| OK, I'm calling on all you experts! Like most people considering the big switch to a latex mattress I've done tons of reading and research but still am not sure what we need. After reading through this forum (twice) I almost feel like maybe I'd like Dunlop better than Talalay, but I don't see a whole lot of discussion about Dunlop. I like a very firm mattress with very little "give". But, as a side sleeper I know I need some amount of softness on top. I hate conventional pillowtops. My weight is around 140 and my husbands around 240. I have back issues - low back pain, degenerative disk problems, lots of trigger points, yada, yada..... I have seen a couple of people say there's a big difference in the feel of Dunlop and they prefer it. So, is anybody still buying Dunlop or should I assume most of these posts are all Talalay. And does Dunlop only come in all natural or is there some blended? Tnanks for any help you can give me! |
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One of the biggest reasons I dislike latex is the constant confusion, so to clear the air........ Dunlop = The older process of making latex that used to be (up until about 4-5 years ago) sometimes referred to as natural if the contents were found to be at least 71% natural or called standard if they were not. None of it is or was 100% natural outside of marketing. It feels like pound cake but ILD ratings are similar. First created by the Dunlop company, it is now made all over by almost every latex manufacturer and comes in various degrees of quality. Some Dunlop mattresses can last 40+ years. Talalay = Standard Talalay is the newer process of making latex, introduced by Latex International who called it Talatech. It feels like angel food cake and is made from a mix of 70% artificial Talalay and 30% natural Talalay. The use of the word Talalay to describe the mix, instead of rubber, is on purpose as it's actually a mix of processed mixes. This means the actual amount of artificial ingredients may be higher. It has a good track record of both longevity and comfort. Dunlopillo = A British company that has long been the major competitor to Latex International that also markets a mattress with the same name. They were recently merged in to a huge conglomerate, but still market products under the Dunlopillo name. They are often confused with Dunlop, but are not the same. Dunlopillo makes a 60% artificial and 40% natural Talalay mix that is very popular in Europe and was sold here by the Canadian company Natura (no they were not all natural). They have recently created a "Natural Talalay" to compete against L.I.'s "Natural Talalay" but we will get to that in a moment. Most folks believe Dunlopillo to be comparable to L.I. in terms of quality. Natural Talalay = A recent creation by both L.I. and Dunlopillo that supposedly duplicates the Talalay process with a majority of "Natural" ingredients. The actual amount of natural and artificial ingredients is unknown as nether company will release that information nor submit to 3rd party testing (under current law they don't have to and they are not subject to the FDA), however the 71% natural standard is still the only one in place, so it's safe to assume they are somewhere between 71% and 96% natural. 100% natural latex does not exist outside of marketing and none have been independently certified to actually be 100% natural. Some other world countries are also selling lesser quality versions of this latex and calling them natural. Organic Latex = IMO Pure marketing garbage. The kind of fertilizer used on rubber tree plants has absolutely no bearing in the formation of latex. Latex is and always will be an artificial product. Calling latex all natural/organic just because it uses rubber tree sap and zinc is like calling plastic organic/natural because it uses decayed dinosaur juice. Don't believe the hype. Natura = Natura is a quality Canadian mattress company that markets several latex mattresses. Until recently they used Dunlopillo, but they seem to have branched out to other foams as well. The bottom line = IMO all latexes are made with artificial processes with some artificial ingredients. Purchase based on what is comfortable to you. If longevity is important then the only ones that have been around long enough to prove themselves are the standard Dunlop and Talalay latexes. Best wishes to you and your search. |
| That was a very interesting posting about latex, thank you! Why do you think Dunlopillo warranty is 5 years, and Latex International is 15 or 20 years? Couldn't figure that out, but I could be confusing the Dunlop with Dunlopillo? It can be pretty confusing for us consumers. |
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Latex International and Dunlopillo don't normally sell direct to customers. L.I. has made an exception for some of its pillows in the past, but that is not the rule. So warrantees typically come from the distributers or the manufactures and can vary. As customers, we don't have the inside scoop on what is being offered to the manufactures. So many companies are making latex now it is easy to get confused. Dunlop does not equal Dunlopillo even though Dunlopillo may make a Dunlop latex. I should clarify what I said above about natural Talalay before the latex fans jump all over me. Natural Talalay, along with Artificial Talalay, have been around for a long time. Standard Talalay is a mix of Natural Talalay and Artificial Talalay. However, when Talalay was first introduced, the Artificial Talalay (although too expensive) was considered the superior product because the Natural Talalay did not hold up. Natural Talalay was also not 100% pure, even then. It has only been recently that the technique for making Natural Talalay has evolved into a marketable product. I do not have a problem with the existence of Natural Talalay. My issue is that Natural Talalay is not 100% Pure Natural. So 100% "Natural Talalay" does not equal "100% Natural" Talalay, yet they are marketed the same.
