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I'm sure many of you on this forum can relate-
My memory foam over poly-foam mattress I bought at least 18 years ago from BSleep is now worn out and my wife and I began a quest to find the perfect mattress for us. We loved the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme and the similar iComfort Revolution mattresses and even bought one. But at that point we hadn't researched memory foam enough, and ended up canceling the order the next day, before delivery. In my many hours of research, I discovered that a pure latex mattress is the way to go. Besides the potential health issues of tempur material, after years of sleeping on it (OK- a clone) we grew tired of waiting for the foam to readjust whenever we turned at night, the heat, the smell, etc. Then we found out about Pure Latex Bliss and tried one of their beds, and like it very much ("Passion" which is the same as "Heavenly" according to PLB). Then I found that Latex International makes their latex, and in fact now owns the company. That lead to the direction of the DIY model, starting with a small Savvy Rest dealer 45 minutes from here. Well, we were impressed with the versatility of that bed as well as the quality of the cover. We both seemed to like the F/M/S configuration, esp. with a 2" Talalay topper. But not the price. Then, I found Sleep EZ and talked several times to Sean there, who was most helpful. His prices are much better, and he can provide exactly the same latex. Then I found greenmattressfactory, who seems to offer 100% natural, with each core wrapped in organic cotton for about $100 less. But in researching that company (who isn't a member of the BBB) I read some negative things about their history, appearing under different names, not paying suppiers, etc. I have no way of proving whether any of these accusations are true or not, and as helpful as this forum is, there is scant information about that company and/or any of its sister companies. They just bought Page Quilting in Johnstown, PA, and is no longer affiliated with another quilting company in Ohio. The company and it's sister companies are all based in an office in a small town in Maine. The person I spoke with there (at long last- they woudln't answer or return emails) told me that if I called the other company, I would still speak to him (!) The information he gave me about trying to find a BBB report didn't pan out- can't seem to find any of the related companies through the BBB. So, nice as it would have been to get the same latex for even less with a longer trial period, I'm afraid to go that route. Sleep EZ has been around since the 1930s and is family run, so I do trust them, esp. after reading so many glowing reports on this website. Would consider Flobed and Savvy Rest as well if they were cheaper, or even OMF if they used all latex. Where I'm confused is by the mirriad of options available for a DIY- style bed. I'm really afraid to do this through Foambymail, because I don't believe they will be as understanding if I want to exchange a piece. Yes, they are much cheaper, but if I made a lot of swaps, they soon would be just as expensive. Perhaps I don't yet trust my insticts to go with F/M/S (9 inches). I've read that it's also good to have 6" of firm topped with 2" of soft (which is kind of what I have on my bed now, although all old and non-latex). I have a Flex-a-Bed adjustable foundation, and just replaced the foam in it to bring it up to specs of a brand new one- $64 per side. The new foam is not as thick, but is a denser material. Sean told me not to waste my money on latex for that, since it is only really there to protect the mattress from the plywood, hinges, and bolts in the movable base. Well, the new foam is much firmer than the original foam, which was breaking down. Now my current bed feels much firmer. This adds to my confusion, as it seems that even that layer, 8 inches away, has an effect. So, I'm feeling a little like I'm entering "paralysis by analysis" in choosing my next bed. I love the idea of custom sides, but don't like what I've read here about feeling the gap between the pieces. Perhaps if my wife and I both want a 19 or 20 Talalay top layer and could go with a one-piece king, that would not be a problem; but I don't know. I like the idea of 100% natural latex, but have read things that strongly suggest LI's blended is better. I like in theory a Dunlop bottom layer, but have read here that a Talalay layer with the same number would provide just as good a support. I know that I'm not alone on this forum.... I just don't want to psych myself into constantly trying every possible combination in order to create the "perfect" sleep experience. For one thing, I'm afraid I'd wake up many times a night so that I could take notes on the feel and experience of each combination! Why don't local mattress companies just carry a variety of latex products so that one can enter this market without the need to go nuts?! I feel like an quasi-expert on all aspects of the Latex industry, but don't feel I have enough information without experience to make the "right" choice of mattress. Any suggestions are welcome... This message was modified May 6, 2012 by asotuba
