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Ok, relating my most recent DIY mattress experience and wondering if I'm nuts ... In another thread I describe disassembling an old latex+eggcrate Englander mattress and ending up with a 6" slab of latex - no idea what type, quality, or ILD. It was definitely too hard to sleep on by itself, so I've been experimenting with toppers - starting with 1" (single and folded double) of FBM 20ILD latex. Meanwhile, GF asks me to configure a bed for her. So I buy 3" of FBM LUX-HQ and 3" of HD36-HQ. Slept on it with the 1" 20ILD topper I bought for my latex core, and I liked it a LOT. Basically, the core of the two 3" pieces of p/u foam is vastly better for me than my 6" piece of latex from the old mattress. The latex not only feels uncomfortably harder, it is also less supportive and gives me a backache. The kicker for me was having a pretty bad flare-up of lower back pain while doing all this, and spending a night on an old non-foamcore futon in a spare bedroom. Feels hard as a rock initially, but feels better after you've been on it awhile (sorta the way I've heard memory-foam described). Spending the night on this futon made a night-and-day difference in my backpain, virtually curing the flare-up overnight; I've noticed this before with the old futon, so there's little doubt in my mind that the old latex (with either the old eggcrate topper or the 1" 20ILD latex) is problematic for my back. So it would appear that the $200 worth of p/u foam makes a much better core, for me, than whatever kind of latex is the 6" slab from my old mattress. Am I nuts ? If not, this is good news for those agonizing over whether to spend the big bucks for all all-latex mattress, versus a p/u core with latex topper. And if you get the HQ latex, the lifetime is supposedly 12-18 years. P.S. If anyone is near central NC, I can make you a deal on a 6" latex core ... This message was modified Nov 27, 2011 by RustyShackleford
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Yes, it can be confusing. The good news is that you found something you like at a low price. You say the latex is not supportive, but what do you base that on? Do you think your hips sink in too much? Sometimes too firm can cause back problems. It could be an overly firm piece of Dunlop. The right latex can work well for many, and last a long time. So, hard to draw any firm conclusions, but sounds like you have an inexpensive option for people to consider. |
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sandman wrote:
Yes, it can be confusing. The good news is that you found something you like at a low price.
You say the latex is not supportive, but what do you base that on? Do you think your hips sink in too much? Sometimes too firm can cause back problems. It could be an overly firm piece of Dunlop. The right latex can work well for many, and last a long time. So, hard to draw any firm conclusions, but sounds like you have an inexpensive option for people to consider. I guess the only downside of the p/u core is longevity, but I'd rather have something more comfortable than something that lasts forever. And at the price, I can replace the p/u core more frequently. I guess I'm posting this experience for several reasons. Is there something I'm missing ? You suggest perhaps the latex is too firm, but like I said, I don't think so. Also, the person on a budget should know they might actually possibly be happier with the cheaper option; although considering how highly regarded latex is, I'm guessing the problem is simply that my old core is very low quality and/or just too low an ILD rating for a core (although the fact it feels too hard by itself would give the lie to this). Oh well, like you say, it can be confusing ... This message was modified Nov 28, 2011 by RustyShackleford
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Maybe the latex is too soft or you are one of those that doesn't like latex? Hard to say. You said it seemed too hard, so I thought maybe it was too firm, but maybe it is too soft and you don't like the push back feel of latex. One thing I have found with an all latex mattress is that it can feel hard in the pressure spots, like hips, even though the mattress overall is not too firm. I think the effect is due to it essentially pushing back hard the more it compresses (which will occur is your heaviest areas - hips & shoulders). Memory foam will tend to spread out and mold to the body, and not push back as much in any one place. Of course, the total pushback off the mattress has to equal the weight your body is pushing down on it. The main difference is how that pushback is spread out. This is why I (and some others) tend to like at least a little memory foam or some other foam on top. On the other had, many are happy with 100% latex. Also, softer talalay will not have as much pushback feel as firmer latex. I would also note that your new PU foam base is not fully broken in. So, it is possible your perception of it will change over time. |
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sandman wrote: Maybe the latex is too soft or you are one of those that doesn't like latex? Hard to say. You said it seemed too hard, so I thought maybe it was too firm, but maybe it is too soft and you don't like the push back feel of latex. One thing I have found with an all latex mattress is that it can feel hard in the pressure spots, like hips, even though the mattress overall is not too firm. I think the effect is due to it essentially pushing back hard the more it compresses (which will occur is your heaviest areas - hips & shoulders). Memory foam will tend to spread out and mold to the body, and not push back as much in any one place. Of course, the total pushback off the mattress has to equal the weight your body is pushing down on it. The main difference is how that pushback is spread out. This is why I (and some others) tend to like at least a little memory foam or some other foam on top. On the other had, many are happy with 100% latex. Also, softer talalay will not have as much pushback feel as firmer latex. I would also note that your new PU foam base is not fully broken in. So, it is possible your perception of it will change over time. Yes, I AM starting to think I'm one who simply doesn't like latex. At least for a core. I suspect it's the "pushback" that bothers me on the latex core. I definitely get pressure points. Yet I don't think it's because it's too firm (since the old futon helps my back). Maybe I'm a memory-foam guy. The "hot" thing has made me think I wouldn't like it. Maybe I should try 2" of it, like you suggest. When you talk of the PU getting "broken in", do you mean it'll get less firm ? That'd be a drag; more confusion ! Maybe I'll just like the LUX-HQ with latex and/or memory-foam topper, and skip the HD36. Thanks for all your thoughts, Sandman ! |
