tooo much IMO.   The core is 6", all iComforts are, the mattress 11.75" high, so 5.75" memory foam total.  They couldn't even put in what they say in the mattress.  To me that reeks of low quality.

Sounds harsh, but that was my experience.  And when I had to sell it private.  it wasn't worth squat at 4 weeks old pawned off a $1500 twin XL for $175.

i saw used Tempurpedic Queen asking $1000.

 

The bed does NOT sleep hot or cold. That is not a problem. The issue is that the bed itself changes with the temp.

I thought about a topper, but that is defeating the purpose of the mattress in the first place. I do have a topper from our previous bed that I may try just for kicks, but in no way are we pleased with the Novaform on its own.

To be sure, shipping is just a bitch with large mattresses.  The layered latex ones are cost effective to ship because they roll up and can go UPS.  But when you have to use freight, things get really expensive. 

I don't recommend an adjustable base.  I had one for 4 weeks, and it seems more for 'kicking back' in bed (watching TV, reading paper).  When I sleep, I want a flat bed.   Also, if you adjust the bed up during the night, you're stuck laying on your back.  Then have to adjust flat to turn at all.  So, relax and don't worry about having an adjustable. 

I just returned a $1500 Tempurpedic adjustable base to our chain Sleep Train to get the fixed foundation, and I got the tax back as well.

---------------------------------------------

At least the Sleep Science 10" has 3" memory foam over core foam.  The Ara has apparently 7" memory foam over a 6" core??? Why so much memory foam.   

The only other bed I can think of that I would have like to try was a Simmons Beautyrest model from Sears named 'St Bees evenloft' comes in plush or firm. 

I liked it because it has a combo of Simmons NxG memory foam and regular foam in top layers and individual coils beneath.  It had a smooth surface with no quilted / button tucks. 
 

You stated the bed is firm all the time and goes to firmer when cold.  Does the bed feel good in the best of temperature?  I doubt I'd like it given that 'firm foam' underneath the memory foam.

First off, any mattress by Sleep Innovations and Novaform is found NO where in any major chain retail bed store around here.  Tells me something.  If they can't get the bed into a major store, it likely kinda sucks.

Manicinl's keeps saying they're going to start carrying iComforts.  Good luck with that.  Tempurpedic is going to kick iComfort's butt.

I think the Novaform is so firm because it is only 2.5" memory foam over 2.5" firm regular support foam just underneath.  Sounds like that support foam is screwing up the feel of the mattress.

I think Sleep Innovations / iComfort (Serta) / Novaform are quite familiar with each other. 

Ever tried an iComfort genius?    it's kind of a brick to me.  It's 2.75" gel memory foam over a 2" firm support foam over 6" core.  sounds just about like your mattress.  I've tried it in store, its too firm, I don't like it.

Off top of my head, I can't think of one TP model that has a 'firm support' foam sandwiched between a core and memory foam top. 

I need to sign off after this post, but I'll leave you with this -

I don't think Tempurpedic is just a bunch of hype and they are out to rip customers off.

I slept on a TP Symphony pillow for 4 years, and it was the best pillow I've ever had.  duly noted.  I was a little skeptical over TP mattress reviews. 

After trying a brand new S&F, iComfort, then SleepEZ latex and still not satisfied, I took another step and bought a Tempurpedic comfort pillow. ... better than Symphony pillow and the best pillow I've ever had.

I bought an entry level 8" tall Cloud TP mattress.  Best mattress I've ever had.  Ever. Exchanged adjustable base for fixed TP foundation.  Wow, what a solid, well built foundation, best I've ever seen.  Will I still love it in 8 years?  I don't know, but it's looking good so far!

BCM

Union City, CA

Mattress feels OK, but still a bit too firm in warmer weather. Obviously, there is no way to try the bed out in Costco and the reason we bought it is due to the liberal return policy. Didn't think we were going to need it after the first week or so, but now we will take advantage of it.

You also said that Sleep Innovations is not in any chain store near you, but if the store has the Serta iComfort, they absolutely have Sleep Innovations in the store.

I would imagine that you may be correct about the middle core being the root cause of the problem. I would REALLY like to try out the TP, but the "no store has the 90 day trial" thing has REALLY turned me off. Why does every store you walk in (I remember them when I lived in the Northeast) that carries TP, boldy have the signs posted? To me, that is a huge scam. As I said, TP freely admits the stores don't have it, and I surely would not trust a stores word. If they will put it in writing, I may then take a chance, until then its not going to happen.

I'll see if I could pick out a better looking king foam mattress on Costco ....

It seems all of the Novaform mattresses have 2.5" gel memory foam over some type of 2 ish inches of support foam or 'wave foam', then a 7" core.

At least the $999 11" Hybrid Bliss has 2" combined memory foam over 2" medium latex over the 7" core.  That should give a little softer feel than the 2.5" gel foam over the 'firm layer' that's in your basic Novaform.

---------------------------------------

Are you saying the stores in NE had '90 day trial' TP signs posted yet they didn't offer refunds when buying from store?  I'm not sure what the TP scam is your speaking of.  Scam because they have big ad signs in store?? 

