The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
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Okay, maybe we can't be sensitive enough to feel a pea under 12 mattresses, or however it went in "The Princess and the Pea" story... but I now believe that some of us can definitely have our mattress "ruined" by just the wrong 1/2" layer... As you know, I did mattress surgery on my Englander and it was immediately like 300% better than the pure foam I had been sleeping on ... and much better than the Englander as it came (with 3" of cheap foam on top of the springs). But being that I have back and neck and shoulder issues, I was always trying different things - change a layer here and there, just to try to get it "perfect". Well, about a month or so ago I started using my 2" wool topper. I love the feel of it and when I lay on it, the 2" shrinks down to about 1/2" under my body weight, and it felt very cozy and comfortable. After a week or two, I started waking up with a sore back again, like when I used to sleep on pure foam (no springs). I had also changed a couple things, like zoning the middle layer to be firmer, and so on, but in the past this never caused me to wake up with pain, it would only make it a little less or more comfortable. So I kept tweaking the mattress - no major changes, just little things like adding a 1/2" of memory foam on top or under the top 3/4" latex layer, things like that. But my back started hurting BAD about a week ago, and the only thing I could think of was that maybe I had just tweaked my back out of shape carrying some heavy things recently or doing a lot of bending or something. I then tried making some more major changes to my mattress: I put a 1/2" layer of ultra firm HR foam on the very bottom next to the springs. ... Then when that didn't work, I tried changing the HR 1" layer above that to Very Firm... No matter what I did, my back kept hurting... and it seemed that all the changes made it WORSE, not better. Then finally, 2 nights ago, I said, "Well, I'm going to put it all back EXACTLY the way it was when it last worked for me. I did that, and it was better, but it STILL hurt my back somewhat. It was then that I said, "Wait! COULD IT BE that the 2" (1/2" really) wool topper is what caused all this??" I took it off. Slept. Now I woke up this morning with no back pain, and I am pretty sure that the whole problem with my mattress began shortly after I started using the wool topper, and that taking it off is what has made the difference! In support of the truth of this ultra-sensitivity is that in the past I also noticed that the CuddleBed - which is only about 1/2" thick when you lay on it, also seemed to throw off the comfort of my mattress and so I quit using that. I was skeptical at the time and thought maybe it was just my imagination and that's why I did try the wool topper as well, knowing full well that it also was about 1/2" of non-supportive material. It's still hard for me to believe that 1/2" of anything could cause me to wake up with a very sore back, but it sure seems like this is the case. Which is why I am posting this for others to consider, who may also have high sensitivity to the support or non-support of their mattress! When tweaking make SMALL changes, not big ones! And even if it feels okay at first, after a week or two it may start to bother you. The thing to look at first is the latest change you've made! It's most likely the culprit. I have found, for example, that memory foam may feel fine for a week or two, and then break down and cause back pain. So I am back to my original configuration: from the top, down: 3/4" latex (maybe 20-24ILD) 1" Venus foam 1" zoned HR foam (medium at shoulders, Firm in the mid-section feet/legs section doesn't matter) Englander Springs DISCLAIMER: This all could be coincidence. Maybe my back got bent out of shape and it just so happened that it self-healed about the same time that I took the wool topper off. But I doubt that... Also: This whole ultra-sensitivity thing is probably not something most people have. I think when one has chronic pain when laying in bed, one tends to focus on what is causing the discomfort and that can lead to one being more sensitive to changes in one's mattress. My guess is that some of us here have come to be ultra-sensitive to our mattress due to chronic pain from an injury or disease.) This message was modified Nov 17, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
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Right, Eagle2. I am pretty sure I joined this forum originally in 2001 but somehow they lost my membership and it says I joined in 2008 and even if I go back to the old forum it says there I joined in 2004 but I know that is not true, either, because I have posts there that are way after I had bought a flobed and experimented with foam. So as near as I can tell I joined in 2001. Which is neither here nor there, but I just researched it yesterday so it just occured to me to point out that I came here for the first time a LONG time ago! My point is that I have learned a LOT over the years, here! Even back in 2001 or so, there were plenty of Do It Yourselfers on here. And it was my first ever exposure to latex as a mattress material. I thought "What?! Sleeping on rubber?!"   