Mattress Forum

Update on the situation:  JCPenneys has reluctantly agreed (after me talking to 4 different people) to credit the Simmons New Hope Bed back for other furniture from their store that will total the bed amount minus the 10% restocking fee and a $50 delivery charge.  The bed originally totalled nearly $2000; so we will have to spend approx $1750 at JCP's furniture store and they will deliver it and take the bed and box springs at that time.  This is not ideal but is better than the alternative of getting another bed that probably would not work out for us.  We wanted to get a new dining room table and chairs anyway so this is a good opportunity to do that plus a few other items.  Our current innerspring bed is approx 17yrs old - we bought a foam topper at Costco about 5 or 6 yrs ago for it but it is time to replace it...

I have been reading as much as I can on here. I have read the stories of many people who have bought too soft, too hard, too cheap, etc. and am trying my best to keep my mind open and not have any preconcieved ideas.  I have been leaning towards building my own at foambymail as the other prices I'm seeing seem to be way higher than the latex itself.  We live in Oregon and I have tried to find some latex around here to compare things to but it is very difficult to find.  We have an IKEA in Portland and I also located (though Qwestdex) a small local latex mattress maker in Portland who has been making latex mattresses for 40 years.  It's about an hour from us - we went to see him today.  Thought we would also go to IKEA and look at their products while we were there.

The latex guy has a small storefront that is both his showroom and shop in the light industrial section of SE Portland not far from downtown.  Very friendly guy, wanted to know our story and what we knew of latex.  After relating this to him he gave us a very good 10 minute synopsis of the history of latex beds and how the rubber companies here used to make most of the beds and how it has evolved up to today. He also went through the difference in the manufacturing between Dunlop and Talalay and the feel difference in the two products.  He had two mattresses set up as demos: both were 6" Dunlop cores; one was extra firm (he said it would be around a 50 ILD) and the other he called a medium with approx a 30 ILD.  On top of these he had a 2" Talalay topper in a cover he could move from bed to bed to soften things up. In the finished product the two pieces would be laminated together.  He did not seem to like the Talalay as the core piece - but does like it for the top.  So at first we laid on just the 6" medium Dunlop and you could tell it was too firm and then when he put the 2" topper on it was just right for both of us, even though my wife likes a softer mattress.  He explained something else in another way than I've heard it before - that men are pretty much straight up and down and can usually take a firm mattress but women have curves and need the softer bed to support the hip area well. He said his experience in making these for years tells him that small to normal sized people (or couples) will do well with the 6" Dunlop (30ILD) core and the 2" Talalay (20ILD) top.  For larger people, the firmer Dunlop core is used with the 2" Talalay topper.  They need the firmer mattress as they will compress the medium core too easily and bottom out.  Was very confident that this would work for most people unless they have special needs. i expressed my concern from what I have read on here; that people seem to want to fine tune things by being able to change layers out as they find things are too soft or hard.  He said he understood and could split the cores if needed but he thought by looking at us and our size and how we laid on the bed that the configuration I've described above would be just right.  He also had a tip for a stomach sleeper if the bed is too soft to actually place a heavy towel folded up in thirds under the mattress to counteract the depression.  I might try that on my current one until I get JCP to take it back.  The finished product is all put together in a nice thinner cover and sewn up into a finished mattress.  He also sells a slatted foundation with a cover for these that is similar to what I see on the SleepEz catalog.  He quoted $1700 for a king, with foundation delivered and setup. He delivers and sets up himself. This seems like a pretty good price. 

After looking at these, we went to IKEA and looked at their products.  To be honest, I was not impressed. Although they have a 25 year warranty, the king size like we wanted would be about $1000 but it really needs a topper on it and that would be another $100 to $200, then add for the slatted foundation $350 and you're nearly up to the local mattress makers price.  And that would be an easy choice. The local guy's product is hands down better. There was not enough info available on their latex either as to what level of quality it really was.  They did have a sample of each one with a cutaway though.  I don't think I would buy a mattress there for myself, but did like some of their setups for a spare bedroom.

If I compare the local mattress maker to foambymail, the local guy is $1700 (eastern king) delivered and all setup, mattress and foundation.

