Mattress Forum

Have you had the chance to lay on some latex mattresses to get a sense of what works for you? Latex has a different feel from polyfoam and how it feels depends a lot on how far you sink in and the ILD and layering. In general this would seem like a pretty firm mattress to me since most of your comfort layer is 32 ILD (which other people would like). A lot of people make comments that when they actually try latex it is actually softer or firmer than they expected. This would probably be OK if you were a back or stomach sleeper ... not quite so good for side sleeping ... YMMV.

I would probably use a different supplier for your latex layers at the very least. While FBM often has a low initial cost ... they also will often send you something different from what you ordered (especially with the latex they sell) and if this happens it can cause a lot more problems and cost you a lot more money than you may expect. There are low cost latex options available that you can be much more certain that what you pay for is what you get and it will probably save you money in the long run to buy from a supplier with a better reputation.

The support layers you have are HD foam (2.0 lb/cu ft) which is great for cost but does not have the support "range" of HR poly (2.5 lb/cu ft and higher) to accomodate different sleeping positions as well. 50ILD is also pretty firm which may or may not be a good thing (depending on what your needs are and what any field testing tells you works the best). If you can get a sense of what you need, thicker layers ... especially in the support layers of your mattress ... generally work better than many thinner layers.

Overall what I would say about this layout is "it depends" on how you sleep and what you have discovered in laying on mattresses "in the field".

Phoenix

Thanks for the reply, Phoenix.  Your knowledge on the subject is really impressive and obviously helpful to many people here.

To answer your question, I have not laid on any latex mattresses yet, and as foolish as it sounds, am not sure I will before making a purchase.  I'm not going to be able to replicate the above setup at a mattress store and if I lay on an all-latex mattress, it wont prove much for me.  What I like about a setup such as above is that I can make adjustments if I dont get it right the first time.  I would love to go the SleepEZ or Flobed route, but I don't have the budget for it.

Regarding FBM, I've read some less than stellar comments, but for each of those I've read multiple positive accounts of their products working well.  I'm probably willing to substitute a less-perfect product for savings of hundreds.  I really dont consider myself too picky with a mattress and as someone without back problems, am not trying to assemble the holy-grail of mattresses, rather something that will be comfortable and last a decent while.  No matter what I order, I'm certain it'll be better than the spring mattress I'm on now...

With that said, I'd be willing to look at other retailers for latex if it would ensure better quality at a low price.  Suggestions would certainly be appreciated

Could you also confirm about the HD foam being 2.0lb/cu ft?  I see the HD36 High Quality as being 2.8lb. cu/ft on the site. 

Thanks!

If you could tell me more about your sleeping positions it may help a bit to make better suggestions.

Another thing that may help (in the absence of field testing) is any details of mattresses that you have slept on and liked in the past to give an idea of what you are most comfortable with.

FBM is not a problem for someone that is willing to "flip a coin" in terms of 50/50 odds of getting what you want. Sometimes the "gambler" in us makes the saving worth it :). They are more likely to be accurate with the poly than the latex IMO.

The information about the FBM HD 36 being 2.0 lbs/sq ft  came from here.

Phoenix

Phoenix,

I'm a side and back sleeper.  The girlfriend is strictly a side sleeper.  The spring mattress we have now is crap in my eyes because it feels like it has no support.  If I'm to kneel on the bed, my knees fall so far into it - the springs are much too weak.  As crazy as it sounds, I slept beautifully on the dorm mattresses in college.  I dont believe they had springs in them.

I'm guessing you might tell me I need to soften the setup for side sleeping..  Would adding another inch of soft be advised?

BTW, for the foams I'm going with the high quality versions: http://www.foamdistributing.com/products/hd36-hqM.html and http://www.foamdistributing.com/products/lux-hqM.html, both are labeled 2.8 pcf.

I'm just itching to order...! 

In terms of comfort, 1" soft over 3" of what could be called "medium on the border of firm" is bordering on a firm overall comfort layer but it is in thinner layers which makes it "act" softer. This may be OK more for you than your GF.

In general lighter people (like your girlfriend) prefer and need thinner and softer comfort layers because they don't sink in as far and heavier people need a little thicker and maybe a bit firmer because their definition and perception of "firm" is often firmer than someone who is lighter. Sometimes there is a problem with side sleeping that the shoulders don't sink in enough to a firmer layering and end up being "raised" in relation to the hips which can cause alignment issues or not sinking in enough which can lead to pressure issues. Men are "more likely" to have broader shoulders and have more "issues" there and women in general have broader hips and have more "issues" there. The shoulders come "into play" more in side sleeping and the hips/pelvis comes into play in all positions since in both men and women the hips and pelvis can sink in too far and causing "hammocking" which also puts the spine out of alignment in all 3 positions.

You like a firm mattress so your overall construction seems pretty good to me ... assuming you actually get what you order. If I was to change anything ... and bearing in mind that I have no actual feedback to go by so am relying on "averages" the only change I may make would be to make the 1" talalay 32 ILD a little softer (24-28) but they don't seem to have that available on any of their websites esxcept as a thicker layer inside their mattresses. May be worth a call to see.

Other than that ... it's nice to see how well thought out your mattress is and how carefully you are making choices that lead to the "best for the least". I really like that kind of thinking as I share it :)

Phoenix.

Totally makes sense... (I feel like I've learned a ton about this stuff in a very short time!)

If I go wit this setup and she's not comfortable and needs something softer, do you think something like the cuddlebed would work?

Unrelated, but would it be okay to have the latex+2 foams (8") in an encasement, and the base on my slats?  foambymail does a max of 8" for a case.

