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As most of you know I have been experimenting with my mattress which basically consists of, top to bottom, top 1/3 zone to middle 1/3 zone: TOP 1/3 of mattress (shoulder area) MIDDLE 1/3 of mattress (hip area) This is my current configuration which seems to work pretty well so far, though I'm still experimenting. But at first the zones I had made were killing my back and I figured out why: On the next to top layer, under the soft pu layer, I had different densities of foam so there was a line right at my waist which was the division between, say, a medium one What I realized is that I HAVE to have the same density of foam on that top layer (next to top layer, not counting the topper, it's the top layer). Otherwise I was getting a line of pressure across my waist from the difference in densities. I assume I also need to have the topper be an even firmness all the way down the length of the mattress.) So once I began using Medium firmness or medium ILD for that next-to-top layer for both my top 1/3 and the middle 1/3 of my mattress, that pressure line disappeared and This may not be true for everyone, but it was certainly true for me! Hope this might help someone who is zoning. I'm curious if anyone else has ever run into this problem. |
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Found this on Beckley (sp?) mattress site--"zoning" with extra materials (and I believe the Holland coil system is also zoned by definition): "Handfilled: All fillings material is placed in the mattress by hand. This enables the mattress makers to shape the matterss, putting more material where there will be the most body weight. This "crowning" of the mattress assures better wear." |
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Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) ) I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it: 1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm? 2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please) I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( |
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jimsocal wrote: Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) ) I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it: 1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm? 2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please) I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( 1) I hit upon making the hip section thicker just by accident: When my old mattress started sagging I stuck an old flattened feather pillow under all my toppers to fill up the ditch. It made the mattress slightly higher there, but I discovered when I slept on it the pillow squashed down under my hips but contoured to my waist making everything more comfortable and supportive. After reading mccldwll's post about the Beckley it seems like I was on to something. Simply put, thicker makes the mattress more comfortable where you are apt to feel pressure points and the contouring offers better support. Firmer on the other hand might just be hard. That's why I had to cover the carpeting--which makes the mattress firmer--with something that also made it comfortable to lie on. 2) I would put everything under the topper. This keeps all the pieces in place and provides a more or less uniform surface. However, if you have multiple layers you might find that placing various components at different levels in relation to the top layer fine tunes your comfort level more effectively. For instance I was experiementing with my 1" Brylane latex topper again. I liked the way it felt under the 1" visco but for some reason my pillow felt a little uncomfortable and I was getting a twinge of fatigue across my shoulder blades. This suggested to me that it was just too soft despite the fact that I had a layer of carpeting underneath the toppers. That got me thinking that I could just move the section of carpeting under my shoulder up one level and place it between the latex and the visco. This is why I like working with 1" layers. They are much more flexible than 2" layers. Moving the carpet section firmed up the shoulder area and fixed the problem. As to whether the hip area should be soft medium or firm. That's something you'll have to experiement with. Since you have lower back pain and need to keep your hips from sinking into the mattress, I'd say you need to go firm and then tweak the comfort layers as needed. This is where half inch HR foam comes in handy. You can place a layer or two over the firm support material and build it up to eliminate pressure points until you strike the right balance between the two. I'd try to stay away from using really soft foam in the lumbar area. I found this was making my back ache. HR foam is more supportive.
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jimsocal wrote: Okay, so I remade my mattress from the top up today (most people "make their bed", I make my mattress! ;-) )</p><p>I won't go into the specifics of what I did yet, but I have 2 questions about zoning it:</p><p>1) You guys say to make the hip section thicker. Why thicker and not just more firm?</p><p>2) If I do add a layer - do I add it down low, towards the bottom, or towards the top - say, under the topper? And should the added layer for the hip zone be something soft, medium or firm? (I Irecognize these answers may not be definitively answerable but give it your best guess please)</p><p>I did add a layer in my hip secton today but I was half asleep when I did it and I think I added it too close to the top and too soft... ;-( IMO, the idea/concept is to keep the spine parallel to the floor. Do the magic marker again, or if you used indelible, line should still be there ;). ILD or thickness accomplish the same objective, i.e., creating a final resting height for the hips. But if you rely on firmness alone, probably won't be comfortable enough. For example, if all you had to work with was @24 ILD material, you probably could make the shoulders 6" thick, and the hips 12"-15" thick, and end up fairly level (although that configuration if transitioned abruptly would put too much pressure in waist/thorax region. And to best distribute pressure, might find that a bit of tweaking with a 1" x 8" or so strip in the waistllumbar region would effective. |
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"The hip area also has a flat feather pillow over the carpeting and a sheet of half inch HR foam over the pillow. The shoulder area has a piece of soft eggcrate foam over it. Everything is covered by a visco topper. I'm not sure the carpeting method will work unless everything is covered by one uniform piece of foam, and it certainly won't work for everyone, but it seems to be working for me" Cloud9, what weight is your visco foam, do you know? Is it 5llb? And how is it holding up being only 1 inch thick? Did you try other materials (HR foam, latex?) before deciding on the memory foam? This message was modified Mar 1, 2008 by kimmcgov