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asotuba wrote: Thanks, GK. Your "notes" section from an earlier post is very informative. You make the point that "with experience, it's possible to get it right the first time." Well, I suppose that's theoretically possible and certainly desireable. I'd love to do that, but am feeling overwhelmed at the moment with all the options. GK- Do you know if one can actually feel the difference between a Dunlop and Talalay firm or extra firm when on the bottom layer? I know the blended Talalay is lighter weight (man- I read about one king mattress that weighs in at 170 pounds!) but does it support as well as the Dunlop for that layer? If I could figure that out, at least I woudn't have to fret about trying both, perhaps saving one potential swap. Thanks. Option 3 implies that the DIY can rely on the mattress shop for their experience. And you can also analyze the commercial builds by FloBeds and PLB. I have no experience with Dunlop. But my impression is that it can vary in density top-to-bottom, and generally tend to be more dense than Talalay. Both may be useful core layer characteristics. ILD for ILD, both Dunlop and Talalay 'should' be the same in a core layer, but they may get you there with slightly different behaviors... which are probably not noticeable beneath the comfort layer. Dunlop may be heavier and cheaper and inclined to degrade sooner due to its cellular inconsistency. But I would not worry about wear life with any properly manufactured Latex foam rubber. 100% natural is said to get softer with age. Blended is said to get stiffer with age. That's a curious contradiction for what are suppose to be molecular equivalent polymers. Your choice of Latex manufacturer and/or source can preclude any decision between Dunlop and Talalay. If you go US-made LI, its going to be Talalay... which has other attributes to recommend it. GK This message was modified May 6, 2012 by GKDesigns
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Thanks for your reply! BTW- Have you already built your bed? Did you use split pieces or solid, esp. on the top layer? If split, have you noticed any of the separation and "valley" feel one or two have written about on this forum when you turn a certain way?
Thanks for providing more clarity on the Dunlop/Talalay issue. It IS certainly curious that one would get softer with age and the other gets firmer. Hopefully, when that happens, all one may have to replace is the top layer. I like the idea of buying American manufactured pieces if possible, and Sean for one agrees with you that the blended latex is the best of both worlds. I avoid any non-natural products, but given the certifications, etc. that this product has garnered even with some synthetic, I'll likely go that route. It has to be MUCH, much more healthy than sleeping on memory foam for 8 hours at a time.
BTW- On the LI website there are several other types of latex that they make, but I haven't heard of anyone using them: Newform and Celsion in particular. These sound like interesting products.
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asotuba wrote: Thanks for your reply!
BTW- Have you already built your bed? Did you use split pieces or solid, esp. on the top layer? If split, have you noticed any of the separation and "valley" feel one or two have written about on this forum when you turn a certain way?
Thanks for providing more clarity on the Dunlop/Talalay issue. It IS certainly curious that one would get softer with age and the other gets firmer. Hopefully, when that happens, all one may have to replace is the top layer. I like the idea of buying American manufactured pieces if possible, and Sean for one agrees with you that the blended latex is the best of both worlds. I avoid any non-natural products, but given the certifications, etc. that this product has garnered even with some synthetic, I'll likely go that route. It has to be MUCH, much more healthy than sleeping on memory foam for 8 hours at a time.
BTW- On the LI website there are several other types of latex that they make, but I haven't heard of anyone using them: Newform and Celsion in particular. These sound like interesting products.
I have my 3 layer mattress via option 3. No splits, so no valley. I think you would notice the split in a top layer, but the comfort layer is least necessary to split, so you could keep it intact over split core layers. My aging comment was in reference to 100% natural vs. blended, not Dunlop vs. Talalay, although the processes may also relate to a minor difference in aging... the denser Dunlop product wearing sooner? I suspect that the other niche LI products are to round out their portfolio for mattress manufacturers putting Latex over innersprings. Newform? is memory foam?... perhaps they put pinholes in it to improve ventilation. Celsion sounds interesting but I was told it only amounts to a degree or so of temperature differential, so maybe not worth it... certainly not worth it to the DIY if it can only be sourced at a premium price... and it seems the Latex mattress shops don't mess with it. GK |
| Buy a tallalay latex bed. Celsion latex is a wonderful temperature regulating latex. I would recommend buying a all latex bed. Some mattresses will have latex on top of a poly core. The retailer can tell you its a all foam latex mattress, Pay attention. I am retailer in canada. I am not selling you a bed so I am going to give you my un biased opinion. natural latex is not very good because of its imperfections. Usually will not come with a warrenty. 90 percent of all of our employees sleep on a latex mattresses. Usually made by a company that sells beds in the US but does not sell latex mattresses in the US. I am not handy but would NEVER build my own bed. |