Best Wishes |
I ordered a Dunlop latex mattress years ago. It was like sleeping on a bag of wet cement. It actually felt like it was pushing back--with a baseball bat . I have since gone with Talalay latex. In fact I just ordered a new bed from Flobeds. I much prefer Talalay to Dunlop. BTW, Dunlopillo, as someone mentioned, is Talalay method, not Dunlop. |
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Mimi, I never slept on a Dunlap Mattress but I tried a Dunlap topper that I did not like since since it also felt like it was pushing back and was too firm and was just not a comfortable topper at about a 28 ILD. Thanks Gizmodo for letting me know that you did not like the Dunlap Feel. I really feel each of our backs are different and we all have our preferences but we can help each other out by sharing the knowledge we have gained. I now have a soft 1" Talalay Latex Topper over my three cores of Talalay Latex. I have 5 herniated disks in my back from a car accident and as long as my latex cores are very firm with a little cushion on top, I am sleeping comfortable. Again I have no idea what a Dunalp Latex bed feels like with a Talalay Latex topper since I never tried this and it may be nice. For now, I really liked the exchange policy at FloBeds and liked that I was able to take my time in finding out what combination of latex cores was best for my back situation. I also like my Pine Slat Box with the 10" legs despite not liking the pine smell at first that took over a week to go away for me. I was not allergic to the pine smell but I just do not like to have any smells in my bedroom. Dave had been so accomodating to me with exhanging the legs a few times until I got the height I wanted and in exchanging toppers as well as latex cores. |
| Thanks so much for your help. That does give me a better feeling about the Talalay and I feel sure that's the route I'll go when I'm ready. Probably blended I guess. I want to see what's available locally to "test drive" before ordering. I've only tried one out, and that was at Macy's. Frankly, with the thick mattress casing I couldn't really tell it felt any difference than a conventional mattress. Maybe it's different after laying on it several hours.... |
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Although there definitely are Dunlop supporters here too. I know when I called SleepEZ and told them what I wanted they recommended Dunlop (I haven't purchased anything yet though). For more pro-Dunlop discussion, look for thread labeled SleepEZ 8500 - Dunlop or Talalay Blended 65/35?
