Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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This is just a rant. Feel free not to read it, but those of you who are just starting to search for a mattress may find it educational. You may as well go into this knowing what to expect. Okay, even though I KNEW in advance that mattress sales people tend to be jerks and idiots, my latest excursions into mattress stores, and calling mattress stores and companies on the phone, has led me to blow off this steam... First of all, let me acknowledge that of course there ARE SOME GREAT mattress sales people and manufacturers out there. Unfortunately, though, they seem to be few and far between. If you are a great mattress person who knows his product and sells a quality product and has his customers' welfare at heart, I applaud you and wish you the best! I wish I could have found one in my location. If anyone finds one, you may want to post it here, just for proof that I am not lying when I say there actually are some good ones. So here's a little summary of the bull cr*p I've encountered the last week. Stop 1: A Serta store near where I live. I figured I'd find out if they had a cheap mattress with good springs. I knew the mattress itself would be cra*ola but I am only interested in the springs, which I will take all the cheap foam away from and insert my own HR and other higher quality foams. So I walk in choose a random mattress and say to the one saleman: "Do you know what kind of springs this has in it?" The answer was "No." "Well, do you have a spec sheet or something so you might be able to tell me how many coils are in it or what gauge they are?" "No." Not, "No, sir, I'm sorry I don't have that info but let me see what I can find out for you. If you leave your phone number I'll call you after I try to find out." Not "No, I don't know and the manager does not allow us to give out that top secret information!" No. Just "No". I said "Okay, thanks" and walked out. Wrote a scathing review of that store on a local businesses review site. Stop 2: Next door to them was a boutique furniture store. I didn't expect to find anything I'd want in there but walked in and asked. A guy who seemed to be the manager helped me and right away I saw that they had Englander and I was happy because I had once slept on an Englander that I really liked and I had learned at that time that their springs were high quality 12.5 gauge steel in the model I liked. But that was years ago. I immediately asked the guy about the gauge of the springs but he did not know. I asked the coil count and he didn't know but he said he'd look it up. He came back and told me it had a 420 coil count for the Queen but he didn't know the gauge of the coil or any other info. The mattress was marked $399 but when I asked for the price he immediately told me $300. I asked if I could get free delivery since I'm only 1 mile away. He said no, the prices quoted were the best he could do. I took his card and went out to find out what gauge the springs are. I figured a simple call to Englander could provide that answer. Yeah, right... So I went home and first I did a google to see if I could find something called a Malibu Firm at another store perhaps with the coil info listed. (though foam content might change from store to store, the springs inside should remain the same). But I could not find that info on the net. One site did say that the Twin has 216 coils but that same one said their model only had 396 springs in the Queen (instead of the 420 I was told) so I tended to disbelieve all of it. I went to the Englander web site and found NO info on the springs or foam in their beds. So I found their 800# and called. When I got ahold of them the woman there said they did not have that information (???!!!) but she did give me a number at the local Englander factory to call. I called there and finally got a guy with a thick accent who did not listen to my questions and kept spouting off info that I did not ask him and did not need to know. Finally I got my question through his thick skull and he said he did not know that information. I thanked him and hung up. Called Englander back but this time they did not answer. They have not answered now for 4 days. Their phone is always on answering machine and once I left a message and my number and they've never answered me back. What kind of way is this to run a business??? My question is, if any of you reading this are now or have been in the mattress business: WHAT is so dang dififcult about telling a customer what is inside a mattress? At LEAST the coil type and count and gauge, if not the turns, etc.? Why is this info so difficult to get from either a retailer OR the corporate office???? Okay. So, determined to succeed, I went back to the net. I found a couple of local stores that sell Englander. I called one and again, they acted like I must be from Mars to ask a question like what kind of springs it has in it. And no, they had no specs available on it. One said he'd call me back but he never did. I called another store and by surprise he said yes, Englander is his specialty and he could tell me that it had 420 coils in the Queen but he was not sure of the gauge of the coils. BUT he told me his price would be $229 for the mattress, that is $71 cheaper than the "Best price" the first guy had quoted me! So I said I'd definitely buy it IF the spings were as I thought, 12.5 gauge. He said he'd call me back. I told him (this was last Friday) that I wanted to get the bed asap because my back was killing me. He said he was off for the weekend and he knew Englander would not get back to him before Monday but if I called early Monday someone at the store (he would not be there til Tue) would find out and get back to me. I got up earlier than usual to call only to find out they don't