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As most of you know I have been experimenting with my mattress which basically consists of, top to bottom, top 1/3 zone to middle 1/3 zone: TOP 1/3 of mattress (shoulder area) MIDDLE 1/3 of mattress (hip area) This is my current configuration which seems to work pretty well so far, though I'm still experimenting. But at first the zones I had made were killing my back and I figured out why: On the next to top layer, under the soft pu layer, I had different densities of foam so there was a line right at my waist which was the division between, say, a medium one What I realized is that I HAVE to have the same density of foam on that top layer (next to top layer, not counting the topper, it's the top layer). Otherwise I was getting a line of pressure across my waist from the difference in densities. I assume I also need to have the topper be an even firmness all the way down the length of the mattress.) So once I began using Medium firmness or medium ILD for that next-to-top layer for both my top 1/3 and the middle 1/3 of my mattress, that pressure line disappeared and This may not be true for everyone, but it was certainly true for me! Hope this might help someone who is zoning. I'm curious if anyone else has ever run into this problem. |
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Cloud9, does the carpet cover your entire bed, or just across the hip area? I'm paying a lot of attention to all of this zoning talk as I think it won't be long before I take apart our mattress. We have only had the mattress for three months and I can feel the area under my hips that takes the brunt of my weight (all 125 llbs of me) starting to break down. It feels a lot softer than the rest of the bed, but visually looks no different, so I know there is no way that any warranty will come into play. We have been trying various toppers that I realize are only exacerbating the problem since they contour into the dip made by my hips. I think if I can have something a little more rigid across that area, it will create a better base for a (zoned) topper. Having the surface under your hips higher than your shoulders as mccldwll says, makes a lot of sense as the hips sink in so much more than the shoulders. I have checked this out by placing a fairly flat down pillow underneath me and can feel the relief on my spine as it is brought more into alignment. Thanks to Jim and mccldwll for sharing all of their great information about zoning. I'm finding it all very interesting. |
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kimmcgov wrote: We have only had the mattress for three months and I can feel the area under my hips that takes the brunt of my weight (all 125 llbs of me) starting to break down. It feels a lot softer than the rest of the bed, but visually looks no different, so I know there is no way that any warranty will come into play. It might be time to do surgery and remove any foam built in to your mattress and get down to the springs. Build off of that with new foam. It is surprising how fast this happens nowadays. |
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Kim, at the moment I have two foot mat sized pieces of carpet remnant on the bed. I picked them up at the 99 cent store to experiement. I was thinking of going to a carpeting store and getting a bed-sized remnant cut, but at times I like to move off the really firm area of the mattress on to something softer so I decided to keep things the way they are. One piece went under the hip area and the other one under the shoulders since I am one of those rare individuals that actually like it firm under my shoulder as well. The hip area also has a flat feather pillow over the carpeting and a sheet of half inch HR foam over the pillow. The shoulder area has a piece of soft eggcrate foam over it. Everything is covered by a 1" visco topper. I'm not sure the carpeting method will work unless everything is covered by one uniform piece of foam, and it certainly won't work for everyone, but it seems to be working for me. I was beginning to think it was just my imagination that the foam on the bed felt much softer and less supportive than it did a few months ago, but after reading Jimsocal's post about the foam on his Sealy, I'm sure it actually is much softer. Your post only confirmed it. Maybe it will be time to do some mattress surgery sooner rather than later. |
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mccldwll wrote: "I got the idea from mccldwll as I recall, and so thought it was worth a try. " Actually, I suggest that hip area be thicker than shoulders. Figure out minimum amount of foam at whatever ILD is needed for shoulders. Then for hips use higher ILD and whatever thickness is necessary to keep spine level/parallel to floor.