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From all my readings about Dunlap versus Talalay process methods and from my experience with that one Dunlap topper ( I have not experienced any Dunlap latex cores that may be great for bottom support), it seems that the Talalay Process cleans out the latex better and produces more consistent pin holes that produce more consistent ILD's throught the latex core and that the firmer Talalay Latex has a very long life. Latex International says that Talalay Latex lasts longer than Dunlap Latex but Latex International manufactures Talalay Latex. :) I have selected posts from various sites below to help others make the decision. I am happy with the Talalay Latex cores I have from FloBeds that buys them from Latex International (but my topper is from Brylane Homes since I wanted a 1" topper that was soft made with the Talalay Processing.... Dave did sent me three toppers but they were all too thick since I did not realize then that I wanted a 1" topper) as long as it is a 36 ILD and above since I like firm beds. I can not sleep directly on a 44 ILD Talalay latex core since it is just too firm it makes a great base underneath my 1" soft Talalay Latex topper over my 39 ILD Talalay Latex core over a 36 ILD latex core over the 46 ILD latex core over a firm pine slat base for firm support. I have chemical allergies and am not having any problems with my Talalay Latex bed (maybe if I had Dunlap Latex from a reputable company in the cores I would have no problems either.... who knows since I only had experience with that topper that felt like it has no give and was uncomfortable for me and did not look as clean to me) once aired out the Talalay Latex cores for a few days and put them in the zippered cover, I have not had any allergy problems so the latex must be cleaned very well. I really feel that a 44 and 46 ILD Talalay Latex must be as firm as a Dunalap Latex core but have a little bit more resilience so their is less pressure points but most people have a topper over this so the difference probably does not matter much. Also as SleepEz says that the newer equipment used to process Dunlap Latex from a reputable company make the higher density latex very similar. But again since I have Talalay Latex and did not like the feel of that Dunlap Topper, I could sse the quality difference. But maybe it was just that particular Dunlap Topper? I know others have Dunalap Mattresses and love them. I just feel that you need to make sure whichever process your latex is if you buy a latex mattress, it is from a reputable company. ------------------------------------------------------------ Look for "Talalay" latex—a type of processing that results in more resilience and durability. -------------------------------------------------- What is Dunlap Latex? Dunlop latex is similar to Talalay Latex in that it uses both natural and synthetic latex in the compound. In fact, Dunlop process latex is the same as Talalay process latex, except that is simply pored into the mold the same way natural latex is and does not go through the vacuum or the freezing process that Talalay latex does. Because of this, Dunlop latex is not as consistent in feel and support as Talalay latex, nor can it be made to exacting firmness levels as Talalay can. ------------------------------------------- http://www.sleepez.com/faq.htm Are there different qualities of latex? (from the SleepEZ site) The quality of latex is dictated by two main factors (1.)the manufacturing process and (2.)the blend of natural and synthetic latex . Although latex has been the premium cushioning material for 60 years it was improved when we began to manufacture synthetic latex and blend it with natural latex. It enabled us to deliver a wider range of firmness and increase the life of the product. The two different manufacturing processes are the Talalay Process and the Dunlop Process. Traditionally the Talalay process, although more costly, has delivered a higher quality with regard to durability and a wider range of firmnesses. But, technology has narrowed that advantage to where any difference between the two processes is marginal at best. The major benefit of the Talalay process is in the softer firmness. The combination of natural more elastic latex with synthetic latex, which has a stronger cell structure, creates a springier latex in the soft firmness. Thus, it has delivered the longest lasting consistent comfort level, especially in the softer firmness. The mattress cores are produced in individual molds, and undergo vacuum, freezing, heating, and with an extensive washing process to eliminate any proteins in the natural portion. With this process we can produce gentle soft latex mattress cores and latex pillows that will still retain long lasting comfort and durability. The Dunlop process has less steps in the production chain, is also produced in molds as well as open conveyers, does not have the vacuum and freezing steps and produces latex with a denser, less springier feel. Again let me say that technology in the past few years has all but erased that difference. Still it is safe to say that the Talalay process produces a noticeable difference in the softer firmness but in the medium, firm and extra firm the two process are virtually the same in feel. ------------------------------------------------
---------------------------- Dunlop or Talalay Latex Mattress?
There’s a lot of confusion about what Dunlop and Talalay mean. They are neither types of latex nor types of rubber trees, but types of processing. Dunlop is a process that’s been around since 1929 and involves the traditional manufacturing method. Talalay is the name of a newer process. Here’s how they differ. DunlopWhen Dunlop latex is made, the serum is frothed in a centrifuge, poured into a mold, covered and baked at a low temperature. The natural sediments in the latex settle to the bottom of the mold, which yields a layer that is slightly firmer on the bottom side. TalalayIn the Talalay process, after the latex is poured, the mold is sealed and air is vacuumed out. Then the mold is flash-frozen to stabilize the material. This produces a more consistent cell structure, as some of the weaker air bubbles are vacuumed out. Because of the added steps, Talalay latex is more expensive than Dunlop. All Talalay pieces wider than 40" have glue seams. Simalfa is a safe, water based glue. Which is better?
