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I need some good advise. We had a Sealy Midnight Serenade Plush Euro Pillowtop King (Sears) mattress we purchased in 2010. We really loved the mattress, as it was very plush. We started having issues recently where the pillowtop portion of the mattress began to sag to the sides. This resulted in our pillows falling between the mattress and head board. We worked with the Sears Mattress warranty department and they agreed to replace our mattress with the 2012 version of the Midnight Serenade mattress. They delivered the replacement mattress over the weekend and I noticed immedietly that the comfort level wasn't the same. The 2012 version of the mattress feels more like the firm version of the mattress we purchased in 2010. I went into the Sears showroom to discuss this with the sales representative. He explained that due to changes in the inner spring coils and an extra layer of latex that was added the result was a stiffer mattress. The 2012 version of the Midnight Serenade has a coil count of 864. The coils are Sealy's patented Titanium DSx innerspring coils. As the mattress didn't meet the same comfort level of our previous mattress we contacted the Sears mattress warranty department and they agreed we could look for another mattress that has a similar comfort level to our previous mattress. We couldn't find anything in the Sealy lineup that was as plush as our old mattress. The Sears sales representative recommended we take a look at the Simmons Beatyrest mattresses. We were able to find a mattress that felt very similar to our previous mattress at a similar price point. The model we found is the Simmons Beautyrest Copacabana Plush Pillowtop King (Sears) mattress. It has a pocket coil system instead of the traditional innerspring coil. The coil count for this mattress is 1088. The coils are made of high carbon steel. This mattress has a 360 degree foam encasement edge suport system with QuantumLock which should prevent the issue we just experienced with our previous Sealy mattress sagging along the edges. Which of these two mattresses do you feel will be better both comfort wise and durability wise in the long haul? My wife has lower back issues so I would think the pocketed coils on the Simmons Beautyrest would be a plus, as well as the fact that with pocketed coils it should conform to both of our body types better than a traditional innerspring coil system. The Sears sales representative also indicated that they typically get less mattress returns with the Simmons Beautrest brand than they do with the Sealy brand.
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| HI.. do some serious consumer reviews on the mattress of your choice.. and stay away from pillow top any mattress.. that is all you are buying.. once that condenses you are done.. and all you have left is your mattress under a pillowtop that doesn't hold up.. do some research to see if I am right.. check out some of the mattress blogs out there... you will see time and again that anyone who is a mattress expert will tell you to NOT to get a pillowtop... I have had several pillowtops and never knew it.. and thus will never purchase another again..good luck |
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Aerial I agree with Glenbury and I hate to say it but any of the S brands just don't make great products. They have great marketing but they do not produce good quality products anymore. However they or the salespeople want to say it by talking about Quantum Lock, foam encasement, etc. you need to ask about the density and quality of the foams they use. Almost all of the time the S brands use cheap foams that will break down rapidly but of course not enough to have the warranty kick in. I have a surgically repaired back so I know what a difference a good sleep surface can make. Sorry that you are having these sorts of troubles but unfortunately this is what happens when big business doesn't really care about quality anymore. If you can get your money back do it and then post here where you live and I will point you in the direction of some true craftsmen in your area who make well made mattresses. |
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First, the Sealy innerspring in 2010 and 2012 aren't drastically different, aside from the added turns the DSx coil gives you. I must give credit to Sears for addressing your issue and willing to work with you. I think that's great! I hear the opposite moreso in regards to Sears-service after-the-fact. Any brand new bed is going to be a touch firmer than one you've already broken in, it's an infallible consequence of new materials. I must highlight, bedding warranties offer to repair or replace with an equal or comparable product. Sears offering to switch to an alternate company is certainly against the grain, and Sealy would not condone this whatsoever. And not just Sealy, any manufacturer in Sealy's slippers. Comfort is preference. If you liked the comfort level from your original mattress, do your best to match that feel. When you sell as many mattresses as Sealy & Simmons, the rate of return and dissatisfaction is going to be proportionately higher than second-tier companies. One thing the S brands have going for them, is the majority of their components are proprietary. They're truly mattress manufacturers. Differing from the second tier companies, whereas they are mattress assemblers. They purchase the foams, springs, and simply put all the pieces together. This is where corners are cut and quality is lost. The consumer ends up paying the profits to multiple companies and in this process quality control is diluted. Pillowtops are not all created equal. Pillowtops are simply an added gussett of stitching to create the appearance of a thicker softer mattress. And softer foams by nature are less dense. So if you want a soft mattress with firm foams, good luck. You end up having to choose the lesser of two evils, if you will. What really matters is the composition of the materials. You can turn any firm or plush mattress into a pillowtop with an identical recipe-card of materials. This means the different looking mattresses will feel exactly the same. No I do not work for Sealy or Simmons. |
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Sleep Enthusiast,
While I agree that Sears is being very accommodating your points about the S's being mattress manufacturers vs. assemblers can be debated. Most manufacturers/assemblers who make high end beds will purchase from the same manufacturers of the components. Example would be Leggett & Platt who make innersprings for the high end big manufacturers line and are used by most of the small independent "assemblers" as your call them. But when you look at the spec sheets for the big manufacturers other materials (almost all made by other suppliers) they just don't compare. The low end mattress lines, which in actuality is anything below the S brands and other big companies absolute top of the line, use innersprings and other materials made overseas mostly in China. While the big companies will do R & D for components almost all of the time someone else produces them. So yes they are proprietary in a sense but for the most part innersprings are the same since Westphal invented it in the early 1870's. This message was modified Mar 21, 2012 by SRNH