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RustyShackleford wrote:
Yes, I AM starting to think I'm one who simply doesn't like latex. At least for a core. I suspect it's the "pushback" that bothers me on the latex core. I definitely get pressure points. Yet I don't think it's because it's too firm (since the old futon helps my back). Maybe I'm a memory-foam guy. The "hot" thing has made me think I wouldn't like it. Maybe I should try 2" of it, like you suggest. When you talk of the PU getting "broken in", do you mean it'll get less firm ? That'd be a drag; more confusion ! Maybe I'll just like the LUX-HQ with latex and/or memory-foam topper, and skip the HD36. Thanks for all your thoughts, Sandman ! I don't think I would add 2" of memory foam if you have back issues. The downside of memory foam is that it does not really provide much support. So, your heaviest areas will compress it almost completely. It is really just for comfort, and will help if the mattress is too firm. If you are still looking for comfort, you might want to try 1" on top of your softer latex. Hard to find quality 1" pieces now a days, and yes it can also make it a bit hotter if you are sensitive to that. If you got rid of the HD36 then you might be able to use more than 1" of memory foam, but you might sink through the top layers and feel too much of the firmness of the LUX. Usually it is good to have some intermediate firmness foam in between the firm base and the soft comfort layers. Most foams will break in a bit and get softer, and then gradually lose some support over time. Pillowtops are usually made out of PU foam, and those definitely lose their support. It will be somewhat dependant on the quality/density of the foam you have. I think you tried to get fairly good quality, so that will make it last longer. Some of the PU used by the S brands is cheap real low density stuff, and it just does not last. I am not sure if the firmer PU foams last longer than the softer ones, but I think they might. One of the advantages of latex is that it will stay more consistent over time. |
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sandman wrote:
I don't think I would add 2" of memory foam if you have back issues. The downside of memory foam is that it does not really provide much support. So, your heaviest areas will compress it almost completely. It is really just for comfort, and will help if the mattress is too firm. If you are still looking for comfort, you might want to try 1" on top of your softer latex. Hard to find quality 1" pieces now a days, and yes it can also make it a bit hotter if you are sensitive to that. If you got rid of the HD36 then you might be able to use more than 1" of memory foam, but you might sink through the top layers and feel too much of the firmness of the LUX. Usually it is good to have some intermediate firmness foam in between the firm base and the soft comfort layers. Most foams will break in a bit and get softer, and then gradually lose some support over time. Pillowtops are usually made out of PU foam, and those definitely lose their support. It will be somewhat dependant on the quality/density of the foam you have. I think you tried to get fairly good quality, so that will make it last longer. Some of the PU used by the S brands is cheap real low density stuff, and it just does not last. I am not sure if the firmer PU foams last longer than the softer ones, but I think they might. One of the advantages of latex is that it will stay more consistent over time. I think I can deal with the comfort issue by either another 1" of the 20ILD FBM latex (I'll test by folding over my existing piece soon), or a softer 1" from SLAB (expensive, of course). I've thought of trying some zoning too (if I get a piece of the softer stuff). I ordered (and hopefully got) the -HQ PU foam from FBM, which they claim lasts 12-18 years; no idea how to distinguish between it and the -R product, which is only 5-8 years. I'll guess I'll rotate it regularly (not hard to do with two 3" slabs plus the toppers) and keep a weather eye out for loss of support. Even if it's good for 10 years, that's still ahead of the game on a latex base. I would love to make my 6" latex work as a base, but I think it's a non-starter, given it makes my back hurt and I'm almost certain that's not due to too much support. |
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RustyShackleford wrote:
I think I can deal with the comfort issue by either another 1" of the 20ILD FBM latex (I'll test by folding over my existing piece soon), or a softer 1" from SLAB (expensive, of course). I've thought of trying some zoning too (if I get a piece of the softer stuff). I ordered (and hopefully got) the -HQ PU foam from FBM, which they claim lasts 12-18 years; no idea how to distinguish between it and the -R product, which is only 5-8 years. I'll guess I'll rotate it regularly (not hard to do with two 3" slabs plus the toppers) and keep a weather eye out for loss of support. Even if it's good for 10 years, that's still ahead of the game on a latex base. I would love to make my 6" latex work as a base, but I think it's a non-starter, given it makes my back hurt and I'm almost certain that's not due to too much support. |
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RustyShackleford wrote: from SLAB (expensive, of course). I'm sorry, but what company is SLAB? (I have been able to decipher most other acronyms, but can't find a reference to SLAB) |
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cwier60 wrote:
I'm sorry, but what company is SLAB? (I have been able to decipher most other acronyms, but can't find a reference to SLAB) |
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sandman wrote: Sleeplikeabear.com Of course! Thanks. |
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cwier60 wrote:
Of course! Thanks. |