Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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This is just a rant. Feel free not to read it, but those of you who are just starting to search for a mattress may find it educational. You may as well go into this knowing what to expect. Okay, even though I KNEW in advance that mattress sales people tend to be jerks and idiots, my latest excursions into mattress stores, and calling mattress stores and companies on the phone, has led me to blow off this steam... First of all, let me acknowledge that of course there ARE SOME GREAT mattress sales people and manufacturers out there. Unfortunately, though, they seem to be few and far between. If you are a great mattress person who knows his product and sells a quality product and has his customers' welfare at heart, I applaud you and wish you the best! I wish I could have found one in my location. If anyone finds one, you may want to post it here, just for proof that I am not lying when I say there actually are some good ones. So here's a little summary of the bull cr*p I've encountered the last week. Stop 1: A Serta store near where I live. I figured I'd find out if they had a cheap mattress with good springs. I knew the mattress itself would be cra*ola but I am only interested in the springs, which I will take all the cheap foam away from and insert my own HR and other higher quality foams. So I walk in choose a random mattress and say to the one saleman: "Do you know what kind of springs this has in it?" The answer was "No." "Well, do you have a spec sheet or something so you might be able to tell me how many coils are in it or what gauge they are?" "No." Not, "No, sir, I'm sorry I don't have that info but let me see what I can find out for you. If you leave your phone number I'll call you after I try to find out." Not "No, I don't know and the manager does not allow us to give out that top secret information!" No. Just "No". I said "Okay, thanks" and walked out. Wrote a scathing review of that store on a local businesses review site. Stop 2: Next door to them was a boutique furniture store. I didn't expect to find anything I'd want in there but walked in and asked. A guy who seemed to be the manager helped me and right away I saw that they had Englander and I was happy because I had once slept on an Englander that I really liked and I had learned at that time that their springs were high quality 12.5 gauge steel in the model I liked. But that was years ago. I immediately asked the guy about the gauge of the springs but he did not know. I asked the coil count and he didn't know but he said he'd look it up. He came back and told me it had a 420 coil count for the Queen but he didn't know the gauge of the coil or any other info. The mattress was marked $399 but when I asked for the price he immediately told me $300. I asked if I could get free delivery since I'm only 1 mile away. He said no, the prices quoted were the best he could do. I took his card and went out to find out what gauge the springs are. I figured a simple call to Englander could provide that answer. Yeah, right... So I went home and first I did a google to see if I could find something called a Malibu Firm at another store perhaps with the coil info listed. (though foam content might change from store to store, the springs inside should remain the same). But I could not find that info on the net. One site did say that the Twin has 216 coils but that same one said their model only had 396 springs in the Queen (instead of the 420 I was told) so I tended to disbelieve all of it. I went to the Englander web site and found NO info on the springs or foam in their beds. So I found their 800# and called. When I got ahold of them the woman there said they did not have that information (???!!!) but she did give me a number at the local Englander factory to call. I called there and finally got a guy with a thick accent who did not listen to my questions and kept spouting off info that I did not ask him and did not need to know. Finally I got my question through his thick skull and he said he did not know that information. I thanked him and hung up. Called Englander back but this time they did not answer. They have not answered now for 4 days. Their phone is always on answering machine and once I left a message and my number and they've never answered me back. What kind of way is this to run a business??? My question is, if any of you reading this are now or have been in the mattress business: WHAT is so dang dififcult about telling a customer what is inside a mattress? At LEAST the coil type and count and gauge, if not the turns, etc.? Why is this info so difficult to get from either a retailer OR the corporate office???? Okay. So, determined to succeed, I went back to the net. I found a couple of local stores that sell Englander. I called one and again, they acted like I must be from Mars to ask a question like what kind of springs it has in it. And no, they had no specs available on it. One said he'd call me back but he never did. I called another store and by surprise he said yes, Englander is his specialty and he could tell me that it had 420 coils in the Queen but he was not sure of the gauge of the coils. BUT he told me his price would be $229 for the mattress, that is $71 cheaper than the "Best price" the first guy had quoted me! So I said I'd definitely buy it IF the spings were as I thought, 12.5 gauge. He said he'd call me back. I told him (this was last Friday) that I wanted to get the bed asap because my back was killing me. He said he was off for the weekend and he knew Englander would not get back to him before Monday but if I called early Monday someone at the store (he would not be there til Tue) would find out and get back to me. I got up earlier