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I've been meaning to order a memory foam mattress for several years as I've never had a quality bed, progressing from a cheap twin mattress for 16 years to a couch, then a futon, back to an airmattress and for the last 3 years a family hand me down futon; now 29, 5'8" 145lbs, I owe myself a good nights rest after all of that.
Finally, on Nov. 17/2011, I ordered what I thought would be the perfect mattress after hours of reading based on what others are finding comfortable. I called Foam by Mail and spoke with Connie. She was great in all aspects in dealing with FBM via e-mail or phone, providing multiple quotes based on sudden changes and additional items. In the end I decided on the follow:
3" 5LB ViscoMAX memory foam (top layer) 1" Soft 20 ILD Talalay Latex 5" HD36-HQ(High Quality) medium density base layer including terrycloth cover.
I did order a 2" 5lb memory foam topper for my parents also. I received 3 packages in total, my latex topper was bundled with theirs. They arrived exactly as expected based on other photos posted with FBM orders but I wouldn't call them beat up, it's how it was packaged. No complaints there, everything was in perfect condition. The foam arrives tied up with nylon/polyester rope then placed in a large bag, air removed, tired and wrapped multiple times with packaging film which is then wound and tied around the outside. I was wary at first that the string/rope would leave permanent marks in the foam considering how much it was compressed for 10 days during shipping but as soon as everything was opened they were gone. I'm highly impressed with the quality of foam I received; I see no irregularities and all measurements are nearly exact except with a 9.25" height vs 9" - I won't complain. The latex is certainly softer than I had thought it would be so I should have ordered a 2" layer instead of 1". Regarding the 5lb memory foam, it was a dense lump of what felt like rubberized foam that I had to peel apart. It definitely didn't want to put on a show by its own. Smell, nothing life altering. Yeah, it smelled like new foam off gasing but it certainly wasn't as strong or lingering as I expected it would be.
Unwrapped for several minutes at this point.
Tearing the foam apart.
Setup in the livingroom to let it air out for a few hours before moving it to the bedroom.
So, where's the problem? Well, I've never suffered such intense back pain in my life from simply sleeping and I've slept on a cement floor once with just a blanket. I know a lot of people comment that their memory foam mattress felt firm at first but now it's great or it just feels firm in general based on a similar setup. The second night was a little better but I'm dealing with all day lower and upper back pain between my shoulder blades. My futon was killing me but not this bad. Even with 9" I can feel close to bottoming out sitting up. My first thought is that everything was simply too soft providing no support. 3" of 5lb memory foam seemed like a lot after all and most say that 4" is overkill causing some people back pain. I find my hips and shoulders sink down a lot causing my back to arch which is the cause to the pain. I doubt this due to a correction to my posture for sleeping on such bad beds before but rather compressing the discs in my back. Here we are Day 3 and I've decided to do a little mattress surgery. I unzipped the terry cover and mattress encasement, peeled back the memory foam and latex layer just to see how it feels lying on the base layer. It's certainly firm with mild compression. My back arches a lot and it's painful from the other 2 nights sleep. Rolling out the latex layer provides light cushioning but does very little in resolving the pain or providing support to my back as it's too thin. With the memory foam back in place it offers mild support to my lower back as I can only assume I've bottomed out to the top of the base layer.
Possibly solution! I doubled up the memory foam to 6" and I would have to say it's acceptably comfortable. My lower back feels better supported, not perfect, and I'm compressing the whole 6" layer at my hips. I tried 2 and 4" of latex only with little benefit. 2" and 4" of latex with 6" of memory foam didn't feel much different than just the 6" ontop of the 5" based and 1" latex. I just switched the latex layer to the top, trying both 1" and 2" and I must say it's probably the best combination yet. I'm glad when I placed my order for the FBM 5lb Queen mattress that I was able to have the layers not glued together so I could try different combinations. I thought a latex middle layer would have worked best, perhaps not... we shall see. Also, for anyone looking to place an order with FBM/FoamFactory it's cheaper to get the precut mattresses unglued rather than ordering a precut topper + custom cut foam base in 5" if you want the ability to move things around, you just need to request for unglued when ordering. As for the LUX Foam-HQ, since I was set on using 3" of it and 3" of HD36-HQ for a base, I see no purpose for it rather than adding height or perhaps a solid core over slats or additional cushioning from bottoming out for those heavier. If I lay flat on my back my shoulders and/or hips barely compress into the HD36-HQ.
For now I'm going to zip everything back together and try it for round 3. Hopefully tonight will be better. If not I may order a 2" layer of Super Soft Foam or source out something locally. The other option is a 2-4" 4lb memory foam topper from Costco to place under the latex. In the mean time I'll report back and test out a few innerspring mattresses and Tempur-Pedic at Sears again to see how it compares.
-Greg This message was modified Dec 3, 2011 by Greg
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Rusty, first off I love the name. I can picture Dale saying it just reading it, lol.