open until "around" noon. Yes, they actually said that on their phone message: "Around noon". I left a message explaining I really wanted to buy a bed TODAY and so if they could get me the specs I would buy TODAY because I need the bed asap. Okay... So I waited patiently, to give them a chance to hear the message and make the call to their Englander wizard who knew this mysterious information about the springs. I finally got tired of waiting, around 2pm and called back. A woman answered and said she had not listened to the messages. [???!!! WHAT??!] I explained that I had left a message early this morning because the salesman Friday had told me that if I called back EARLY on Monday they might be able to get the info for me and get the bed delivered with their Tue. delivery. This woman explained that this was not true, that they'd have to have ordered it by Friday to get it delivered by Tue. But she said she'd call and see what she could find out and get back to me asap. Since I could now not receive the bed until Friday at the latest I put it on the backburner and waited for a call. She nor the original guy ever called. Here is is Wed. and I thought I'd better call them to try and get the bed by Friday. I called and the original guy I had spoken with last Friday told me that he had not called me back because "the guy" (as if there's only ONE in all of Englander who knows this deep dark "eyes only" top secret information) is out of the country and won't be back until the end of this week. I said, "Well, I really need the mattress by this Friday if at all possible so I now will have to call Englander again myself to try to light a fire under someone there and get the answer. I called Englander 3 more times. No answers, just machine. I left my message again. Note that I have also written Englander two emails, beginning last Friday, with no replies. [WHY do companies give email addresses if they don't check their messages and reply in a timely manner??? Maybe I AM from Mars, because I don't get the way people do business these days!] I went back to the web and tried to find another store that carries the Englander Malibu Firm. I found one in Nevada. I hate to jerk people around but I had to pretend I was going to buy it there and ask for the info. The guy said he did not know but would call me back. I said, No, that's fine, I'll call you back. When? He said half an hour. I called back in half an hour and he told me that the coils were 12.5 gauge Bonnell coils with a count of 420 in the Queen. No further information. I thanked him and hung up. Called my local mattress store with the good price and told the guy I found out the info I needed and now wanted to order. He said he could order today but now not sure if they'd have it by Friday. Maybe, maybe not! Cr*p! If I'd known that I'd have called yesterday. I didn't feel like yelling at the guy - he seemed nice enough - but why the heck had he not called and told me yesterday what the score was so I could have done all this yesterday and been guaranteed delivery on Friday! It seems very very difficult for people these days to make phone calls. Guess they're too busy texting their friends and surfing the net, to actually make a return call to inform a customer that they were unable to get the info he needed. Or who knows what the problem is? All I know is, more and more, businesses don't answer phones and don't return phone calls and don't reply to emails! Arrrgggghhh! So finally I made my order and either Friday or Tuesday I'll be getting the Englander springs. [Wasn't there a song?"Englander springs like a pendulum do..." Roger Miller? ] Sorry. Bad pun. I'm half out of my mind... But this begs the question: What kind of people are in the mattress industry and why? Is "mattress sales" the kind of job - like customer service phone answering - that any idiot can get, and so they do? And then are those same idiots promoted to work at the Corporate offices? Or what IS the explanation as to why so many mattress sales people are unhelpful, unknowlegeable, irresponsible, lying or misinformed, unreliable half-wits who don't care about the clients who walk in or call??? Personally, I think I would be a great mattress salesman because I already know how they are made, I've made them myself, I've tried most brands, and know what matters in mattresses. The problem is, who would I work for? I've yet to find any company I can believe in who makes beds with springs (I would feel less than sincere about recommending beds without springs - such as flobeds - even though they're a great company - because to me, springs have proven their value after trying beds with and without them.) If I knew of a store that sold beds with quality mattresses on good springs, I would like to work for them and I'd be good at it because: a) I would not jerk customers around, lie to them, or treat them like dirt b) I would know everything about the beds I sold, from the foams to the springs to the covers c) I would actually believe in the product I sold, not just try to make a sale of any old thing to meet my sales requirements I have a feeling that no one would hire me as a mattress salesman because of my commitment to integrity and customer service. I have half a mind to go to a local mattress company and apply for a job just so I can interview for it and explain that I could never sell there because they do not meet my prerequisites of selling quality products and treating the customer with respect.  |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