Well, thanks to all for your comments and suggestions. My mattress is getting better but I'm still tweaking it. I'll try some of these suggestions. Thanks. |
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Found this on Beckley (sp?) mattress site--"zoning" with extra materials (and I believe the Holland coil system is also zoned by definition): "Handfilled: All fillings material is placed in the mattress by hand. This enables the mattress makers to shape the matterss, putting more material where there will be the most body weight. This "crowning" of the mattress assures better wear." |
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Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) ) I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it: 1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm? 2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please) I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( |
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jimsocal wrote: Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) ) I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it: 1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm? 2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please) I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( 1) I hit upon making the hip section thicker just by accident: When my old mattress started sagging I stuck an old flattened feather pillow under all my toppers to fill up the ditch. It made the mattress slightly higher there, but I discovered when I slept on it the pillow squashed down under my hips but contoured to my waist making everything more comfortable and supportive. After reading mccldwll's post about the Beckley it seems like I was on to something. Simply put, thicker makes the mattress more comfortable where you are apt to feel pressure points and the contouring offers better support. Firmer on the other hand might just be hard. That's why I had to cover the carpeting--which makes the mattress firmer--with something that also made it comfortable to lie on. 2) I would put everything under the topper. This keeps all the pieces in place and provides a more or less uniform surface. However, if you have multiple layers you might find that placing various components at different levels in relation to the top layer fine tunes your comfort level more effectively. For instance I was experiementing with my 1" Brylane latex topper again. I liked the way it felt under the 1" visco but for some reason my pillow felt a little uncomfortable and I was getting a twinge of fatigue across my shoulder blades. This suggested to me that it was just too soft despite the fact that I had a layer of carpeting underneath the toppers. That got me thinking that I could just move the section of carpeting under my shoulder up one level and place it between the latex and the visco. This is why I like working with 1" layers. They are much more flexible than 2" layers. Moving the carpet section firmed up the shoulder area and fixed the problem. As to whether the hip area should be soft medium or firm. That's something you'll have to experiement with. Since you have lower back pain and need to keep your hips from sinking into the mattress, I'd say you need to go firm and then tweak the comfort layers as needed. This is where half inch HR foam comes in handy. You can place a layer or two over the firm support material and build it up to eliminate pressure points until you strike the right balance between the two. I'd try to stay away from using really soft foam in the lumbar area. I found this was making my back ache. HR foam is more supportive.
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jimsocal wrote: Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) )</p><p>I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it:</p><p>1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm?</p><p>2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please)</p><p>I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( IMO, the idea/concept is to keep the spine parallel to the floor. Do the magic marker again, or if you used indelible, line should still be there ;). ILD or thickness accomplish the same objective, i.e., creating a final resting height for the hips. But if you rely on firmness alone, probably won't be comfortable enough. For example, if all you had to work with was @24 ILD material, you probably could make the shoulders 6" thick, and the hips 12"-15" thick, and end up fairly level (although that configuration if transitioned abruptly would put too much pressure in waist/thorax region. And to best distribute pressure, might find that a bit of tweaking with a 1" x 8" or so strip in the waistllumbar region would effective. |
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"The hip area also has a flat feather pillow over the carpeting and a sheet of half inch HR foam over the pillow. The shoulder area has a piece of soft eggcrate foam over it. Everything is covered by a visco topper. I'm not sure the carpeting method will work unless everything is covered by one uniform piece of foam, and it certainly won't work for everyone, but it seems to be working for me" Cloud9, what weight is your visco foam, do you know? Is it 5llb? And how is it holding up being only 1 inch thick? Did you try other materials (HR foam, latex?) before deciding on the memory foam? This message was modified Mar 1, 2008 by kimmcgov
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mccldwll wrote: IMO, the idea/concept is to keep the spine parallel to the floor. Do the magic marker again, or if you used indelible, line should still be there ;). ILD or thickness accomplish the same objective, i.e., creating a final resting height for the hips. But if you rely on firmness alone, probably won't be comfortable enough. For example, if all you had to work with was @24 ILD material, you probably could make the shoulders 6" thick, and the hips 12"-15" thick, and end up fairly level (although that configuration if transitioned abruptly would put too much pressure in waist/thorax region. And to best distribute pressure, might find that a bit of tweaking with a 1" x 8" or so strip in the waistllumbar region would effective. I have been doing the magic marker thing and having my wife take photos of my spine as I lay on my side. I have come up with various different combinations of foam in which my spine appears to stay straight. BUT, that doesn't seem to be the only factor. For example, as I mentioned before, if there is a big difference - or not so big difference - between the ILD's of my shoulders and hip zones, then I feel that as a line of pressure that goes across my body at the line (25" down from the head of the bed), and that causes me discomfort. The other night I tried putting just an extra 3/4" of soft latex in my hip section underneath the 1" PU egg crate topper that goes all the way across the length of my bed, so my mid section had that extra 3/4" of padding, and that KILLED my back! I woke up with a terrible back pain. Even though the photos showed my spine as being straight. I can't explain it. I only know what I felt. I suppose it is possible that the photos are "lying", that it looks straight but maybe is off a little. So I am trying to make the ILD differences further down into the bed, close to the bottom layer, not at all near the top where it will bother me. (Actually right now I am back to trying NO zoning, just straight across Medium.) As someone else said, I am making my mattress different every day and it's really getting annoying! Yet I have no choice, because I wake up with pain every day. I have thought many times in the past that maybe there is NO WAY I can make sleeping not hurt. That might be the case. But I feel the need to keep trying. So any further ideas or insights are welcome. |