Foambymail is looking like $589 for the mattress, we would probably go with the firm instead of the medium because from what I'm reading it would be more like a medium Dunlop in actual firmness. Then $184 for a 2" 20ILD topper and $20 extra for the terry cloth cover.  Add to this $295 for the slatted foundation from SleepEz and you're up to  $1088 or about $600 less than the local guy.  So this is a substantial difference in price, but I do not honestly know if it is worth it to "save" the money.  Its almost like that $600 in savings could be chewed up in hours and hours of time, which might not be a savings at all.  Especially since I can't see the Foambymail product ahead of time to really know how it feels. But I haven't decided yet. Want some feedback on this.

I really like this forum - I have learned so much from reading these posts..... it reminds me of when I almost bought a timeshare several years ago and then thought... I better do some research on the internet first.  I found a superb user group called timeshare user group (TUG) and was able to learn many of the cardinal sins that I didn't have to commit ahead of time.  Long story short, I bought two weeks dirt cheap and have learned how to get the maximum use and trading power out of them...... and it is all because of what I learned on this excellent user group.  

I would appreciate it if any of the oldtimers/regulars could comment on what I written here and tell me what I might be missing or things I need to look for.

I agree that 3" of 20 ILD would be too soft. I'd be in a similar position as I am now.

We did try the bed out at the local mattress maker that had 6" of 30 ILD Dunlop topped with a 2" 20 ILD Talalay and found that to be kind of in the middle, not too firm but with a comfort layer that didn't seem to be too much. However laying on something for 10 or 15 minutes is not sleeping on it.

What I'm really wondering about is how soft the Foambymail latex is compared to the 6" Dunlop 30 ILD that I tried....

Foambymail lists these :

6" Talalay Latex Foam (w/ Cover)
Medium (26-32 ILD)
King Mattress (76" x 80")

6" Talalay Latex Foam (w/ Cover)
Firm (33-38 ILD)
King Mattress (76" x 80")

 If someone has either of these, I would like to know how they feel they compare to a 6" Dunlop core....

I agree with Jim's comments. Skip the lamination. I can't see any reason to glue the layers together. It makes it impossible to change out the topper if need be. I also prefer the zippered mattress cover concept. This gives you maximum flexibility to swap or replace layers. I'd ask this mattress guy if he can do a zippered cover. He seems pretty knowledgeable but he still makes mattresses the old fashioned way. (Glue em together and stitch it all up.)

Most importantly though, find out what his return or exchange policy is. You already know what a pain it is to buy a mattress you can't sleep comfortably on. Lying on a mattress in a store doesn't really tell you whether your body will be properly supported through an entire night. Otherwise, the setup you describe sounds good to me, although I'm not sure I would like even 2" of 20 ILD Talalay on my bed. But that's just me.

The mattress guy was adamant that he only stiched these things up and laughed at the the zipper idea. I do agree that it would be much better to have them loose in a decent cover, but do not think he will do it.  Also I would need to get a Dr's prescription for a chemical free bed.  My wife has allergies and asked her allergist at Kaiser for this and he would not do it.  Maybe he thinks he would be liable if the mattress caught on fire....We could probably find someone to do this but not sure I want to go this way now.

I was toying with the idea of getting separate cores for the bottom layer; 6" of medium latex and 6" of firm latex in XL twins but see that they would be a little bigger than my existing bedframe so it won't work. Unless they actually sell the exact 38" X 80" 1/2 king size pieces, which I do not see on their site.  So what we will do is more than likely buy one Eastern King 6" Firm latex and then get 2 separate 2" toppers - one soft and one medium in the XL twin size.  If I had to trim an inch off of these I could probably do it but I wouldn't want to attempt that on a 6" piece.  Then we'd get their King size terry cloth zippered cover.  I'm still not entirely sure I should go with the Firm 6" core instead of the Medium core.  Too hard I really do not want, especially for my wife, but me too.  The fear would be the firm would be like a rock and we'd have to exchange it.  That would be a real pain.  The other fear is the medium would not be enough support and we'd have to exchange it. Me - male 5' 8" - 150lbs - stomach mainly some side, wife - 5'3" - 140 - side sleeper. She likes the soft pillowtop stuff, I don't.