I went through several S-brand mattresses in my search, tried latex, tried memory foam, tried HR foam, M-Grade foam, and finally settled on mattress surgery as the best way to make my bed MY way...This forum has led me through many experiences with DIY mattresses, none of which I'd have known about had I not discovered this forum. I don't know who pays for this forum but I want to thank them right here - since Thanksgiving is tomorrow - and say: "Good for you, for providing such a great public service where all these people can come and learn about mattresses and all things "sleep", and with no censorship regarding our opinions of various mattresses!" I consider myself still a learner, still an experimenter, still learning and trying things, and still looking for answers to help me with my own personal sleep issues (bad back, bad neck, bad shoulder...!) I hope this forum stays around forever, so more and more people can learn the truth about mattresses, and get some ideas of how they can build their own mattresses, or buy from companies that offer great sleep trials and full disclosure of the materials inside their mattresses! This message was modified Nov 25, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
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JIm: I was watching television the other day and they came on with an add for one of those flip type lay down stretching devices. And I thought of you. You might want to look into something like that. The concept is pretty simple. You lay down on this platform like device that is attached to a frame and tilt yourself upside down. Your feet are secured to the bottom of the platform. Gravity does the rest. With my bad back I have thought of something like this many times before. But I have never ventured forth and spent my money. You might want to look into it. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
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Hi Jim, I agree about the Cuddlebed, I tried over and over again to use it, and it caused me more pain than helping. I still too have hip pain after 3 hours sleeping or more and it wakes me. I sleep fine on the back though. I am thinking about changing my layers too, but like you when I do it ends up worse than what I have now. I Have 1" memory foam (cheap stuff), 1" 14 ILD latex, 1 3/4" 24 ILD talalay latex, and 1 3/4" firm Dunlop. I know that sounds like a lot, but it all compresses (mostly) over springs. So I am thinking of adding another soft layer of latex. I use a polyester blanket as a mattress pad, and actually it has worked out fine. It is no worse than a mattress pad, in fact it is better. Also jersey sheets are over that. It stretches and it helps my shoulder tremendously. I agree with you about finding the perfect comfort level. I too keep notes, and it even gets confusing trying to understand how I had it setup before. Oh yeah, I have firm Dunlop under my lower legs, instead of the 24 ILD, since I didn't have enough for that layer. It is fine and I don't notice any difference. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
| I have the same problem with foam and latex. I've gone through 3 memory and 2 latex pads before I realized I was buying an inferior product. Bed companies have it good. They sell mattresses that look exactly the same and they can throw any price on it as long as they can give a good sales pitch. And the best part for (for bed companies) is that latex and foam feel the most comfortable when you initially lay down and just so happens is dirt cheap. Its impossible to get 100% latex even though they claim it to be. Its artifial and cheap to make. Its human nature to care more about yourself then the guy beside you so thats why mattresses companies are as bad as car salesmen. True happiness is when you can leave this world without a single possession and be happy because your closest friends have a fulfilling life (loving family, kids, house). Infact your a lucky person if you live your intire life and find someone who you can truely call a friend. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
| Sleep country is an exellent example of the mattress industry. There a household name and they offer an exchange if your not happy. they'll even beat any price by 5% and they carry name brands and to top it all off they'll great you with a smile. In reality they carry mattresses that cost maybe 150 bucks to make ( or less). There already expecting to be unhappy with them and say "the mattress i bought from you hurts my hips and back I want an exchange", they'll give you the exchange because they've already factored that into there mattress price so they can still make a huge profit (compared to doing things the honest way). They give every mattress there own name ex. ( Simmons ------> (beautysleep) <-------- ). The benefit for sleepcountry is that if you find an awsome mattress for a great deal at a different mattress store they'll beat that deal by matching you up with there shitty "equivilant model" which will feel nice at first because of the nasa approved memory or latex foam and hurt your back later on. By the way in rank from worst to better (but still bad ) i'd rate the companies in this order: Serta's then simmons then sealy/sterns and foster (Donald trump's mattress line, he just wants your money). In stuffing quality memory foam is wost followed by latex then (coton and wool) which is in every mattress because of its flame retardent properties high aswell as low quality, followed by (hogs hair and mohair) and the best I belive would be horse hair but don't quote me on it. Its funny too because if you were to put these materials in order of price it would be exactly the same. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