Having worked with both Dunlop and Talalay latex, we can say with confidence that neither is superior to the other. What matters more is how it is handled out of the mold, how it is packaged, shipped, and ultimately, what is in the end product. ----------------------------------------- Manufacturing Talalay Latex Steps with pictures http://www.latexdirect.com:80/manufacturing.htm ---------------------------------------------- Talatech Latex provides more pressure relief than Dunaalp Latex & is more consistent with the ILD throughout the latex core & more consistent cell structure http://www.latexinternational.com/pdf/Latex%20Intl%20Step%20Up.pdf |
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Lynn Thanks for the informative post. There is so much info out on the web its really hard to know who or what you can trust. But I did want to note one thing about the SleepEZ post. He is clearly comparing natural Dunlop to synthetic Talalay (he says "The major benefit of the Talalay process is in the softer firmness. The combination of natural more elastic latex with synthetic latex..." I am not sure if/how this changes if you compare to natural Talalay. Also, this FAQ still says "We use only Talalay latex for all our mattresses and mattress toppers." Since thats not true anymore, I think its safe to say that this FAQ is at least a bit stale, so some of their opinions might have changed. Also, I wanted to point out at least one source that seems clearly pro-Dunlop, because most of the ones you pointed to seemed to be either neutral or pro-Talalay. This is from the Habitat Furnishing blog, June 19, 2007. I have no idea if this site can be trusted (although I did note that they do sell both types of latex, so that seems like a good sign). The reason I picked this quote is that he hits on a lot of points that, if true, would impact my upcoming decision... "When I compare our Dunlop mattresses side by side with a Talalay bed, to me it so obvious, the main observation being that you tend to sink more in the Talalay material, vs. the Dunlop Natural material, which keeps you suspended if you will, on top of the mattress. Side sleepers especially seem to respond better to the Dunlop method since when you apply a lot of weight to the latex in a limited area (imagine side sleeping being like a knife on edge, vs. a belly or back sleeper, where the weight is more evenly distributed), the pressure point reduction and weight distributing qualities of the latex being clearly superior. You don’t bottom out on it, and you can easily turn from side to side effortlessly. This is important when you consider that a common complaint of memory foam users, and a few Talalay process mattress owners I have spoken with, say that the sinking effects of this materials cause you to feel like your stuck in a rut, and you can actually wake up as your body fights to wrestle its way out of the sinkhole in your bed." I don't mean to seem argumentative or anything, I suspect the differences aren't really that great. I just wish this was all a little clearer so I could decide already (I am SICK of my stupid Tempurpedic mattress)... Steve This message was modified May 26, 2008 by st3v3k4hn
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Steve, No argument from me. I just wanted to share about both processing methods so you and others can know facts. My Talalay latex mattress never bottoms out since I only used ILD that were very firm and super firm with only a thin cushion topper over it. I have a feeling if I had a Talalay latex topper over firm Dunlap latex cores, it would feel very similar but I like the fact that Talalay Latex is supposed to be more uniform throughout the cores. Even my friend who is very heavy feels my bed is suportive and comfortable and he sleeps on a very firm conventional bed at home with no pillow top. I am just feeling you are basing your opinions on what others say and not what you know so you really need to maybe ask for a sample of the Dunalp Latex in a 44 ILD versus the Talalay Latex in a 44 ILD and do the same with a 36 ILD and a 32 ILD and then just make a decision since I am sure either process latex you get will be wonderful compared with a hot chemical memory foam bed (sorry for those not allergic that love these beds since I know of people that adore memory foam but I am allergic to it). Also make sure you get split cores for more combinations. This message was modified May 26, 2008 by Lynn2006
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