With latex it is very important to have a case around it as ultraviolet light and ozone can cause it to degrade and breakdown much faster. Poly not so much but I would probably tend to use a case that fit around all of it. I would also tend to use a case that was as "elastic" as possible as it will help with the feel and performance of the latex and a "less elastic" case may not work as well with a "firmer" comfort layer. If you want to sleep on wool or something else rather than directly on the latex, you could always add it as a mattress pad.

If foambymail can't make their terry "upgrade" cover in a 10" version (ask them when you talk to them), then I would consider getting one either at http://www.foamorder.com or at http://sleepez.com/mattresscomponents.htm. They may cost you a bit more but I believe would be worth it. In the end though if I had to leave a layer out for the sake of having a lower cost cover ... it would be a poly layer.

Phoenix

Given what I posted in the last (simultaneous) post, everything makes sense to me.

Congratulations ... and I really hope you will post here to let us know how things work out.

You are clearly anxious to "get sleeping" (laughing)

Phoenix

I think others in the past have thought that there was little difference in firmness between the soft and medium.   So, a bit of a crap shoot in trying to determine what it will really feel like.

My guess is that this setup will be on the firmer side.  It seems like that may be what you want.   If end up wanting it softer at the very top comfort layer, you may want to add a little memory foam or Latex International talalay. 

Thanks for the input, sandman.

Just so I'm prepared, would I be looking at 1" of soft LI talalay on top if it's too firm?  Obviously there are many variables, but I'd be curious if you'd think thats enough based on the setup.

Thanks

As Sandman mentioned ... using memory foam in the comfort layering and what you put on top will also make a difference and can be part of any "final adjustments".

Of course YMMV. Sandman in particular has a lot of personal experience with "thin layering" using different materials.

Phoenix

Anyway, you will probably find that one of you will be happy with the setup and one will think it is too soft or firm!   People that buy from Sleepez, flobeds, etc. often end up having 1/2 of the mattress setup different from the other half.

For a full size that is a bit harder to do, but you will have the option of cutting pieces down the middle to potentially customize each side.  That might work if you have the pieces in a cover tight enough to hold them together.   I am not totally crazy about the idea, because it can make the mattress softer in the middle.  With a king size that is not as much of an issue.  So hopefully you will be able to come up with something that is okay for both of you.

Even the 20 ILD latex is pretty supportive.  I would personally rate 32ILD and up ... all nine inches below your one inch... quite firm to "rock".

I have bought 20 ILD in both 1 inch and 2 inch from FBM, and found the 2 inch significantly denser and firmer than the one inch.

My current configuration:  1 inch 4 lb memory foam from overstock.com (find details and links by searching shovel99 and mattress surgery),

2 x one inch 20 ILD latex from FBM, 1 inch "super soft" poly foam from foamdistributing.com sister site to FBM (this is about 20 ILD.)

These 4 inches are on the springs of a Serta Perfect Sleeper, Auburn Firm, replacing the 2 one inch layers of very similar foam to the super soft (indistinguishable from it , actually) and one inch very similar to 1 inch of HD 36... and a fairly firm 3/4 inch top layer on the original mattress.

Though my stack is similar with exception of 1 firm layer, the feel is worlds apart.

My 170 lb (6 foot) does not sink into the 2 inches of 20 ILD + supersoft ( equivalent of 3 inches of 20 ILD) much at all.  For boney me, it takes the semi soft inch of memory foam to relieve pressure points.

I have lower back pain, and have learned that I need as firm as I can stand, but also sleep both on back and side, and that combination is very tricky.  I am working my way toward maximum 3-4 inches of soft on top of the firm springs.

Good luck and check back with your thoughts and lots of good folks here can help guide you.

Search shovel99 and mattress surgery and you can read some of my detailed observations.

I am 170 lb male,

Phoenix

So everything I ordered has been received and we've been sleeping on the setup for a few nights.  First let me say that I'm very pleased with the quality of everything I received from FBM/FD.  Granted, I'm not a latex mattress expert, but the components all seemed to be perfectly acceptable quality with few flaws.  That aside, the bed is firm, no doubt about it.  Surprisingly, the girlfriend is okay with it, but I think I need to sink in a bit more.  Today I woke up with a lower back pain and knew I had to make an adjustment for the sake of comfort.  In certain positions, i.e., on my back, I think my rear end is sinking well beyond the 1" soft layer and right into those medium layers.  Probably the "best" solution would be to replace a 1" medium with something softer, but I'm already over budget with this project.  I'm thinking of trying a mattress pad (cuddle bed, etc.) or egg crate.  Any suggestions as to if those will help here?

Thanks!

I am going to assume that your 20 ILD latex layer is actually mid 20's to low 30's (probably safer than assuming it is actually soft) . This may mean that your whole comfort layer is too firm.

When you are sleeping on your back and side ... have someone try to slide their hand under the gaps. This should not be possible (at least without real effort). Also have someone check to see if it looks like your spine is straight on your side and in it's natural "S" curve on your back. Check to make sure your shoulders are sinking in enough relative to your hips.

A convoluted topper may help (or a non convoluted softer layer) but it would need to be thick enough to allow for a good cradle (in combination with your "unknown" 1" layer and possibly what is under it) and if it is thick enough to do this then the layers underneath could "turn into" part of your support layers and they may not be firm enough for this (even though they may be too firm for a comfort layer). If you do this you may need to remove some of the latex under it (either 1" or 2" depending on the topper) to get closer to the firmer foam for support and alignment. A cuddlebed will not help form a cradle even though it feels soft and as it compresses may actually make things worse in some cases.

Overall I would be very careful what you do next without first validating what is happening.

Phoenix