than usual to call only to find out they don't open until "around" noon. Yes, they actually said that on their phone message: "Around noon". I left a message explaining I really wanted to buy a bed TODAY and so if they could get me the specs I would buy TODAY because I need the bed asap. Okay... So I waited patiently, to give them a chance to hear the message and make the call to their Englander wizard who knew this mysterious information about the springs. I finally got tired of waiting, around 2pm and called back. A woman answered and said she had not listened to the messages. [???!!! WHAT??!] I explained that I had left a message early this morning because the salesman Friday had told me that if I called back EARLY on Monday they might be able to get the info for me and get the bed delivered with their Tue. delivery. This woman explained that this was not true, that they'd have to have ordered it by Friday to get it delivered by Tue. But she said she'd call and see what she could find out and get back to me asap. Since I could now not receive the bed until Friday at the latest I put it on the backburner and waited for a call. She nor the original guy ever called. Here is is Wed. and I thought I'd better call them to try and get the bed by Friday. I called and the original guy I had spoken with last Friday told me that he had not called me back because "the guy" (as if there's only ONE in all of Englander who knows this deep dark "eyes only" top secret information) is out of the country and won't be back until the end of this week. I said, "Well, I really need the mattress by this Friday if at all possible so I now will have to call Englander again myself to try to light a fire under someone there and get the answer. I called Englander 3 more times. No answers, just machine. I left my message again. Note that I have also written Englander two emails, beginning last Friday, with no replies. [WHY do companies give email addresses if they don't check their messages and reply in a timely manner??? Maybe I AM from Mars, because I don't get the way people do business these days!] I went back to the web and tried to find another store that carries the Englander Malibu Firm. I found one in Nevada. I hate to jerk people around but I had to pretend I was going to buy it there and ask for the info. The guy said he did not know but would call me back. I said, No, that's fine, I'll call you back. When? He said half an hour. I called back in half an hour and he told me that the coils were 12.5 gauge Bonnell coils with a count of 420 in the Queen. No further information. I thanked him and hung up. Called my local mattress store with the good price and told the guy I found out the info I needed and now wanted to order. He said he could order today but now not sure if they'd have it by Friday. Maybe, maybe not! Cr*p! If I'd known that I'd have called yesterday. I didn't feel like yelling at the guy - he seemed nice enough - but why the heck had he not called and told me yesterday what the score was so I could have done all this yesterday and been guaranteed delivery on Friday! It seems very very difficult for people these days to make phone calls. Guess they're too busy texting their friends and surfing the net, to actually make a return call to inform a customer that they were unable to get the info he needed. Or who knows what the problem is? All I know is, more and more, businesses don't answer phones and don't return phone calls and don't reply to emails! Arrrgggghhh! So finally I made my order and either Friday or Tuesday I'll be getting the Englander springs. [Wasn't there a song?"Englander springs like a pendulum do..." Roger Miller? ] Sorry. Bad pun. I'm half out of my mind... But this begs the question: What kind of people are in the mattress industry and why? Is "mattress sales" the kind of job - like customer service phone answering - that any idiot can get, and so they do? And then are those same idiots promoted to work at the Corporate offices? Or what IS the explanation as to why so many mattress sales people are unhelpful, unknowlegeable, irresponsible, lying or misinformed, unreliable half-wits who don't care about the clients who walk in or call??? Personally, I think I would be a great mattress salesman because I already know how they are made, I've made them myself, I've tried most brands, and know what matters in mattresses. The problem is, who would I work for? I've yet to find any company I can believe in who makes beds with springs (I would feel less than sincere about recommending beds without springs - such as flobeds - even though they're a great company - because to me, springs have proven their value after trying beds with and without them.) If I knew of a store that sold beds with quality mattresses on good springs, I would like to work for them and I'd be good at it because: a) I would not jerk customers around, lie to them, or treat them like dirt b) I would know everything about the beds I sold, from the foams to the springs to the covers c) I would actually believe in the product I sold, not just try to make a sale of any old thing to meet my sales requirements I have a feeling that no one would hire me as a mattress salesman because of my commitment to integrity and customer service. I have half a mind to go to a local mattress company and apply for a job just so I can interview for it and explain that I could never sell there because they do not meet my prerequisites of selling quality products and treating the customer with respect.  |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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mattmanu wrote: My concern is how do you know that it has a 12 1/2 ga innerspring? I work in the industry, and I may be wrong but I don't know any spring manufacture making a 12 1/2 ga in any type of unit. From the Wikipedia article on mattresses, "Coils of 14 to 15.5-gauge (1.63 to 1.37 mm) give more easily under pressure, while a 12.5-gauge (1.94 mm) coil, the thickest typically available, feels quite firm." |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Have you checked out Room and Board? They have two showrooms in the LA area and they give a good description of their mattresses on their website. They have some very basic innersprings that are not too expensive. The gauge is 14.5, luraflex coils. Those may be too soft for what you seem to be looking for, but when I checked them out in SF I thought they were pretty firm. I did buy a pocketed coil mattress from them but it didn't work out. They were very good about the return and waived the pickup fee. I was able to contact the factory in Minnesota and they answered my questions promptly by email. Loved your rant. Several years ago I saw an employment ad for McRoskey in San Francisco. The sales job required a college degree and stated one could earn $50-70,000 per year. When I was shopping there, the sales people did not know the techinical information off the top of their heads. I had to call back later so someone could look it up for me. How tough is it? The mattresses are made right in the same building and they have a limited number of models to choose. Not only are they idiots, most of the sales people in that store have a snooty attitude. They act like the mattress is so great that they are doing you a favor by letting you buy one. With the current economy, maybe their attitude has changed. I had a McRoskey on which I did surgery. I suspected that it wouldn't work, but having had no success selling it for a good price, decided to go for it. It has bonnell springs, 14.5 gauge, but when detufted, it lost its integrity and became a hard hammock. I tried lots of different combinations of foams but could never make it right. I don't know if all bonnell springs would react the same way. McRoskey makes their own springs and the mattresses are made to be flexible from top to bottom. The many layers of cotton and polyester tightly tufted keep it together. I still have it. Too bad you aren't in northern California so you could take a look at it. I also have a piece of 9" M-grade foam that I don't need (long story!) I once called a store where I had purchased a mattress several years earlier. I wanted to know exactly what it was comprised of. The sales people did not know and connected me to the factory. I spoke with the owner. It is a small company that makes zippered mattresses. He kept me on the phone a long time lecturing me about how useless it would be to compare his mattresses with others by just considering gauge and coil count. He never would give me the info. I didn't tell him I had one of his creations. He just kept repeating that I needed to come in and try them. Other times when I have asked the technical questions, I've been told not to analyze, just buy whatever feels good. Good luck telling any of us here not to analyze! And yes, I remember that song. Good luck and keep us posted. |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Aw, too bad you didn't get my direct message...I got a wonderful price from Bill, who would bring it to So. Cal for zip, and bring it to one of his accounts closest to you. Oh, well, sounds like you are on your way, finally! What a bunch of CRAP you had to go through. Just makes my blood boil. Good rant, BTW. I fully understand that I CAN'T TAKE ONE MORE SECOND OF THIS MATTRESS feeling. Been there done that. Kait |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Hi, I kinda thought my rant would resonate with some of you. Kait, I did NOT get your later messages. Just now read them. But, having remembered how much I liked that Englander back at the hotel 8 years ago, with the 12.5 gauge springs, I was kind of set on trying their springs as the basis for my next experiment(s) and I liked the price a lot! (Of course I fully realize I could regret this decision and end up wishing I'd have bought from Bill!) . Hope I didn't make a bad choice... Anyway... Got my Englander delivered today. The funny thing is, I never met the salesman nor ever set foot in their store, I just bought it based on wanting 12.5 gauge Englander springs and his price which was 20% lower than the other guy's best price. Told the guy at the store what I wanted, over the phone, paid him over the phone and got it delivered 2 days later. More layers of obfuscation, (perhaps deceit?) : The tag on my new Englander mattress says: Manufactured by Medi-Pedic Bedding 2638 Yates Ave. Commerce, CA 90040 8/2009 Model ECCMFTMO [?] All new material consisting of: 61% Foam Encased 27% Polyurethane Foam 8% Fire Barrier Fiber 3% Indulator Fiber Pad Okay.. First of all, nowhere does it say ANYthing about "Englander"!  (However, there was a seperate tag on the other side of the bed that said "Englander" and "Malibu" (the model I bought: Malibu Firm), and their attached warranty. But, someone as cynical as me about the mattress industry has to wonder: Couldn't a sleazy store just buy a cheap bed made by some generic company and then attach an Englander label and warranty brochure to the side?I did a google on "Medi-Pedic Bedding, Commerce, CA" but only found business listings that show their phone number and address, no web site. So I called them: "Hello... Are you a mattress distributor or manufacturer?" The guy hesitated as if he were answering in front of the Senate Subcommittee on Cement Overcoats... "We're a manufacturer..." he said after a long pause. "And do you manufacture Englander beds?" (Guess maybe I did sound like I was heading a Senate subcommittee, in retrospect. Wish I was!) "Yes". I called unprepared and let it go at that