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Just starting my research. I understand Talalay & Dunlop. I understand Synthetic & Natural (or Organic?)
but... From http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/guide/latex-foam.html: Types of Latex Talalay latex: is the process by which latex is made. It can be either natural, synthetic or a blend of the two. The difference is that natural latex has a lot of impurities in it which is only natural, so it breaks down much sooner than the mix. Synthetic vs. Natural latex ... The reason some companies combine the two is so that their product can offer optimal performance. From http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/guide/polyurethane-foam-mattress-101.html Polyurethane Foam Mattress 101 ...A mattress which contains properly used polyurethane foam can provide a comfortable surface with all three of these properties. ...Mattresses perform better based on three factors: durability, comfort, and support. Foam also offers the benefits of being noiseless, dustless, and resisting crumbling and matting. Polyurethane foam does not aggravate the majority of allergies and lacks a residual odor. It also has an open cell structure that lets the material breathe and reduces the chance of mold and mildew infestation. From http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/guide/latex-mattress-101.html: Natural latex is said to sleep "cooler" than synthetic latexes While Talalay process foams are made from natural rubber, they may not be organic or completely natural, as often advertised. This is because some curing agents are also required in the process, and liquid rubber is often stabilized with ammonia. Depending on the curing agent, the rubber will not be completely natural. However, the product is a great deal more natural than many completely artifical foams. from 100% Natural Latex/All Natural Latex/Organic Latex is a blend of mostly natural Latex. It's more expensive because it requires more harvested natural Latex and is more troublesome to process. Being mostly natural Latex, its processing into Latex foam rubber is made more difficult by the exclusion of synthetic Latex, and likewise, its Latex foam rubber does not inherit the desireable characteristics of synthetic Latex: more consistent, more resilient, wider firmness range, less prone to body set, more durable, less expensive, and perhaps other arguable traits From http://sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-reviews-latex.html: In addition, all-natural latex appears to perform somewhat better than the blended variety in regard to longevity and resistance to compression / development of body impressions. Foam-over-latex mattresses, however, tend to have low owner satisfaction (60%) mainly because their foam tops tends to compress, wear unevenly and create body impressions.
Thoughts??? This message was modified Apr 26, 2012 by a moderator
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Thanks for the feedback, corban. There is some devil's advocate here fishing for real world experience such as yours. PLB is worth referencing since they are LI's foray into the Latex mattress enduser market space. One can presume they want to get it right from source to finish. And then charge top dollar... which is fine by me considering their depth. For those of us wanting to build our own for whatever reasons, the PLB model is a likely point of reference until proven otherwise. One note... I read that they initially use a closed-cell foam base layer for handling purposes during manufacturing, but no longer. Latex mattress purists might have scoffed at that. I envy your bought it, got it, like it, done approach! But you did your homework. GK |
Is 100% natural / organic Talalay Latex a beter choice for overall durability?
For durability blended is going to be better for the long term. This is why most latex companies, including LI give blended mattresses longer waranties. It's typically because 100% natural has much more natural fiber in it, and so wears down quicker than the blended mattress. As for the pressure relief, I would say they are both pretty close, but from what I have read, blended is "less likely to take a body impression" ... aka break down. As for temperature control and motion isolatoin. I think it would be to hard tell the differnce if doing a blind test on either mattress. Once you knew what you were looking for you might find some differences between the two and at that point, I would go with the one you liked best. As for which is more pressure relieving??? I would guess either one is going to be good. At this point the differences shouldn't be night and day. I think I read somewhere that blended is like 14K gold, while 100 Natural is like 24K gold. Both are really nice to have around your neck, but one is worth more, while the other is more durable. But both are really nice to look at! ;-) If the difference is a couple hundered dollars (give or take) and you like the idea of being more green, go for the 100% all natural. If the cost difference is much bigger than what you are comfortable with, then go blended and I bet you will be just as happy. Not sure if this helps at all, but good luck! I hope you find something. corban This message was modified Apr 26, 2012 by a moderator