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Thanks for the information! I get a sense from some of the replies that there are many people out there who don't like the S mattress brands. I have been using the S brand mattresses for over 20 years with no issues until this most recent issue with the edges of the pillowtop shifting. The response from Glenbury was the first I have heard of someone trying to steer me away from a pillowtop mattress. Prior to purchasing the Sealy Midnight Serenade King mattress in 2010 we had a Sealy pillowtop Queen mattress that is still in use today in my daughter's room. It's still quite comfortable after over 15 years. So far none of the responses addresses my main question on whether or not the traditional innerspring coil or pocketed coils would be better for comfort and long term durability. I definitely agree with SleepEnthusiast that they new mattress will be more firm until the materials are broken in, but our 2010 Sealy Midnight Serenade was definitely softer from day 1. The sales specialist indicated that an additional layer of latex was added along with the stiffer springs that resulted in a slightly firmer feel. Part of me thinks maybe this is a good thing and that the added layer of latex and the stiffer springs will result in a more durable mattress. To SRNH's comment, I doubt Sears is going to allow me to get my money back after 2 years, and even if they would I would end up on the short end of the stick because I got the mattress on a deep discount when they were clearing out the previous year's models for the new models. I still haven't called the Sears mattress warranty department back to let them know that the only mattress I could find with a similar comfort level and feel to our old mattress was a Simmons Beautyrest and not a Sealy. They are at the same price point, but I don't know if they will let me switch mattress suppliers. Thanks for the information! Any advise you could provide on innerspring vs. pocketed coils would be great! |
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Unfortunately neither the extra layer of latex foam nor the 'stiffer' springs will contribute to a more durable mattress in the long haul. Because neither one of them prevents the low quality polyurethane foams from breaking down in the pillow top. Springs are important, but even cheap springs rarely fail so are rarely a major factor in durability. Out of the two I would probably recommend the Beautyrest as I believe a more conforming spring is best. But I love how ordinary mattress salespeople are now becoming metallurgists. Personally I would never want titanium added to steel springs, assuming the guage of wire is the same titanium is not even close to as strong as most steels. Nor is it as elastic, which means when it does deform is does not return to its original condition as well; the only upside of titanium is that is a lot less dense than steel so it will be lighter. Carbon however does make steel stronger, albeit also more brittle so there is a limit on how much you would want a spring that by nature is supposed to be flexible. And all steel by definition contains some carbon...chances are high carbon content is also not a very good thing. In any event, if you have not heard that pillowtops break down quickly you have only read reviews from 'new' customers. They do break down quickly and I would also advice you to stay away from them. 'S Brand' as well as other big mass produced mattress companies like Kingsdown, Spring Air, etc have all taken large drops in quality over time. |
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Thanks Budgy! Is a Eurotop considered the same as a Pillowtop? Trying to look at what other options are available for me that aren't a pillowtop.
This message was modified Mar 22, 2012 by a moderator
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I did not like my only Simmons pocket spring mattress. It felt to me as if some coils would be held down by your pressure/bearing points, and the neighboring coils not held down were free to push up. I found it more annoying than contouring. Donated it to charity and went back to innerspring. As for pillowtops... I avoid them. As I see them, the material soon suffers body set, creating an indentation that negatively affects your sleep posture and makes it more troublesome to change positions. They can also make it more difficult to assess (disguise) the core response of the mattress. Of course, maybe some pillow tops are built better than others, but nearly all such padding breaks down sooner than later (except perhaps Latex foam rubber?) leaving you with a dead pillow top sleep surface. GK |
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I took the advise given here and tried finding a Sealy mattress that is plush without the pillowtop. Below are the 3 options I found. Can someone provide some feedback on the mattresses below? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_08212785000P?prdNo=9 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_08212716000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6 |
| Well I found out first hand today why I will never shop at Sears again. We followed the warranty departments instructions and found a mattress that closely matched the comfort level of our original mattress we just had replaced a week ago under warranty. As I mentioned in our origianal message the replacement mattress was the same in brand and model only. The comfort level wasn't anywhere close to the same. We found a mattress we liked that was very similar to our old mattress. Only issue is it was a Simmons Beautyrest instead of a Sealy. The warranty department then informed me that I would need to pay the difference in price between what we paid in 2010 for our Sealy and the current price of the Simmons Beautyrest, even though the Simmons Beautyrest is less expensive than the current Sealy model we were delivered. As if that wasn't enough, they indicated we would also need to pay the delivery fee. So to get a mattress with the same comfort level we previously had and were happy with we have to pay an additional $126.00. It very clear to see why Sears is clsoing so many stores and is well on it's way to being closed for good. At this point we don't have much of a choice, as I refuse to sleep on the mattress they delivered Saturday for the next 10 years. |
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It's really unfortunate, really. You had a perfectly good sleeping surface until it broke down a few years later. The real evil is that your new mattress would probably break down even faster. This can be good or bad because it might end up being softer or more manageable for you to sleep on. Also consider that what worked for your body a few years ago might not be perfectly comfortable for you now because your body may also handle the support differently.
Here is my advice: Get an ultra firm mattress with no pillow top or anything that they won't charge you more for. Then, build a pillow top using the different layers of soft latex or memory foam until you get a result that is perfect for you. There will be a bit of trial and error but you may end up with a mattress that is going to last you another 10 or 15 years. |