To help in your purchase, as I tested out last night, I don't think anything firmer than HD36-HQ is needed unless you need a 1-3" subbase layer for extra height or when sitting up so you don't bottom out to the mattress support or subframe. Lying down on just 5" of HD36-HQ it barely compressed at my hips or shoulders, maybe 1/2-1" deflection; it provides no back support by itself. I can't say if this would work for you but I'd probably go with a 5" HD36-HQ base, 3" 20ILD latex topper, 3" 4-5lb memory foam. The latex, while soft, doesn't realy compress enough when I folded it up to 4" to give proper back support in my opinion so a memory foam layer may work well in conjunction. Otherwise, a 5" base, 3" latex, 1-2" 4-5lb memory foam and a good quality thick mattress pad may also help.
Curvymama, I put the 1" 20ILD latex as the topper last night and while it felt more comfortable at first I still woke up with mild back pain although not as bad as the first 2 nights. I would agree on your train of thought that yes the latex actually does prevent you from sinking into the memory foam as far as it displaces the weight load. Writing this now in bed I feel that the latex topper has compressed the memory foam more uniformly but I'm lacking the contour support needed in my lower back and the whole mattress feels a lot firmer with no memory foam compressing directly underneath. When rocking between pushing my hips or shoulders into the foam it feels like I'm on a firm mattress. Even walking on it, in the current setup with the latex on top, with the mattress encasement, terrycloth cover and bedsheet it feels firm and is pushing back against me much like an innerspring bed. While HD36-HQ foam is great as a seat cushion when the weight load is centralized to one area, to spread that out over your whole body it does little to nothing for comfort. In my own mind, prior to ordering, I felt the HD36 foam would deflect enough to cradle my body or 'catch you' like you said. The latex would be used as an extra support/cushion layer with the memory foam contouring providing the absolute comfort; unfortunately this wasn't the case as the HD36 is too firm. So, reducing the thickness of the memory foam wouldn't actually provide any benefit if anything it would make things worse. If a 30 or 25 IFD HQ foam was offered that would probably work well allowing the body to sink in more.
I'm going to sleep on it and consider my options but I think what may work best now is to purchase another 2-4" of memory foam to place over the latex. Based on how it feels now the latex is acting as a foam layer in any non-pillow top innerspring mattress distributing the load over the 3" 5lb memory foam. The result is a compression of the memory foam much like a continous coil or perhaps closer to a pocket coil system but without the quick response. Basically, the memory foam is the spring layer right now. From most any review of adding 1" or thicker memory foam topper on a firm or failing mattress it generally fixes the problems resulting in less or eliminated pain. I'll most likely purchase a 4lb Body Therapy memory foam topper, made in the USA, from Costco either in a 3" or 4" as a comfort top layer. Shipping from FBM to Canada via FedEx set me back $200, substantially more than the FREE for $75 purchases or more that any contiguous US consumer can benefit from. Like everyone on the quest for the perfect mattress, it's either hit or miss and experimental. What works for me may not work for someone else but I'll gladly continue to share my experience and answer questions.
-Greg This message was modified Dec 3, 2011 by Greg
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I think you're assumption about using less memory foam, curvymama, may prove correct. I removed the latex top layer last night as the bed felt a bit too firm the last few days and I wanted to see how the 5lb memory foam felt on the base layer only. The lower and upper back pain was certainly much worse as my hips are sinking in deep causing my back to arch. My father said the same thing when he put his 2" 5lb topper on their old 1" memory foam topper, although not as bad. I'm now left confused as to how I should fix this. 5lb memory foam in 3" thickness is definitely not working, at least for my weight, and 2" may have been the better option so I bottom out into the 5" base or with the latex over the base layer first. After e-mailing FBM they advised some find the 5lb too dense/hard and use a 4lb layer to make it softer, similar in how the Tempur-pedic Cloud is designed.
Other options: 2-4" 4lb memory foam 2-4" 4lb memory foam |
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Were you ever able to find a solution for yourself? This message was modified Jan 19, 2012 by Ser_renely
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Unfortunately, no.
I did order a 2" Body Therapy 4lb Memory Foam topper from Costco after thinking that would resolve the problem and give me more layering options. I was surprised to find out that the topper is indeed Aerus 4lb memory foam made by FXi as per the attached corner label with manufacturing date Oct 2011 so at least it's high quality. The only issue is that one edge, which was the center core of the roll, never fully expanded.