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Call me skeptical but again I look for real world examples of how blended latex is somehow more durable than natural rubber. All I am saying is that comparing the two different materials natural rubber should be more durable in almost all circumstances, I have yet to see a logical scientific explanation of how blended somehow could be more durable, I do understand that composite materials often times get the benefit of both source materials, but this is not always universally true. And of all the hundreds of latex matts our company has sold we have had few problems but the only ones we ever had were with blended talalay latex from latex international and dunlopillo. Considering people in Europe have been using 100% natural rubber core beds for a long time and that we know how ridiculously durable some of these beds are, even just arguing that blended is even AS durable as natural rubber would be a benefit. If its twice as durable and most natural rubber mattresses last around 20 years or longer, than they should consider putting a 40 year warranty on the mattress given that many brands give 20 year warranty on 100% natural rubber. Serta iComfort has a 25 year warranty and I don't think they would realistically last even half as long as that. Vi-Spring mattresses have a lifetime warranty, they might be durable but probably won't last as long as a latex mattress. Warranties to me mean less than nothing. |
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budgy wrote: Call me skeptical but again I look for real world examples of how blended latex is somehow more durable than natural rubber. All I am saying is that comparing the two different materials natural rubber should be more durable in almost all circumstances, I have yet to see a logical scientific explanation of how blended somehow could be more durable, I do understand that composite materials often times get the benefit of both source materials, but this is not always universally true. And of all the hundreds of latex matts our company has sold we have had few problems but the only ones we ever had were with blended talalay latex from latex international and dunlopillo. Considering people in Europe have been using 100% natural rubber core beds for a long time and that we know how ridiculously durable some of these beds are, even just arguing that blended is even AS durable as natural rubber would be a benefit. If its twice as durable and most natural rubber mattresses last around 20 years or longer, than they should consider putting a 40 year warranty on the mattress given that many brands give 20 year warranty on 100% natural rubber.
Serta iComfort has a 25 year warranty and I don't think they would realistically last even half as long as that. Vi-Spring mattresses have a lifetime warranty, they might be durable but probably won't last as long as a latex mattress. Warranties to me mean less than nothing. As for the Serta iComfort. It does have a 25 year warranty which after 15 years is prorated. Meaning you have to pay to get back a new bed, and as you get closer and closer to that 25 yeara, you have to basically pay for a new bed. And which of those many latex brands offer full non-pro-rated 20 year warranties? PureLatexBliss is one of the few that offers a full 10 years non-pro-rated and 20 year non-pro-rated warranty on both the 100% natural and blended mattresses. I am sure a few more good companies do the same, I am just not aware of any that support a full 20 non-pro-rated warranty on 100% natural. (I only say this as a lack of my searching.) One reason you haven't seen a lot of good examples here in (I asume you mean in the US) is that Latex has just really started to catch on, and while yes it has been around forever it's only started recently to get the praise that it deserves. I think that shows in how all the majore S brands now are carrying some form of Latex mattress. (poory I might add.) Yet none of them are doing it better that the few all ture latex mattress companies. I don't think anyone is saying that most 100% natural latex mattresses won't last over 20+ years, just that most companies don't want to support a warranty for that long. My guess is more of these mattress will in fact last a long time. Some will get indentations, and other might sag just a bit, but they most likely will be around for a long, long time. I like the fact that I don't have to worry for the next 20 years, and if I do get any sag over 3/4 inch in that 20 years, I get a new mattress! Here is a fun video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfQqDGJ1gI cheers corban
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Its likely unreasonabe for me to ask, but in that video you just posted that was a 50 year old natural dunlop mattress. I just think it is ridiculous for companies (and misleading) like LI to claim that their blended talalay latex is TWICE as durable as the mattress you saw in that video. I have blended LI latex pillows that after one year are already showing major signs of oxidization and breakdown. And raw rubber samples that are kept in our showroom that get exposed to UV the blended ones get dry and crumbly in a few months. Our natural rubber samples have never yet gotten to that point of degradation. I realize that my sampling size compared to the whole industry is small, but it seems to be repeatable and confirmable. When we look at other latex manufacturers around the globe like Latex Co Germany, Radium, COCO-MAT (Europeans), and Latex Green, Coco Latex, (Asians). They all claim the complete opposite that LI does. They are the oddity in claiming that blended latex is superior. Some European suppliers add in a small amount of SBR to help with the consistency of the product because they are far from the source. Think about all the companies you see here talking about how amazing blended talalay is, they are all selling LI product. All the major manufacturers buy from them, all the information in the mainstream mattress industry comes from LI to begin with. Its not surprising to me in the least that so many people are on board with it in North America. |