and said thank you. I SHOULD have asked him what springs are in it, etc., but I'm almost positive it was the same guy I spoke to the other day when I asked about the springs and he had no clue so I think that was why I did not pursue any further questioning. Also, 2 of the other Englander retailers did tell me their beds were made in Commerce, so I figure this indeed is the manufacturer for Englander. I just find it odd that they don't at least put Englander's name on the mattress anywhere! So, I called the mattress store: "Thank you very much for putting a rush on it and getting my mattress delivered today instead of next Tuesday... By the way, the tag on the mattress says "Medi-Pedic Bedding" - what's the deal with that?" "It's Medi-Pedic/Englander. They manufacture it for Englander." "Okay, thanks again." Now as to the label, above: What the heck does that mean?? 61% foam encased? and 27% pu foam? I mean, I understand what the 2nd part means but not the first part. What does "foam encased" mean? I mean, to me it sounds like a description: that it is foam, encased by whatever the outer cover is. But what does it mean when it says "61% foam encased"? Isn't it actually 100% encased? Or do they mean that 61% is foam and the rest is springs? I just don't get what that means. Maybe I"m being dumb. Can someone explain this to me? My wife wants me to try the bed for awhile before I operate on it. I told her, "Okay, but as soon as it begins to not be comfortable I am getting out my exacto knife! There is NO WAY a mattress filled with pu foam (and "foam encased"?) is going to be comfortable or good for my aching back!" I told her! Her sister and husband just bought a pillow-top mattress that they say is killing them after only one week, so I would think my wife would by now understand that there is just no way this mattress is going to work for me, as is. She's an eternal optimist, I guess. Not me... especially not when it comes to mattresses. I just hope the springs will work for the foundation of my foam experimentation. If not, I'm out $240 because no way I can return it after cutting it open... unless I find a bicycle or something in there!   Wish me luck! This message was modified Aug 28, 2009 by jimsocal
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Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Jim, The reason your bed was made by a manufacturer other than the name under which you bought it is because you went for a mattress with the cheap Bonnell coil instead of a major manufacturer's major coil system. Most manufacturers will outsource those lower end products and only produce their actual coils themselves. This is the difference between a bed that says Sealy and a bed that says Sealy Posturpedic. While there may not be an excuse for the lack of customer service you received in your search for a bed, the lack of knowledge doesn't surprise me. Remember, when you make a mattress purchase you're not only paying for the steel, foams, and upholstery, you're also paying for personal training, spec materials, and vendor support. When you're shopping the rock bottom lowend (which a $400 queen mattress is) one of the first things the vendor cuts is retail support. It's highly unlikely the manufacturer provided any spec or training support for the cheap mattress you were trying to buy. Vendor reps are expensive. Training material is expensive. These are some of the first things cut in "budget" beds. Like so many other things in the world you get what you pay for. -Alex |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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So Jimsocal - your label says "61% foam encased"? That really is totally baffling - it's not only confusing to figure out what "foam encased" means, but why 61/%? I mean, if say for example, 2/3 of the mattress was wrapped (ie. "encased"?) with foam, how could anyhing like that equal 61%? I'm at a complete loss to figure out what the heck that is supposed to mean. What good is a label if you can't make heads or tails out of what it means? Any industry experts out there willing and able to interpret these hieroglyphics for us plebians? Riddle riddle - whoever can answer the riddle gets a prize! :>) |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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Alex, I'm a little confused by your response and would like a little clarification, if I might. I found a reference showing that Medi-Pedic is Englander's licensed manufacturer for southern california. See: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-17358129.html This little article snip makes it sound like Medi-Pedic is not manufacturing just the lower end of the product lines. Are you saying that there is a difference in actual manufacturing processes or just that the retail services and support are lacking for lower-end products? |
Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
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The label lists the content of the mattress not including the steel springs. So if you add up all the 61% 27% 3% and 8% it gets very close to 100% :-) (99%). Meaning out of all the "padding" in your mattress 61% is the foam encasement that goes all around the bed and 27% is poly foam etc etc. I hope that helps!
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Re: Dare I say that most mattress sales people are less than good at their job? New buyers: what to expect in your mattress quest
| Thanks, Sleepdepot! Your decipherment makes a lot sense and you get the prize! One more question about that, though - wouldn't the foam encasement BE poly foam? What other kind of foam could it possibly be, making up 61% of the total foam used (I'm guessing the percentage is measured by volume, rather than weight)? |