Tempurpedic is a BIG advertiser.  Easy to say they are the biggest advertising bed company today.  The rep explained that Sealy, Simmons and Serta are still much bigger than Tempurpedic now.  The don't need to advertise at 6pm on primetime TV.  But, Tempurpedic believes in their products and they obviously spend tons of money on advertising.

Every store has a sign or neon signs.  They are not shy about their products.  Mine is worth the money I spent on it.  After what I've been through the last five months, I'm happy to have spent $1450 + tax for a twin XL Cloud set.  I could have spent $899 for an iComfort insight set from Sears, got a cheesy box spring with 2.75" gel memory foam over 6" core foam and no air flow channel to vent air, just a promise that gel foam magically dissipates heat better.  

I'm sorry, but the commercialized hyped up lingo in this description makes me want to gag. "Nutrafresh" treatment "for lasting freshness" and no "new foam smell"? They are trying to make it sound like the smell is nutritious? Good for you like freshbaked bread? Gimme a break.

And what's with the "deeply sculpted premium foam"? Hunh? Scupted as in how? Is it or flat or is carved out in some way? Or just what is "deeply sculpted' supposed to mean?

It's nonsense like this that steers me away from products like this. When they start hyping up the language to make it sound like something it is not, that is the first sign of dishonesty, and I'm not about to reward it with my hard-earned dollars.

How about some straight facts instead of jazzed up commercialized nonsense?

Bwah. Spit em out and steer clear.

Funny, I just posted another thread about Sleep Science and the Hybrid Bliss. Trying to find out exactly who they are.

As for the signs in the stores. What I mean is that every store up North that carried TP, had big signs advertising the 90 day trial. Well, as TP plainly concedes that is a farce, who is telling fibs? I would say the local chain stores. I am not saying TP is trying to "take" customers at all. I AM saying that their advertising is HIGHLY misleading at bes and the fact that the chain stores play along just makes it worse. They may very well have a great product, but when I see "liberal" use of terms, that throws up a great big red flag.

From TP 

"Our 90 Night Tryout is exclusive to Tempur-Pedic, and covers mattresses purchased direct from us, on our website or by phone. Tempur-Pedic mattresses purchased from retail stores are not covered by the Tempur-Pedic 90 Night Tryout."

-------------

I just confirmed with Sleep Train - If you buy a new mattress from them including Tempurpedic, it is covered by a 100 day trail period and would be returnable with no fee up to 100 days. Including Adjustable bases. Pillows, not.

Any clearance beds or floor models are not returnable.

So, the store policy overrides mfr. policy I think in most cases.

Tempurpedic is simply stating, they have a specific policy purchasing from them, and stores have their own policy.  It sucks that some small stores can't offer refunds, but that's just the way it is. 

I would imagine small stores purchase their stock and store it.  They just cannot afford to take returns because ..........

Used mattresses sell very poorly.  Very few people want a used mattress, and if they buy one, they expect a BIG discount. 

I've seen 3 week old mattresses stacked up at Sears outlets for 1/2 original price. 

This is different from your original post, which stated that you & your wife liked the mattress just fine until the weather got cooler. That's why I suggested adding something to either soften the mattress or keep the top of it warm (which presumably would help it stay soft).

If you don't like the mattress enough to keep it under any circumstances, that's an entirely different situation.

Well, problem is that we only like it for a couple of weeks or so as the weather was still very warm. Even then, I wasn't completely happy, and now, absolutely unhappy.

That is the point I am making about the chain store (or any retail store) must back up their words. Any store can tell you they will, but what happens when you go to claim a refund could be a whole other story. In all the years we have been purchasing mattresses (married 23 yrs) I have NEVER found a store that I would trust without fail.

Sleep Train written guarantee -

"If within 100 days ... you are not satisfied ... you can receive a full refund ".

The policy is in writing and they honor it.  No questions asked they picked up my $1500 adjustable base and delivered the fixed foundation.

My card should be credited within a couple days.

If it's in writing and it's clear, it happens or else I would call something like channel '7 on your side' news.  They would return the money.

We've looked at Tempurpedic and the local "Mattress Firm" retailer offers a couple options if you don't like the Tempurpedic after a 90-day trial. If you bring it back, they will credit your expense toward any other product in the store. They said if you don't want anything else, they will refund your money. But my sense is that it would be a lot of hassle to get the money back.

Another option they offer: They have previously-owned mattresses at a substantial savings. A couple hundred off on a twin mattress-only, up to $500 or more off the higher grade, larger mattresses. But, in addition to the price reduction, they take away the returnable feature. They said when they take a mattress back, it goes through an expensive, thorough cleaning process before they resell it. They will not sanitize it a second time. So you better be sure you want the mattress before you consider a previously-owned Tempurpedic mattress. But this would be OK if you tried a smaller or lower-level Tempurpedic with the understanding that you could return it after 90 nights and upgrade to a larger size and/or more premium model, if you were happy with Tempurpedic.

It's available for $600 at PriceBuster Mattress.  If you want it with an adjustable base...you'd spend around $1000!!!  Just thought I'd let you know!  And the Icomfort material is not made by Sleep Innovations.  Serta does have a "sleep innovations memory foam" but it's called just that.  The Icomfort is a completely different bed!

Maybe.  But it's still a cheap form of memory foam. Probably imported from China and assembled in the US.  Equally crappy.  Nothing like the Tempurpedic foam.