I have the same problem with foam and latex. I've gone through 3 memory and 2 latex pads before I realized I was buying an inferior product. Bed companies have it good. They sell mattresses that look exactly the same and they can throw any price on it as long as they can give a good sales pitch. And the best part for (for bed companies) is that latex and foam feel the most comfortable when you initially lay down and just so happens is dirt cheap. Its impossible to get 100% latex even though they claim it to be. Its artifial and cheap to make. Its human nature to care more about yourself then the guy beside you so thats why mattresses companies are as bad as car salesmen. True happiness is when you can leave this world without a single possession and be happy because your closest friends have a fulfilling life (loving family, kids, house). Infact your a lucky person if you live your intire life and find someone who you can truely call a friend. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
| sorry about the extra messages I guess I did not refresh my screen and thought that my post did not work |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
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I'm about to talk about some of the highest quality brands i've found. Pros: Hastens seems to have excellent stuffing some of the best I've seen. Cons: But I question the springs spacing and quality plus the fact that they are not honeycombed pockets so they can move around over time That being said for all i know they may be the best. Pros: Vi spring seems to have good springs on first impressions from there website. I am going to lay on them in the next week Cons: But they seemed to have watered down there horsehair with other materials mohair, wool... ex.. this is off there website "1,200 gsm of hand-teased loose long-stranded black horsehair, lambswool" but they don't say how much is actually horsehair and how much is actually lambswool and lambswool is dirtcheap compared to horsehair. and in the vispring video you can see the springs are probably better than hastens but that the horsehair is mixed alot with other hairs so the quality is diminished. Hastens and Vi-spring both seem find one aspect of the bed and excell and give a decent attempt in everything else. But they both don't use any memory and latex foam so It shows they care more about your sleep then alot of other companies. Basically all mattress companies care more there customers money then they d about there sleep so its are job as consumers to support the one mattress company who care slightly more then the rest and just hope to god it sets off a chain reation. relyon and somnus might be also worth looking into, the ones that don't have foam and latex. My advice is to not wast to much time on the internet because for every one person who loses 2000$ on a mattress and post his opinion theres someone else who is paid 15$ an hour to post 10 messages of garbage. I think to find a good mattress you need to try a couple quality brands out and you might have to drive a far distant. If you do find one thats comfortable spend MINIMUM 4 hours lying on it(seriosly). other notable mentions are somnus, and relyon (the ones without latex and foam). If you buy a mattress regarless if its good or bad tell your friends and family exactly what you think of it and even let them sleep in it so they can make better judgement. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
| I woudn't recommened dux or hipnos. But duxana is the worst of the 2. |
Re: The Prince and the Pea... yes, we really can be that sensitive!
| if your back is in pain all the time its nerves become more and more sensitive. If you wake up in the morning and your back it sore and it slowly gets better throughout the day and you don't have a increased pain when lifting things then i'd say you have a bad bed. chiropractors are not your answer. They will pop your back into place but that is only a temporary fix because a bad bed will always bring it back. Also the more your pop a back into place the easier the back will pop back out of place after a night of sleep, so its almost counter productive. A better alternative but still poinless is A physiotherapist who might still pop your back into place but will focus on stenghening your muscles to support your bones better but in conclusion the only way to fix the pain is by fixing the source of the problem which is the bed. You may have read this before but don't fall for the 50% off mattress pitch, its the oldest trick in the book. Base a bed by how it feels after laying on it for 6 hours or better yet sleeping on it not how much its discounted. Also ask if you can sleep on the mattress overnight in the store and work around there schedual to make it happen even pay them 50-250$ if thats what it takes. It may sound a little cheap to the salesman that you take such a precaution in spending your money but just remember the reason this is happening is because mattress companies lost consumer trust by penny pinching on the fabrication of their mattresses. |