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My research finds little practical difference between blended and 100% natural Latex foam rubber. Synthetic (not blended yet) Latex foam rubber is less dense/weighs less, is a little less elastic/less conforming, is more consistent in cell structure and particle size, stiffens with age/resists impressions better (100% natural softens with age), is easier to work with/process, has a lower compression modulus (does not get as firm as fast), and and is less expensive. These differences are small in the cured Latex foam... 100% natural is slightly more springy or buoyant while synthetic is slightly more pressure relieving/allows for slightly more sinking in. Most people would not feel the difference between the two side-by-side unless perhaps comparing deep layers. Blended Latex foam rubber blends the characteristics of synthetic and 100% natural Latex to produce a more durable, less expensive Latex foam rubber with a wider, more consistent firmness range. This improved durability is negligible in the higher ILD range but is more noticeable in the lower/softer ILD range, which sees more wear in the comfort layer. Choose 100% natural Latex foam rubber if you value a more natural product and are willing to accept its higher price and possibly lower durability; and if you can feel and prefer its greater elasticity and compression modulus. Choose blended Latex foam rubber if you value greater material consistency, a wider firmness range, a lower price, and possibly higher durability, particularly in the softer firmness range/comfort layer; and if you can feel and prefer its pressure relief. There is little difference in feel or performance between blended and 100% natural Latex foam rubber, which was introduced for the natural product market. The subjective differences are likely to be masked by the typical variations in raw materials, manufacturing processes, and product density and ILD rating, GK |
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budgy wrote: Its likely unreasonabe for me to ask, but in that video you just posted that was a 50 year old natural dunlop mattress. I just think it is ridiculous for companies (and misleading) like LI to claim that their blended talalay latex is TWICE as durable as the mattress you saw in that video. I have blended LI latex pillows that after one year are already showing major signs of oxidization and breakdown. And raw rubber samples that are kept in our showroom that get exposed to UV the blended ones get dry and crumbly in a few months. Our natural rubber samples have never yet gotten to that point of degradation. I realize that my sampling size compared to the whole industry is small, but it seems to be repeatable and confirmable.
When we look at other latex manufacturers around the globe like Latex Co Germany, Radium, COCO-MAT (Europeans), and Latex Green, Coco Latex, (Asians). They all claim the complete opposite that LI does. They are the oddity in claiming that blended latex is superior. Some European suppliers add in a small amount of SBR to help with the consistency of the product because they are far from the source. Think about all the companies you see here talking about how amazing blended talalay is, they are all selling LI product. All the major manufacturers buy from them, all the information in the mainstream mattress industry comes from LI to begin with. Its not surprising to me in the least that so many people are on board with it in North America.
I don't think anyone is saying how much more amazing a blended product is vs a natural product. I think what LI is doing is covering their bases based on whatever internal research has shown their blended to last a bit longer vs. 100% natural. It's not miss leading, it's what they feel their product can with stand. I am sure both blended and natural will break down at some point and in a few cases some quicker than others. (Like in your in-store examples.) That video was just something that I found in doing my on-line research for my bed and who know who/what/where that came from with respect to quality and make. What companies give a full non-prorated 20 year warranty on 100% natural latex? I am sure they exist, I am just not aware of them. I went and looked around and even some of the companies you mentioned above only offer 10 years before they get into pro-rating your purchase. A lot of companies offer 20 year warranties, but if you look closer, they are often pro-rated after 10. PureLatexBliss went straight for the 10 and 20 year (not-prorated) on 100% natural and blended with only a 3/4 inch sag needed to get a new mattress. That's pretty good in my book. I was looking at I am still in agreement with GKDesigns in that if you can afford/want 100% natural, it's going to be a great product. But so is blended and for the majority of us who are not in this business, I doubt we can tell the difference between the two. Below really sums it up well from GKDesigns.
Choose 100% natural Latex foam rubber if you value a more natural product and are willing to accept its higher price and possibly lower durability; and if you can feel and prefer its greater elasticity and compression modulus. Choose blended Latex foam rubber if you value greater material consistency, a wider firmness range, a lower price, and possibly higher durability, particularly in the softer firmness range/comfort layer; and if you can feel and prefer its pressure relief.a cheers corban
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| Consider that PLB mattresses have very little in the way of quiliting and are pretty much stretch covers. All the other brands you see promoting all natural product are going to use thicker layers of wool/cotton, etc on the surface of the bed. This is why they would be silly to offer a warranty that covers only a 3/4 sag. |