| Englander probably buys there innersprings from Leggett & Platt or Hickory(Spiller). You may want to call them and ask about the types of springs. I also do not know if they still made a 12 1/2 ga. but the spring manufactures used to in a 312 bonnell and a 368 offset |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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budgy wrote: i agree that doesn't quite make sense...it would have to be polyfoam, and my guess is based on the weight of the materials which is why the % could be so high (not a ton of volume but a denser stronger foam on the perimeter. plus the alcoholic in me knows the difference between how % is measured in the states vs canada, alcoholic % on american liquor is usually based on the weight of the alcohol which is why they still have the 'proof' (purity based on volume) labelling on most spirits too. I am assuming that the law labels for mattresses might be done in a similar fashion. |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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weewillywinky wrote:
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Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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All manufacturers list their content of a mattress slightly differently. Sealy has been using another type of foam for the foam encasement for a long time, maybe Englander is using something else than polyfoam now as well.. :-/ |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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sleepdepot wrote: All manufacturers list their content of a mattress slightly differently. Sealy has been using another type of foam for the foam encasement for a long time, maybe Englander is using something else than polyfoam now as well.. :-/ Okay. Two points remain unanswered: 1) the label doesn't relate the composition/component of the vast majority of materials (i.e., "61'%") listed (which, presumably, must be synthetic, a poly-type material because "natural" materials like latex cost more, right?) 2) doesn't the labeling law expressly require that the composition of the materials are listed? What good does it do to tell you 61% of the mattress is "foam encasement" without telling you what kind of foam it is, particulary in this case where it presumptively makes up 61% (over half) of the materials used? |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
| That is true Sealy used (on their offset coils) some kind of polyethylene or polystyrene type of foam....but its still a synthetic polymer, not unlike the stuff used in hockey helmets for padding. If its a pocket coil (most common spring to foam encase) its usually just a simple 3" thick layer of polyurethane that runs the perimeter. In Kanuckistan (Canada), the label will just list the ingredients without %. So it would just read very typically for say a normal cookie cutter pillowtop bed with lots of 'features' . Polyurethane Foam, Polyester Fibres, Reclaimed Fibres, Latex foam, Silk, Wool. The fabric content has to be listed on a seperate label and is usually more detailed typically it would just read "Outer Covering, 100% Polyester", or maybe "Outer Covering, 71% Polyester, 17 % Polypropylene, 8% Rayon, 4% Cashmere" for a typical company trying to sell cashmere in a fabric. |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
| Hi Jim - You may want to look at Original Mattress Factory. They have mattresses with 12.5 gauge springs. They are very upfront about what's in their mattresses, and have a website with all the info. In their stores they have cut outs of what's inside each one. The 12.5 gauge springs were too firm for my taste, but I imagine they are very long lasting. |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Susan123 wrote: Hi Jim - You may want to look at Original Mattress Factory. They have mattresses with 12.5 gauge springs. They are very upfront about what's in their mattresses, and have a website with all the info. In their stores they have cut outs of what's inside each one. The 12.5 gauge springs were too firm for my taste, but I imagine they are very long lasting. I am quite sure the Englander springs I have were 12.5 gauge. Yes some companies do use 12.5 gauge springs though nowadays here in 2011 most companies are using pocket coils from 14-15 gauge. I am actually very interested in trying some of the new pocket coils by Simmons. I'm not sure they're any better than they were when I hated the mattress I bought from them - and since threw out - many years ago. But really pocket coils seem to be a good way to go, and no one is making an affordable pocket coil any better than Simmons as far as I know. At least they've been at it the longest and I assume they kinda sorta know what they are doing. All the Simmons now have foam around the edges (all the new ones that is; their discontinued Classic line still has higher thicker/stronger springs around the edge instead) to kind of keep the springs from migrating outward as I've seen some do. Most mattresses except the very cheapest now have a very hard foam around the edges. This is a very dense foam, not designed to sleep on but to sit on and it's for people who like to sit on their bed when putting on shoes etc. I suggest that you NEVER sit on your mattress except on the foot of it. Simmons uses more springs per area than S&F do. (This is quoted as density and some less than knowledgeable sales people will quote that figure to you as "count" but it's not a "count" - as in total springs used per mattress - it's density.) Perhaps the main thing about getting a quality pocket coil mattress is that it has not been mistreated when shipping it from the factory to your home. If these type mattresses are bent around corners it may damage them or if they are tossed around too much it may damage them. If you get one that is handled well from the factory to your home you stand a much better chance of it lasting. Never jump or walk on it, don't even allow small kids to do that. Never bend it around corners or move it violently in any way or the springs may migrate causing problems. |