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mccldwll wrote: IMO, the idea/concept is to keep the spine parallel to the floor. Do the magic marker again, or if you used indelible, line should still be there ;). ILD or thickness accomplish the same objective, i.e., creating a final resting height for the hips. But if you rely on firmness alone, probably won't be comfortable enough. For example, if all you had to work with was @24 ILD material, you probably could make the shoulders 6" thick, and the hips 12"-15" thick, and end up fairly level (although that configuration if transitioned abruptly would put too much pressure in waist/thorax region. And to best distribute pressure, might find that a bit of tweaking with a 1" x 8" or so strip in the waistllumbar region would effective. I have been doing the magic marker thing and having my wife take photos of my spine as I lay on my side. I have come up with various different combinations of foam in which my spine appears to stay straight. BUT, that doesn't seem to be the only factor. For example, as I mentioned before, if there is a big difference - or not so big difference - between the ILD's of my shoulders and hip zones, then I feel that as a line of pressure that goes across my body at the line (25" down from the head of the bed), and that causes me discomfort. The other night I tried putting just an extra 3/4" of soft latex in my hip section underneath the 1" PU egg crate topper that goes all the way across the length of my bed, so my mid section had that extra 3/4" of padding, and that KILLED my back! I woke up with a terrible back pain. Even though the photos showed my spine as being straight. I can't explain it. I only know what I felt. I suppose it is possible that the photos are "lying", that it looks straight but maybe is off a little. So I am trying to make the ILD differences further down into the bed, close to the bottom layer, not at all near the top where it will bother me. (Actually right now I am back to trying NO zoning, just straight across Medium.) As someone else said, I am making my mattress different every day and it's really getting annoying! Yet I have no choice, because I wake up with pain every day. I have thought many times in the past that maybe there is NO WAY I can make sleeping not hurt. That might be the case. But I feel the need to keep trying. So any further ideas or insights are welcome. |
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jimsocal wrote: ...I wake up with pain every day. I have thought many times in the past that maybe there is NO WAY I can make sleeping not hurt. That might be the case. But I feel the need to keep trying. So any further ideas or insights are welcome. If you are at your wits end, you might just want to try a self inflating Thermarest pad underneath one or two layers of latex. This has been the best solution we have tried so far. You can get one at REI where they have several different models to choose from. The XL size is 30 inches wide and they come in different thicknesses. You can tweak the firmness during the night by adding or letting out a little air. As I said in another thread, they are the equivalent of a poor man's Sleep by Numbers... These things aren't cheap, but unlike most inflatable mattresses, they are bomb-proof. And the great thing about getting one from REI is that you can return it at any time for any reason... |
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kimmcgov wrote: If you are at your wits end, you might just want to try a self inflating Thermarest pad underneath one or two layers of latex. This has been the best solution we have tried so far. You can get one at REI where they have several different models to choose from. The XL size is 30 inches wide and they come in different thicknesses. You can tweak the firmness during the night by adding or letting out a little air. As I said in another thread, they are the equivalent of a poor man's Sleep by Numbers... These things aren't cheap, but unlike most inflatable mattresses, they are bomb-proof. And the great thing about getting one from REI is that you can return it at any time for any reason...
We do have one of these but it's very narrow and not too thick - just used for camping. I think our's is way too narrow to use even for my twin bed. 30" wide might work. Too bad they don't make them 37" wide! Then we'd really have something we could play with in our modular mattresses! As to tweaking them in the night, are you using it right on top, below your sheet or what? If I put it under my topper(s) and fitted sheet I sure wouldn't want to get up in the middle of the night and re-make my mattress - take off the sheets, get down under the topper(s) and add or release air... But it would work as another "topper layer" in my mattress, perhaps the next layer from the top, under some latex or soft PU foam. |
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kimmcgov wrote: Cloud9, what weight is your visco foam, do you know? Is it 5llb? And how is it holding up being only 1 inch thick? Did you try other materials (HR foam, latex?) before deciding on the memory foam?
Have I tried other materials? Oh yeah! Lots of them. Fiber pads, eggcrates. I also have one of those Brylane toppers which I'm keeping for when I reconstruct my mattress. And then there's carpeting and HR foam and a flat feather pillow.... It's very complicated. Overall I like the feeling of memory foam best. It has this nice cradling feeling. Talalay just feels jiggly and unstable to me. PU foam is too mushy. I like HR foam for it's firm supportive qualities. But back to memory foam. I'm not really crazy about 5lb visco. It's too temperature sensitive and too slow to recover. In general I've found the lower the density the cooler the foam sleeps and the faster the recovery. This makes it behave more like conventional foam so you don't find yourself rolling back into a ditch. I know there are some new visco foams out there that are supposed to be ventilated to sleep cooler and some higher density foams that sleep firmer, but I like memory foam primarily as a soft top layer over firmer support materials. |
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jimsocal wrote: Hi, which thickness of the Thermarest are you using? As to tweaking them in the night, are you using it right on top, below your sheet or what? The ones we have are a couple of inches think (maybe 1.75 inches) and 27 inches wide. We have them on top of the mattress with the 1 inch latex topper and fleece wool topper over them. If you put the nozzle at the top and on the outside and leave your sheet loose there so you can pull it up and let out a little air if you need to in the night. To add air you'll need to get out of bed. It will only take a night or two to dial it in, then you are good to go and can tuck the sheet back in. Even though the pads combined are less than the width of our Queen size bed, with the latex and wool pad on top, it just looks like the normal crowning you get on a plush, non-pillowtop mattress. I do want to get something else that will replicate the firmness of the Thermarest as having a nozzle on the bed seems a little weird, but we are sleeping great on this set up -- better than we have in months. |