I had a few questions on a covered slatted foundation. I found one on sleepez's site but then the next time I looked it was not there... Then it was back. They are quoting $295 for a king. I will have to call them and see if they still have them.  I also tracked a older thread on here that pointed to CPS Wood Products but the email I sent inquiring about it bounced back as a bad site. Are there any other options?  I do need something that is at least 6 or 8 inches high to fit on my bedframe and would like it to be slatted, as the latex needs to breathe.  I see a few at IKEA but don't really think they would work and the one that is closest is really tall and meant to store things underneath.

Hey Chase,

Good for you.  When did you order your mattress? What are you doing for a foundation? This is another issue that is coming up for me that is of prime importance, especially since I already have a bedframe.  It seems the best way to really do this process is to choose the mattress first and then work with the foundation and bedframe but who would even think about those kinds of things ahead of time unless....

 I keep going back to that same config that you ordered after all I've seen and felt. Medium core and soft topper. I do not like a rock hard bed, I just don't want one that is way too soft. There is a foam store, A-1 Foam, which BTW is the only one I could find in Portland, way out on Stark that had a nice piece of 6" 29 ILD Talalay that we tried out and it felt more than firm enough for both of us.  They also had a 2" topper and together they felt good. But of course this was just a 10 minute try out in the store.  Then the mattress guy, Mulligan Mattress had what he called a 6" medium Dunlop core with a 2" topper and this felt about the same and also did not seem too hard or too soft. Again, this was just a 10 to 15 minute try out and not the full 6 to 8 hours that you would get by sleeping on it. 

We went to JCP yesterday and picked out the replacement furniture that equalled the original bed's cost and it will come the day after Thanksgiving, then this current bed will be picked up, so I need to make a decision soon or we'll be sleeping on air mattresses..... I will have to say after all is said and done, JCP is not a bad place for furniture. 

My latest thinking is:

2 - XL Twin 6" cores of medium Latex from FBM, topped with 1 - 2" soft latex topper.  I will stuff this into one of their terrycloth covers, I would think the 78" width on this would fit in the cover OK. This will be a touch more money but will have two added advantages; it will be easier to move around, and will allow me to exchange one or both if they are not firm enough.

Foundation - I need 5 1/2" - 6" of something not solid, but firm and supportive, to get the mattress level up to the sides of the bedrails that I have, then the mattress will be able to hang over just a touch on each side (1/2") and be OK. I think I can get one of these from a local mattress store which are selling the short foundations for the extremely tall mattresses we see in every store now.  I don't think sheets will be a problem with a finished product of 78" X 80".

It's funny, the more I read on here, the more unsure I am of the config I should need. But I have to learn to read between the lines also and know that we don't really have a major sleep problem and that there are in reality probably many combinations of springs, foams, foundations, etc that would work for us.

Bill

Since you don't have any back problems that you are aware of, just go ahead and order what felt best to you.  If you have any lingering doubts go back to one of the stores and take a longer lie down. Nothing is quite like actually spending a whole night on a mattress but after lying there for a half hour or so you start to feel any lack of support that might exist for you. A good rule of thumb is the fidget factor. If you find yourself moving around a lot trying to get comfortable it's the wrong mattress for you. If you lie down and feel like you could just fall asleep right then and there, that means you body is relaxed and comfortable.

You can usually find foundations in 2,4, 6 and 8" heights depending on how high you need to elevate the mattress. Discount mattress stores are your best bet for price and availability. Basically they are all pretty much boxes with fabric covered cardboard over the top. Why spend any more than you have to? I bought my foundation this way and the sales guy took me back into the warehouse and let me pick out the one I wanted. Then they delivered it to my house within two hours. The price was $89 for a full. The one that matched my mattress would have been $200. And since both pieces would never see the light of day after they were covered with mattress pads, sheets and bed skirts, the fact that they don't exactly match is really irrelevant.

Don't make yourself insane. You've obviously thought about it enought. Just do it!