2" 4lb memory foam 3" 5lb memory foam 1" latex 5" HD36-HQ The first few nights were acceptable; I'd fall asleep and wake up in the same position feeling relatively rested with few aches and pains. After several days I developed intense mid-to-upper back pain although my lower back pain is gone. I'd be able to fall asleep again if I rolled on my side but even that became uncomfortable. Stomach sleeping is possible but only without a pillow. Two days ago I woke up with severe pain and possible separation between my shoulder blades as I developed a popping in my back/spine if rolling my shoulders forward and back. I'm not experiencing any of the body hugging, contouring support you'd expect from memory foam. Either a result of too deep of a memory foam layer for my weight or that the terry cover, mattress encasement and bed sheet seem to have spread the weight load creating a depression/rut rounding my shoulders and back. I've resorted to sleeping on top of the blankets and thick comforter for a few nights to make necessary sleeping acceptable. I'm about to take things apart and remove the 3" 5lb memory foam, see how the 2" memory foam and latex work out again now that I'm sleeping on a proper bed frame. If no luck I'll pull the latex and as much as I hate to take off the mattress encasement. Hopefully I can find a combination that works from what I've spent thus far. This message was modified Jan 22, 2012 by Greg
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Wow I hope you can find a solution. I will say that seems like a lot of memory foam. I have a 3" 4lb aeurus topper and it gives me all sorts of issues in my hips, but it feels so good to be on. I have to take if off for a month or two at a time.
Let me ask you how firm is the hd36? I was thinking of putting my topper on top of some of that as my other bed is far to soft with the topper. I am going to make a poor mans version of what I got from this web site. which is what I felt I needed all the time...we will see. Have you tried this site and see what they come up with for you? try and replicate that? |
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So, last night with the 2" 4lb Aerus + 1" soft latex was no improvement. I was able to fall asleep quickly after turning over for a few more hours at a time to get through it. I unzipped everything again and removed the memory foam so I'm left with just the latex and 5" HD36-HQ for tonight. I removed the mattress encasement for now so I can make changes much easier. I'll check back and post an update. I can't really say how firm the HD36 is as I have no scale for reference. I can easily depress my hand into yet it takes substantial force to bottom it out using my fist as will walking on it or sitting up. It's a high resilient foam so it springs back instantly. If tonight's setup works out I may order a few inches of LUX-HQ to give the mattress a little more height. I did just try the mattress body profiler, it pretty much zoned the mattress to what I feel I should do now. Their site is very vague on materials and construction unfortunately. That being said, I'd rather buy a comfortable innerspring mattress rather than order any more expensive foam due to shipping/duties from the US to experiment finding the perfect sleep. I only went this route as I wanted a mattress that would last without fear of saggy springs and deteriorated foam within a few short years. |
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Greg wrote:
So, last night with the 2" 4lb Aerus + 1" soft latex was no improvement. I was able to fall asleep quickly after turning over for a few more hours at a time to get through it. I unzipped everything again and removed the memory foam so I'm left with just the latex and 5" HD36-HQ for tonight. I removed the mattress encasement for now so I can make changes much easier. I'll check back and post an update. I can't really say how firm the HD36 is as I have no scale for reference. I can easily depress my hand into yet it takes substantial force to bottom it out using my fist as will walking on it or sitting up. It's a high resilient foam so it springs back instantly. If tonight's setup works out I may order a few inches of LUX-HQ to give the mattress a little more height. I did just try the mattress body profiler, it pretty much zoned the mattress to what I feel I should do now. Their site is very vague on materials and construction unfortunately. That being said, I'd rather buy a comfortable innerspring mattress rather than order any more expensive foam due to shipping/duties from the US to experiment finding the perfect sleep. I only went this route as I wanted a mattress that would last without fear of saggy springs and deteriorated foam within a few short years. Bottoming out or not, I know even 36 is too soft a core for me, but I weigh a lot more too- what happens when you're directly on that 5" of urethane? Stay pretty much in a flat line on the top of it? That falling asleep easily then waking up in pain in the same position is the worst, with too soft a setup. |
| Jason, how tall and much do you weigh? |
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6'2" 225lbs. I used to be able to sleep on anything, too soft or too hard didn't matter, but something happened between my 20's & 30's so that I now have to be lying flat as a board to avoid waking up with back pain. Small amount of memory foam or latex on springs works, but if it involves much more than a couple of inches of any type of foam it has to be near 50ild or else while I can get to sleep fine on it, i wake up in pain later. I will always err on the side of too firm. This message was modified Jan 25, 2012 by JasonRatky
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I'm pretty much flat line, perhaps 1" deflection at the shoulders, hips and head as best as I can tell. The 1" latex on top of the 5" HD36-HQ didn't fair much better than any other setup thus far. I'm still waking up multiple times with mid/upper back pain. To see if in fact the 5" base is the issue I've removed it for tonight layering the latex at the bottom over the plywood base topped with the 2" 4lb memory foam first then the 3" 5lb memory foam. The reason I didn't put the 4lb foam on top is that it feels a fair bit firmer(12 ILD/IFD) than the 5lb(15 ILD/IFD) despite the actual numbers. This message was modified Jan 25, 2012 by Greg
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