Mattress Forum

Just as important for you will be to have a firm foundation, so don't neglect that side of the equation.

I do think if you remove the convoluted topper you might feel some extra room in the mattress cover, but nothing to be too concerned about.  Any reason you want to remove it without first trying it?

I recently posted a comment in the thread entitled: "latex-getting it right' so won't repeat that info here. I loved working with Flobeds, but yes, their "firmness adviser" was way too soft for  me (and I like a soft bed, and sleep on my side). They even recommended I go firmer that the firmness adviser (which recommended a combination of soft and medium layers only). But even what they recommended for me( S-M-F) was too soft. See my other post for details of what worked for me (though i"m not a stomach sleeper; if I were, I would want a firmer bed)

Personally  I like having an X-firm layer on the bottom, although firm is also okay for me. At my weight (130 max) and 5'5 /2" I'm apparently not even suppose to feel the bottom layer, but I can definitely tell a difference in how the bed feels overall. Also I think the combination depends on what foundation you have it on (I have closely spaced firm wooden slats).  When I tried with my old flexible european slats, the bed was way too soft and bouncy for me (though they worked well with my old very, very and thin firm dunlop mattress).  May also depend on whether you get all-natural or blended talalay. Some folks repost that the blended feels firmer. Also depends on how sensitive you are and what physical needs you have.  My husband, for example, can sleep on anything, and any combination of the Flobed (can also sleep in any position)--lucky guy.

As to the convoluted topper, I don't think it makes a big difference to the cover whether it's in or out. I's stuffed pretty tightly with it in. Also if you don't like the convoluted feel, you can turn it upside down. And finally, I think Flobeds would work with you to replace it with something else if you really didn't like it. At least they said they would do that when I got my bed last year.

Sandman's advice to get layers you can try many combinations with is great (and get slightly different combinations for each side). That's one reason why I didn't have to do a lot of exchanges like some folks. I could try most any combination with what I initially got. The great thing about Flobeds is they will work with you til you get it right, or refund the whole thing if you decided talalay latex isn't for you. That's really the main reason I chose them over other companies (even though I would have preferred having dunlop as an option too), and they came through with excellent service.

These have been our experiences with the cores.

(1) we started with M/F/XF as recommended. way, way too soft for both of us. or rather, it was incredibly uncomfortable and i wasn't sure why. i would try every position and could not be able to get comfortable all night; something always felt twisted and contorted.

(2) flipped the layers to be XF/F/M (that is, firmer on top). this was much more comfortable. but then we had the problem of terrible motion transfer; the bed was very jiggly.

(3) we swapped out the M for a SF (costs extra money) and set it up as F/XF/SF (that is, softer on top again). once again, this was too soft. i could not get comfortable and got  both back and neck pain. my girlfriend is also now getting a ton of back pain and says her side is too soft too, even though she is a side sleeper.

(4) I rotated my side to be XF / F / SF. this has been better but there seems to be no real reason to have the F at all, it is too soft to be any good. We are now doing another core exchange to make it XF / XF / SF on both sides.

I spoke to Dewey and he says "most" people don't need it this firm. He also says he uses M/F/XF. Maybe we are doing something wrong but every time I make it firmer I feel better. I actually think that for the convoluted topper to be effective for giving a "plush" feel, you need a pretty firm layer on under it. Otherwise you just sink in past it, and its as if its not there at all. With something very firm under the topper you can tell that you are being supported but are in immediate contact with something plushy and nice-feeling.

Early on we also tried without the topper; I think M/F/XF It was pretty awful. You could i think always take it out, but you are paying hundreds of dollars for it and it'd be silly to pay for it and not to use it. If you don't want it you should se eif you can get them to knock off the itemized cost, which can be found on their website.

We are now gravitating toward having a bed that is very firm with the soft topper to make it plushier. In mattress parlance i think this is "plush firm." This was my inclination from the beginning but the flobeds folks advised against it and said this was not what most people do, and I figured they had more data than I did. Maybe we are just heading in this direction because I always thought it was the right one. Anyway, we are both tired, and our backs hurt.

One final thing. These talatech layers are all pretty soft feeling.  We felt the S/M/F dunlop layers of a saavy rest in person bed and they all felt *much* firmer than these, at least when you squeeze them in your hand. We would have gone with that product if a full return was possible. Maybe how it feels in your hand is misleading; I would think that the ILD ratings should allow apples-to-apples comparison. But again, the equivalently rated firmnesses of dunlop and talatech feel very different in your hand.

I suppose its also possible that flobeds caters to a customer base that needs an unusually soft bed relative to the general population given age, injuries, what have you. I really don't know what could account for a systematic difference between their advice and the experience of people on the board that they are too soft. They are, after all, losing money and time on core exchanges and have every incentive to make good recommendations on the firmness.

If you find something that works with flobeds, please let me know! Also, if you find a pillow that works well with your flobeds configuration please also let me know that. Still haven't found one that "goes" with it and doesn't hurt my neck.

Having said that, there are some people who just don't "take" to the feel of a latex bed, is it possible you're one of these people?

I would trust your instincts and go with what you think would work.  Give it a good try and if it doesn't, get a refund. That's the great thing about Flobeds, and the main reason I chose them over Saavyrest or others. Even though I now like a fairly soft bed because I need it for pressure point and nerve problems, I also need really good lower back support. I went a lot firmer than recommended, and I did the unusual thing of putting a firm right under the first soft layer. You probably have read some other posts here of people who went very firm, even if they were lightweight.

I've slept on Dunlop beds (an original Sears one s a child, decades ago, another one as  a young adult, and then a very thin, very firm one for years before I got the Flobed last year.)  I agree you can't just compare ILDs.  Dunlop and Talalay have a different feeling altogether. And to be honest, as much as I like Flobeds as a company, and I am fine with my bed, I still would probably choose Dunlop, all other things being equal...but they aren't in many ways (not only return policies but also in terms of smells and processing, and since I have a lot of allergies, I was more comfortable with IL all-natural talalay; some of the dunlop I tired had smells that bothered me). Also the quality of dunlop varies with different manufacturers.

I did lie on 2 dunlop beds in stores before choosing Folbeds.  One was a Saavyrest. The other I can't remember though I really liked the bed (but they didn't even allow exchanges! At least Saavy does, but I wasn't willing to go with either company without the possibility of returning it if it didn't work.. they may well have gotten my business if they had). btw, as kimberly said, the foundation can make  a big difference, at least it did for me. I had ot change form flexible European slats (which were good with my super firm dunlop matress) to firm wooden slats.

Putting softer layers under firmer layers didn't work at all  for me at all--way too bouncy, although I know this is sometimes recommended. I like a very firm on the bottom and then adjust form there depending on body needs and preferences. Sending back a core (or more) is pretty easy. Much easier than rearranging on the bed. I dealt mostly with Dave at Flobeds and he was excellent.

As for pillows, I bought the shredded natural talalay from Flobeds when I got my mattress. I took out at least 1/3 of the foam (the nice thing about their pillows is they are adjustable). Although I've always preferred down, the latex pillow supports my neck better when lying on my side, but the down is better when I'm on my back as it crushes flatter. I've also foung that the softer the mattress, the lower and softer the pillow I need. When I had a super hard bed, I needed a higher pillow when lying on my side as my shoulder didn't go down into the mattress as much. 

Good luck!

linda where did you find Saavyrest to try in retail stores? Thanks.